Why do people feel so entitled to 10C tickets?

weekapaug19

sxwxgirl1 wrote:

If I may put in my view I would really appreciate it. (just do not read if it is too long and boring :corn:

I am new to the 10C paid membership, just last year in fact. That does not mean I have not been a LONG time PJ fan. I have paid for tickets all along to see PJ sometimes in seats so bad not only b/c you could not see them, but could barely even hear them. I have never complained, just so thankful to be apart of the PJ experience.

I have also been to EV more intimate smaller solo's (both Montreal's) where the seats I got were awesome one night and not so hot the other, paid full price and again NO complaints..I was there, listening to EV, feeling the entire experience which I still hold to this day.

Only recently a 10C full member because I run a charity (unpaid) and have two fantastic teen Daughters (LOL that are not cheap to raise and after years of watching this site, did I feel I could afford the luxury of the Club as a paid member.

Joining the Club was very special to me, I thought bring me even closer to PJ fans who understand what it is like to be a true PJ lover (In the real World NOT ONE person in my life comes close to the love I have for PJ and EV)

I entered the lottery really hoping that I would win, but full well realizing "it is a lottery, if I don't win..I don't" that is the way lotteries are.

When I found out I won tic's to see them as a 10C member in London, the excitement I felt was like never before, finally a chance to be with PJ "family" who would share the same love, energy at a show (as opposed to some shows I have been at where ppl just sat there beside me texting not even clapping after an amazing set!)

When I won the set of tickets, I immediately reached out to my "PJ "family" (complete strangers) and offered them my extra ticket as I refused to just bring "anyone" (including my own girls who do not love PJ like I do!) as I wanted someone there who would appreciate that ticket as much as I do, and feel just as lucky to be there as I.

After reading some of the negative posts, I will admit I am completely disheartened, I almost feel as though I do not "deserve" to even go to the show as I have a "high #" and now almost feel "shamed" because I won, and wonder if the others around me will point saying "hmm..non deserving winner"

I thought this group would bring me together with PJ members, who were as passionate about the love of PJ as I am...I am not feeling "the love" so too speak in reading some of these posts.

I have paid my dues as a fan for many years in other ways (yes having to use the rotten ticketmaster I despise) I love PJ with all my heart and soul, and feel as though being a 10C member would complete my PJ love with ppl that felt the same.

I did not realize because I only became a member last year "that I am less worthy" to attend a show in the 10C. For which those tickets mean the absolute World to me.

I feel as though I should be apologizing for winning the "lottery", which in itself is a strange feeling to have amongst fellow PJ's.

i hope you win the lottery for 1st or 2nd row tickets...enjoy the show

BL176748

butte1 wrote:

BL176748 wrote:

I've honestly not seen a single person make even a semi-legitimate argument as to why they 'should' get tickets to every show simply because they decided to become a 10C member....and there are currently and literally hundreds of posts in here trying to do just that. Where they got this idea from is a complete and utter mystery. Did people honestly believe there was some kind of argreement where as long as you paid your yearly fee you were entitled to tickets for every show you may have ever wanted to attend? This isn't true in any other scenario on the planet. Even more bizarre are those that seem to be so filled with self absorbed delusion that they believe the adult members of a band that has been together for over 20 years somehow owes them something more than they have already provided. It's bizarre and quite frankly has lessened my opinon of Pearl Jam fans in general. For some reason I had asumed most were hard working adults with lives of their own. People who were intelligent and capable enough to deal with the realites of life, business, art, fandom, disappointment etc. Where they got the idea this entire journey was about them and their self-serving desires is astonshing.

Oh well...the good news is that me and my wife got lucky and will be there and I know that those that will be there with us are not the same group I simply wouldn't want anywhere near me for this thing in the first place.

I don;t think I deserve tickets. I do think I deserve a fair system for getting them though. This so called lottery was not a fair system. The reason being was the "tiered" ranking system that few understood going in. It was a screw job from that perspective. I haven't seen any threads saying people think they "deserved tickets" what I have seen is people think that a lottery system with this stupid ranking Tier monkey wrench thrown into it is not a good syste,. . Old timers believe merit based acquisition to tickets is fari, newbies like lottery because then they can get the same thing the old timers get with out havign to work for it. It's sort of like Dems and Republicans really if you think about it....

I'm not trying to be combative and please correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't you saying that you believe you 'old timers' 'deserve' to get tickets before anyone that may have joined a band's fan club after you did?

'Merit based' access I believe you called it.

