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Capitol Hill Riots

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,396
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • cutzcutz Posts: 10,067
    see the video of Security doting her eye?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,396
    cutz said:
    see the video of Security doting her eye?
    No, I’ve seen enough violence in my lifetime.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • cutzcutz Posts: 10,067
    cutz said:
    see the video of Security doting her eye?
    No, I’ve seen enough violence in my lifetime.
    I hear ya!
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,350
    cutz said:

    Makes me so happy that kids can escape the indoctrination of hatred from their parents.


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,663
    wow. general charles flynn, brother of mike flynn, was on the call when the pentagon was requested to release the national guard. the army had previously denied that flynn was on that call. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,862
    wow. general charles flynn, brother of mike flynn, was on the call when the pentagon was requested to release the national guard. the army had previously denied that flynn was on that call. 
    Yeah.  It's a problem that the army denied it.  It's not a problem that he was there.  It's central to his job. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,862
    An interesting update on some arrests, bail denials and the like.  https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/capitol-rioter-inauguration-461233

    This is like news candy at this point, reading about these idiots in jail. 
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,401
    This WaPo article is nuts... particularly the part about the messages he was receiving about the locations of lawmakers. 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy-oath-keeper-arrest-capitol-riot/2021/01/19/fb84877a-5a4f-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

    Self-styled militia members planned on storming the U.S. Capitol days in advance of Jan. 6 attack, court documents say

    Video shows alleged Oath Keepers at Capitol attack
    Authorities cited this video evidence against apparent Oath Keepers Thomas Edward Caldwell, Jessica Watkins and Donovan Crowl in the attack on the Capitol. (TWP)
    By 
    Jan. 19, 2021 at 8:28 p.m. EST

    Self-styled militia members from Virginia, Ohio and other states made plans to storm the U.S. Capitol days in advance of the Jan. 6 attack, and then communicated in real time as they breached the building on opposite sides and talked about hunting for lawmakers, according to court documents filed Tuesday.

    While authorities have charged more than 100 individuals in the riot, details in the new allegations against three U.S. military veterans offer a disturbing look at what they allegedly said to one another before, during and after the attack — statements that indicate a degree of preparation and determination to rush deep into the halls and tunnels of Congress to make “citizens’ arrests” of elected officials.

    U.S. authorities charged an apparent leader of the Oath Keepers extremist group, Thomas Edward Caldwell, 66, of Berryville, Va., in the attack, alleging that the Navy veteran helped organize a ring of dozens who coordinated their movements as they “stormed the castle” to disrupt the confirmation of President-elect Joe Biden’s electoral college victory.


    Members of the Oath Keepers an extremist group were among supporters of President Trump at the US Capitol on Jan 6
    Members of the Oath Keepers, an extremist group, were among supporters of President Trump at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. (Jim Bourg/Reuters)

    “We have about 30-40 of us. We are sticking together and sticking to the plan,” co-defendant Jessica Watkins, 38, an Army veteran, said while the breach was underway, according to court documents.

    AD

    “You are executing citizen’s arrest. Arrest this assembly, we have probable cause for acts of treason, election fraud,” a man replied, according to audio recordings of communications between Watkins and others during the incursion.

    “We are in the main dome right now. We are rocking it. They are throwing grenades, they are fricking shooting people with paint balls. But we are in here,” a woman believed to be Watkins said, according to court documents.

    A man then responds, “Get it, Jess,” adding, “This is . . . everything we f---ing trained for!”

    The FBI said it recovered the exchange from Zello, a push-to-talk, two-way radio phone app.

    FBI charging papers against Caldwell, Watkins and a third person, former U.S. Marine Donovan Crowl, 50, allege that Caldwell and others coordinated in advance to disrupt Congress, scouted for lodging and recruited Oath Keepers members from North Carolina and like-minded groups from the Shenandoah Valley. The group claims thousands of members who assert the right to defy government orders they deem improper. The plotters both anticipated violence and continued to act in concert after the break-in, investigators alleged in court documents. FBI papers also say that Caldwell suggested a similar event at the local level after the attack, saying in a message: “Lets storm the capitol in Ohio. Tell me when!”

    AD

    The three are charged with five federal counts of conspiracy against the United States; obstructing an official government proceeding; impeding or injuring government officers; and destroying U.S. property, entering restricted grounds and disorderly conduct at the Capitol.

