Lance Armstrong doping ?

Cliffy6745 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Why are some people so gullible, when it comes to charities?
The guy is a fucking fraud, and a cheat..
What makes you think his charity is legit?

it basically spends nothing on cancer research ...

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... l?page=all

It's such nonsense. Fucking cancer awareness. "Oh, what is this thing called cancer I keep hearing about?" Give me a fucking break. Fuck him.

Lets look at Lances reaction....
Because it is so fucking typical when it comes to frauds...

First he lied..
Then he denied...
Then he threatened everyone else...
Then he screamed and yelled alot....
Again he threatened others....AGAIN!

And now he will dissapear....

Because that is what lying, thieving, pieces of shit do...

i think people pick and choose though who they will support. for as clear as you seem to feel about it, i assume lance will still campaign for cancer research and awareness and people, millions of people will gladly donate. And the people who had cancer during his 7 wins, and found strength and courage in his example, how does that change now? it doesnt. He clearly inspired millions of people, without cancer and with, to stick to it, to persevere, to fight. That doesnt change in 2012.

Secondly, as I said, people pick and choose. there are millions of people who still cheer on Kobe, Tiger, Bonds, Michael Vick, etc... And thats just in sports. In politics, we not only fund peoples campaigns but we VOTE FOR THEM after stuff like this is revealed. There are people on this very board who do all that. And i do it too. But, lets be fair, are you against ALL users currently? Or do you look the other way for some athletes? SOMEBODY is buying tickets to see Kobe, or to see ARod hit a home run, or to watch Tiger win a major, or to see Michael Vick play. All are frauds and liars, some are cheats. In 2012, there are still many people who support Bonds. I remember when he "broke" the record, i was amazed, even then, how wrapped up people seemed to get in this farce, people wanting to be there when he broke hank's record. Why? Why would you be excited about that?

All im saying is Lance is different, because no one I know in any sport, who has been accused of doping, has had as huge an impact on people's belief systems, and has operated a charity of HUMONGOUS proportions.

If you had cancer in 2004, watched lance in Dodgeball and said "wow, this guy came back from the brink of death, and fought back", and that somehow was motivation for you to hope and pray and fight to stay alive, how in 2012, does that change? He was hope for alot of people, and thats something nothing can erase. He made cancer victims for a moment think "i can beat this, I dont have to die, I can fight this disease". Thats something that will never be taken away, whether or not we find out 100 plus teammates come out and say he doped

I don't like the gut a little bit, I think he is a complete fraud and pretty much a scumbag. That said, he gave my old man hope when he had cancer the first time. To each their own. Everyone deals with things differently.

Regardless of steroids, what he accomplished is impressive

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Regardless of steroids, what he accomplished is impressive

i used to believe in lance ... then i figured he was doping and i figured he would have been the best anyways and that everyone doped ... but now, after reading all the evidence ... the reality is that lance would have been a good cyclist but he wouldn't have dominated like he did at the tour without artificial aid ... and by that i mean not only PED but money, power and influence ... dude had the best doctors and access to everything he needed in order for him to excel above his competitors ...

the guy was doping in triathalons too after he retired from pro cycling ... that's just fucked up ...

again ... for the xth time ... i'm pretty sure you haven't read the evidence against him and what he is being accused of ... it goes beyond doping ... and also again - i am sure you have not read the evidence that documents what his foundation does ... yeah - there's money going to people who could use it but there's a crap load that goes to other things that don't have to do with cancer ...

as for tiger or vick ... fuck those guys ... i could care less about them ... but at least they a) we're man enough to ADMIT their faults and b) have not perpetuated a LIE all these years ... and c) did not exploit something such as CANCER for their own personal benefit ...

it's not about calling people who disagree with me ignorant ... it's calling you ignorant because it is clear you haven't read any of the evidence ... and therefore your entire opinion is based on not knowing the evidence ... ignorance ...

PJFAN13 wrote:

musicismylife78 wrote:

Second, of course its picking and choosing. I guarantee there are some people on this board who hate lance but cheer on Tiger or Michael Vick, or whoever. I know, because ive talked to people on this board who support those individuals. My understanding, and its borne out by the fact people will pay good money to see Kobe play ball this season, and will be cheering on Tiger, that people do pick and choose the "cheaters and liars" they support. You seem to have this view that lying and cheating is bad news. And I completely agree, but, clearly Kobe hasnt been ostracized because he raped a girl, and ARod doped and continues to be beloved and cheered on. Thats a double standard.