Just for clarification purposes I have been in for over 15 years. So even though I know there are countless others with a lower number than I have I sure as hell don't believed I have somehow worked harder at being a 10C member than anyone that may have simlpy joined after I did. It doesn't make me any more of fan than having more posts on this forum does. People have lives and kids and jobs and real world issues. It doesn't make them inferior to anyone based soley on when they decided to join some fan club.

I hate that you missed out this time around and hope you hit it out of the park the next time but I still haven't heard a legitimate reason why people believe that THEY deserve tickets over anybody else in this particular scenario at this particular one off special event.

F Me In The Brain

weekapaug19 wrote:

sxwxgirl1 wrote:

If I may put in my view I would really appreciate it. (just do not read if it is too long and boring :corn:

I am new to the 10C paid membership, just last year in fact. That does not mean I have not been a LONG time PJ fan. I have paid for tickets all along to see PJ sometimes in seats so bad not only b/c you could not see them, but could barely even hear them. I have never complained, just so thankful to be apart of the PJ experience.

I have also been to EV more intimate smaller solo's (both Montreal's) where the seats I got were awesome one night and not so hot the other, paid full price and again NO complaints..I was there, listening to EV, feeling the entire experience which I still hold to this day.

Only recently a 10C full member because I run a charity (unpaid) and have two fantastic teen Daughters (LOL that are not cheap to raise and after years of watching this site, did I feel I could afford the luxury of the Club as a paid member.

Joining the Club was very special to me, I thought bring me even closer to PJ fans who understand what it is like to be a true PJ lover (In the real World NOT ONE person in my life comes close to the love I have for PJ and EV)

I entered the lottery really hoping that I would win, but full well realizing "it is a lottery, if I don't win..I don't" that is the way lotteries are.

When I found out I won tic's to see them as a 10C member in London, the excitement I felt was like never before, finally a chance to be with PJ "family" who would share the same love, energy at a show (as opposed to some shows I have been at where ppl just sat there beside me texting not even clapping after an amazing set!)

When I won the set of tickets, I immediately reached out to my "PJ "family" (complete strangers) and offered them my extra ticket as I refused to just bring "anyone" (including my own girls who do not love PJ like I do!) as I wanted someone there who would appreciate that ticket as much as I do, and feel just as lucky to be there as I.

After reading some of the negative posts, I will admit I am completely disheartened, I almost feel as though I do not "deserve" to even go to the show as I have a "high #" and now almost feel "shamed" because I won, and wonder if the others around me will point saying "hmm..non deserving winner"

I thought this group would bring me together with PJ members, who were as passionate about the love of PJ as I am...I am not feeling "the love" so too speak in reading some of these posts.

I have paid my dues as a fan for many years in other ways (yes having to use the rotten ticketmaster I despise) I love PJ with all my heart and soul, and feel as though being a 10C member would complete my PJ love with ppl that felt the same.

I did not realize because I only became a member last year "that I am less worthy" to attend a show in the 10C. For which those tickets mean the absolute World to me.

I feel as though I should be apologizing for winning the "lottery", which in itself is a strange feeling to have amongst fellow PJ's.

i hope you win the lottery for 1st or 2nd row tickets...enjoy the show

I also hope you win stellar tickets.
This community is what you thought it was on the whole. Some are disappointed and feel slighted but please dont let that move your needle on what a crazy bunch of cool fans this group is mostly made up of. Having seen many posts from some of the people who are vocal about their dissatisfaction with the new process, I can add that many of these folks seem like they are great people....they are just bummed out right not.
(This old 10C vs. everyone that joined after a certain date argument happens every once in a while, usually around tickets/limited merch items. Don't let it bug you - you will realize much more than you expected your membership fees to get you if you hang out here a bit longer. Some see this is a venue for tickets but most have the same sort of mindset you do.)

butte1

BL176748 wrote:

butte1 wrote:

BL176748 wrote:

I've honestly not seen a single person make even a semi-legitimate argument as to why they 'should' get tickets to every show simply because they decided to become a 10C member....and there are currently and literally hundreds of posts in here trying to do just that. Where they got this idea from is a complete and utter mystery. Did people honestly believe there was some kind of argreement where as long as you paid your yearly fee you were entitled to tickets for every show you may have ever wanted to attend? This isn't true in any other scenario on the planet. Even more bizarre are those that seem to be so filled with self absorbed delusion that they believe the adult members of a band that has been together for over 20 years somehow owes them something more than they have already provided. It's bizarre and quite frankly has lessened my opinon of Pearl Jam fans in general. For some reason I had asumed most were hard working adults with lives of their own. People who were intelligent and capable enough to deal with the realites of life, business, art, fandom, disappointment etc. Where they got the idea this entire journey was about them and their self-serving desires is astonshing.