    Attempts to reach attorneys for Caldwell, Watkins and Crowl have been unsuccessful. No one immediately responded to messages left at numbers connected to Caldwell.


    Jessica Watkins a self-described militia member faces federal charges in connection to the assault on the US Capitol earlier this month
    Jessica Watkins, a self-described militia member, faces federal charges in connection to the assault on the U.S. Capitol earlier this month. (Montgomery County Jail/AP)

    Former US Marine Donovan Crowl 50 is among three people charged with five federal counts of conspiracy against the United States
    Former U.S. Marine Donovan Crowl, 50, is among three people charged with five federal counts of conspiracy against the United States. (Montgomery County Jail/AP)

    Watkins, of Woodstock, Ohio, told the Ohio Capital Journal last week that she formed a group known as the Ohio State Regular Militia in 2019 and that it had patrolled 12 protests to “protect people” on both sides. She said she had served a tour in Afghanistan while in the Army. She also said she was a member of the Oath Keepers.

    AD

    “I didn’t commit a crime. I didn’t destroy anything. I didn’t wreck anything,” Watkins said to the Journal, adding that the riot was a peaceful protest that turned violent.

    Crowl’s mother, Teresa Rowe, said she was appalled to see pictures of him in the Capitol. She said he had become radicalized after leaving the Marine Corps.

    “I wish I could tell people what happened to him, but I don’t know,” Rowe said.

    The arrests this weekend of several people with alleged ties to far-right extremist groups, including the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters, suggest that the riot was not an entirely impulsive outburst of violence but an event instigated or exploited by organized groups. Hours of video posted on social media and pored over by investigators have focused on individuals in military-style gear moving together.

    “This is the first step toward identifying and understanding that there was some type of concerted conspiracy here,” said one senior official with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia, which is leading the investigation.

    AD

    “Whether everyone else just happened to be there and got caught up in the moment, or if this is just the tip of the iceberg, how much this will grow at this point I can’t tell you, but we are continuing to investigate aggressively,” according to the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a pending investigation.

    In charging papers, the FBI said that during the Capitol riot, Caldwell received Facebook messages from unspecified senders updating him of the location of lawmakers. When he posted a one-word message, “Inside,” he received exhortations and directions describing tunnels, doors and hallways, the FBI said.

    Some messages, according to the FBI, included, “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down,” and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.” Another message read: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas,” the FBI added.

    AD

    Other arrests Tuesday also underscored law enforcement’s concerns about threats to elected leaders, particularly because so many of the participants in the Jan. 6 chaos are still unidentified.

    In New York, a Queens man who worked in the state court system was accused Tuesday of making threats to murder Democratic politicians, including suggesting another attack on the Capitol timed to Biden’s inauguration. The man was not at the riot on Jan. 6 but made threatening remarks about Democratic politicians beforehand that intensified in a video he posted two days later, which was titled “KILL YOUR SENATORS.” In the video, he encourages people to return to the Capitol and take up arms.

    “If anybody has a gun, give it to me, I’ll go there myself and shoot them and kill them,” the man said, according to the FBI.

    In Caldwell’s charging papers, the FBI said that it is reviewing communications between Cald­well “and other known and unknown Oath Keepers members.”

    AD

    An FBI agent in court records said Caldwell helped organize a group of eight to 10 individuals led by Watkins. Members of the group are seen on video wearing helmets and military-style gear, and moving purposefully toward the top of the Capitol steps and leading the move against police lines, court records said.

    A search of Watkins’s home in Ohio found numerous firearms, cellphones, pepper spray, a radio, a bag with a helmet and respirators, paintball guns, pool cues cut down to baton size, and zip/cable ties, as well a camouflage hat and jackets, the FBI said.

    The FBI said without elaboration that it also recovered a document titled “Making Plastic Explosives from Bleach,” redacting the instructions in a photo exhibit.

    AD

    According to a 23-page affidavit, Caldwell in Facebook messages said he scouted lodging for Watkins and others, starting at a Comfort Inn in Ballston, Va., about eight miles from the Capitol, that “would allow us to go hunting at night if we wanted to.”

    In an apparent reference to Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, Caldwell wrote Jan. 1: “I don’t know if Stewie has even gotten out his call to arms, but it’s a little friggin late. This is one we are doing on our own. We will link up with the north carolina crew.”

