Why do people feel so entitled to 10C tickets?

Kathi · February 2013

sxwxgirl1 wrote:

If I may put in my view I would really appreciate it. (just do not read if it is too long and boring :corn:

I am new to the 10C paid membership, just last year in fact. That does not mean I have not been a LONG time PJ fan. I have paid for tickets all along to see PJ sometimes in seats so bad not only b/c you could not see them, but could barely even hear them. I have never complained, just so thankful to be apart of the PJ experience.

I have also been to EV more intimate smaller solo's (both Montreal's) where the seats I got were awesome one night and not so hot the other, paid full price and again NO complaints..I was there, listening to EV, feeling the entire experience which I still hold to this day.

Only recently a 10C full member because I run a charity (unpaid) and have two fantastic teen Daughters (LOL that are not cheap to raise and after years of watching this site, did I feel I could afford the luxury of the Club as a paid member.

Joining the Club was very special to me, I thought bring me even closer to PJ fans who understand what it is like to be a true PJ lover (In the real World NOT ONE person in my life comes close to the love I have for PJ and EV)

I entered the lottery really hoping that I would win, but full well realizing "it is a lottery, if I don't win..I don't" that is the way lotteries are.

When I found out I won tic's to see them as a 10C member in London, the excitement I felt was like never before, finally a chance to be with PJ "family" who would share the same love, energy at a show (as opposed to some shows I have been at where ppl just sat there beside me texting not even clapping after an amazing set!)

When I won the set of tickets, I immediately reached out to my "PJ "family" (complete strangers) and offered them my extra ticket as I refused to just bring "anyone" (including my own girls who do not love PJ like I do!) as I wanted someone there who would appreciate that ticket as much as I do, and feel just as lucky to be there as I.

After reading some of the negative posts, I will admit I am completely disheartened, I almost feel as though I do not "deserve" to even go to the show as I have a "high #" and now almost feel "shamed" because I won, and wonder if the others around me will point saying "hmm..non deserving winner"

I thought this group would bring me together with PJ members, who were as passionate about the love of PJ as I am...I am not feeling "the love" so too speak in reading some of these posts.

I have paid my dues as a fan for many years in other ways (yes having to use the rotten ticketmaster I despise) I love PJ with all my heart and soul, and feel as though being a 10C member would complete my PJ love with ppl that felt the same.

I did not realize because I only became a member last year "that I am less worthy" to attend a show in the 10C. For which those tickets mean the absolute World to me.

I feel as though I should be apologizing for winning the "lottery", which in itself is a strange feeling to have amongst fellow PJ's.

Don't let the negative people on here put you off this community. Most fans are a really, really nice bunch of people that look out for each other. I've just been to London for a little meet-up with my friends from last summer's tour, which I started by myself but left with many new amazing friendships. I'm sure you'll have the same experience if you go to the pre-party...I promise everyone's happy there!
Hope you get lucky and manage to see them from up close!

O_G_D · February 2013

Any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a fee offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. Sure this does not guarantee you tickets. However it does offer the member the privilege of having the first shot to purchase them. This has been and always was the case with 10 club until now and I suspect that a majority of people became members with that being one of the major reasons. So its very easy to understand peoples frustration especially when it was one way for so long. Sure the others extras are great. But lets be honest none of those other extras hold a candle to being able to get first shot to purchase tickets at least not IMO. It's not so much an entitlement but the opportunity and 10 club members paid for that opportunity previously. We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else. Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

PJ_Soul · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

Any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a fee offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. Sure this does not guarantee you tickets. However it does offer the member the privilege of having the first shot to purchase them. This has been and always was the case with 10 club until now and I suspect that a majority of people became members with that being one of the major reasons. So its very easy to understand peoples frustration especially when it was one way for so long. Sure the others extras are great. But lets be honest none of those other extras hold a candle to being able to get first shot to purchase tickets at least not IMO. It's not so much an entitlement but the opportunity and 10 club members paid for that opportunity previously. We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else. Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

I wouldn't say that a random draw is "picking and choosing". And there are other fan clubs with the same kind of lottery. I simply don't see the difference between this and any other system that offers a certain number of tickets to the club members. Same number of 10C members are getting club tickets either way, so don't understand how the opportunity to get tickets has been diminished.

