Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
But this is not the Pearl Jam ticket game. It is the Pearl Jam ticket monopoly. They're selling about 5,000 tickets per show for significant discounts. These premium locations are guaranteed for a certain segment of the fan base, which limits the supply for all of the other fans. That's what drives up prices for the unfortunate people who are not lucky enough to win the various lotteries.
And this policy also limits Supply because lottery winners can now maximize the number of shows they are winning which also pushes up prices up on broker sites which in turn pushes up PJ premium prices
I don't buy it. They have always sold 10C tix at face value and resale tickets have always been obnoxiously priced (at least in the last 10 years or so). There is no difference now. Half the tickets on broker sites are speculation and for the actual tickets you can often see the same seats on multiple broker sites for the same price. Tickets are not outrageously priced because of the 10C tickets or because fans won multiple shows. There is no connection. Prices would be just as high even if there was no 10c sale and the lack of priority 10C based selections is not driving ticket prices up, the 10c tickets would have just been awarded to a more diverse group of fans under a priority system. That would only have a minimal, if any, effect on demand for Pearl Jam. These high prices are simply the result of TM owning the bulk of the tickets for each show and deploying a marketing scheme that capitalizes on the FOMO mentality, the wealthy, and getting the highest possible price for each ticket.
Yeah, I just got a National/War On Drugs ticket for $150, so we can relax about where PJ priced them (non dynamic of course)
There were also $62 tickets available, and up from that.
GA tickets to see The National at a larger outdoor event at Crystal Palace in London the week after Pearl Jam are £70 including fees. It’s £65 including fees to see them at Castlefield bowl in Manchester.
The National is great, so is The War on Drugs. But c’mon they aren’t in PJ’s league
I actually think it's insane that people will pay $200 or more for crap seats for these bands listed in this thread. I can understand paying a premium for very good seats. Otherwise I'd rather go see a jazz show for $30.
Arenas on up are the domain of more casual concert goers. If you only go to a couple shows a year you're not scrutinizing whether that ticket should be $80 or $180. A band catches your eye and you make plans.
Quite a few people in my life where I see this play out. Most recent example being Incubus. I was like man I'm not paying $160 to see Incubus and my cousin and sister were both like I don't know I want to see Incubus.
That's a good point. I think most or a lot of people just buy whatever ticket they can at the price available or can afford. Lots of the cheapest seats at arena and stadium shows sell out first. So $125 to be the last few of a stadium to see a band like the Rolling Stones sound like a good deal to the casual concert goer. I think it's a rip off and an insult. But I've seen a thousand concerts over the past 40+ years and little FOMO for any act, including PJ. I'd never pay $175 to sit in the upper deck of any arena to see any band. Maybe $75, but that's about it. But I am fine paying close to $200 to be in the pit for PJ in a few months. These days that's a concert bargain, even though I rare shell out that much to see concerts. $100 is pretty much my limit before thinking really hard about how much I want to go.
A friend of mine has $.He will go secondary market, and he will be in the pit for the one show he wants to go to. He is happy to pay the price for the best seat.
To him joining the fan club, doing lotteries, doing what we've all been doing for weeks now.....is insane. To each his own.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on.
This is correct. I'm not sure how people can argue otherwise. I guess a small group of pj fans still want/need to believe this is not true.
Don't forget about those of us who just don't care. Put the product and price in front of me and I'll decide whether to buy it.
I actually think it's insane that people will pay $200 or more for crap seats for these bands listed in this thread. I can understand paying a premium for very good seats. Otherwise I'd rather go see a jazz show for $30.
Arenas on up are the domain of more casual concert goers. If you only go to a couple shows a year you're not scrutinizing whether that ticket should be $80 or $180. A band catches your eye and you make plans.
Quite a few people in my life where I see this play out. Most recent example being Incubus. I was like man I'm not paying $160 to see Incubus and my cousin and sister were both like I don't know I want to see Incubus.
That's a good point. I think most or a lot of people just buy whatever ticket they can at the price available or can afford. Lots of the cheapest seats at arena and stadium shows sell out first. So $125 to be the last few of a stadium to see a band like the Rolling Stones sound like a good deal to the casual concert goer. I think it's a rip off and an insult. But I've seen a thousand concerts over the past 40+ years and little FOMO for any act, including PJ. I'd never pay $175 to sit in the upper deck of any arena to see any band. Maybe $75, but that's about it. But I am fine paying close to $200 to be in the pit for PJ in a few months. These days that's a concert bargain, even though I rare shell out that much to see concerts. $100 is pretty much my limit before thinking really hard about how much I want to go.
I feel the same way as you down to every last word
Yeah, I just got a National/War On Drugs ticket for $150, so we can relax about where PJ priced them (non dynamic of course)
There were also $62 tickets available, and up from that.
GA tickets to see The National at a larger outdoor event at Crystal Palace in London the week after Pearl Jam are £70 including fees. It’s £65 including fees to see them at Castlefield bowl in Manchester.