    Meanwhile, the group was making contingency plans and focused on security, the FBI said. Caldwell said he would probably “do pre-strike on the 5th” and expected a man named Paul “will have the goodies in case things go bad and we need to get heavy.”

    AD

    “Keep eyes on people with Red MAGA hats worn backward. Saw a report that they were going to infiltrate crowd tomorrow,” Crowl was warned Jan. 5 in another Facebook message, as he prepared for what he called an “Oathkeepers op,” court documents said.

    “Thanks Brother, but we are WAY ahead on that. We have infiltrators in Their ranks. We are doing the W.H. in the am and early afternoon, rest up at the Hotel, then headed back out tomorrow night ‘tifa’ hunt’in. We expect good hunting,” Crowl responded, in an apparent reference to antifa counterdemonstrators, the FBI said.

    At some point on the day of the riot, Watkins posted to the social media site Parler a photograph of herself in uniform, writing: “Me before forcing entry into the Capitol Building. #stopthesteal #stormthecapitol #oathkeepers #ohiomilitia,” the FBI said. She added a photo of Crowl in paramilitary gear and an Oath Keepers patch as “one of my guys,” and the pair allegedly took a selfie in video recorded in the Capitol Rotunda, the FBI said.

    Caldwell also posted a message after the riot, court documents said: “Us storming the castle. Please share. . . . I am such an instigator!”

    “Proud boys scuffled with cops and drove them inside to hide. Breached the doors. One guy made it all the way to the house floor, another to Pelosi’s office. A good time,” Caldwell added, according to the FBI.

    In a Jan. 8 message to Crowl, the FBI said Caldwell added, “We stormed the gates of corruption together (although on opposite sides of the building) so between that and our first meeting and getting to know you since I can say we will always be brothers!”

    Jennifer Jenkins contributed to this report.


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,648

    Justice Department, FBI debate not charging some of the Capitol Rioters

    Jan. 23, 2021 at 1:21 p.m. EST

    Federal law enforcement officials are privately debating whether they should decline to charge some of the individuals who stormed the U.S. Capitol this month — a politically loaded proposition but one alert to the practical concern that hundreds of such cases could swamp the local courthouse.

    The internal discussions are in their early stages, and no decisions have been reached about whether to forgo charging some of those who illegally entered the Capitol on Jan. 6, according to multiple people familiar with the discussions.

    Justice Department officials have promised a relentless effort to identify and arrest those who stormed the Capitol that day, but internally there is robust back-and-forth about whether charging them all is the best course of action. That debate comes at a time when officials are keenly sensitive that the credibility of the Justice Department and the FBI are at stake in such decisions, given the apparent security and intelligence failures that preceded the riot, these people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal deliberations.

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.

    The Post obtained hours of video footage, some exclusively, and placed it within a digital 3-D model of the building. (TWP)

    Among those roughly 800 people, FBI agents and prosecutors have so far seen a broad mix of behavior — from people dressed for military battle, moving in formation, to wanton vandalism, to simply going with the crowd into the building.

    Due to the wide variety of behavior, some federal officials have argued internally that those people who are known only to have committed unlawful entry — and were not engaged in violent, threatening or destructive behavior — should not be charged, according to people familiar with the discussions.

    White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Jan. 22 announced the National Security Council will build new capability to focus on domestic extremism. (The Washington Post)

    Other agents and prosecutors have pushed back against that suggestion, arguing that it is important to send a forceful message that the kind of political violence and mayhem on display Jan. 6 needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, so as to discourage similar conduct in the future.

    There are a host of other factors complicating the discussions, many of which center not around the politics of the riot, but the real-world work of investigators and prosecutors, these people said.

    The Justice Department has already charged more than 135 individuals with committing crimes in or around the Capitol building, and many more are expected to be charged in the coming weeks and months. By mid-January, the FBI had already received more than 200,000 tips from the public about the riot, in addition to news footage and police officer testimony.

    The primary objective for authorities is to determine which individuals, if any, planned, orchestrated or directed the violence. To that end, the FBI has already found worrying linkages within such extremist groups as the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters, and is looking to see if those groups coordinated with each other to storm the building, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    Prosecutors have signaled they are looking to bring charges of seditious conspiracy against anyone who planned and carried out violence aimed at the government — a charge that carries a maximum possible prison sentence of 20 years.