Oh well...the good news is that me and my wife got lucky and will be there and I know that those that will be there with us are not the same group I simply wouldn't want anywhere near me for this thing in the first place.

I don;t think I deserve tickets. I do think I deserve a fair system for getting them though. This so called lottery was not a fair system. The reason being was the "tiered" ranking system that few understood going in. It was a screw job from that perspective. I haven't seen any threads saying people think they "deserved tickets" what I have seen is people think that a lottery system with this stupid ranking Tier monkey wrench thrown into it is not a good syste,. . Old timers believe merit based acquisition to tickets is fari, newbies like lottery because then they can get the same thing the old timers get with out havign to work for it. It's sort of like Dems and Republicans really if you think about it....

I'm not trying to be combative and please correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't you saying that you believe you 'old timers' 'deserve' to get tickets before anyone that may have joined a band's fan club after you did?

'Merit based' access I believe you called it.

Just for clarification purposes I have been in for over 15 years. So even though I know there are countless others with a lower number than I have I sure as hell don't believed I have somehow worked harder at being a 10C member than anyone that may have simlpy joined after I did. It doesn't make me any more of fan than having more posts on this forum does. People have lives and kids and jobs and real world issues. It doesn't make them inferior to anyone based soley on when they decided to join some fan club.

I hate that you missed out this time around and hope you hit it out of the park the next time but I still haven't heard a legitimate reason why people believe that THEY deserve tickets over anybody else in this particular scenario at this particular one off special event.

You choose to hear what you want to hear, again I never said I DESERVED tickets under this or any other system. I jsut don;t think this is the right system. I believe in the first come first serve system personally and then after that you can employ senority for ticket placement. I never have liked lotteries and never will. I still have yet to hear a legitimate reason of why lotteries are good...

Eroom21

I have no idea why people keep talking about seniority in relation to getting tickets. Seniority only matted once you got tickets, it never helped or mattered when trying to get tickets. So stop bring up bullshit about not being born at this time and deserving to see the band. The guy with membership number one had the same chance as the newest member.

Like other people have said I pay for the opportunity to buy tickets, not for the opportunity to enter a lottery. 10C doesn't want to pay to upgrade their servers, so we are punished. However, like some people have mentioned, the PJ20 show wan an anomaly. I didn't try to get tickets for that show, but I was trying to get tickets for other shows on sale at the same time, and that was the only time I had to F5 like mad.

Maybe 10C can compromise, use a lottery system for shows in huge markets, but just use the old system for other shows. The band knows that their fans travel and go to multiple shows, that's why they have a different setlist every night. But this new lottery system is going to have a huge impact on how many shows 10c members go to.

PJ_Soul

Eroom21 wrote:

I have no idea why people keep talking about seniority in relation to getting tickets. Seniority only matted once you got tickets, it never helped or mattered when trying to get tickets. So stop bring up bullshit about not being born at this time and deserving to see the band. The guy with membership number one had the same chance as the newest member.

Like other people have said I pay for the opportunity to buy tickets, not for the opportunity to enter a lottery. 10C doesn't want to pay to upgrade their servers, so we are punished. However, like some people have mentioned, the PJ20 show wan an anomaly. I didn't try to get tickets for that show, but I was trying to get tickets for other shows on sale at the same time, and that was the only time I had to F5 like mad.

Maybe 10C can compromise, use a lottery system for shows in huge markets, but just use the old system for other shows. The band knows that their fans travel and go to multiple shows, that's why they have a different setlist every night. But this new lottery system is going to have a huge impact on how many shows 10c members go to.

How would the lottery system have an impact on how many shows 10C members go to? There is still the same amount of tickets available to 10C members, so the same amount of 10C members will be at the shows, and any of us can get to any show we want to get to. I.e. I did not not win in the lottery, but I'm still going to be at Wrigley. If someone gives up on getting tickets just because they didn't win the 10C lottery, then they don't want to go very badly, so who cares?

asgoodased

People feel entitled to 10C tickets because membership in the 10C has, for most of its existence at least, nearly guaranteed access to 10C tickets. It's why I joined in 1996 or whenever it was. It's why I still paid my membership fee when it went up from 5 to 10, then 10 to 20, then 20 to what it is now. I think people realize the wording has changed from "first tickets available" to "a chance at the first tickets available", but people still feel like they pay for this service.

I know its because there is a much larger fan base now, and that's the real reason, but fan club members now pay more than they ever did and get less. It's supply vs demand, though, and I recognize that, and I'm a consumer so I ultimately get to make the final choice of whether it's worth it or not. In my opinion, once I can no longer get preferential seats for my hometown show, that's when my membership stops being useful, and I'll probably stop being a member. (que the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts). I'm not trying to complain, or ask for change, or whatever. They're doing what they think is best, and I'll do what I think is best for me as a consumer.