The National is great, so is The War on Drugs. But c’mon they aren’t in PJ’s league
I’m only really highlighting the price difference between the US and UK tickets for the band. Earlier in the thread it seemed to me people were posting that there was a level equivalence between their prices and Pearl Jams in the US. Or at least that Pearl Jams pricing was acceptable given what the National are charging. I may have misunderstood the point people were trying to make in doing that. If The National are charging $150 USD a ticket as someone mentioned but only £70 GBP for GA it says to me that whoever has set the pricing levels for the EU/UK Pearl Jam shows hasn’t quite grasped the different ticket markets in the two continents and also has maybe over estimated the band’s appeal/pulling power. From what I can tell most other bands mentioned as comparators in the several threads on this now are also selling at least some tickets cheaper in Europe and the UK. Foos, Green Day, AC/DC etc
Fwiw, for me, The National are great live and well worth £70 a ticket plus all the associated costs I’ve mentioned previously. Their new stuff gets played on the radio in the UK much more than Pearl Jam’s. It also helps that the support at the Crystal Palace show is far more interesting to me than Richard Ashcroft.
Pearl Jam have always been and will probably remain my favourite band, I think Gigaton was the best thing they have released since Binaural and it’s still in reasonable rotation for me. That being said, I think they have priced at least one of their shows way above the market value on this occasion in the UK.
They will have good seats and GA tickets for sale at "standard" prices by show time. This is obvious.
Yep. It's how I scored tickets for 10C prices a few weeks before the shows last year. Don't fall for the TM premium pricing bullshit. All these tickets will come down to sub $200 if you're willing to wait it out. It's been that way the last few tours.
Now, if you feel almost $200 per ticket with taxes and fees is still too high, then you're probably not seeing PJ again any time soon.
I wonder if they will ever go back to Europe. Maybe they should wait like five years to create some scarcity. It seems that going every two years doesn't meet the market demand.
They have always sold out their EU tours really rapidly, most venues sold within a day, extra nights added, while visiting every 2 years. Market demand has always been here in terms of people wanting to attend the shows. The only thing that's changed is the significant increase in ticket pricing here this time, which has brought their prices in line with those in the USA. People are just looking at it and saying that, while they want to go, they can't justify the prices. I know of at least 10-15 friends who are 10C members who were planning 4-6 shows as normal but are now only doing 1, maybe 2, at most. Some aren't doing any because they aren't prepared to support the price rise.
Count me in that last category. European shows have always sold out and fast. The demand is higher than ever but money is not . I cannot and will not pay the ridiculous prices. I also know at least 5 or more 10c members that cannot and will not pay that for a show.
brixton 93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
brixton 93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
$175 for a pit ticket in Missoula was considerably cheaper than seats for tyler childers the same week. Pearl Jam is still probably under their market value on pricing. That said, I make a normal middle income with a family of five and in the past year have had to think alot harder about luxury purchases like concert tickets and eating out.
Willie Nelson & Bob Dylan are playing near me and it’s $170 for lawn. And I don’t begrudge either of those guys a nickel. But compared to $170 for no seat on the muddy lawn, $175 for MSG seems less awful. The whole concert industry is broken. It’s not unique to PJ.
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
Willie Nelson & Bob Dylan are playing near me and it’s $170 for lawn. And I don’t begrudge either of those guys a nickel. But compared to $170 for no seat on the muddy lawn, $175 for MSG seems less awful. The whole concert industry is broken. It’s not unique to PJ.
Which show and on what site are you seeing that? For their show at Pine Knob, lawn is $40. So either you’re seeing resale, dynamic priced tickets or some venue is really out of line with pricing.
UPDATE: Just looked through every show of the tour, highest lawn price at face value is $79 at The Gorge, and there were several other shows in the $67-$69 range, which is still quite high for lawn, more than i would pay. Maybe you were seeing a VIP package at that price or something?
But none of that changes the fact that your last sentence is absolutely true!
"Pearl Jam has ticket policies that limit supply and increase demand. It is obvious their ticket policies drive up prices on the broker sites, which drove up PJPrem."
Thats totally fair. But what would you propose as a solution? Its clearly pretty complicated.
I guarantee having tix be $250 each (or more) with no premium wouldn't be welcomed with open arms. Nor would $500 pit tix. Tiered pricing = more profit on cheaper seats. Its complicated.
I think you quoted me there lol. I put out a list earlier of all top acts per seat geek, and the PJ prices exceeded everyone else. The only artist I could find recently with higher broker prices is Taylor. She’s a little bit more popular , no?
All the following impacts broker prices which then is justification for increases to PJ premium. This is market manipulation, not market value
When PJ decides that half the venue (floor and lower levels) will sell for face, but way below fair value, that drives up prices by reducing supply and increases the need for PJ PREM.
When PJ decides that seniors are guaranteed (as a block unit, members will vary) 80% discount off fair value on prime seat locations for an unlimited number of shows, that drives up demand, since the band (and buyers of upper level seats) are subsidizing the purchase. Seniors will put in for many more shows with these “significantly discounted tickets” which then drives down supply, which drives up prices
PJ decided for NY and Philly to not offer rear stage seating (Seattle did have tickets available) at the verified onsale time, significantly hurting fans with verified codes.
for some reason, many fans apparently scored tickets for three or four NE indoor shows. Based on PJ Premium prices, the odds per show seems to be about ten percent, so hitting all four is about one in ten thousand. Some have offered that there was a single draw based in the new rules, so a good lottery number gets fans an unlimited deluge of tickets, taking supply away from everyone else.
there’s more problems with their unique system, I’ll stop there…
… ok, to your question, what to do…
the closest seats are the ones that should have premium prices. Face value of many more tickets should be somewhat commensurate with actual value. There’s a reason every other band does it differently
so how so we take care of seniors? Perhaps limit the “80% off” premium tickets to one set per tour.
