This is a bad take. Say what you want about ticket prices, but Ed is out there championing EB Research and donating items to fundraisers, Jeff funds and contributes time to skate park initiatives, especially in Montana, Stone is still out there handing out copies of Real Change with Seattle's homeless, Mike seems to be at every CCFA benefit that happens and also pops up at dozens of other charity events, Matt has played at SubPop Tributes, raised money for WarChild, etc...
The guys still stand for plenty. They just also want to capture more of the revenue that their ticket sales are capable of generating. Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.
perhaps I worded that wrong.Raising money for charity isn't the same. I would never discount what they do for causes, it's a lot of the reason it was easy to fall in love with this band in the first place. They took their stand in 1995 against Ticketmaster and it stuck with them. It's been mentioned in every profile/story on them the last 30 years. I love them for that. What is happening now is not in line with that. They've caved, and it's been heading that way for a while.
At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.
At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.
Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!
I wish someone would find one band other than the Cure that limited prices.
Limiting prices, F2F, no dynamic prices... perfect result for their fans and they still had the most profitable tour of their career.
A slight difference but still a result against TM/LN... and another band with arguably a much lower profile and less clout that PJ!
Crowded House did a tour of New Zealand in 2020 where it was implemented without the bands knowledge, theband intervened with excellent results for their fans - a refund of the difference between the face value and what was actually paid for all.
"Live Nation said it would honour Crowded House’s wishes on the matter, saying: “It is always up to the artist as to how their tickets are priced and sold, especially with In Demand tickets as those are designed to ensure all value is coming back to the artist instead of lining the pockets of scalpers.”
"Pearl Jam has ticket policies that limit supply and increase demand. It is obvious their ticket policies drive up prices on the broker sites, which drove up PJPrem."
Thats totally fair. But what would you propose as a solution? Its clearly pretty complicated.
I guarantee having tix be $250 each (or more) with no premium wouldn't be welcomed with open arms. Nor would $500 pit tix. Tiered pricing = more profit on cheaper seats. Its complicated.
I think you quoted me there lol. I put out a list earlier of all top acts per seat geek, and the PJ prices exceeded everyone else. The only artist I could find recently with higher broker prices is Taylor. She’s a little bit more popular , no?
All the following impacts broker prices which then is justification for increases to PJ premium. This is market manipulation, not market value
When PJ decides that half the venue (floor and lower levels) will sell for face, but way below fair value, that drives up prices by reducing supply and increases the need for PJ PREM.
When PJ decides that seniors are guaranteed (as a block unit, members will vary) 80% discount off fair value on prime seat locations for an unlimited number of shows, that drives up demand, since the band (and buyers of upper level seats) are subsidizing the purchase. Seniors will put in for many more shows with these “significantly discounted tickets” which then drives down supply, which drives up prices
PJ decided for NY and Philly to not offer rear stage seating (Seattle did have tickets available) at the verified onsale time, significantly hurting fans with verified codes.
for some reason, many fans apparently scored tickets for three or four NE indoor shows. Based on PJ Premium prices, the odds per show seems to be about ten percent, so hitting all four is about one in ten thousand. Some have offered that there was a single draw based in the new rules, so a good lottery number gets fans an unlimited deluge of tickets, taking supply away from everyone else.
there’s more problems with their unique system, I’ll stop there…
… ok, to your question, what to do…
the closest seats are the ones that should have premium prices. Face value of many more tickets should be somewhat commensurate with actual value. There’s a reason every other band does it differently
so how so we take care of seniors? Perhaps limit the “80% off” premium tickets to one set per tour.
Have the lottery results limited to winning one show until all entries have at least one winning show if possible. Once that happens, then allow for multiple winners. Some in high demand markets will not win but their chances will be greatly increased
have tier pricing, sell tickets like all the other acts do 300…250…200…150…100; each category is a bucket in the lottery. This forces fans to place a dollar value on the experience, which is a million times fairer than the current disaster
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
release all the premium tickets at once. What they do now by releasing a few at a time is creating desperation and manipulation in the market place. They told us ten percent will be PJPrem, so be fair and release them all at once. Let a true market decide the price. If they sit unsold for days,DROP THE PRICES. They Told us these would be sold at market prices so if they don’t sell for a few days, drop the prices,
Perhaps have a second chance silent auction for those who completely lost the lottery. Put out a list of the same locations that are PJ Premium, and instead of manipulating fans, let them bid on specific ticket locations
"Pearl Jam has ticket policies that limit supply and increase demand. It is obvious their ticket policies drive up prices on the broker sites, which drove up PJPrem."
