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Capitol Hill Riots

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    200 got inside, broke through the doors down...

    My god man, if someone can find me a better number let me know because I really just want to know, that's all.  Just curious.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    Of all the people to be criticized from Jan 6th, AOC is not in the top 100,000.  
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,823
    mrussel1 said:
    Of all the people to be criticized from Jan 6th, AOC is not in the top 100,000.  
    Wait .... top 100,000?  Hmmmmm.... ;)
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    mrussel1 said:
    Of all the people to be criticized from Jan 6th, AOC is not in the top 100,000.  
    Wait .... top 100,000?  Hmmmmm.... ;)
    New thread?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Of all the people to be criticized from Jan 6th, AOC is not in the top 100,000.  
    Wait .... top 100,000?  Hmmmmm.... ;)
    New thread?
    I retracted from that.  Badly written article.  Thought you saw that?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Of all the people to be criticized from Jan 6th, AOC is not in the top 100,000.  
    Wait .... top 100,000?  Hmmmmm.... ;)
    New thread?
    I retracted from that.  Badly written article.  Thought you saw that?
    I was having trouble following all of the bickering, to be honest.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Of all the people to be criticized from Jan 6th, AOC is not in the top 100,000.  
    Wait .... top 100,000?  Hmmmmm.... ;)
    New thread?
    I retracted from that.  Badly written article.  Thought you saw that?
    I was having trouble following all of the bickering, to be honest.
    I answer anything that I think is directed at me or try to.

    Yes, I read that article wayyyy out of context and it was a knee jerk reaction from me.  I looked up a few other ones and that Fortune article is trash.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 39,682
    edited February 3
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    200 got inside, broke through the doors down...

    My god man, if someone can find me a better number let me know because I really just want to know, that's all.  Just curious.
    Everyone of the people you see in that picture stormed the capitol. Not all of them got inside the actual building, THANK GOD. But everyone of the people you see above is a fucking terrorist traitor who deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. 


    chinese-happy.jpg
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    200 got inside, broke through the doors down...

    My god man, if someone can find me a better number let me know because I really just want to know, that's all.  Just curious.
    Everyone of the people you see in that picture stormed the capitol. Not all of them got inside the actual building, THANK GOD. But everyone of the people you see above is a fucking terrorist traitor who deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. 


    I agree with you and I still want to know how many got inside...  That's all.  I just wanted to know.  Not sure how my question got twisted sideways?

    I swear people look at an angle for things that aren't there.  I seem to get this quite a bit when I ask a question.


  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 11,599
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/doj-capitol-rioters-charges-debate/2021/01/23/3b0cf112-5d97-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    edited February 3
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/doj-capitol-rioters-charges-debate/2021/01/23/3b0cf112-5d97-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.
    I can't wait for the trials and the pleas to start coming through.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/doj-capitol-rioters-charges-debate/2021/01/23/3b0cf112-5d97-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.
    Can you post the article.  I tried to get access and won't let me.
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 17,624
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    200 got inside, broke through the doors down...

    My god man, if someone can find me a better number let me know because I really just want to know, that's all.  Just curious.
    Everyone of the people you see in that picture stormed the capitol. Not all of them got inside the actual building, THANK GOD. But everyone of the people you see above is a fucking terrorist traitor who deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. 


    I agree with you and I still want to know how many got inside...  That's all.  I just wanted to know.  Not sure how my question got twisted sideways?

    I swear people look at an angle for things that aren't there.  I seem to get this quite a bit when I ask a question.


    It's because you're an asshole, Chris. I thought you knew that. :lol:
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,371
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/doj-capitol-rioters-charges-debate/2021/01/23/3b0cf112-5d97-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.
    Can you post the article.  I tried to get access and won't let me.
    Jan. 23, 2021 at 2:21 p.m. AST

    Federal law enforcement officials are privately debating whether they should decline to charge some of the individuals who stormed the U.S. Capitol this month — a politically loaded proposition but one alert to the practical concern that hundreds of such cases could swamp the local courthouse.

    The internal discussions are in their early stages, and no decisions have been reached about whether to forgo charging some of those who illegally entered the Capitol on Jan. 6, according to multiple people familiar with the discussions.

