Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

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Comments

  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,662
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    To be fair, a box of goop is a lot different than an 8 week old baby in-utero.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 14,942
    yes
    I miss igotid88
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    Here’s a dumb question for you. Same situation. 2 women, same age. 1 is 2 weeks pregnant, the other is not with child. You can only save 1. Which one do you choose?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,627
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    To be fair, a box of goop is a lot different than an 8 week old baby in-utero.
    that's true....but I would guess that the vast majority of abortions are the goop variety


    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,662
    Here’s a dumb question for you. Same situation. 2 women, same age. 1 is 2 weeks pregnant, the other is not with child. You can only save 1. Which one do you choose?
    Hmmm, I know this one. I can't save 2 because 2 isn't 1 so I must save 1 because I can't save 2. What color is their hair? That will help me decide.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,627
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,662
    edited July 11
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    To be fair, a box of goop is a lot different than an 8 week old baby in-utero.
    that's true....but I would guess that the vast majority of abortions are the goop variety


    The stats aren't real clear and there is no requirement for reporting, but it seems the majority are less than 13 weeks.

    In 2014, 652,639 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2014 was 12.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 186 abortions per 1,000 live births.

    Compared with 2013, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2014 decreased 2%, and the ratio decreased 7%. Additionally, from 2005 to 2014, the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 21%, 22%, and 22%, respectively. In 2014, all three measures reached their lowest level for the entire period of analysis (2005—2014).

    Women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions in 2014 and throughout the period of analysis. The majority of abortions in 2014 took place early in gestation:  91.5% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (7.2%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (1.3%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. In 2014, 22.6% of all abortions were early medical abortions. The percentage of abortions reported as early medical abortions increased 110% from 2005 to 2014, with a 1% increase from 2013 to 2014. Source: Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2014 Surveillance Summaries, November 24, 2017, 66(24);1–48, MMWR.

    Quite a bit of developmental difference between 4 weeks and 13 weeks so without concrete information on exact abortion timeframes I don't think we can honestly make an assumption on how close to goop many of them really are. The heartbeat is at around 5 weeks, so anything under that I guess could fit with that not so proper term.

    ^^^^The 5 week "goop"

    ^^^Not so goopy at 13 weeks. 
    Post edited by tbergs on
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,627
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,667
    edited July 11
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    I’d save the 5 year old, I have no problem admitting that. Most of those embryos won’t be born, the boy’s life is more valuable.
    That doesn’t mean the embryos have no value.
    Same scenario, the boy is saved. Turns out it was arsen. Is he treated the same as if he set a glue factory on fire, or is there more at stake?
    I forget most of the details and outcome, but a few months ago something like that did happen. Wasn’t arsen, some technology glitch or something. They were sued for millions for emotional damages by their clients, and if I had to guess probably did or will win. So much emotion over insignificant pieces of property.
    Should the many men who’ve been found nd guilty of murder for causing the death of an unborn child be overturned? I mean, you can’t murder goo can you? Their life sentences should be time served for domestic violence, and not murder, right?
    Our laws don’t make sense and are hypocritical. Is it a life or is it not? Is it goo or something of value. It can’t be both.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,718
    Here’s a dumb question for you. Same situation. 2 women, same age. 1 is 2 weeks pregnant, the other is not with child. You can only save 1. Which one do you choose?
    obviously the hotter one...yea i went there :smiley:

    and how would you possible know a woman is 2 weeks pregnant?  the woman wouldn't even know at that point most likely.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,662
    pjhawks said:
    Here’s a dumb question for you. Same situation. 2 women, same age. 1 is 2 weeks pregnant, the other is not with child. You can only save 1. Which one do you choose?
    obviously the hotter one...yea i went there :smiley:

    and how would you possible know a woman is 2 weeks pregnant?  the woman wouldn't even know at that point most likely.
    That was his point from what I gathered.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    pjhawks said:
    Here’s a dumb question for you. Same situation. 2 women, same age. 1 is 2 weeks pregnant, the other is not with child. You can only save 1. Which one do you choose?
    obviously the hotter one...yea i went there :smiley:

    and how would you possible know a woman is 2 weeks pregnant?  the woman wouldn't even know at that point most likely.
    It’s a fire. They are both hot.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,627
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,627
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  
    not avoiding....if she had a sign I would save her....no sign then I would save whichever one I was closest to.  Any rational person would say that....just like my scenario
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  

    This is a stupid question.

    In your question... there is viable life for both choices. In the question posed to you... there was life and there was goop to choose from. The questions aren't the same thing at all. I don't know how you think they are.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  

    This is a stupid question.

    In your question... there is viable life for both choices. In the question posed to you... there was life and there was goop to choose from. The questions aren't the same thing at all. I don't know how you think they are.
    Well to be honest they are both stupid questions. ;)

    So - which would you save?  Or doe it not matter to you?  And that's a ok answer too.  Not the right one but an ok one. :)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  

    This is a stupid question.