Thats totally fair. But what would you propose as a solution? Its clearly pretty complicated.
I guarantee having tix be $250 each (or more) with no premium wouldn't be welcomed with open arms. Nor would $500 pit tix. Tiered pricing = more profit on cheaper seats. Its complicated.
I think you quoted me there lol. I put out a list earlier of all top acts per seat geek, and the PJ prices exceeded everyone else. The only artist I could find recently with higher broker prices is Taylor. She’s a little bit more popular , no?
All the following impacts broker prices which then is justification for increases to PJ premium. This is market manipulation, not market value
When PJ decides that half the venue (floor and lower levels) will sell for face, but way below fair value, that drives up prices by reducing supply and increases the need for PJ PREM.
When PJ decides that seniors are guaranteed (as a block unit, members will vary) 80% discount off fair value on prime seat locations for an unlimited number of shows, that drives up demand, since the band (and buyers of upper level seats) are subsidizing the purchase. Seniors will put in for many more shows with these “significantly discounted tickets” which then drives down supply, which drives up prices
PJ decided for NY and Philly to not offer rear stage seating (Seattle did have tickets available) at the verified onsale time, significantly hurting fans with verified codes.
for some reason, many fans apparently scored tickets for three or four NE indoor shows. Based on PJ Premium prices, the odds per show seems to be about ten percent, so hitting all four is about one in ten thousand. Some have offered that there was a single draw based in the new rules, so a good lottery number gets fans an unlimited deluge of tickets, taking supply away from everyone else.
there’s more problems with their unique system, I’ll stop there…
… ok, to your question, what to do…
the closest seats are the ones that should have premium prices. Face value of many more tickets should be somewhat commensurate with actual value. There’s a reason every other band does it differently
so how so we take care of seniors? Perhaps limit the “80% off” premium tickets to one set per tour.
Have the lottery results limited to winning one show until all entries have at least one winning show if possible. Once that happens, then allow for multiple winners. Some in high demand markets will not win but their chances will be greatly increased
have tier pricing, sell tickets like all the other acts do 300…250…200…150…100; each category is a bucket in the lottery. This forces fans to place a dollar value on the experience, which is a million times fairer than the current disaster
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
release all the premium tickets at once. What they do now by releasing a few at a time is creating desperation and manipulation in the market place. They told us ten percent will be PJPrem, so be fair and release them all at once. Let a true market decide the price. If they sit unsold for days,DROP THE PRICES. They Told us these would be sold at market prices so if they don’t sell for a few days, drop the prices,
Perhaps have a second chance silent auction for those who completely lost the lottery. Put out a list of the same locations that are PJ Premium, and instead of manipulating fans, let them bid on specific ticket locations
Some good points here, but one thing you’re overlooking is, the only shows where resale is allowed is MSG and Wrigley, everywhere else on this tour is F2F only. So since the resellers are limited on their options for this tour, the tickets they can get their hands on are priced as such. That has nothing to do with the band. And as far as where they play, as much as i would love for them to vary their touring more, they’ve earned the right over the decades to play where they want. As much as it sucks for those of us in markets they don’t visit, that’s the reality.
Definitely some good points. Here is a dude that has put more thought than "the band should take less $" into it.
All fair ideas, but I don't think secondary prices early after sale should be a barometer. Tiered pricing has always made sense to me, but I'm not sure that changes anything in terms of resale. You could argue it makes it worse.
Premier tix actually being "premier" and the best seats also makes sense from a general sales aspect. But it wouldn't make sense to the fans. It would only drive more aggravation. If 10% of GA gets taken away (the best seats), that makes it even harder for members to get drawn that it currently is. That same principle would apply to the actual best seats in the best sections. Thats a no win situation.
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
if this was the case they need to play 4 or 5 shows in NYC and Philly if insist on playing indoors. Really not sure what the solution is for Philly and NY other than play more shows in each city at one time. Or play the ballparks. I am still stunned they haven't played Citizens Bank Park in Philly yet. Now could have been issues with that this year because CBP had at least 3 shows that I know of re-scheduled from last year for this year because of cancellations (2 Springsteen and Morgan Wallen). And there are only so many dates available in the ballparks because you need about a week of no baseball dates to play shows.
And I actually think it's really cool they play smaller and different places. It's a great experience to go places you maybe wouldn't normally go to see this band. Plus in those smaller and/or non-NE places getting 10C tickets can be easier than the Philly and NYC shows.