    Justice Department officials have promised a relentless effort to identify and arrest those who stormed the Capitol that day, but internally there is robust back-and-forth about whether charging them all is the best course of action. That debate comes at a time when officials are keenly sensitive that the credibility of the Justice Department and the FBI are at stake in such decisions, given the apparent security and intelligence failures that preceded the riot, these people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal deliberations.

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.

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    41 minutes of fear: A video timeline from inside the Capitol siege
    The Post obtained hours of video footage, some exclusively, and placed it within a digital 3-D model of the building. (TWP)
    AD

    Among those roughly 800 people, FBI agents and prosecutors have so far seen a broad mix of behavior — from people dressed for military battle, moving in formation, to wanton vandalism, to simply going with the crowd into the building.

    Due to the wide variety of behavior, some federal officials have argued internally that those people who are known only to have committed unlawful entry — and were not engaged in violent, threatening or destructive behavior — should not be charged, according to people familiar with the discussions.

    Psaki says administration will take action against ‘domestic violent extremism’ after Capitol riot
    White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Jan. 22 announced the National Security Council will build new capability to focus on domestic extremism. (The Washington Post)

    Other agents and prosecutors have pushed back against that suggestion, arguing that it is important to send a forceful message that the kind of political violence and mayhem on display Jan. 6 needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, so as to discourage similar conduct in the future.

    AD

    There are a host of other factors complicating the discussions, many of which center not around the politics of the riot, but the real-world work of investigators and prosecutors, these people said.

    The Justice Department has already charged more than 135 individuals with committing crimes in or around the Capitol building, and many more are expected to be charged in the coming weeks and months. By mid-January, the FBI had already received more than 200,000 tips from the public about the riot, in addition to news footage and police officer testimony.

    “There is absolute resolve from the Department of Justice to hold all who intentionally engaged in criminal acts at the Capitol accountable,” Justice Department spokesman Marc Raimondi said in an email. “We have consistently made clear that we will follow the facts and evidence and charge individuals accordingly. We remain confident that the U.S. District Court for Washington, DC can appropriately handle the docket related to any resulting charges.”

    AD

    The primary objective for authorities is to determine which individuals, if any, planned, orchestrated or directed the violence. To that end, the FBI has already found worrying linkages within such extremist groups as the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters, and is looking to see if those groups coordinated with each other to storm the building, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    Prosecutors have signaled they are looking to bring charges of seditious conspiracy against anyone who planned and carried out violence aimed at the government — a charge that carries a maximum possible prison sentence of 20 years.

    But even as Justice Department officials look to bring those types of cases, they privately acknowledge those more determined and dangerous individuals may have operated within a broader sea of people who rushed through the doors but didn’t do much else, and prosecutors will ultimately have to decide if all of those lesser offenders should be charged.

    AD

    Officials insisted they are not under pressure in regards to timing of decisions about how to handle those type of cases. For one thing, investigators are still gathering evidence, and agents could easily turn up additional photos or online postings that show a person they initially believed was harmless had, in fact, encouraged or engaged in other crimes.

    Investigators also expect that some of those charged in the riot will eventually cooperate and provide evidence against others, and that could change their understanding of what certain people said or did that day, these people said.

    Nevertheless, these people said, some in federal law enforcement are concerned that charging people solely with unlawful entry, when they are not known to have committed any other bad acts, could lead to losses if they go to trial.

    AD

    “If an old man says all he did was walk in and no one tried to stop him, and he walked out and no one tried to stop him, and that’s all we know about what he did, that’s a case we may not win,” one official said.

    Another official noted most of those arrested so far have no criminal records.

    Meanwhile, defense lawyers for some of those charged are contemplating something akin to a “Trump defense” — that the president or other authority figures gave them permission or invited them to commit an otherwise illegal act.

    “If you think of yourself as a soldier doing the bidding of the commander in chief, you don’t try to hide your actions. You assume you will be held up as a hero by the nation,” criminal defense lawyers Teri Kanefield and Mark Reichel wrote last week.