Have the lottery results limited to winning one show until all entries have at least one winning show if possible. Once that happens, then allow for multiple winners. Some in high demand markets will not win but their chances will be greatly increased
have tier pricing, sell tickets like all the other acts do 300…250…200…150…100; each category is a bucket in the lottery. This forces fans to place a dollar value on the experience, which is a million times fairer than the current disaster
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
release all the premium tickets at once. What they do now by releasing a few at a time is creating desperation and manipulation in the market place. They told us ten percent will be PJPrem, so be fair and release them all at once. Let a true market decide the price. If they sit unsold for days,DROP THE PRICES. They Told us these would be sold at market prices so if they don’t sell for a few days, drop the prices,
Perhaps have a second chance silent auction for those who completely lost the lottery. Put out a list of the same locations that are PJ Premium, and instead of manipulating fans, let them bid on specific ticket locations
Some good points here, but one thing you’re overlooking is, the only shows where resale is allowed is MSG and Wrigley, everywhere else on this tour is F2F only. So since the resellers are limited on their options for this tour, the tickets they can get their hands on are priced as such. That has nothing to do with the band. And as far as where they play, as much as i would love for them to vary their touring more, they’ve earned the right over the decades to play where they want. As much as it sucks for those of us in markets they don’t visit, that’s the reality.
. Check out Vivid seats, there are plenty of broker tickets out there . The band maximizes a guaranteed 80% discount for a certain segment of its fan base for the best seats. This drives up prices for those of us who are never entitled to this huge discount.
There is a reason their tickets on the secondary Market are so expensive, more expensive than any artist other than Taylor swift. Yes in past years they didn't tour as much and we attributed the high resale prices to that, but this year they're playing plenty of dates and the broker prices are worse than ever. And there are plenty tickets for Philadelphia Baltimore and Fenway on the broker sites.
These prices have everything to do with decisions the band makes about its tickets.
also not matching Supply with demand when choosing a tour itinerary, that also drives up prices. They must make seven or eight decisions about their tour and their ticket policies, all of which drive up prices for the Unfortunate Souls that don't win a 10% chance lottery
I am not saying whether or not it's their right, I'm just commenting on the policies and decisions and the impact those have on prices
Sure. But having tiered pricing doesn't change the demand. It might just change the profit from the reseller. If they can resell a $175 ticket for $1000 at MSG, they can certainly sell a $50-100 ticket for the same. If a pit ticket retails for $500-600 and they sell out.....why wouldn't you be able to resell for $1000+?
Having higher prices could easily equal higher premium and resale. See Taylor Swift.
Are you saying you want higher prices for fan club/base retail tix?
I also don't have the answers for any of this. But I can see it both ways.
Taylor is the only artist with higher broker prices. Even the Stones have lower prices than PJ NE, and they a much larger fanbase.
Tiered pricing would restrict demand to specific pricing, which would create a fairer market and reduce the extreme upward pressure on prices that Pearl Jam’s unique ticketing policy has. It’s also clear selling 5000 legacy tickets in prime locations for a fraction of FMV has an upward pressure on any tickets that hit the open market including PJPREMIUM
They just released more PJ Premium at MSG, for about $100 more than they were on Friday. They are creating desperation in the market. Instead of releasing the 10% of premium tickets at once, they artificially limit supply to boost premium prices.
the entire process of how they price tickets puts upward pressure on the 90% of fans wanting tickets to the NE indoor shows that did not win the lottery. A tiered price system would give fans a chance to spend 180, 250, 350, 450 etc for the 90% who lose the lottery.
Go to the supermarket now and all they have to eat is one loaf of bread. How much would that be priced at?
right now the choice for New Yorkers is $180 or $1000, and PJs policies drive up the $1000. It’s the worst ticketing policy in rock, by a mile.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
But this is not the Pearl Jam ticket game. It is the Pearl Jam ticket monopoly. They're selling about 5,000 tickets per show for significant discounts. These premium locations are guaranteed for a certain segment of the fan base, which limits the supply for all of the other fans. That's what drives up prices for the unfortunate people who are not lucky enough to win the various lotteries.
And this policy also limits Supply because lottery winners can now maximize the number of shows they are winning which also pushes up prices up on broker sites which in turn pushes up PJ premium prices
I don't buy it. They have always sold 10C tix at face value and resale tickets have always been obnoxiously priced (at least in the last 10 years or so). There is no difference now. Half the tickets on broker sites are speculation and for the actual tickets you can often see the same seats on multiple broker sites for the same price. Tickets are not outrageously priced because of the 10C tickets or because fans won multiple shows. There is no connection. Prices would be just as high even if there was no 10c sale and the lack of priority 10C based selections is not driving ticket prices up, the 10c tickets would have just been awarded to a more diverse group of fans under a priority system. That would only have a minimal, if any, effect on demand for Pearl Jam. These high prices are simply the result of TM owning the bulk of the tickets for each show and deploying a marketing scheme that capitalizes on the FOMO mentality, the wealthy, and getting the highest possible price for each ticket.
If you were to research all shows in or near the NE USA, PJ is priced far above every other artist except Taylor. Are they even close in popularity?
