Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?
Comments
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And some on here think the “pro-life until you’re born” crowd would stop if we traded abortion rights for one type of firearm to be banned?
Idaho joins other red states with 'abortion reversal' law - ABC News https://apple.news/AB3MP8NADRVOCVay9XmTq4Q
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But shit like this is happening all over the world: Brexit; Italy's new fascists; the increasing popularity of France's nationalists (National Front party); Merkel's time is up in Germany, paving the way for the nuts in her party to finally come out of the woodwork--the SPD is gasping like a fish out of water--and alter the political bedrock of the continent all while emboldening destructive politicians from other European nations; Costa Rica's (where abortion is illegal) leading presidential candidate is an evangelical who's running on a platform against gay marriage; Brazil's ruling party is executing its opposition; hell, even the Netherlands took a hard right. Where would you go? The cold-as-fuck countries appear to be holding steady to democratic ideals, but who knows how long that will last? The new generation of voters appear to want it this way.my2hands said:If this moronic country of mine ever overturns Roe v Wade I'm fucking out of here, for real
If you figure something out, let me know. We've got all of our passports ready.Post edited by dankind onI SAW PEARL JAM0 -
Halifax2TheMax said:And some on here think the “pro-life until you’re born” crowd would stop if we traded abortion rights for one type of firearm to be banned?
Idaho joins other red states with 'abortion reversal' law - ABC News https://apple.news/AB3MP8NADRVOCVay9XmTq4Q
Yah this is the shitty part of their mentality for sure.
They insist the young, inner city teen has her baby, but then also insists she takes up two minimum wage jobs to provide for the child as it raises itself (lest she need some form of social assistance)."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
So you're saying the end result is the defining feature? I would disagree with that.dignin said:
They may not think that removing a woman's choice is the defining feature of their belief but that is the ultimate end result, I don't know how that can be argued. What someone believes or is their intent is irrelevant, it is the result that matters.mace1229 said:
Brings me back to my earlier comment. you don't understand the views of pro-life if you think the defining feature is removing choice. It is not. The defining feature is preserving life. That argument seems to get lost in every abortion discussion. And if you truly believe the defining feature is just removing choice and restricting rights to women then you do not understand that passion or motivation and logic behind anyone who is pro-life. Why else would women make up half of the pro-life group?oftenreading said:
Anti-choice is accurate, since the defining feature of the argument is removing the choice of abortion for women. I don’t agree with that side identifying themselves as pro-life, because that attempts to claim the moral high ground and define the pro-choice side as anti-life, which it is not.mace1229 said:
I did not intentionally misconstrue your point, I may have misunderstood it.oftenreading said:
No, you’ve totally misunderstood and misconstrued my post. The “placate” comment clearly referred to giving up on fighting for access to health care I’m order to try to get concessions elsewhere. It doesn’t say that’s the reason people may be anti-choice.mace1229 said:
If that is your view on pro-choice vs pro-life then you have missed the mark on this one. I've mentioned it before, and this is one of my biggest pet peeves about this debate. How pro-choicers misrepresent the pro-life side (I know it happens on both sides. But seems to be more common one way).oftenreading said:
Abortion is one of the major dividing issues, it’s true, though I’m not sure I agree with your assessment here. But if it were true, are you suggesting that “let them have it” is a preferred option? Because if you are, you’re willing to give up on a major feature of women’s health and women’s rights just to placate those who want to continue to restrict women’s “place” in society. And I agree with Halifax, it would not end there.MayDay10 said:There will still be a large number of people clinging to guns and bibles, and will eat up when someone like Donald Trump pretends to be a holy roller.... but if the issue of abortion was removed, it would kick the legs out enough where Republicans (as they currently stand) would never win a National election, and also flip a lot of congressional seats.
I have never met anyone who is pro-life because they are to restrict women's right. That person does not exist. Which is why there is not a big gender bag in pro life vs pro choice.
To suggest pro-life exists because "placate those who want to continue to restrict women’s “place” in society." then I would think you have never really listened to a single pro-life argument, ever. But probably just get your pro-life impressions from liberal politicians. I've never heard those accusations more than from liberal politicians who just want to make you believe I am pro-life because I hate women. So why are so many women pro-life then?