    Such a defense might not forestall charges but could be effective at trial or sentencing. Trump’s looming impeachment trial in the Senate will also focus further attention on his actions and raise questions about the culpability of followers for the misinformation spread by leaders around bogus election-fraud claims rejected by courts and state voting officials.

    AD

    “It’s not a like a bunch of people gathered on their own and decided to do this, it’s not like a mob. It’s people who were asked to come by the president, encouraged to come by the president, and encouraged to do what they did by the president and a number of others,” said one attorney representing defendants charged in the breach who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal strategy.

    Prosecutors have other options. For rioters with no previous criminal records or convictions and whose known behavior inside the Capitol was not violent or destructive, the government could enter into deferred plea agreements, a diversion program akin to pretrial probation in which prosecutors agree to drop charges if a defendant commits no offenses over a certain time period.

    Such a resolution would not result in even a misdemeanor conviction, and has been used before in some cases involving individuals with a history of mental illness who were arrested for jumping the White House fence. Criminal defense attorneys note there may be further distinctions between individuals who may have witnessed illegal activity or otherwise had reason to know they were entering a restricted area, and those for whom prosecutors can’t show such awareness.

    AD

    There is also a question over whether charging all of the rioters could swamp the federal court system. In 2019, D.C. federal courts recorded only about 430 criminal cases, and fewer than 300 last year, when the legal system slowed significantly due to the pandemic. Many of those cases, however, had multiple defendants.

    The workload of prosecuting the rioters could be eased if some of the cases were farmed out to other U.S. attorney offices around the country, but so far D.C. prosecutors have shown no interest in doing so. The law generally requires that individuals be prosecuted in the district in which a crime occurred.

    “The crime happened here. Prosecutors and judges can see the crime scene from their office windows. I find it strange anyone would suggest it be done anywhere else,” a person familiar with the investigation said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an internal debate.

    Beyond all the evidence-gathering and charging decisions left to do, federal officials concede there will likely be some number of people who were there that day and are simply never identified, due to some combination of luck, masks or lack of social media posts.

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    200 got inside, broke through the doors down...

    My god man, if someone can find me a better number let me know because I really just want to know, that's all.  Just curious.
    Everyone of the people you see in that picture stormed the capitol. Not all of them got inside the actual building, THANK GOD. But everyone of the people you see above is a fucking terrorist traitor who deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. 


    I agree with you and I still want to know how many got inside...  That's all.  I just wanted to know.  Not sure how my question got twisted sideways?

    I swear people look at an angle for things that aren't there.  I seem to get this quite a bit when I ask a question.


    It's because you're an asshole, Chris. I thought you knew that. :lol:
    lol, THAT I do know!
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,633
    Funny how some get so offended when not even quoted, eh? OMG, an opinion I don't agree with! The horror!
    I quoted you because of the after comment.  If you didn't direct that first part at me then I'll move on.

    I'm not offended at all, you're still a tool.
    Grasping. 
    So did you you or didn't you direct your tirade at me?
    Tirade? Because I think you made a lame attempt at minimizing something by asking "how many?" What if it were one person and the result was the same? Say, one person with an assault rifle and a few hundred rounds of armor piercing ammo? Almost a month later and we're debating "how many got inside." Like it makes a fucking difference. Tirade. Tool. You seem stuck on Ts today, Tempo. Tirade. Tool. Tirading Tool. Tooling Tirader. Tirading Tool Tooling Tiraded. FFS. I'll respectfully ask, do you watch the news? Did you not see the countless hours of footage from inside the capitol? Seems to me to be more than 200. But again, what fucking difference does it make?
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,633
    What about the ones that climbed through windows? Do they count?
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    What about the ones that climbed through windows? Do they count?
    They were invited in
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    Funny how some get so offended when not even quoted, eh? OMG, an opinion I don't agree with! The horror!
    I quoted you because of the after comment.  If you didn't direct that first part at me then I'll move on.