The difference now is the age old argument, they don’t play enough shows, has been proven false, since there is a good allotment of shows and premium prices are as high as ever. But when you develop a lottery that apparently maximizes the number of wins per draw, minimizing the number of winning members, and guarantees 5000 premium seats sold at a massive discount from FMV, and a handful of other policies that drive up prices, it’s clear on the broker and TM sites there is a unique driver in this bands ticketing policies.
When you offer tickets for $180 or $1000, with no chance for nothing in between , or you don’t release the ten percent PJPremium allotment at once, it’s clear what impact that has on market prices
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
I think they grasp it - they aren't stupid. What I think is more going on is that America is probably the most brutally capitalistic country in the world (no offense meant), so the citizens therefore tend to be more accepting of or used to this kind of thing.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
I think they grasp it - they aren't stupid. What I think is more going on is that America is probably the most brutally capitalistic country in the world (no offense meant), so the citizens therefore tend to be more accepting of or used to this kind of thing.
Used to this kind of thing? Yes. Accepting? Not as much.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
But this is not the Pearl Jam ticket game. It is the Pearl Jam ticket monopoly. They're selling about 5,000 tickets per show for significant discounts. These premium locations are guaranteed for a certain segment of the fan base, which limits the supply for all of the other fans. That's what drives up prices for the unfortunate people who are not lucky enough to win the various lotteries.
And this policy also limits Supply because lottery winners can now maximize the number of shows they are winning which also pushes up prices up on broker sites which in turn pushes up PJ premium prices
I don't buy it. They have always sold 10C tix at face value and resale tickets have always been obnoxiously priced (at least in the last 10 years or so). There is no difference now. Half the tickets on broker sites are speculation and for the actual tickets you can often see the same seats on multiple broker sites for the same price. Tickets are not outrageously priced because of the 10C tickets or because fans won multiple shows. There is no connection. Prices would be just as high even if there was no 10c sale and the lack of priority 10C based selections is not driving ticket prices up, the 10c tickets would have just been awarded to a more diverse group of fans under a priority system. That would only have a minimal, if any, effect on demand for Pearl Jam. These high prices are simply the result of TM owning the bulk of the tickets for each show and deploying a marketing scheme that capitalizes on the FOMO mentality, the wealthy, and getting the highest possible price for each ticket.
If you were to research all shows in or near the NE USA, PJ is priced far above every other artist except Taylor. Are they even close in popularity?
The difference now is the age old argument, they don’t play enough shows, has been proven false, since there is a good allotment of shows and premium prices are as high as ever. But when you develop a lottery that apparently maximizes the number of wins per draw, minimizing the number of winning members, and guarantees 5000 premium seats sold at a massive discount from FMV, and a handful of other policies that drive up prices, it’s clear on the broker and TM sites there is a unique driver in this bands ticketing policies.
When you offer tickets for $180 or $1000, with no chance for nothing in between , or you don’t release the ten percent PJPremium allotment at once, it’s clear what impact that has on market prices
Ticketmaster is trying to get as much as they can for each seat. That is it.The band has signed off on letting TM take control of how non 10C tickets are sold, maybe even how 10C tickets are sold, and that is a bummer, but it is not an accident that the current state is driving prices up. It is all a TM marketing strategy. Lets see how things look in 4 months. Right now the prices are as high as they will ever be.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
But this is not the Pearl Jam ticket game. It is the Pearl Jam ticket monopoly. They're selling about 5,000 tickets per show for significant discounts. These premium locations are guaranteed for a certain segment of the fan base, which limits the supply for all of the other fans. That's what drives up prices for the unfortunate people who are not lucky enough to win the various lotteries.
And this policy also limits Supply because lottery winners can now maximize the number of shows they are winning which also pushes up prices up on broker sites which in turn pushes up PJ premium prices
I don't buy it. They have always sold 10C tix at face value and resale tickets have always been obnoxiously priced (at least in the last 10 years or so). There is no difference now. Half the tickets on broker sites are speculation and for the actual tickets you can often see the same seats on multiple broker sites for the same price. Tickets are not outrageously priced because of the 10C tickets or because fans won multiple shows. There is no connection. Prices would be just as high even if there was no 10c sale and the lack of priority 10C based selections is not driving ticket prices up, the 10c tickets would have just been awarded to a more diverse group of fans under a priority system. That would only have a minimal, if any, effect on demand for Pearl Jam. These high prices are simply the result of TM owning the bulk of the tickets for each show and deploying a marketing scheme that capitalizes on the FOMO mentality, the wealthy, and getting the highest possible price for each ticket.
If you were to research all shows in or near the NE USA, PJ is priced far above every other artist except Taylor. Are they even close in popularity?
The difference now is the age old argument, they don’t play enough shows, has been proven false, since there is a good allotment of shows and premium prices are as high as ever. But when you develop a lottery that apparently maximizes the number of wins per draw, minimizing the number of winning members, and guarantees 5000 premium seats sold at a massive discount from FMV, and a handful of other policies that drive up prices, it’s clear on the broker and TM sites there is a unique driver in this bands ticketing policies.
When you offer tickets for $180 or $1000, with no chance for nothing in between , or you don’t release the ten percent PJPremium allotment at once, it’s clear what impact that has on market prices
Ticketmaster is trying to get as much as they can for each seat. That is it.The band has signed off on letting TM take control of how non 10C tickets are sold, maybe even how 10C tickets are sold, and that is a bummer, but it is not an accident that the current state is driving prices up. It is all a TM marketing strategy. Let’s see how things look in 4 months. Right now the prices are as high as they will ever be.