    But even as Justice Department officials look to bring those types of cases, they privately acknowledge those more determined and dangerous individuals may have operated within a broader sea of people who rushed through the doors but didn’t do much else, and prosecutors will ultimately have to decide if all of those lesser offenders should be charged.

    Officials insisted they are not under pressure in regards to timing of decisions about how to handle those type of cases. For one thing, investigators are still gathering evidence, and agents could easily turn up additional photos or online postings that show a person they initially believed was harmless had, in fact, encouraged or engaged in other crimes.

    Investigators also expect that some of those charged in the riot will eventually cooperate and provide evidence against others, and that could change their understanding of what certain people said or did that day, these people said.

    Nevertheless, these people said, some in federal law enforcement are concerned that charging people solely with unlawful entry, when they are not known to have committed any other bad acts, could lead to losses if they go to trial.

    “If an old man says all he did was walk in and no one tried to stop him, and he walked out and no one tried to stop him, and that’s all we know about what he did, that’s a case we may not win,” one official said.

    Another official noted most of those arrested so far have no criminal records.

    Meanwhile, defense lawyers for some of those charged are contemplating something akin to a “Trump defense” — that the president or other authority figures gave them permission or invited them to commit an otherwise illegal act.

    “If you think of yourself as a soldier doing the bidding of the commander in chief, you don’t try to hide your actions. You assume you will be held up as a hero by the nation,” criminal defense lawyers Teri Kanefield and Mark Reichel wrote last week.

    Such a defense might not forestall charges but could be effective at trial or sentencing. Trump’s looming impeachment trial in the Senate will also focus further attention on his actions and raise questions about the culpability of followers for the misinformation spread by leaders around bogus election-fraud claims rejected by courts and state voting officials.

    “It’s not a like a bunch of people gathered on their own and decided to do this, it’s not like a mob. It’s people who were asked to come by the president, encouraged to come by the president, and encouraged to do what they did by the president and a number of others,” said one attorney representing defendants charged in the breach who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal strategy.

    Prosecutors have other options. For rioters with no previous criminal records or convictions and whose known behavior inside the Capitol was not violent or destructive, the government could enter into deferred plea agreements, a diversion program akin to pretrial probation in which prosecutors agree to drop charges if a defendant commits no offenses over a certain time period.

    Such a resolution would not result in even a misdemeanor conviction, and has been used before in some cases involving individuals with a history of mental illness who were arrested for jumping the White House fence. Criminal defense attorneys note there may be further distinctions between individuals who may have witnessed illegal activity or otherwise had reason to know they were entering a restricted area, and those for whom prosecutors can’t show such awareness.

    There is also a question over whether charging all of the rioters could swamp the federal court system. In 2019, D.C. federal courts recorded only about 430 criminal cases, and fewer than 300 last year, when the legal system slowed significantly due to the pandemic. Many of those cases, however, had multiple defendants.

    The workload of prosecuting the rioters could be eased if some of the cases were farmed out to other U.S. attorney offices around the country, but so far D.C. prosecutors have shown no interest in doing so. The law generally requires that individuals be prosecuted in the district in which a crime occurred.

    “The crime happened here. Prosecutors and judges can see the crime scene from their office windows. I find it strange anyone would suggest it be done anywhere else,” a person familiar with the investigation said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an internal debate.

    Beyond all the evidence-gathering and charging decisions left to do, federal officials concede there will likely be some number of people who were there that day and are simply never identified, due to some combination of luck, masks or lack of social media posts.

    Carol D. Leonnig contributed to this report.



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,648
    FUCK THAT. ALL OF THEM. CHARGE AND TRY EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,660
    mickeyrat said:
    FUCK THAT. ALL OF THEM. CHARGE AND TRY EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.
    Yep that’s the only way! No one should get a slap on their hands..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,862
    mickeyrat said:
    FUCK THAT. ALL OF THEM. CHARGE AND TRY EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.
    Yep that’s the only way! No one should get a slap on their hands..

    Agreed!