    I'm not offended at all, you're still a tool.
    Grasping. 
    So did you you or didn't you direct your tirade at me?
    Tirade? Because I think you made a lame attempt at minimizing something by asking "how many?" What if it were one person and the result was the same? Say, one person with an assault rifle and a few hundred rounds of armor piercing ammo? Almost a month later and we're debating "how many got inside." Like it makes a fucking difference. Tirade. Tool. You seem stuck on Ts today, Tempo. Tirade. Tool. Tirading Tool. Tooling Tirader. Tirading Tool Tooling Tiraded. FFS. I'll respectfully ask, do you watch the news? Did you not see the countless hours of footage from inside the capitol? Seems to me to be more than 200. But again, what fucking difference does it make?
    So I'll ask again.  Was your tirade directed at me or will you deflect a simple answer again?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,633
    Funny how some get so offended when not even quoted, eh? OMG, an opinion I don't agree with! The horror!
    I quoted you because of the after comment.  If you didn't direct that first part at me then I'll move on.

    I'm not offended at all, you're still a tool.
    Grasping. 
    So did you you or didn't you direct your tirade at me?
    Tirade? Because I think you made a lame attempt at minimizing something by asking "how many?" What if it were one person and the result was the same? Say, one person with an assault rifle and a few hundred rounds of armor piercing ammo? Almost a month later and we're debating "how many got inside." Like it makes a fucking difference. Tirade. Tool. You seem stuck on Ts today, Tempo. Tirade. Tool. Tirading Tool. Tooling Tirader. Tirading Tool Tooling Tiraded. FFS. I'll respectfully ask, do you watch the news? Did you not see the countless hours of footage from inside the capitol? Seems to me to be more than 200. But again, what fucking difference does it make?
    So I'll ask again.  Was your tirade directed at me or will you deflect a simple answer again?
    I didn't direct a "tirade" at anyone, Tempo.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,633
    edited February 3
    mrussel1 said:
    What about the ones that climbed through windows? Do they count?
    They were invited in
    After flashing badges? And do they count too? Or just the ones through the busted down doors?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,604
    PJNB said:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/doj-capitol-rioters-charges-debate/2021/01/23/3b0cf112-5d97-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.
    Can you post the article.  I tried to get access and won't let me.
    Jan. 23, 2021 at 2:21 p.m. AST

    Federal law enforcement officials are privately debating whether they should decline to charge some of the individuals who stormed the U.S. Capitol this month — a politically loaded proposition but one alert to the practical concern that hundreds of such cases could swamp the local courthouse.

    The internal discussions are in their early stages, and no decisions have been reached about whether to forgo charging some of those who illegally entered the Capitol on Jan. 6, according to multiple people familiar with the discussions.

    Justice Department officials have promised a relentless effort to identify and arrest those who stormed the Capitol that day, but internally there is robust back-and-forth about whether charging them all is the best course of action. That debate comes at a time when officials are keenly sensitive that the credibility of the Justice Department and the FBI are at stake in such decisions, given the apparent security and intelligence failures that preceded the riot, these people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal deliberations.

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.

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    41 minutes of fear: A video timeline from inside the Capitol siege
    The Post obtained hours of video footage, some exclusively, and placed it within a digital 3-D model of the building. (TWP)
    AD

    Among those roughly 800 people, FBI agents and prosecutors have so far seen a broad mix of behavior — from people dressed for military battle, moving in formation, to wanton vandalism, to simply going with the crowd into the building.

    Due to the wide variety of behavior, some federal officials have argued internally that those people who are known only to have committed unlawful entry — and were not engaged in violent, threatening or destructive behavior — should not be charged, according to people familiar with the discussions.

    Psaki says administration will take action against ‘domestic violent extremism’ after Capitol riot
    White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Jan. 22 announced the National Security Council will build new capability to focus on domestic extremism. (The Washington Post)

    Other agents and prosecutors have pushed back against that suggestion, arguing that it is important to send a forceful message that the kind of political violence and mayhem on display Jan. 6 needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, so as to discourage similar conduct in the future.

    AD

    There are a host of other factors complicating the discussions, many of which center not around the politics of the riot, but the real-world work of investigators and prosecutors, these people said.

    The Justice Department has already charged more than 135 individuals with committing crimes in or around the Capitol building, and many more are expected to be charged in the coming weeks and months. By mid-January, the FBI had already received more than 200,000 tips from the public about the riot, in addition to news footage and police officer testimony.