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
if this was the case they need to play 4 or 5 shows in NYC and Philly if insist on playing indoors. Really not sure what the solution is for Philly and NY other than play more shows in each city at one time. Or play the ballparks. I am still stunned they haven't played Citizens Bank Park in Philly yet. Now could have been issues with that this year because CBP had at least 3 shows that I know of re-scheduled from last year for this year because of cancellations (2 Springsteen and Morgan Wallen). And there are only so many dates available in the ballparks because you need about a week of no baseball dates to play shows.
And I actually think it's really cool they play smaller and different places. It's a great experience to go places you maybe wouldn't normally go to see this band. Plus in those smaller and/or non-NE places getting 10C tickets can be easier than the Philly and NYC shows.
No ball parks in NYC please. They are terrible. And really PJ should just keep playing Camden. Those shows have been great all these years.
They definitely out punted their coverage this tour as evident by the amount of tickets left for the european shows. Literally thousands of unsold tickets.
ha! no chance, friend. it's early, they wlll all sell.
They definitely out punted their coverage this tour as evident by the amount of tickets left for the european shows. Literally thousands of unsold tickets.
ha! no chance, friend. it's early, they wlll all sell.
Not at 160 for London they won't. The nosebleed seats have already been reduced to 90 due to lack of confidence in them selling.
I think they will still struggle to sell the very back of Spurs at £90 a ticket. I’ve not bought tickets yet and I have been to at least one show, usually 2, on every Euro tour since 2000. I hope I’m wrong on one level but I really do think that they have misunderstood their reach this time round along with announcing very late. The higher than anticipated ticket prices in Europe are not the only limiting factor here imo so it’s not just the cost of the tickets that I’m factoring in. Travel, hotels and food have all got a lot more expensive. If you expect your core fanbase to travel to see you, you shouldn’t be surprised if sales are much slower when costs for everything associated with the travel has gone up.
We’re fortunate enough to be able to afford to go to the shows, to travel to see the band in other countries if we want etc. It just doesn’t feel to me that a minimum of £500 for a night out, all factors considered, with shit seats at the back of a stadium is good value for money no matter how much I like the band or how good they are.
They definitely out punted their coverage this tour as evident by the amount of tickets left for the european shows. Literally thousands of unsold tickets.
ha! no chance, friend. it's early, they wlll all sell.
Not at 160 for London they won't. The nosebleed seats have already been reduced to 90 due to lack of confidence in them selling.
What were the nosebleeds at the start?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
This is a bad take. Say what you want about ticket prices, but Ed is out there championing EB Research and donating items to fundraisers, Jeff funds and contributes time to skate park initiatives, especially in Montana, Stone is still out there handing out copies of Real Change with Seattle's homeless, Mike seems to be at every CCFA benefit that happens and also pops up at dozens of other charity events, Matt has played at SubPop Tributes, raised money for WarChild, etc...
The guys still stand for plenty. They just also want to capture more of the revenue that their ticket sales are capable of generating. Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.
perhaps I worded that wrong.Raising money for charity isn't the same. I would never discount what they do for causes, it's a lot of the reason it was easy to fall in love with this band in the first place. They took their stand in 1995 against Ticketmaster and it stuck with them. It's been mentioned in every profile/story on them the last 30 years. I love them for that. What is happening now is not in line with that. They've caved, and it's been heading that way for a while.
Because they lost! They fought Ticketmaster and they lost. It materially damaged their career and it changed exactly jack-squat. They were back in TM venues by ‘98. And TM has only grown since then.
You cannot do an arena tour in the US without TM. Full stop. They are worth $200-ish a ticket to me but everyone has to decide that for themselves.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
I think a lot of people expect Pearl Jam to be an outlier as well with their past history.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
I think a lot of people expect Pearl Jam to be an outlier as well with their past history.
These prices may be the norm in the US. As loads of other people have pointed out, you can’t compare the US to Europe so I still think tickets are overpriced here. I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Yeah, I just got a National/War On Drugs ticket for $150, so we can relax about where PJ priced them (non dynamic of course)
Also paid 160 Cdn for Pit tickets, Lawns were $60.