PJ_Soul

asgoodased wrote:

People feel entitled to 10C tickets because membership in the 10C has, for most of its existence at least, nearly guaranteed access to 10C tickets. It's why I joined in 1996 or whenever it was. It's why I still paid my membership fee when it went up from 5 to 10, then 10 to 20, then 20 to what it is now. I think people realize the wording has changed from "first tickets available" to "a chance at the first tickets available", but people still feel like they pay for this service.

I know its because there is a much larger fan base now, and that's the real reason, but fan club members now pay more than they ever did and get less. It's supply vs demand, though, and I recognize that, and I'm a consumer so I ultimately get to make the final choice of whether it's worth it or not. In my opinion, once I can no longer get preferential seats for my hometown show, that's when my membership stops being useful, and I'll probably stop being a member. (que the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts). I'm not trying to complain, or ask for change, or whatever. They're doing what they think is best, and I'll do what I think is best for me as a consumer.

Fair enough.
I personally get a lot out of this membership - frankly, actually personally getting 10C tickets is lower on my priority list, just because I will still be able to attend whatever show I want to attend one way or another. I really pay the fee for access to member-only sales, access to the forum, and the holiday single and 10C gift. 10C tickets are awesome to have a chance at in some cases for me (i.e., being able to try for 10C-only or early entry GA tix, which I did not get directly for MT or CHI, and I sure wish I had won the lottery, but a lot of people wanted those tix! I'm not lucky!), but seriously, with a number like mine, I'd rather not get reserved seating 10C tix - I'd just end up in the nose bleeds for as long as the band continues to perform. I'd much prefer to find ticket buddies or buy from the public sale because of my shitty number. If seniority for seats went away, the 10C ticket sales would matter a lot more to me. So yay - I'm a very happy paying customer, because the club is meeting my personal needs aside from the seniority issue.

But if some are ONLY paying the membership fee because they want guaranteed 10C tix, then I can see why they would want to leave. If someone isn't getting what they want from something they are paying for, then it makes no sense to pay for it. You're right - it's just about whether or not a product is working for you; completely our personal choice as to whether or not we want to pay for it. I mean, when I go to a restaurant and think the food is a rip off and didn't taste good, I don't keep coming back and complain to the management each time about how shitty the place is. I just don't go back to the restaurant. Even if I really really wish they had better food, because the atmosphere is really nice. I don't see how it's any different in this case. There aren't enough 10C tix for everyone, so I don't really understand how people expect to be guaranteed 10C tickets for every show they want to go to; it just doesn't make sense... But if for some reason that is still your expectation, your expectation is not going to be met with this fair system of giving everyone a shot at competing for tix.

asgoodased

PJ_Soul wrote:

asgoodased wrote:

People feel entitled to 10C tickets because membership in the 10C has, for most of its existence at least, nearly guaranteed access to 10C tickets. It's why I joined in 1996 or whenever it was. It's why I still paid my membership fee when it went up from 5 to 10, then 10 to 20, then 20 to what it is now. I think people realize the wording has changed from "first tickets available" to "a chance at the first tickets available", but people still feel like they pay for this service.

I know its because there is a much larger fan base now, and that's the real reason, but fan club members now pay more than they ever did and get less. It's supply vs demand, though, and I recognize that, and I'm a consumer so I ultimately get to make the final choice of whether it's worth it or not. In my opinion, once I can no longer get preferential seats for my hometown show, that's when my membership stops being useful, and I'll probably stop being a member. (que the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts). I'm not trying to complain, or ask for change, or whatever. They're doing what they think is best, and I'll do what I think is best for me as a consumer.

Fair enough.
I personally get a lot out of this membership - frankly, actually personally getting 10C tickets is lower on my priority list, just because I will still be able to attend whatever show I want to attend one way or another. I really pay the fee for access to member-only sales, access to the forum, and the holiday single and 10C gift. 10C tickets are awesome to have a chance at in some cases for me (i.e., being able to try for 10C-only or early entry GA tix, which I did not get directly for MT or CHI, and I sure wish I had won the lottery, but a lot of people wanted those tix! I'm not lucky!), but seriously, with a number like mine, I'd rather not get reserved seating 10C tix - I'd just end up in the nose bleeds for as long as the band continues to perform. I'd much prefer to find ticket buddies or buy from the public sale because of my shitty number. If seniority for seats went away, the 10C ticket sales would matter a lot more to me. So yay - I'm a very happy paying customer, because the club is meeting my personal needs aside from the seniority issue.