I hear your optimism. Last time at msg, prices didn’t drop until minutes before show time, and for many fans that’s not a workable situation. Sure a handful snagged a few “deals” they put out there for under $700 last time. Even Baltimore prices are at that level this year.
I understand how the premium algorithm works, but the band gave us specific language about “market rate,” and then their agent is manipulating supply which manipulates the market. on the Wikipedia page for the definition of market rate, they tell us that this is a free market. Limiting supply is not a free market in any definition of these words. They told us approximately 10% of inventory will be available at market rate, then they turn around and block supply for the overwhelming majority of these tickets. That’s manipulation of market not a free market.
We are all responsible for the actions our paid agents take, Pearl Jam is no different.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
But this is not the Pearl Jam ticket game. It is the Pearl Jam ticket monopoly. They're selling about 5,000 tickets per show for significant discounts. These premium locations are guaranteed for a certain segment of the fan base, which limits the supply for all of the other fans. That's what drives up prices for the unfortunate people who are not lucky enough to win the various lotteries.
And this policy also limits Supply because lottery winners can now maximize the number of shows they are winning which also pushes up prices up on broker sites which in turn pushes up PJ premium prices
I don't buy it. They have always sold 10C tix at face value and resale tickets have always been obnoxiously priced (at least in the last 10 years or so). There is no difference now. Half the tickets on broker sites are speculation and for the actual tickets you can often see the same seats on multiple broker sites for the same price. Tickets are not outrageously priced because of the 10C tickets or because fans won multiple shows. There is no connection. Prices would be just as high even if there was no 10c sale and the lack of priority 10C based selections is not driving ticket prices up, the 10c tickets would have just been awarded to a more diverse group of fans under a priority system. That would only have a minimal, if any, effect on demand for Pearl Jam. These high prices are simply the result of TM owning the bulk of the tickets for each show and deploying a marketing scheme that capitalizes on the FOMO mentality, the wealthy, and getting the highest possible price for each ticket.
If you were to research all shows in or near the NE USA, PJ is priced far above every other artist except Taylor. Are they even close in popularity?
The difference now is the age old argument, they don’t play enough shows, has been proven false, since there is a good allotment of shows and premium prices are as high as ever. But when you develop a lottery that apparently maximizes the number of wins per draw, minimizing the number of winning members, and guarantees 5000 premium seats sold at a massive discount from FMV, and a handful of other policies that drive up prices, it’s clear on the broker and TM sites there is a unique driver in this bands ticketing policies.
When you offer tickets for $180 or $1000, with no chance for nothing in between , or you don’t release the ten percent PJPremium allotment at once, it’s clear what impact that has on market prices
Ticketmaster is trying to get as much as they can for each seat. That is it.The band has signed off on letting TM take control of how non 10C tickets are sold, maybe even how 10C tickets are sold, and that is a bummer, but it is not an accident that the current state is driving prices up. It is all a TM marketing strategy. Let’s see how things look in 4 months. Right now the prices are as high as they will ever be.
I hear your optimism. Last time at msg, prices didn’t drop until minutes before show time, and for many fans that’s not a workable situation. Sure a handful snagged a few “deals” they put out there for under $700 last time. Even Baltimore prices are at that level this year.
I understand how the premium algorithm works, but the band gave us specific language about “market rate,” and then their agent is manipulating supply which manipulates the market. on the Wikipedia page for the definition of market rate, they tell us that this is a free market. Limiting supply is not a free market in any definition of these words. They told us approximately 10% of inventory will be available at market rate, then they turn around and block supply for the overwhelming majority of these tickets. That’s manipulation of market not a free market.
We are all responsible for the actions our paid agents take, Pearl Jam is no different.
There is nothing free about this market, for sure, it is the TM monopoly that is driving this situation. Those high prices across the board are TM taking advantage of the buying energy resulting from the excitement of the tour announcement. And yes, Pearl Jam is a party to this, that cannot be denied. That said, Tickets can be had if you work at it a bit, even for MSG. There are always fans that end up not going or that have a friend who flakes at the last minute. But you are right, it is usually 48 hrs before the show when this happens and that is not workable if you are traveling.
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
I think they grasp it - they aren't stupid. What I think is more going on is that America is probably the most brutally capitalistic country in the world (no offense meant), so the citizens therefore tend to be more accepting of or used to this kind of thing.
Yeah Im not calling anyone stupid at all. It's just not the same here.
brixton 93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Willie Nelson & Bob Dylan are playing near me and it’s $170 for lawn. And I don’t begrudge either of those guys a nickel. But compared to $170 for no seat on the muddy lawn, $175 for MSG seems less awful. The whole concert industry is broken. It’s not unique to PJ.
Which show and on what site are you seeing that? For their show at Pine Knob, lawn is $40. So either you’re seeing resale, dynamic priced tickets or some venue is really out of line with pricing.
UPDATE: Just looked through every show of the tour, highest lawn price at face value is $79 at The Gorge, and there were several other shows in the $67-$69 range, which is still quite high for lawn, more than i would pay. Maybe you were seeing a VIP package at that price or something?
But none of that changes the fact that your last sentence is absolutely true!