    And let's face it, an argument could be made that these people are going to get off easy.  The maximum penalty is 20 years imprisonment.  In many countries, conspiring to overthrow one's government would carry a much, much more severe punishment. 
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,396
    mickeyrat said:
    FUCK THAT. ALL OF THEM. CHARGE AND TRY EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.
    With at least trespassing and failure to disperse. 200 hours of community service in an underserved DC neighborhood, one year’s probation and a $500 fine seems appropriate for those “just there.”
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,635
    Planning event? Starring the idiot offspring and Tommy Tuberville.

    https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/january-5-meeting-at-trump-international
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,862
    OnWis97 said:
    Planning event? Starring the idiot offspring and Tommy Tuberville.

    https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/january-5-meeting-at-trump-international
    While I don't doubt the culpability of these idiots,  this seems all very circumstantial. 
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 17,444
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Planning event? Starring the idiot offspring and Tommy Tuberville.

    https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/january-5-meeting-at-trump-international
    While I don't doubt the culpability of these idiots,  this seems all very circumstantial. 
    Circumstantial enough to warrant a thorough investigation!
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,862
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,396
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,663
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,396
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,862
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    To think that someone committed suicide because they were part of the 'plot' seems to be the stretch.  
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,001
    mrussel1 said:
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    To think that someone committed suicide because they were part of the 'plot' seems to be the stretch.  

    I have no idea if this particular officer was involved in any "plotting", but given that many people have already lost jobs and have had their names, faces and backgrounds splashed all over the media outlets leading to widespread ridicule for their involvement in the riots, I don't view it as a stretch that the prospect could lead someone to commit suicide. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,663
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    because i'm just not a fan of accusing someone who just committed suicide of treason with nothing but conjecture, that's why. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 20,862
    mrussel1 said:
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    To think that someone committed suicide because they were part of the 'plot' seems to be the stretch.  

    I have no idea if this particular officer was involved in any "plotting", but given that many people have already lost jobs and have had their names, faces and backgrounds splashed all over the media outlets leading to widespread ridicule for their involvement in the riots, I don't view it as a stretch that the prospect could lead someone to commit suicide. 
    But he did not storm the capital, he was a cop there.  I hear what you are saying, and I'm not saying anything is impossible.  But I agree with Hugh that it feels like a stretch and a tad irresponsible in the statement. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,396
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    because i'm just not a fan of accusing someone who just committed suicide of treason with nothing but conjecture, that's why. 
    There's a body of circumstantial evidence that's been reported and an AG stating that there are serious charges of sedition before a grand jury, in the hundreds. Yea, maybe I'll just chalk it up to the fact that a certain number of cops commit suicide every year. And I'm not dismissing that nor making light of it. Hopefully, there will be a full investigation and report, inclusive of those who committed suicide and whether they were involved or not.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,001
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Anyone else think that the cops who killed themselves might have been on the inside facilitating the violent overthrow of congress and knew it was just a matter of time before the FBI came knocking?
    that's a pretty big stretch at this point. 
    Why? It’s been reported that there was coordination amongst the insurrectionists, communications indicate they had a level of knowledge of where to go and how to get there, they were able to flash badges and be allowed in and there’s pictures of them taking selfies with insurrectionists. I’m not sure if you’ve been in the capitol but beyond the public areas, there are a bevy and warren of hidden rooms, corridors and tunnels, some of them 3 stories down and part of the original Capitol (think arched brick and narrow) where the folks who service the cafeterias and conference rooms and such move unseen (catering, furniture movement, mail, auxiliary services, etc.). Many of the stairs, doors, etc aren’t marked. Very easy to get lost in.
    To think that someone committed suicide because they were part of the 'plot' seems to be the stretch.  

    I have no idea if this particular officer was involved in any "plotting", but given that many people have already lost jobs and have had their names, faces and backgrounds splashed all over the media outlets leading to widespread ridicule for their involvement in the riots, I don't view it as a stretch that the prospect could lead someone to commit suicide. 
    But he did not storm the capital, he was a cop there.  I hear what you are saying, and I'm not saying anything is impossible.  But I agree with Hugh that it feels like a stretch and a tad irresponsible in the statement. 

    That's not what you said in the post I was replying to. You said: "To think that someone committed suicide because they were part of the 'plot' seems to be the stretch", and that's what I disagree with - I think it's quite possible that someone would commit suicide because they knew it would be discovered that they were part of the "plot".

    I'm not arguing at all that this officer was. 

    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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