But if some are ONLY paying the membership fee because they want guaranteed 10C tix, then I can see why they would want to leave. If someone isn't getting what they want from something they are paying for, then it makes no sense to pay for it. You're right - it's just about whether or not a product is working for you; completely our personal choice as to whether or not we want to pay for it. I mean, when I go to a restaurant and think the food is a rip off and didn't taste good, I don't keep coming back and complain to the management each time about how shitty the place is. I just don't go back to the restaurant. Even if I really really wish they had better food, because the atmosphere is really nice. I don't see how it's any different in this case.

Yeah, I used to really look forward to the fan club single and the newsletter, I suppose I still do. But you kind of hit the nail on the head as far as tickets go...if I can get the same level seats through ticketmaster as I can through the 10C, then why pay extra (if that's what you're in it for)? I have a decent number and usually get between rows 2-15, and I'm very, very grateful for those experiences. But I'm not going to pay 40 bucks a year and hope there is a show in my area, and then hope I win a lottery seat, and then hope it's a decent seat.

I'm not trying to whine, its just the unfortunate reality of getting older and having to shift priorities. It is really cool to see newer "blood" in the sections up front and I hope they go nuts and the band feeds off that. If I want to bitch at someone I suppose I should bitch at all the newer members who, damnit, really want to see pearl jam too! Bastards!

Have fun at the shows everyone....

shortstack

...because they used to send things like this!








http://s1337.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... state=copy

Kathi

sxwxgirl1 wrote:

If I may put in my view I would really appreciate it. (just do not read if it is too long and boring :corn:

I am new to the 10C paid membership, just last year in fact. That does not mean I have not been a LONG time PJ fan. I have paid for tickets all along to see PJ sometimes in seats so bad not only b/c you could not see them, but could barely even hear them. I have never complained, just so thankful to be apart of the PJ experience.

I have also been to EV more intimate smaller solo's (both Montreal's) where the seats I got were awesome one night and not so hot the other, paid full price and again NO complaints..I was there, listening to EV, feeling the entire experience which I still hold to this day.

Only recently a 10C full member because I run a charity (unpaid) and have two fantastic teen Daughters (LOL that are not cheap to raise and after years of watching this site, did I feel I could afford the luxury of the Club as a paid member.

Joining the Club was very special to me, I thought bring me even closer to PJ fans who understand what it is like to be a true PJ lover (In the real World NOT ONE person in my life comes close to the love I have for PJ and EV)

I entered the lottery really hoping that I would win, but full well realizing "it is a lottery, if I don't win..I don't" that is the way lotteries are.

When I found out I won tic's to see them as a 10C member in London, the excitement I felt was like never before, finally a chance to be with PJ "family" who would share the same love, energy at a show (as opposed to some shows I have been at where ppl just sat there beside me texting not even clapping after an amazing set!)

When I won the set of tickets, I immediately reached out to my "PJ "family" (complete strangers) and offered them my extra ticket as I refused to just bring "anyone" (including my own girls who do not love PJ like I do!) as I wanted someone there who would appreciate that ticket as much as I do, and feel just as lucky to be there as I.

After reading some of the negative posts, I will admit I am completely disheartened, I almost feel as though I do not "deserve" to even go to the show as I have a "high #" and now almost feel "shamed" because I won, and wonder if the others around me will point saying "hmm..non deserving winner"

I thought this group would bring me together with PJ members, who were as passionate about the love of PJ as I am...I am not feeling "the love" so too speak in reading some of these posts.

I have paid my dues as a fan for many years in other ways (yes having to use the rotten ticketmaster I despise) I love PJ with all my heart and soul, and feel as though being a 10C member would complete my PJ love with ppl that felt the same.

I did not realize because I only became a member last year "that I am less worthy" to attend a show in the 10C. For which those tickets mean the absolute World to me.

I feel as though I should be apologizing for winning the "lottery", which in itself is a strange feeling to have amongst fellow PJ's.

Don't let the negative people on here put you off this community. Most fans are a really, really nice bunch of people that look out for each other. I've just been to London for a little meet-up with my friends from last summer's tour, which I started by myself but left with many new amazing friendships. I'm sure you'll have the same experience if you go to the pre-party...I promise everyone's happy there!
Hope you get lucky and manage to see them from up close!