    “There is absolute resolve from the Department of Justice to hold all who intentionally engaged in criminal acts at the Capitol accountable,” Justice Department spokesman Marc Raimondi said in an email. “We have consistently made clear that we will follow the facts and evidence and charge individuals accordingly. We remain confident that the U.S. District Court for Washington, DC can appropriately handle the docket related to any resulting charges.”

    AD

    The primary objective for authorities is to determine which individuals, if any, planned, orchestrated or directed the violence. To that end, the FBI has already found worrying linkages within such extremist groups as the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters, and is looking to see if those groups coordinated with each other to storm the building, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    Prosecutors have signaled they are looking to bring charges of seditious conspiracy against anyone who planned and carried out violence aimed at the government — a charge that carries a maximum possible prison sentence of 20 years.

    But even as Justice Department officials look to bring those types of cases, they privately acknowledge those more determined and dangerous individuals may have operated within a broader sea of people who rushed through the doors but didn’t do much else, and prosecutors will ultimately have to decide if all of those lesser offenders should be charged.

    AD

    Officials insisted they are not under pressure in regards to timing of decisions about how to handle those type of cases. For one thing, investigators are still gathering evidence, and agents could easily turn up additional photos or online postings that show a person they initially believed was harmless had, in fact, encouraged or engaged in other crimes.

    Investigators also expect that some of those charged in the riot will eventually cooperate and provide evidence against others, and that could change their understanding of what certain people said or did that day, these people said.

    Nevertheless, these people said, some in federal law enforcement are concerned that charging people solely with unlawful entry, when they are not known to have committed any other bad acts, could lead to losses if they go to trial.

    AD

    “If an old man says all he did was walk in and no one tried to stop him, and he walked out and no one tried to stop him, and that’s all we know about what he did, that’s a case we may not win,” one official said.

    Another official noted most of those arrested so far have no criminal records.

    Meanwhile, defense lawyers for some of those charged are contemplating something akin to a “Trump defense” — that the president or other authority figures gave them permission or invited them to commit an otherwise illegal act.

    “If you think of yourself as a soldier doing the bidding of the commander in chief, you don’t try to hide your actions. You assume you will be held up as a hero by the nation,” criminal defense lawyers Teri Kanefield and Mark Reichel wrote last week.

    Such a defense might not forestall charges but could be effective at trial or sentencing. Trump’s looming impeachment trial in the Senate will also focus further attention on his actions and raise questions about the culpability of followers for the misinformation spread by leaders around bogus election-fraud claims rejected by courts and state voting officials.

    AD

    “It’s not a like a bunch of people gathered on their own and decided to do this, it’s not like a mob. It’s people who were asked to come by the president, encouraged to come by the president, and encouraged to do what they did by the president and a number of others,” said one attorney representing defendants charged in the breach who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal strategy.

    Prosecutors have other options. For rioters with no previous criminal records or convictions and whose known behavior inside the Capitol was not violent or destructive, the government could enter into deferred plea agreements, a diversion program akin to pretrial probation in which prosecutors agree to drop charges if a defendant commits no offenses over a certain time period.

    Such a resolution would not result in even a misdemeanor conviction, and has been used before in some cases involving individuals with a history of mental illness who were arrested for jumping the White House fence. Criminal defense attorneys note there may be further distinctions between individuals who may have witnessed illegal activity or otherwise had reason to know they were entering a restricted area, and those for whom prosecutors can’t show such awareness.

    AD

    There is also a question over whether charging all of the rioters could swamp the federal court system. In 2019, D.C. federal courts recorded only about 430 criminal cases, and fewer than 300 last year, when the legal system slowed significantly due to the pandemic. Many of those cases, however, had multiple defendants.

    The workload of prosecuting the rioters could be eased if some of the cases were farmed out to other U.S. attorney offices around the country, but so far D.C. prosecutors have shown no interest in doing so. The law generally requires that individuals be prosecuted in the district in which a crime occurred.

    “The crime happened here. Prosecutors and judges can see the crime scene from their office windows. I find it strange anyone would suggest it be done anywhere else,” a person familiar with the investigation said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an internal debate.