Having the majority of your tickets restricted from transfer drives up the prices. It kills the supply side of the secondary market. The handful of scalpers that know their way around the restrictions have a field day selling tickets for a ton of money without much competition from fans or other scalpers. You can't fairly compare pricing on the secondary market if you are looking at transfer restricted events vs non restricted events. Its not an apples to apples comparison.
Having the majority of your tickets restricted from transfer drives up the prices. It kills the supply side of the secondary market. The handful of scalpers that know their way around the restrictions have a field day selling tickets for a ton of money without much competition from fans or other scalpers. You can't fairly compare pricing on the secondary market if you are looking at transfer restricted events vs non restricted events. It’s not an apples to apples comparison.
Many of their ticketing decisions drive up prices. Rewarding senior fans is a good thing (although it does shut out newer fans from the seating process), but selling those prime tickets at a huge discount drives up prices of tickets hitting the “open market” , as does the transfer restriction.
Keeping tickets artificially low priced (as they’ve told us) and then releasing 10% and letting “market rate” set prices (although their agent limits supply so it is the exact opposite of market rate) it’s a manipulated rate.
Theres a reason their tickets on TM and broker sites are far and behind everyone’s prices not named Taylor. Their policies drive up prices hitting the “market.”
and are they ever going to explain why so many in the lottery did so well for the NE indoor shows? Doubtful.
I would expect tickets at places like MSG don't' drop too much. It's an Arena in an area of 10's of millions of people. It's always going to be high demand. and you don't usually see ticket prices drop for the really high demand shows too much.
On the polar opposite, I'm looking at Vancouver and a giant wad of the platinum tickets are in the rear sections of the lower bowl. I don't really feel they're going to sell all of those at 500 to 700/ticket. I suppose it's a positive. A lot of the closer tickets went to 10c (not all, but a fair amount).
I also think it's not great how TM withholds inventory. You never know how many tickets they haven't put on sale, and people make decisions to pay based on it looking like it's limited.
I'm actually surprised in Vancouver they're showing all those tickets for sale at the back. I figured they'd trickle them out to look more in demand.
Having the majority of your tickets restricted from transfer drives up the prices. It kills the supply side of the secondary market. The handful of scalpers that know their way around the restrictions have a field day selling tickets for a ton of money without much competition from fans or other scalpers. You can't fairly compare pricing on the secondary market if you are looking at transfer restricted events vs non restricted events. It’s not an apples to apples comparison.
Many of their ticketing decisions drive up prices. Rewarding senior fans is a good thing (although it does shut out newer fans from the seating process), but selling those prime tickets at a huge discount drives up prices of tickets hitting the “open market” , as does the transfer restriction.
Keeping tickets artificially low priced (as they’ve told us) and then releasing 10% and letting “market rate” set prices (although their agent limits supply so it is the exact opposite of market rate) it’s a manipulated rate.
Theres a reason their tickets on TM and broker sites are far and behind everyone’s prices not named Taylor. Their policies drive up prices hitting the “market.”
and are they ever going to explain why so many in the lottery did so well for the NE indoor shows? Doubtful.
I don't disagree with any of this. Phish just announced another summer tour, 3 shows at Mansfield, 3 shows at Deer creek, 3 shows at Alpine Valley, etc. Ticket pricing way cheaper, it can be done..
"Pearl Jam has ticket policies that limit supply and increase demand. It is obvious their ticket policies drive up prices on the broker sites, which drove up PJPrem."
Thats totally fair. But what would you propose as a solution? Its clearly pretty complicated.
I guarantee having tix be $250 each (or more) with no premium wouldn't be welcomed with open arms. Nor would $500 pit tix. Tiered pricing = more profit on cheaper seats. Its complicated.
I think you quoted me there lol. I put out a list earlier of all top acts per seat geek, and the PJ prices exceeded everyone else. The only artist I could find recently with higher broker prices is Taylor. She’s a little bit more popular , no?
All the following impacts broker prices which then is justification for increases to PJ premium. This is market manipulation, not market value
When PJ decides that half the venue (floor and lower levels) will sell for face, but way below fair value, that drives up prices by reducing supply and increases the need for PJ PREM.
When PJ decides that seniors are guaranteed (as a block unit, members will vary) 80% discount off fair value on prime seat locations for an unlimited number of shows, that drives up demand, since the band (and buyers of upper level seats) are subsidizing the purchase. Seniors will put in for many more shows with these “significantly discounted tickets” which then drives down supply, which drives up prices
PJ decided for NY and Philly to not offer rear stage seating (Seattle did have tickets available) at the verified onsale time, significantly hurting fans with verified codes.
for some reason, many fans apparently scored tickets for three or four NE indoor shows. Based on PJ Premium prices, the odds per show seems to be about ten percent, so hitting all four is about one in ten thousand. Some have offered that there was a single draw based in the new rules, so a good lottery number gets fans an unlimited deluge of tickets, taking supply away from everyone else.
there’s more problems with their unique system, I’ll stop there…
… ok, to your question, what to do…
the closest seats are the ones that should have premium prices. Face value of many more tickets should be somewhat commensurate with actual value. There’s a reason every other band does it differently
so how so we take care of seniors? Perhaps limit the “80% off” premium tickets to one set per tour.