O_G_D

Any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a fee offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. Sure this does not guarantee you tickets. However it does offer the member the privilege of having the first shot to purchase them. This has been and always was the case with 10 club until now and I suspect that a majority of people became members with that being one of the major reasons. So its very easy to understand peoples frustration especially when it was one way for so long. Sure the others extras are great. But lets be honest none of those other extras hold a candle to being able to get first shot to purchase tickets at least not IMO. It's not so much an entitlement but the opportunity and 10 club members paid for that opportunity previously. We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else. Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

PJ_Soul

O_G_D wrote:

Any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a fee offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. Sure this does not guarantee you tickets. However it does offer the member the privilege of having the first shot to purchase them. This has been and always was the case with 10 club until now and I suspect that a majority of people became members with that being one of the major reasons. So its very easy to understand peoples frustration especially when it was one way for so long. Sure the others extras are great. But lets be honest none of those other extras hold a candle to being able to get first shot to purchase tickets at least not IMO. It's not so much an entitlement but the opportunity and 10 club members paid for that opportunity previously. We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else. Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

I wouldn't say that a random draw is "picking and choosing". And there are other fan clubs with the same kind of lottery. I simply don't see the difference between this and any other system that offers a certain number of tickets to the club members. Same number of 10C members are getting club tickets either way, so don't understand how the opportunity to get tickets has been diminished.

O_G_D

What other fan clubs which require a fee have a lottery to purchase tickets? A random draw is not picking and choosing who gets the right to buy tickets? Explain that to me. I pay a yearly fee for my American express card. One of the main reasons I do so is to get exclusive access to front of the line tickets i.e. The opportunity along with every other paying member to be able to try and purchase tickets for an event from an even playing field within that pool. Sure this is not a guarantee, but this is the right that I pay extra for. How has the right to get tickets not been diminished? Don't win the lottery you don't have the right. I would call that abolished not diminished. Anyways its a difference of opinion and nothing to get worked up over. However I do feel strongly about my side of this issue. And its a tough pill to swallow for someone who has always been able to secure tickets as a 10 club member before for the shows that I wanted and this was a major selling point on continuing paying for the membership. Don't get me wrong the other extras are great and I will continue to be a member, however that was a huge selling point for me and I am sure many other members.

So it can't be a surprise to anyone that some people may be extremely turned off by this. You purchase a product i.e. The 10 Club membership with an expectation of having an equal opportunity to purchase pre-sale tickets amongst the membership pool before the general public. Then they go and change the fine print on you........ Now your name has to be drawn out of a hat for that right.......... Still call bogus but it looks like whats done is done unfortunately IMO.

SolarWorld

O_G_D wrote:

We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else.

Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

If you knew much about the network infrastructure of the internet you would know that first part of your comment is not even close to reality. The Ten Club has thrown money and tech at ticket sales, and they still break. And people still complain. Your second statement is confusing, every eligible member that wanted to try for tickets GOT the chance to try for them. The tenclub agreement says nothing about guaranteeing anyone anything but the merch. Why is this so hard to understand for people?

Supply < Demand. End of story.

Lottery removes the networking problems that costs the band extra money. So you dont get to do you "ritual" that you think helps you get tickets. Just to let everyone know, your little tricks and multiple browser windows and little dances you perform has little to do with your luck with ticket sales. Really, take some data networking classes if you really want to understand what happens when a request is made over the internet. You cant just "Upgrade the Servers" to make things run better. Its a massive expensive headache to run a sales like this on Ten Club's level. They don't own servers and they don't have IT specialists writing specific network code for their e-commerce site. This crap costs more money than most of you make in a year to maintain. I am actually surprised they haven't done the lottery change sooner.

SolarWorld

O_G_D wrote:

What other fan clubs which require a fee have a lottery to purchase tickets? A random draw is not picking and choosing who gets the right to buy tickets? Explain that to me. I pay a yearly fee for my American express card. One of the main reasons I do so is to get exclusive access to front of the line tickets i.e. The opportunity along with every other paying member to be able to try and purchase tickets for an event from an even playing field within that pool. Sure this is not a guarantee, but this is the right that I pay extra for. How has the right to get tickets not been diminished? Don't win the lottery you don't have the right. I would call that abolished not diminished. Anyways its a difference of opinion and nothing to get worked up over. However I do feel strongly about my side of this issue. And its a tough pill to swallow for someone who has always been able to secure tickets as a 10 club member before for the shows that I wanted and this was a major selling point on continuing paying for the membership. Don't get me wrong the other extras are great and I will continue to be a member, however that was a huge selling point for me and I am sure many other members.

So it can't be a surprise to anyone that some people may be extremely turned off by this. You purchase a product i.e. The 10 Club membership with an expectation of having an equal opportunity to purchase pre-sale tickets amongst the membership pool before the general public. Then they go and change the fine print on you........ Now your name has to be drawn out of a hat for that right.......... Still call bogus but it looks like whats done is done unfortunately IMO.

You had no problem with the method when you gave them your order... you agreed to the "fine print" as you say by giving them your CC#. The only reason you have a problem with it is because you weren't picked. Were you upset when they ran the test when they TOLD us about the lottery system?