    Beyond all the evidence-gathering and charging decisions left to do, federal officials concede there will likely be some number of people who were there that day and are simply never identified, due to some combination of luck, masks or lack of social media posts.

    TY.

    So minimum 700 people.  More than I thought were in there.
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 17,624
    dankind said:
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    200 got inside, broke through the doors down...

    My god man, if someone can find me a better number let me know because I really just want to know, that's all.  Just curious.
    Everyone of the people you see in that picture stormed the capitol. Not all of them got inside the actual building, THANK GOD. But everyone of the people you see above is a fucking terrorist traitor who deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. 


    I agree with you and I still want to know how many got inside...  That's all.  I just wanted to know.  Not sure how my question got twisted sideways?

    I swear people look at an angle for things that aren't there.  I seem to get this quite a bit when I ask a question.


    It's because you're an asshole, Chris. I thought you knew that. :lol:
    lol, THAT I do know!
    Because if you need a reminder:


    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,984
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Question.

    How many people did it look like stormed the Capital?

    I am now hearing a few thousand perhaps.  

    How many actually got in?  200?

    Just curious if numbers were thrown around.
    If that’s the case, could it be said that it was “mostly peaceful”?  /s
    the rally and the capital riot were two different events. 

    the rally looked peaceful. the riot was not. see, they were separate events. 
    They built a gallows. 
    weird. i didn't see a gallows at the RALLY. 
    I'm not sure that it would have functioned correctly but they put up a wooden structure with a noose
    Agreed, but considering the way they stormed the building and the violence they inflicted upon the police officers, I think the crowd loses the benefit of the doubt that the gallows was merely symbolic. 

    It should be assumed their intent was exactly what they declared, to "Hang Mike Pence". 
    agreed
    100%.  This was not a joke. 
    i never thought it was a joke. but it wasn't symbolic of the entire crowd. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Question.

    How many people did it look like stormed the Capital?

    I am now hearing a few thousand perhaps.  

    How many actually got in?  200?

    Just curious if numbers were thrown around.
    If that’s the case, could it be said that it was “mostly peaceful”?  /s
    the rally and the capital riot were two different events. 

    the rally looked peaceful. the riot was not. see, they were separate events. 
    They built a gallows. 
    weird. i didn't see a gallows at the RALLY. 
    I'm not sure that it would have functioned correctly but they put up a wooden structure with a noose
    Agreed, but considering the way they stormed the building and the violence they inflicted upon the police officers, I think the crowd loses the benefit of the doubt that the gallows was merely symbolic. 

    It should be assumed their intent was exactly what they declared, to "Hang Mike Pence". 
    agreed
    100%.  This was not a joke. 
    i never thought it was a joke. but it wasn't symbolic of the entire crowd. 
    Of course not, but it doesn't take many to commit the crime.  The more nefarious ones were leveraging the power of the mob.  I don't know exactly where this discussion is going or trying to go, but if a person entered the Capitol grounds with the intention of disrupting the counting of the EC, you committing sedition, by statute.  You don't have to want to kill someone, break anything, steal anything to be seditious.  And if you communicated with someone about that intent, it's seditious conspiracy.  These are felonies and if guilty, revoke your voting and firearm privileges for life, unless you receive some dispensation. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,984
    Funny how some get so offended when not even quoted, eh? OMG, an opinion I don't agree with! The horror!
    I quoted you because of the after comment.  If you didn't direct that first part at me then I'll move on.

    I'm not offended at all, you're still a tool.
    Grasping. 
    So did you you or didn't you direct your tirade at me?
    Tirade? Because I think you made a lame attempt at minimizing something by asking "how many?" What if it were one person and the result was the same? Say, one person with an assault rifle and a few hundred rounds of armor piercing ammo? Almost a month later and we're debating "how many got inside." Like it makes a fucking difference. Tirade. Tool. You seem stuck on Ts today, Tempo. Tirade. Tool. Tirading Tool. Tooling Tirader. Tirading Tool Tooling Tiraded. FFS. I'll respectfully ask, do you watch the news? Did you not see the countless hours of footage from inside the capitol? Seems to me to be more than 200. But again, what fucking difference does it make?
    so let's back this up: the guy got his facts wrong, he gets trashed for it. he then asks for facts, and now those facts are irrelevant? and how is asking for facts "minimizing" in your head?