I would recommend that everyone seriously sit down and talk with someone from a different point of view, and really listen to them. No matter what the topic is. You can learn a lot from talking to other people. Anyone who thinks pro-life is about restricting women has never done that, or listened to what they have to say.
And I’ve certainly spoken with people who are anti-choice whose reasons centre around controlling women’s reproductive options, so don’t try to argue that those people aren’t out there.
And finally, I didn’t use the term “hate women”. That’s your term, don’t try to project that as my argument.
I didn't say we "hate women," but said that is a common accusation among politicians pushing their pro-choice agenda, they want everyone to believe we are pro-choice because we mistreat women. Instead of focusing on the real reasons and focus on the science behind life, they just accuse anyone who disagrees with them as being sexist.
I would not call someone anti-choice, just like I wouldn't label someone anti-life. That gives me the impression that you are not really open to other's opinions, the only reason to give a negative label like that is to try and dismiss them. Which is in line with my example of politicians and their labels. I could be entirely wrong about that, (and I'm not even trying to say that is really the case) that is just the impression I get from the language used. I mean, would you think anyone was really sincere if they called everyone else anti-life? Probably not.
And of course there are those trying to control women's reproductive organs, that's the whole point being pro-life. But it is the motivation behind it. How many do it because they feel women are inferior, and how many because they want to preserve life. I think the latter reason is much, much more common. The first group would be an insignificant portion. The fact that there are as many pro-life women as men would tend to back that statement up, otherwise it would be completely lopsided (even more women according to many polls)..
No time to respond to the other points right now
I mean no disrespect towards anyone who is pro-choice. I wouldn't ever call them murderers, I know there are some who do, but that isn't helpful or honest. But I recognize that the difference is almost always when does life start. The few suggestions for other reasons like that abortion should be allowed for population control if nothing else is honestly disgusting (which someone suggested a page or two back).
That is why I think it is as accurate to say anti-choice as it is to say anti-life.
The defining feature for those in support of more welfare and unemployment is to raise taxes then, not help support the poor? I would not think so.0 -
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We're doing okay in Canada with this shit, and it appears that we will be for the foreseeable future. Banning abortion isn't even really on the Conservative radar, nor is fascism, and gay marriage is completely non-controversial here; we've had it for years. Come here. It's not cold in Vancouver.dankind said:
But shit like this is happening all over the world: Brexit; Italy's new fascists; the increasing popularity of France's nationalists (National Front party); Merkel's time is up in Germany, paving the way for the nuts in her party to finally come out of the woodwork--the SPD is gasping like a fish out of water--and alter the political bedrock of the continent all while emboldening destructive politicians from other European nations; Costa Rica's (where abortion is illegal) leading presidential candidate is an evangelical whose running on a platform against gay marriage; Brazil's ruling party is executing its opposition; hell, even the Netherlands took a hard right. Where would you go? The cold-as-fuck countries appear to be holding steady to democratic ideals, but who knows how long that will last? The new generation of voters appear to want it this way.my2hands said:If this moronic country of mine ever overturns Roe v Wade I'm fucking out of here, for real
If you figure something out, let me know. We've got all of our passports ready.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
The warmest spot is also the priciest. Damn you, Canada!PJ_Soul said:
We're doing okay in Canada with this shit, and it appears that we will be for the foreseeable future. Banning abortion isn't even really on the Conservative radar, not is fascism, and gay marriage is completely non-controversial here; we've had it for years. Come here. It's not cold in Vancouver.dankind said:
But shit like this is happening all over the world: Brexit; Italy's new fascists; the increasing popularity of France's nationalists (National Front party); Merkel's time is up in Germany, paving the way for the nuts in her party to finally come out of the woodwork--the SPD is gasping like a fish out of water--and alter the political bedrock of the continent all while emboldening destructive politicians from other European nations; Costa Rica's (where abortion is illegal) leading presidential candidate is an evangelical who's running on a platform against gay marriage; Brazil's ruling party is executing its opposition; hell, even the Netherlands took a hard right. Where would you go? The cold-as-fuck countries appear to be holding steady to democratic ideals, but who knows how long that will last? The new generation of voters appear to want it this way.my2hands said:If this moronic country of mine ever overturns Roe v Wade I'm fucking out of here, for real
If you figure something out, let me know. We've got all of our passports ready.