    In your question... there is viable life for both choices. In the question posed to you... there was life and there was goop to choose from. The questions aren't the same thing at all. I don't know how you think they are.
    Well to be honest they are both stupid questions. ;)

    So - which would you save?  Or doe it not matter to you?  And that's a ok answer too.  Not the right one but an ok one. :)

    I guess I'd save the one I had the closest relationship with. If the relationship was on par, I guess it would be a flip of the coin?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  
    not avoiding....if she had a sign I would save her....no sign then I would save whichever one I was closest to.  Any rational person would say that....just like my scenario
    So I guess that we agree that current viable life is more important then the potential of life, however, viable life with the potential for more life > viable life.

    What we've discovered is that none of these stupid statements meant to elicit emotion response actually have anything to do with the abortion debate, but can be made up to make it look like 1 side is right even though neither is an equivalent of the abortion debate.

    I am against abortion.  As I have stated I have stopped even considering it when it comes to elections.  If someone has an abortion, it disappoints me but they aren't bad people.  And since the Supreme court has ruled and the people are for it...(and probably because my viewpoint doesn;t stem from religious aspects) I'm in the anti-abortion camp but with no real desire to change laws, etc (other than make it easier for people to have access to birth control and education).
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Here's the thing:

    People in favour of abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 7,627
    mace1229 said:
    I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

    I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

    I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.
    I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
    its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
    Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
    I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.
    I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

    Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

    You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

    You can only save one.  Which do you save?


    These are all so stupid. 
    So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

    and...which one would you save?
    Shall I come up with a stupid story too?



    we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense
    In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.
    Good job ducking the question.

    I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

    It’s a dumb fucking question.
    it's only dumb because the answer is so obvious....like why is water wet?
    It’s dumb because it has nothing to do with abortion. By being pro choice you aren’t saving a 5 year old. It has no basis in the discussion other than some fake emotion. 
    ridiculous....it points out that 1000 embryos are not equivalent to one toddler
    Ignoring my question I see....
    so yeah is she wearing a sign around her neck that says "I'm pregnant"?  You're trying to make a point but the setup isn't quite there.
    Avoiding again....nice.  
    not avoiding....if she had a sign I would save her....no sign then I would save whichever one I was closest to.  Any rational person would say that....just like my scenario
    So I guess that we agree that current viable life is more important then the potential of life, however, viable life with the potential for more life > viable life.

    What we've discovered is that none of these stupid statements meant to elicit emotion response actually have anything to do with the abortion debate, but can be made up to make it look like 1 side is right even though neither is an equivalent of the abortion debate.

    I am against abortion.  As I have stated I have stopped even considering it when it comes to elections.  If someone has an abortion, it disappoints me but they aren't bad people.  And since the Supreme court has ruled and the people are for it...(and probably because my viewpoint doesn;t stem from religious aspects) I'm in the anti-abortion camp but with no real desire to change laws, etc (other than make it easier for people to have access to birth control and education).
    My question at least gets you to consider that goop isn't a human being.  1,000 pieces of goop aren't human beings either.

    I am also against abortion.  I wish there were no circumstances that required it.  I wish that people were responsible enough to avoid it completely.  But I don't believe the government should have any role in making that decision for a woman.  Especially when the "government" is a bunch of old white men with bibles up their asses.
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,662
    Here's the thing:

    People in favour of abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I don't know of anyone who is in favor of an abortion, but they are in favor of having a choice.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    tbergs said:
    Here's the thing:

    People in favour of abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I don't know of anyone who is in favor of an abortion, but they are in favor of having a choice.
    There have to be people that are in favor of abortion, or no one would have one.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Here's the thing:

    People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    fixed
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    Here's the thing:

    People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    fixed
    I'll never understand the need for those that support "the right to choose" to run away from actually saying they support abortion. 

    Latest stats in US - 2014 - over 650,000 abortions.  That is not supporting the right to choose, it's supporting abortion.  650,000 of them.  That is AT least 650,000 people that support abortion....not just the right to choose.  Just own it.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Here's the thing:

    People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    fixed
    I'll never understand the need for those that support "the right to choose" to run away from actually saying they support abortion. 

    Latest stats in US - 2014 - over 650,000 abortions.  That is not supporting the right to choose, it's supporting abortion.  650,000 of them.  That is AT least 650,000 people that support abortion....not just the right to choose.  Just own it.

    I will.

    I'm okay with it.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 9,895
    Here's the thing:

    People that support a woman's right to an abortion aren't salivating for the procedures. They have the opinion that some pregnancies are worth terminating given the circumstances around them... and that it has to be left to the woman to decide based on her perspective because she's the expert on 'her' situation.

    I grimace at the idea of gasping fetuses on a surgical table too and this is why I would encourage early decision making- get it done while it is still 'goop'.

    The 'middle way' (in my mind) is a timeline of some sort (arbitrarily... maybe 16 weeks... before voluntary movement occurs?). I think the 'middle way' would also account for special medical circumstances that allow for a later termination if the mother is threatened or the fetus has issues.

    Having said my preferences... I'm okay with a woman's choice no matter what and support them.
    fixed
    I'll never understand the need for those that support "the right to choose" to run away from actually saying they support abortion. 

    Latest stats in US - 2014 - over 650,000 abortions.  That is not supporting the right to choose, it's supporting abortion.  650,000 of them.  That is AT least 650,000 people that support abortion....not just the right to choose.  Just own it.

    I will.

    I'm okay with it.
    Yes you seem to.  I can appreciate it, though obviously don't agree.
    hippiemom = goodness
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