Barrie 98, Toronto 00, Toronto 03, Buffalo 03, Toronto 05, Hamilton 05, Kitchener 05, Toronto 06 I II, Lolla 07, Vedder Toronto I II, Toronto 09, Philly Oct 30 & 31 2009, Buffalo 2010, Cleveland 2010, Toronto I II 2011, Hamilton 2011, Ottawa 2011, London 2013, Buffalo 2013, Pittsburgh 2013, FLL 2016, Miami 2016, Tor I & II 2016, Barcelona 2018, Toronto 2022, Ottawa 2022, Quebec City 2022, Hamilton 2022
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
I think a lot of people expect Pearl Jam to be an outlier as well with their past history.
30 years ago! That is mistake. They have been doing business with TM since 1998. They are buying into a myth that has not existed for a long time.
Do not hate the players, hate the game. It is Ticketmaster's monopoly that is ultimately hurting consumers. You cannot blame the band for accepting more money when others are making money off their gigs. And do not mention the Cure as they are an outlier.
I think a lot of people expect Pearl Jam to be an outlier as well with their past history.
Agreed.
This is exactly it. The hypocrisy is that we have changed a lot (all of us). Yet they are expected to stay exactly the same. Thats just not how life works.
Comments
All the following impacts broker prices which then is justification for increases to PJ premium. This is market manipulation, not market value
When PJ decides that seniors are guaranteed (as a block unit, members will vary) 80% discount off fair value on prime seat locations for an unlimited number of shows, that drives up demand, since the band (and buyers of upper level seats) are subsidizing the purchase. Seniors will put in for many more shows with these “significantly discounted tickets” which then drives down supply, which drives up prices
PJ decided for NY and Philly to not offer rear stage seating (Seattle did have tickets available) at the verified onsale time, significantly hurting fans with verified codes.
for some reason, many fans apparently scored tickets for three or four NE indoor shows. Based on PJ Premium prices, the odds per show seems to be about ten percent, so hitting all four is about one in ten thousand. Some have offered that there was a single draw based in the new rules, so a good lottery number gets fans an unlimited deluge of tickets, taking supply away from everyone else.
there’s more problems with their unique system, I’ll stop there…
…
ok, to your question, what to do…
the closest seats are the ones that should have premium prices. Face value of many more tickets should be somewhat commensurate with actual value. There’s a reason every other band does it differently
so how so we take care of seniors? Perhaps limit the “80% off” premium tickets to one set per tour.
have tier pricing, sell tickets like all the other acts do 300…250…200…150…100; each category is a bucket in the lottery. This forces fans to place a dollar value on the experience, which is a million times fairer than the current disaster
Try to match where you want to play and figure out who wants to see you more than anyone else. That’s where the majority of shows should be.stop expecting fans to fly to places you like, and in some cases taunt them with hundreds of unsold tickets.
release all the premium tickets at once. What they do now by releasing a few at a time is creating desperation and manipulation in the market place. They told us ten percent will be PJPrem, so be fair and release them all at once. Let a true market decide the price. If they sit unsold for days,DROP THE PRICES. They Told us these would be sold at market prices so if they don’t sell for a few days, drop the prices,
And as far as where they play, as much as i would love for them to vary their touring more, they’ve earned the right over the decades to play where they want. As much as it sucks for those of us in markets they don’t visit, that’s the reality.
All fair ideas, but I don't think secondary prices early after sale should be a barometer. Tiered pricing has always made sense to me, but I'm not sure that changes anything in terms of resale. You could argue it makes it worse.
Premier tix actually being "premier" and the best seats also makes sense from a general sales aspect. But it wouldn't make sense to the fans. It would only drive more aggravation. If 10% of GA gets taken away (the best seats), that makes it even harder for members to get drawn that it currently is. That same principle would apply to the actual best seats in the best sections. Thats a no win situation.
And I actually think it's really cool they play smaller and different places. It's a great experience to go places you maybe wouldn't normally go to see this band. Plus in those smaller and/or non-NE places getting 10C tickets can be easier than the Philly and NYC shows.
No ball parks in NYC please. They are terrible. And really PJ should just keep playing Camden. Those shows have been great all these years.
We’re fortunate enough to be able to afford to go to the shows, to travel to see the band in other countries if we want etc. It just doesn’t feel to me that a minimum of £500 for a night out, all factors considered, with shit seats at the back of a stadium is good value for money no matter how much I like the band or how good they are.
They are worth $200-ish a ticket to me but everyone has to decide that for themselves.
Stones
Rear GA $200+ (plus fees)
I also paid 10$ for an ice cream in NYC that would’ve cost me 3€ in Germany so there’s that.
Back of the floor sucks IMHO. I would rather be in the 200s side stage.