PJ_Soul

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

We were all on equal playing field as members to be able to try and purchase tickets before anyone else.

Now they randomly pick and choose who gets the right which I'm sorry I call bogus. As previously mentioned any and every other fan club particularly those that come with a membership FEE offers its membership base exclusive access to pre-sale tickets. That's a major reason anyone joins any of these fan clubs. That fact is indisputable........

If you knew much about the network infrastructure of the internet you would know that first part of your comment is not even close to reality. The Ten Club has thrown money and tech at ticket sales, and they still break. And people still complain. Your second statement is confusing, every eligible member that wanted to try for tickets to GOT the chance to try for them. The tenclub agreement says nothing about guaranteeing anyone anything but the merch. Why is this so hard to understand for people?

Supply < Demand. End of story.

Lottery removes the networking problems that costs the band extra money. So you dont get to do you "ritual" that you think helps you get tickets. Just to let everyone know, your little tricks and multiple browser windows and little dances you perform has little to do with your luck with ticket sales. Really, take some data networking classes if you really want to understand what happens when a request is made over the internet. You cant just "Upgrade the Servers" to make things run better. Its a massive expensive headache to run a sales like this on Ten Club's level. They don't own servers and they don't have IT specialists writing specific network code for their e-commerce site. This crap costs more money than most of you make in a year to maintain. I am actually surprised they haven't done the lottery change sooner.

Good points. Isn't 10C just a few people in a small warehouse?? I think some people are overestimating their capabilities or scope.

PJ_Soul

O_G_D wrote:

What other fan clubs which require a fee have a lottery to purchase tickets? A random draw is not picking and choosing who gets the right to buy tickets? Explain that to me. I pay a yearly fee for my American express card. One of the main reasons I do so is to get exclusive access to front of the line tickets i.e. The opportunity along with every other paying member to be able to try and purchase tickets for an event from an even playing field within that pool. Sure this is not a guarantee, but this is the right that I pay extra for. How has the right to get tickets not been diminished? Don't win the lottery you don't have the right. I would call that abolished not diminished. Anyways its a difference of opinion and nothing to get worked up over. However I do feel strongly about my side of this issue. And its a tough pill to swallow for someone who has always been able to secure tickets as a 10 club member before for the shows that I wanted and this was a major selling point on continuing paying for the membership. Don't get me wrong the other extras are great and I will continue to be a member, however that was a huge selling point for me and I am sure many other members.

So it can't be a surprise to anyone that some people may be extremely turned off by this. You purchase a product i.e. The 10 Club membership with an expectation of having an equal opportunity to purchase pre-sale tickets amongst the membership pool before the general public. Then they go and change the fine print on you........ Now your name has to be drawn out of a hat for that right.......... Still call bogus but it looks like whats done is done unfortunately IMO.

I think the Phish fan club does a lottery.
"Picking and choosing" to me means actually making choices and picking specific people. Not random.
Having the "right"? I really don't see the difference. You can just as easily say that you didn't have the "right" to buy tickets if you get shut out of a sale that you F5 for all day. Either way, some people get tix, and some people don't. You either have equal opportunity to buy tickets, or equal opportunity to get drawn in the lottery (for which we had equal opportunity to enter). In the end, it's still all equal and the same number of people score tix.

SolarWorld

PJ_Soul wrote:

Good points. Isn't 10C just a few people in a small warehouse?? I think some people are overestimating their capabilities or scope.

Yeah, completely. People have no idea what bulletproof networking costs.

shortstack

SolarWorld wrote:

The tenclub agreement says nothing about guaranteeing anyone anything but the merch. Why is this so hard to understand for people?

it says that now, but in the old days it was implied differently

O_G_D

You had no problem with the method when you gave them your order... you agreed to the "fine print" as you say by giving them your CC#. The only reason you have a problem with it is because you weren't picked. Were you upset when they ran the test when they TOLD us about the lottery system?[/quote]


I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred an open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

Yes I'm upset I was not picked. I lost on London and Chicago plus on all the fictional shows to test the new system. This is not what I remember being a 10 club member being all about and its very disconcerting and I do not like or enjoy going through this process. Also I think an argument could be made that his system is much more open to more corruption than the previous one. Very little if no transparency here. But whatever I'm glad the 10 clubs life is made easier and mine not.......

SolarWorld

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

SolarWorld

O_G_D wrote:

Also I think an argument could be made that his system is much more open to more corruption than the previous one. Very little if no transparency here.