I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
Come to Winnipeg! Its not cold in the summer! (But wear full body netting and bring an electric fly swatter)dankind said:
The warmest spot is also the priciest. Damn you, Canada!PJ_Soul said:
We're doing okay in Canada with this shit, and it appears that we will be for the foreseeable future. Banning abortion isn't even really on the Conservative radar, not is fascism, and gay marriage is completely non-controversial here; we've had it for years. Come here. It's not cold in Vancouver.dankind said:
But shit like this is happening all over the world: Brexit; Italy's new fascists; the increasing popularity of France's nationalists (National Front party); Merkel's time is up in Germany, paving the way for the nuts in her party to finally come out of the woodwork--the SPD is gasping like a fish out of water--and alter the political bedrock of the continent all while emboldening destructive politicians from other European nations; Costa Rica's (where abortion is illegal) leading presidential candidate is an evangelical who's running on a platform against gay marriage; Brazil's ruling party is executing its opposition; hell, even the Netherlands took a hard right. Where would you go? The cold-as-fuck countries appear to be holding steady to democratic ideals, but who knows how long that will last? The new generation of voters appear to want it this way.my2hands said:If this moronic country of mine ever overturns Roe v Wade I'm fucking out of here, for real
If you figure something out, let me know. We've got all of our passports ready.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
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Doesnt a 15 week ban contradict roe v wade? Any ban does. Wouldn't the supreme court always rule in favor of the person who wants the choice?will myself to find a home, a home within myself
we will find a way, we will find our place0 -
Maybe Mississippi shouldbhave a 15 week waiting period in gun sales? Or has that been mentioned?will myself to find a home, a home within myself
we will find a way, we will find our place0 -
One of my favourites from one of my favourite artists!Halifax2TheMax said:'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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dankind said:
On long road trips, I'll go to Alice Cooper every now and then (he's awesome).
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Some facts for those that would prefer abortion be banned.
Criminalizing abortion does not reduce the rate of abortion; it simply increases the risks to pregnant women.
One salient paragraph out of many in the article, below:
The report found that abortions occur as frequently in the two most restrictive categories of countries – such as Malta, where it is banned outright, or Ireland, where it is allowed only to save the woman’s life – as it does in the least restrictive category, where it is allowed no matter what the reason.
What that means is that banning abortion is known to be ineffective in reducing the rate of abortions, and thus is mostly just done out of spite and misguided moral outrage. We already know how to reduce the rate of abortions - provide easily accessible, low cost or free, effective birth control. When you look at this evidence, and compare it to what the right actually does, it's difficult to believe their stated motivation of protecting unborn children.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/21/abortion-rates-drop-dramatically-rich-countries-terminations-study
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Yep, Irish people just go to England. If you want to terminate a pregnancy, the hassle of taking a plane or boat over to England is hardly going to be enough to make you say 'ah jaysus I couldn't be arsed, sure I'll just carry it to term'oftenreading said:Some facts for those that would prefer abortion be banned.
Criminalizing abortion does not reduce the rate of abortion; it simply increases the risks to pregnant women.
One salient paragraph out of many in the article, below:
The report found that abortions occur as frequently in the two most restrictive categories of countries – such as Malta, where it is banned outright, or Ireland, where it is allowed only to save the woman’s life – as it does in the least restrictive category, where it is allowed no matter what the reason.
What that means is that banning abortion is known to be ineffective in reducing the rate of abortions, and thus is mostly just done out of spite and misguided moral outrage. We already know how to reduce the rate of abortions - provide easily accessible, low cost or free, effective birth control. When you look at this evidence, and compare it to what the right actually does, it's difficult to believe their stated motivation of protecting unborn children.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/mar/21/abortion-rates-drop-dramatically-rich-countries-terminations-study0 -
Yes if it is as a result of rape.
No if you were too irresponsible to use contraceptives.Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140 -
Why? It's still a woman's choice regardless of contraceptive use. You're basically taking away choice because therebwere no condoms?Thoughts_Arrive said:Yes if it is as a result of rape.
No if you were too irresponsible to use contraceptives.will myself to find a home, a home within myself
we will find a way, we will find our place0
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