O_G_D · February 2013

What other fan clubs which require a fee have a lottery to purchase tickets? A random draw is not picking and choosing who gets the right to buy tickets? Explain that to me. I pay a yearly fee for my American express card. One of the main reasons I do so is to get exclusive access to front of the line tickets i.e. The opportunity along with every other paying member to be able to try and purchase tickets for an event from an even playing field within that pool. Sure this is not a guarantee, but this is the right that I pay extra for. How has the right to get tickets not been diminished? Don't win the lottery you don't have the right. I would call that abolished not diminished. Anyways its a difference of opinion and nothing to get worked up over. However I do feel strongly about my side of this issue. And its a tough pill to swallow for someone who has always been able to secure tickets as a 10 club member before for the shows that I wanted and this was a major selling point on continuing paying for the membership. Don't get me wrong the other extras are great and I will continue to be a member, however that was a huge selling point for me and I am sure many other members.

So it can't be a surprise to anyone that some people may be extremely turned off by this. You purchase a product i.e. The 10 Club membership with an expectation of having an equal opportunity to purchase pre-sale tickets amongst the membership pool before the general public. Then they go and change the fine print on you........ Now your name has to be drawn out of a hat for that right.......... Still call bogus but it looks like whats done is done unfortunately IMO.

SolarWorld · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else.

Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

If you knew much about the network infrastructure of the internet you would know that first part of your comment is not even close to reality. The Ten Club has thrown money and tech at ticket sales, and they still break. And people still complain. Your second statement is confusing, every eligible member that wanted to try for tickets GOT the chance to try for them. The tenclub agreement says nothing about guaranteeing anyone anything but the merch. Why is this so hard to understand for people?

Supply < Demand. End of story.

Lottery removes the networking problems that costs the band extra money. So you dont get to do you "ritual" that you think helps you get tickets. Just to let everyone know, your little tricks and multiple browser windows and little dances you perform has little to do with your luck with ticket sales. Really, take some data networking classes if you really want to understand what happens when a request is made over the internet. You cant just "Upgrade the Servers" to make things run better. Its a massive expensive headache to run a sales like this on Ten Club's level. They don't own servers and they don't have IT specialists writing specific network code for their e-commerce site. This crap costs more money than most of you make in a year to maintain. I am actually surprised they haven't done the lottery change sooner.

SolarWorld · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

What other fan clubs which require a fee have a lottery to purchase tickets? A random draw is not picking and choosing who gets the right to buy tickets? Explain that to me. I pay a yearly fee for my American express card. One of the main reasons I do so is to get exclusive access to front of the line tickets i.e. The opportunity along with every other paying member to be able to try and purchase tickets for an event from an even playing field within that pool. Sure this is not a guarantee, but this is the right that I pay extra for. How has the right to get tickets not been diminished? Don't win the lottery you don't have the right. I would call that abolished not diminished. Anyways its a difference of opinion and nothing to get worked up over. However I do feel strongly about my side of this issue. And its a tough pill to swallow for someone who has always been able to secure tickets as a 10 club member before for the shows that I wanted and this was a major selling point on continuing paying for the membership. Don't get me wrong the other extras are great and I will continue to be a member, however that was a huge selling point for me and I am sure many other members.

So it can't be a surprise to anyone that some people may be extremely turned off by this. You purchase a product i.e. The 10 Club membership with an expectation of having an equal opportunity to purchase pre-sale tickets amongst the membership pool before the general public. Then they go and change the fine print on you........ Now your name has to be drawn out of a hat for that right.......... Still call bogus but it looks like whats done is done unfortunately IMO.