How would that argument be formed? Ten Club is a bunch of liars and should not be trusted they are randomly choosing names? Seriously, How does that work? Anyone person that knows something about DOS can bring down and online tenclub sale no problem, it already happened once, at least. The Ten Club does not exist to make your life easier. Remember there are people on the other side of this too, they are just doing their jobs the best way they see fit. They are not trying to screw you out of tickets. And for every sob story there is another of "OMG I just got tickets to see PJ, I've never seen them before!!!, or its been years since I have been able to!" etc etc.... share the PJ bro...

O_G_D

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

If someone buys season tickets to any team and that team makes the post season. Have a guess who gets first chance to purchase those post-season tickets? Do you think they are subject to a lottery? Or are the sold on a first come first serve basis to existing season ticket holders? The Montana show was very different and you know it............ There is nothing wrong with rewarding loyalty and continued patronage. It's why people come back and it's a stellar business model. 10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

SolarWorld

And no one is stopping you from going to either one of these shows, Wrigley holds what 40,000 in the seats alone? If you want to be in the building you will find a way to. There is even a great chance you'll find a extra ten club ticket! Then this stupid lottery outcome will be a distant memory...

PJ_Soul

O_G_D wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

If someone buys season tickets to any team and that team makes the post season. Have a guess who gets first chance to purchase those post-season tickets? Do you think they are subject to a lottery? Or are the sold on a first come first serve basis to existing season ticket holders? The Montana show was very different and you know it............ There is nothing wrong with rewarding loyalty and continued patronage. It's why people come back and it's a stellar business model. 10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

For them that model doesn't work. They can't continue to block out new fans and have all the same people up front forever. That would be a very POOR business decision. They don't just want people to come back - they want NEW fans too. A sports team is not comparable to a rock band at all, because sports are on TV! PJ concerts are not! Also, half of any team's games are in the same place, and their fans are mostly from that place, so 95% of the fans are local for the event and get many opportunities to go to a game near their home every single year. It make ZERO sense to compare these business models!

JimmyV

O_G_D wrote:

10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

SolarWorld

O_G_D wrote:

SolarWorld wrote:

O_G_D wrote:

I wasn't given a choice and I wanted tickets so of course I agreed because there was no other way. Seems to me a new system was just put in place and then I was asked to give feedback on that chosen system. I would have preferred and open discussion amongst members on how to alleviate some of the issues the 10 club may have faced. I feel that surely there must have been other alternatives to this new imposed system.

After years and years of this stuff you really think there is another option besides continuing to throw money down a pit and the choice they made to take technology out of the equation? A Lottery is the least headache for them, at least logistically and costs very little compared to trying to get an e-commerce server up that can handle thousands of requests a minute without breaking. I cant imagine they anticipated this kind of feedback though. I sure didn't, it makes no sense to me, at all. Like ALL Pearl Jam ticket sales, there is a limited number. Obviously not everyone will get tickets, this time it was your turn not to get tickets. And this lottery stuff is nothing new, they have done it all the time. Most recently was Montana. At the end of the day the majority of people that are mad, are just mad because they feel entitled to ten club tickets when there never should have been a sense of entitlement to begin with. I think its a completely selfish attitude, I know a bunch of people that have complained about not getting picked like they deserve it more than others, and they have seen them more times than I have! (Which is 30+). Its crazy... share the love, let someone else get up front. This band isn't YOURS. There are more shows coming, Pearl Jam didnt retire...

If someone buys season tickets to any team and that team makes the post season. Have a guess who gets first chance to purchase those post-season tickets? Do you think they are subject to a lottery? Or are the sold on a first come first serve basis to existing season ticket holders? The Montana show was very different and you know it............ There is nothing wrong with rewarding loyalty and continued patronage. It's why people come back and it's a stellar business model. 10 club blew up the model that had kept most if not all 10 club members happy for years......

You dont buy season tickets from the ten club, you join the club "with the opportunity" for access to a limited pool of tickets. This isn't even close to season tickets! How does that even make the slightest bit a sense? How was Montana different too both are cases of Supply < Demand... very simple concepts here you are over complicating just because you didn't get picked.

100 Pacer

Next month I'll be entering my 17th year in the fan club. And all I have to say is...

Gimme!

Gimme!

Gimme!

Fatal Smile

Thanks for posting this. Some 10C members need to do a reality check - YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED!!!

I have been lucky and fortunate to get 10C tickets to all the PJ shows I have been to (including Wrigley), and I wouldn't be one bit pissed at PJ or 10C if I didn't get 10C tix, do you know why? I DON'T FEEL ONE BIT ENTITLED!!

Just like anything else, there is supply and demand and unfortunately the demand outweighs the supply for most of these shows.

We are all lucky that we have a band that has lasted all these years and continue to have such a great fan base.