Have the lottery results limited to winning one show until all entries have at least one winning show if possible. Once that happens, then allow for multiple winners. Some in high demand markets will not win but their chances will be greatly increased
have tier pricing, sell tickets like all the other acts do 300…250…200…150…100; each category is a bucket in the lottery. This forces fans to place a dollar value on the experience, which is a million times fairer than the current disaster
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
release all the premium tickets at once. What they do now by releasing a few at a time is creating desperation and manipulation in the market place. They told us ten percent will be PJPrem, so be fair and release them all at once. Let a true market decide the price. If they sit unsold for days,DROP THE PRICES. They Told us these would be sold at market prices so if they don’t sell for a few days, drop the prices,
Perhaps have a second chance silent auction for those who completely lost the lottery. Put out a list of the same locations that are PJ Premium, and instead of manipulating fans, let them bid on specific ticket locations
Some good points here, but one thing you’re overlooking is, the only shows where resale is allowed is MSG and Wrigley, everywhere else on this tour is F2F only. So since the resellers are limited on their options for this tour, the tickets they can get their hands on are priced as such. That has nothing to do with the band. And as far as where they play, as much as i would love for them to vary their touring more, they’ve earned the right over the decades to play where they want. As much as it sucks for those of us in markets they don’t visit, that’s the reality.
. Check out Vivid seats, there are plenty of broker tickets out there . The band maximizes a guaranteed 80% discount for a certain segment of its fan base for the best seats. This drives up prices for those of us who are never entitled to this huge discount.
There is a reason their tickets on the secondary Market are so expensive, more expensive than any artist other than Taylor swift. Yes in past years they didn't tour as much and we attributed the high resale prices to that, but this year they're playing plenty of dates and the broker prices are worse than ever. And there are plenty tickets for Philadelphia Baltimore and Fenway on the broker sites.
These prices have everything to do with decisions the band makes about its tickets.
also not matching Supply with demand when choosing a tour itinerary, that also drives up prices. They must make seven or eight decisions about their tour and their ticket policies, all of which drive up prices for the Unfortunate Souls that don't win a 10% chance lottery
I am not saying whether or not it's their right, I'm just commenting on the policies and decisions and the impact those have on prices
Sure. But having tiered pricing doesn't change the demand. It might just change the profit from the reseller. If they can resell a $175 ticket for $1000 at MSG, they can certainly sell a $50-100 ticket for the same. If a pit ticket retails for $500-600 and they sell out.....why wouldn't you be able to resell for $1000+?
Having higher prices could easily equal higher premium and resale. See Taylor Swift.
Are you saying you want higher prices for fan club/base retail tix?
I also don't have the answers for any of this. But I can see it both ways.
Taylor is the only artist with higher broker prices. Even the Stones have lower prices than PJ NE, and they a much larger fanbase.
Tiered pricing would restrict demand to specific pricing, which would create a fairer market and reduce the extreme upward pressure on prices that Pearl Jam’s unique ticketing policy has. It’s also clear selling 5000 legacy tickets in prime locations for a fraction of FMV has an upward pressure on any tickets that hit the open market including PJPREMIUM
They just released more PJ Premium at MSG, for about $100 more than they were on Friday. They are creating desperation in the market. Instead of releasing the 10% of premium tickets at once, they artificially limit supply to boost premium prices.
the entire process of how they price tickets puts upward pressure on the 90% of fans wanting tickets to the NE indoor shows that did not win the lottery. A tiered price system would give fans a chance to spend 180, 250, 350, 450 etc for the 90% who lose the lottery.
Go to the supermarket now and all they have to eat is one loaf of bread. How much would that be priced at?
right now the choice for New Yorkers is $180 or $1000, and PJs policies drive up the $1000. It’s the worst ticketing policy in rock, by a mile.
Stones retail prices dwarf PJs base price, and they are playing stadiums.
The demand for the remaining tix after fan club, + multiple other alottments would be the same IMO. Its still 2k-4k tix available to the public. That number doesn't change. Tiered pricing doesn't change the appetite of those who want to go. Tiered pricing doesn't change the fact that only 10-20% of the capacity is available. Those would sell out regardless.
The price of bread would be the retail price. The guy selling out of the back of his car in the parking lot would still be priced at a premium.
I totally agree with you about releasing premium in tiers. That does create demand. Pretty sure that isn't a band request. Thats a TM thing.
Your choice right now for New Yorkers is $180 f2f, premium, or 3rd party reseller. If there were tiered pricing (which would still sell out), and no premium. Then your options would be $180 f2f and 3rd party reseller. A quick check of Stubhub shows that it isn't as black and white as $180 or $1000. There are plenty of listings in between.
Its an alogorithm. If the demand remains the same the pricing wouldn't change.
I ask again. Are you saying you want higher priced fan club tix? Are you saying you want more in the secondary market?
Higher base prices could absolutely change things. It could also be the same. But then that opens a completely different can of worms.
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
I think they grasp it - they aren't stupid. What I think is more going on is that America is probably the most brutally capitalistic country in the world (no offense meant), so the citizens therefore tend to be more accepting of or used to this kind of thing.
Yup - capitalism = good. Make more money go to more pearl jam shows. It maths out.
That being said it appears they overpriced for Europe based on GDP and average incomes in those countries...however...
Problem is the cost of doing the tour overseas might be more in line with US costs or even higher due to international insurance/travel.. so ...what if the choice is PJ at high prices or PJ never goes to EU again? What would you choose?
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Agreed. Totally correct Americans can't seem to grasp this. I hope the shows don't sell .