You had no problem with the method when you gave them your order... you agreed to the "fine print" as you say by giving them your CC#. The only reason you have a problem with it is because you weren't picked. Were you upset when they ran the test when they TOLD us about the lottery system?

PJ_Soul · February 2013

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else.

Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

If you knew much about the network infrastructure of the internet you would know that first part of your comment is not even close to reality. The Ten Club has thrown money and tech at ticket sales, and they still break. And people still complain. Your second statement is confusing, every eligible member that wanted to try for tickets to GOT the chance to try for them. The tenclub agreement says nothing about guaranteeing anyone anything but the merch. Why is this so hard to understand for people?

Supply < Demand. End of story.

Lottery removes the networking problems that costs the band extra money. So you dont get to do you "ritual" that you think helps you get tickets. Just to let everyone know, your little tricks and multiple browser windows and little dances you perform has little to do with your luck with ticket sales. Really, take some data networking classes if you really want to understand what happens when a request is made over the internet. You cant just "Upgrade the Servers" to make things run better. Its a massive expensive headache to run a sales like this on Ten Club's level. They don't own servers and they don't have IT specialists writing specific network code for their e-commerce site. This crap costs more money than most of you make in a year to maintain. I am actually surprised they haven't done the lottery change sooner.

Good points. Isn't 10C just a few people in a small warehouse?? I think some people are overestimating their capabilities or scope.

PJ_Soul · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

What other fan clubs which require a fee have a lottery to purchase tickets? A random draw is not picking and choosing who gets the right to buy tickets? Explain that to me. I pay a yearly fee for my American express card. One of the main reasons I do so is to get exclusive access to front of the line tickets i.e. The opportunity along with every other paying member to be able to try and purchase tickets for an event from an even playing field within that pool. Sure this is not a guarantee, but this is the right that I pay extra for. How has the right to get tickets not been diminished? Don't win the lottery you don't have the right. I would call that abolished not diminished. Anyways its a difference of opinion and nothing to get worked up over. However I do feel strongly about my side of this issue. And its a tough pill to swallow for someone who has always been able to secure tickets as a 10 club member before for the shows that I wanted and this was a major selling point on continuing paying for the membership. Don't get me wrong the other extras are great and I will continue to be a member, however that was a huge selling point for me and I am sure many other members.

So it can't be a surprise to anyone that some people may be extremely turned off by this. You purchase a product i.e. The 10 Club membership with an expectation of having an equal opportunity to purchase pre-sale tickets amongst the membership pool before the general public. Then they go and change the fine print on you........ Now your name has to be drawn out of a hat for that right.......... Still call bogus but it looks like whats done is done unfortunately IMO.

I think the Phish fan club does a lottery.
"Picking and choosing" to me means actually making choices and picking specific people. Not random.
Having the "right"? I really don't see the difference. You can just as easily say that you didn't have the "right" to buy tickets if you get shut out of a sale that you F5 for all day. Either way, some people get tix, and some people don't. You either have equal opportunity to buy tickets, or equal opportunity to get drawn in the lottery (for which we had equal opportunity to enter). In the end, it's still all equal and the same number of people score tix.

SolarWorld · February 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

Good points. Isn't 10C just a few people in a small warehouse?? I think some people are overestimating their capabilities or scope.

Yeah, completely. People have no idea what bulletproof networking costs.

shortstack · February 2013

SolarWorld wrote:

The tenclub agreement says nothing about guaranteeing anyone anything but the merch. Why is this so hard to understand for people?

it says that now, but in the old days it was implied differently

O_G_D · February 2013

You had no problem with the method when you gave them your order... you agreed to the "fine print" as you say by giving them your CC#. The only reason you have a problem with it is because you weren't picked. Were you upset when they ran the test when they TOLD us about the lottery system?[/quote]

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred an open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

Yes I'm upset I was not picked. I lost on London and Chicago plus on all the fictional shows to test the new system. This is not what I remember being a 10 club member being all about and its very disconcerting and I do not like or enjoy going through this process. Also I think an argument could be made that his system is much more open to more corruption than the previous one. Very little if no transparency here. But whatever I'm glad the 10 clubs life is made easier and mine not.......