Respectfully, your argument here is nonsensical...
Lance cheated sponsors, teammates, opponents and HIS SPORT. He cheated and manipulated HIS SPORT - he won titles and sponsorships not on his human nature, but how well he rode a bike.
He cheated his SPORT.
Tiger cheated on his wife. (Oh yeah, Lance ALSO did that)
Michael Vick killed dogs.
Kobe raped a hotel gal.
None of the aforementioned cheated or manipulated their SPORT other than keeping them off said playing fields.
Yay, Livestrong gave hope to millions of cancer survivors. My dad is a cancer survivor and loved Lance. Now is he is extremely disappointed by him, will not donate to Livestrong and thinks the guy is a fraud.
BECAUSE HE'S A FRAUD.
HE SCREWED HIS SPORT.
WAKE UP.
What Lance did is bully, cheat and bring a black eye to the very sport that made him a household name.
Millions still watch Tiger, Kobe and Vick.
Your argument is poor, respectfully.
:roll:

How is what Bonds did any different? or Arod? ARod's chasing the same HR record as Bonds was, has he come out and said "hey i doped, so its unfair of me to move up the HR list"? Of course he hasnt said that. Bonds went so far as to act the part, he was "crowned" HR king, and cheated and lied just as much as lance did. The same dichotomy existed for Bonds and exists for Arod as well. How is ARod allowed to continue to play when he cheated and his entire career is suspect now?

I guess its all a matter of what you value. Because certainly, you talk to anyone woman, rape is an important issue that needs to be discussed, its not back burner stuff. Certainly Kobe, Tiger, Bonds, ARod and whoever did more than just lie. They lied to their sponsers, and fans, and teams just as much as Lance did, and for that matter just as much as Basso, Ulrich, Hamilton, etc.. did as well.

I refuse to play the game that what lance did is any different than any other cyclist on his team, they all doped, or any other ball player who juiced, or whatever. Its all the same thing. Lies, cheating, decieving.

I dont think there are varying degrees. You cheated, your record should be entirely wiped clean. That goes for all cyclists who doped and it goes for ARod who continues to rack up numbers. His entire record should be erased.

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

read it ...

on a different note, its wild to think all these athletes would risk it all, for the fame and glory. Well maybe thats not all that crazy to think about. But had they stayed clean, they maybe could have done really well. When you dope, though, anything you accomplish is suspect. Like Ulrich for example. His entire career was erased. Why would you risk having that happen, by doping?

Its also a shame, because all those people, who stayed clean, in the Tour, and in baseball, will forever be tainted because of what someone else did. Thats so messed up.

I also think about, some young, kid, rookie in baseball or at the tour, and they see what everyone else is doing, doping, and how you could see that person getting sucked into that world.

Personally I think all sports should do alot more to eradicate and punish cheaters. MLB especially was an absolute joke in this department, and probably covered up the use of steroids by its main headlining stars. Same with the Tour.

The whole sports industry is a joke, and thats a huge reason why I really dont watch any sports.

Red Mosquito75 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

bonds ... also on the all time sports fraud list ...

True but not the same as the Armstrong mess.
Also, When Bonds and some of these other ballpayers were using it was morally wrong but not against the rules of baseball.

it wasnt explicitly against the rules in baseball because MLB and everyone involved looked the other way because their big stars were using. Anyone who used knew what they were doing, and knew it was wrong, even if every single other teammate was using. Petit and Clemons and whoever can say it wasnt against the rules, but they knew what they were doing, and they knew it was wrong. Same with the Tour. More than just lance used, and the top 10 finishes are a complete laughingstock now, you take lance off number 1, and number 2 doped, so did number 3 and on down the line. Clearly the coverup was more than just protecting lance. It was by cycling in general protecting any of its athletes. Thats why I said earlier, Ive refused to watch the tour for years because everyone dopes. Whats the point of them even racing?

Thats why I feel like the microsope solely on lance is silly, as the microscope on Bonds or Mcguire would be. The MLB and the Tour were STACKED with dopers. Not 1 or 10, but hundreds. And both organizations sought to ignore it, downplay it, cover it up, because of the money, fame and glory.

musicismylife78 wrote:

plus not every athlete in the MLB juiced. So some had the ethical and moral wherewithall to say no, and to stay clean. The idea that lance or Bonds are unique is just as dangerous as the idea that everyone was doped, because it ignores the fact that athletes, all of them, chose to dope, they werent forced to. Im not sure how you could think taking steroids as a ball player is legal, or ethical or is okay. Bonds and everyone else has used that phony line for years.

Extending it further, look at the HR list. I'd like to erase the stats of every player who used from that list.

Would you also include anyone who took amphetamines.