    I'd say the difference between 200 and 10,000 is quite a fucking bit. and relevant. no matter the number, yes, they were all traitorous pieces of trash. but I think factual questions should be THE MINIMUM expectation around here. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,984
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Question.

    How many people did it look like stormed the Capital?

    I am now hearing a few thousand perhaps.  

    How many actually got in?  200?

    Just curious if numbers were thrown around.
    If that’s the case, could it be said that it was “mostly peaceful”?  /s
    the rally and the capital riot were two different events. 

    the rally looked peaceful. the riot was not. see, they were separate events. 
    They built a gallows. 
    weird. i didn't see a gallows at the RALLY. 
    I'm not sure that it would have functioned correctly but they put up a wooden structure with a noose
    Agreed, but considering the way they stormed the building and the violence they inflicted upon the police officers, I think the crowd loses the benefit of the doubt that the gallows was merely symbolic. 

    It should be assumed their intent was exactly what they declared, to "Hang Mike Pence". 
    agreed
    100%.  This was not a joke. 
    i never thought it was a joke. but it wasn't symbolic of the entire crowd. 
    Of course not, but it doesn't take many to commit the crime.  The more nefarious ones were leveraging the power of the mob.  I don't know exactly where this discussion is going or trying to go, but if a person entered the Capitol grounds with the intention of disrupting the counting of the EC, you committing sedition, by statute.  You don't have to want to kill someone, break anything, steal anything to be seditious.  And if you communicated with someone about that intent, it's seditious conspiracy.  These are felonies and if guilty, revoke your voting and firearm privileges for life, unless you receive some dispensation. 
    yeah, i know all that. i also have no idea where the hell this is going. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 21,213
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Question.

    How many people did it look like stormed the Capital?

    I am now hearing a few thousand perhaps.  

    How many actually got in?  200?

    Just curious if numbers were thrown around.
    If that’s the case, could it be said that it was “mostly peaceful”?  /s
    the rally and the capital riot were two different events. 

    the rally looked peaceful. the riot was not. see, they were separate events. 
    They built a gallows. 
    weird. i didn't see a gallows at the RALLY. 
    I'm not sure that it would have functioned correctly but they put up a wooden structure with a noose
    Agreed, but considering the way they stormed the building and the violence they inflicted upon the police officers, I think the crowd loses the benefit of the doubt that the gallows was merely symbolic. 

    It should be assumed their intent was exactly what they declared, to "Hang Mike Pence". 
    agreed
    100%.  This was not a joke. 
    i never thought it was a joke. but it wasn't symbolic of the entire crowd. 
    Of course not, but it doesn't take many to commit the crime.  The more nefarious ones were leveraging the power of the mob.  I don't know exactly where this discussion is going or trying to go, but if a person entered the Capitol grounds with the intention of disrupting the counting of the EC, you committing sedition, by statute.  You don't have to want to kill someone, break anything, steal anything to be seditious.  And if you communicated with someone about that intent, it's seditious conspiracy.  These are felonies and if guilty, revoke your voting and firearm privileges for life, unless you receive some dispensation. 
    yeah, i know all that. i also have no idea where the hell this is going. 
    Okay, we're all together on being confused.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,984
    tbergs said:
    Seems like a lot of radicalized people to me


    Around 200 or so. That's Trump math there. "A lot of people are saying...", "Everyone knows...", "The biggest..." Until large numbers equal bad, then it's just a few out of the masses. Everyone past the barricades "stormed" the capitol. Not all made it in, but the whole thing was treasonous.
    tempo never said the picture above was 200. he actually said something in the thousands were outside the capitol, but was asking about how many were INSIDE. does everyone understand the word INSIDE?? and asking how many were inside is not "minimizing". 

    some people just like facts. 

    kinda hard having a factual discussion without,...you know.....FACTS. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


This discussion has been closed.