SolarWorld · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

SolarWorld · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

Also I think an argument could be made that his system is much more open to more corruption than the previous one. Very little if no transparency here.

How would that argument be formed? Ten Club is a bunch of liars and should not be trusted they are randomly choosing names? Seriously, How does that work? Anyone person that knows something about DOS can bring down and online tenclub sale no problem, it already happened once, at least. The Ten Club does not exist to make your life easier. Remember there are people on the other side of this too, they are just doing their jobs the best way they see fit. They are not trying to screw you out of tickets. And for every sob story there is another of "OMG I just got tickets to see PJ, I've never seen them before!!!, or its been years since I have been able to!" etc etc.... share the PJ bro...

O_G_D · February 2013

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

If someone buys season tickets to any team and that team makes the post season. Have a guess who gets first chance to purchase those post-season tickets? Do you think they are subject to a lottery? Or are the sold on a first come first serve basis to existing season ticket holders? The Montana show was very different and you know it............ There is nothing wrong with rewarding loyalty and continued patronage. It's why people come back and it's a stellar business model. 10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

SolarWorld · February 2013

And no one is stopping you from going to either one of these shows, Wrigley holds what 40,000 in the seats alone? If you want to be in the building you will find a way to. There is even a great chance you'll find a extra ten club ticket! Then this stupid lottery outcome will be a distant memory...

PJ_Soul · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

If someone buys season tickets to any team and that team makes the post season. Have a guess who gets first chance to purchase those post-season tickets? Do you think they are subject to a lottery? Or are the sold on a first come first serve basis to existing season ticket holders? The Montana show was very different and you know it............ There is nothing wrong with rewarding loyalty and continued patronage. It's why people come back and it's a stellar business model. 10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

For them that model doesn't work. They can't continue to block out new fans and have all the same people up front forever. That would be a very POOR business decision. They don't just want people to come back - they want NEW fans too. A sports team is not comparable to a rock band at all, because sports are on TV! PJ concerts are not! Also, half of any team's games are in the same place, and their fans are mostly from that place, so 95% of the fans are local for the event and get many opportunities to go to a game near their home every single year. It make ZERO sense to compare these business models!

JimmyV · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

SolarWorld · February 2013

O_G_D wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

If someone buys season tickets to any team and that team makes the post season. Have a guess who gets first chance to purchase those post-season tickets? Do you think they are subject to a lottery? Or are the sold on a first come first serve basis to existing season ticket holders? The Montana show was very different and you know it............ There is nothing wrong with rewarding loyalty and continued patronage. It's why people come back and it's a stellar business model. 10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

You dont buy season tickets from the ten club, you join the club "with the opportunity" for access to a limited pool of tickets. This isn't even close to season tickets! How does that even make the slightest bit a sense? How was Montana different too both are cases of Supply < Demand... very simple concepts here you are over complicating just because you didn't get picked.

100 Pacer · February 2013

Next month I'll be entering my 17th year in the fan club. And all I have to say is...

Gimme!

Gimme!

Gimme!

Fatal Smile · February 2013

Thanks for posting this. Some 10C members need to do a reality check - YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED!!!

I have been lucky and fortunate to get 10C tickets to all the PJ shows I have been to (including Wrigley), and I wouldn't be one bit pissed at PJ or 10C if I didn't get 10C tix, do you know why? I DON'T FEEL ONE BIT ENTITLED!!

Just like anything else, there is supply and demand and unfortunately the demand outweighs the supply for most of these shows.

We are all lucky that we have a band that has lasted all these years and continue to have such a great fan base.

Why do people feel so entitled to 10C tickets?

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