I think they grasp it - they aren't stupid. What I think is more going on is that America is probably the most brutally capitalistic country in the world (no offense meant), so the citizens therefore tend to be more accepting of or used to this kind of thing.
Yup - capitalism = good. Make more money go to more pearl jam shows. It maths out.
That being said it appears they overpriced for Europe based on GDP and average incomes in those countries...however...
Problem is the cost of doing the tour overseas might be more in line with US costs or even higher due to international insurance/travel.. so ...what if the choice is PJ at high prices or PJ never goes to EU again? What would you choose?
The solution would be for the band to play more shows, but they play the bare minimum.
Comments
Thank you.
To him joining the fan club, doing lotteries, doing what we've all been doing for weeks now.....is insane. To each his own.
Fwiw, for me, The National are great live and well worth £70 a ticket plus all the associated costs I’ve mentioned previously. Their new stuff gets played on the radio in the UK much more than Pearl Jam’s. It also helps that the support at the Crystal Palace show is far more interesting to me than Richard Ashcroft.
Now, if you feel almost $200 per ticket with taxes and fees is still too high, then you're probably not seeing PJ again any time soon.
I also know at least 5 or more 10c members that cannot and will not pay that for a show.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
The whole concert industry is broken. It’s not unique to PJ.
UPDATE: Just looked through every show of the tour, highest lawn price at face value is $79 at The Gorge, and there were several other shows in the $67-$69 range, which is still quite high for lawn, more than i would pay. Maybe you were seeing a VIP package at that price or something?
But none of that changes the fact that your last sentence is absolutely true!
They just released more PJ Premium at MSG, for about $100 more than they were on Friday. They are creating desperation in the market. Instead of releasing the 10% of premium tickets at once, they artificially limit supply to boost premium prices.
the entire process of how they price tickets puts upward pressure on the 90% of fans wanting tickets to the NE indoor shows that did not win the lottery. A tiered price system would give fans a chance to spend 180, 250, 350, 450 etc for the 90% who lose the lottery.
Go to the supermarket now and all they have to eat is one loaf of bread. How much would that be priced at?
right now the choice for New Yorkers is $180 or $1000, and PJs policies drive up the $1000. It’s the worst ticketing policy in rock, by a mile.
When you offer tickets for $180 or $1000, with no chance for nothing in between , or you don’t release the ten percent PJPremium allotment at once, it’s clear what impact that has on market prices
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Ticketmaster is trying to get as much as they can for each seat. That is it.The band has signed off on letting TM take control of how non 10C tickets are sold, maybe even how 10C tickets are sold, and that is a bummer, but it is not an accident that the current state is driving prices up. It is all a TM marketing strategy. Lets see how things look in 4 months. Right now the prices are as high as they will ever be.
I understand how the premium algorithm works, but the band gave us specific language about “market rate,” and then their agent is manipulating supply which manipulates the market. on the Wikipedia page for the definition of market rate, they tell us that this is a free market. Limiting supply is not a free market in any definition of these words. They told us approximately 10% of inventory will be available at market rate, then they turn around and block supply for the overwhelming majority of these tickets. That’s manipulation of market not a free market.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Theres a reason their tickets on TM and broker sites are far and behind everyone’s prices not named Taylor. Their policies drive up prices hitting the “market.”
and are they ever going to explain why so many in the lottery did so well for the NE indoor shows? Doubtful.
On the polar opposite, I'm looking at Vancouver and a giant wad of the platinum tickets are in the rear sections of the lower bowl. I don't really feel they're going to sell all of those at 500 to 700/ticket. I suppose it's a positive. A lot of the closer tickets went to 10c (not all, but a fair amount).
I also think it's not great how TM withholds inventory. You never know how many tickets they haven't put on sale, and people make decisions to pay based on it looking like it's limited.
I'm actually surprised in Vancouver they're showing all those tickets for sale at the back. I figured they'd trickle them out to look more in demand.
The demand for the remaining tix after fan club, + multiple other alottments would be the same IMO. Its still 2k-4k tix available to the public. That number doesn't change. Tiered pricing doesn't change the appetite of those who want to go. Tiered pricing doesn't change the fact that only 10-20% of the capacity is available. Those would sell out regardless.
The price of bread would be the retail price. The guy selling out of the back of his car in the parking lot would still be priced at a premium.
I totally agree with you about releasing premium in tiers. That does create demand. Pretty sure that isn't a band request. Thats a TM thing.
Your choice right now for New Yorkers is $180 f2f, premium, or 3rd party reseller. If there were tiered pricing (which would still sell out), and no premium. Then your options would be $180 f2f and 3rd party reseller. A quick check of Stubhub shows that it isn't as black and white as $180 or $1000. There are plenty of listings in between.
Its an alogorithm. If the demand remains the same the pricing wouldn't change.
I ask again. Are you saying you want higher priced fan club tix? Are you saying you want more in the secondary market?
Higher base prices could absolutely change things. It could also be the same. But then that opens a completely different can of worms.
Yup - capitalism = good. Make more money go to more pearl jam shows. It maths out.
That being said it appears they overpriced for Europe based on GDP and average incomes in those countries...however...
Problem is the cost of doing the tour overseas might be more in line with US costs or even higher due to international insurance/travel.. so ...what if the choice is PJ at high prices or PJ never goes to EU again? What would you choose?
That all indicates ticket prices were too low!