Lance Armstrong doping ?

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

The whole sport made money off Armstrong when he was winning titles...now a whole bunch of people are going to make $$$$ money off him by writing books and doing the talk show circuit...like I said hypocrites...their not moral people, some of them got caught, their careers are over, lets write a book about Armstrong, make more money off him ... if they were moral they would have come forward testified and not profit in any way from their testimony (and proved they had no monetary gain). THEY ARE HYPOCRITES!!!

ok ... i get it ... you still wear the wristband ...

seriously, it sounds like you aren't really interested in the details of this case nor the former or current state of cycling ... it's too bad that you have been sucked into the myth that is the lance armstrong brand ... because the reality is that you are defending someone who ranks pretty low in "morality" and "class" ... i won't bother trying to explain what his foundation really does because its pretty clear - you don't care ...

The details of this case is money...IMO.

polaris_x

Go Beavers wrote:

So Hincapie admitted to doping:

http://news.yahoo.com/armstrong-lieutenant-hincapie-admits-doping-170101406--spt.html

I think this is good to see, even though he's retired now. Sure beats the old routine of guy gets caught, guy goes through several months/years of denials, guy finally confesses. I was never a big fan of Hincapie. Always seemed real bland and his wheel-sucking TDF stage win wasn't anything to write my grandma about. To me he has more credibility than Hamilton, Landis, et al.

I wonder why no Radio Shack teammates are on the list?

hincapie pretty much admitted to doping when he returned his gold medal to the USADA ...

radioshack is still managed by bruyneel ... they are part of that omerta ... not sure what armstrong said or did to horner to make him a lackey but i lost some respect for that guy ...

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

The details of this case is money...IMO.

it's great you came to a conclusion without reading the case or understanding cycling! ... :roll:

Go Beavers

polaris_x wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

So Hincapie admitted to doping:

http://news.yahoo.com/armstrong-lieutenant-hincapie-admits-doping-170101406--spt.html

I think this is good to see, even though he's retired now. Sure beats the old routine of guy gets caught, guy goes through several months/years of denials, guy finally confesses. I was never a big fan of Hincapie. Always seemed real bland and his wheel-sucking TDF stage win wasn't anything to write my grandma about. To me he has more credibility than Hamilton, Landis, et al.

I wonder why no Radio Shack teammates are on the list?

hincapie pretty much admitted to doping when he returned his gold medal to the USADA ...

radioshack is still managed by bruyneel ... they are part of that omerta ... not sure what armstrong said or did to horner to make him a lackey but i lost some respect for that guy ...

Do you think Armstrong was doping while on Radioshack?

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

The details of this case is money...IMO.

it's great you came to a conclusion without reading the case or understanding cycling! ... :roll:

All about the $$$$...IMO. So now the sport can go back to being irrelevant in this part of the world.

polaris_x

Go Beavers wrote:

Do you think Armstrong was doping while on Radioshack?

i highly doubt it ...

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

All about the $$$$...IMO. So now the sport can go back to being irrelevant in this part of the world.

it's actually growing in this part of the world ... from the tour of california to the us pro cycling challenge to the grand prix events in quebec ...

just because lance isn't around anymore doesn't mean this sport hasn't grown ... they showed the vuelta live on sportsnet without a canadian even racing in it ...

again - you're not a cycling fan ... maybe you're a lance fan ... the sport is growing and it's better than ever ... it's unfortunate your jaded views on this aren't based on anything related to the sport but that's how it goes i guess ...

i honestly can't wait for the 2013 grand tour season ... the giro route looks awesome where hopefully hesjedal can repeat and if the rumours are right about he 100th tour de france finishing on alpe d'huez are true - it's gonna be beyond amazing ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

All about the $$$$...IMO. So now the sport can go back to being irrelevant in this part of the world.

it's actually growing in this part of the world ... from the tour of california to the us pro cycling challenge to the grand prix events in quebec ...

just because lance isn't around anymore doesn't mean this sport hasn't grown ... they showed the vuelta live on sportsnet without a canadian even racing in it ...

again - you're not a cycling fan ... maybe you're a lance fan ... the sport is growing and it's better than ever ... it's unfortunate your jaded views on this aren't based on anything related to the sport but that's how it goes i guess ...

i honestly can't wait for the 2013 grand tour season ... the giro route looks awesome where hopefully hesjedal can repeat and if the rumours are right about he 100th tour de france finishing on alpe d'huez are true - it's gonna be beyond amazing ...

My views wouldn't be jaded if they actually conducted a proper investigation of Armstrong during his title years...but obviously if they did and if they caught him early enough it would have cost the sport and people associated with him mega $$$$. Now these former cyclist want one final big paycheck and all hope to land a book deal...HYPOCRITES.

Wouldn't call being on sportsnet or tsn a major accomplishment since both these networks shows darts and poker as time fillers.

Riverrunner

lukin2006 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

All about the $$$$...IMO. So now the sport can go back to being irrelevant in this part of the world.

it's actually growing in this part of the world ... from the tour of california to the us pro cycling challenge to the grand prix events in quebec ...

just because lance isn't around anymore doesn't mean this sport hasn't grown ... they showed the vuelta live on sportsnet without a canadian even racing in it ...

again - you're not a cycling fan ... maybe you're a lance fan ... the sport is growing and it's better than ever ... it's unfortunate your jaded views on this aren't based on anything related to the sport but that's how it goes i guess ...

i honestly can't wait for the 2013 grand tour season ... the giro route looks awesome where hopefully hesjedal can repeat and if the rumours are right about he 100th tour de france finishing on alpe d'huez are true - it's gonna be beyond amazing ...

My views wouldn't be jaded if they actually conducted a proper investigation of Armstrong during his title years...but obviously if they did and if they caught him early enough it would have cost the sport and people associated with him mega $$$$. Now these former cyclist want one final big paycheck and all hope to land a book deal...HYPOCRITES.

Wouldn't call being on sportsnet or tsn a major accomplishment since both these networks shows darts and poker as time fillers.

Do you understand that the "prosecutor" in this case is NOT a person that made money from Lance? Do you understand that the people that made money from Lance DID NOT want him prosecuted, and that many lied to protect him? So who is the hypocrite? Using your logic, a district attorney who prosecutes a mob boss years after the mob boss has made millions of dollars for himself, his gangster employees, his family, his gardener, his contractor, etc. is a hypocrite because he didn't/couldn't prosecute the mob boss when he was at the "zenith" of his career. And he is a hypocrite if he did not make any money from the mob boss, or in this case, Lance. Please explain.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

My views wouldn't be jaded if they actually conducted a proper investigation of Armstrong during his title years...but obviously if they did and if they caught him early enough it would have cost the sport and people associated with him mega $$$$. Now these former cyclist want one final big paycheck and all hope to land a book deal...HYPOCRITES.

Wouldn't call being on sportsnet or tsn a major accomplishment since both these networks shows darts and poker as time fillers.

this is why you actually should read the case before commenting ... :fp:

the UCI was responsible for drug testing back then ... of course, they had everything to gain from lance not testing positive ... so, they were complicit ... i have said it throughout this thread ... the UCI needs to have a truth and reconciliation commission and they need to own up to their part in this fraud ...

but the reality is now - the cyclists that have come forward may have ulterior motives but it doesn't change the facts of the case ...

lance armstrong doped to win his 7 tdf titles
lance armstrong bullied and established a code of silence (omerta) in pro cycling
lance armsrtong is a liar
lance armstrong is a fraud
lance armstrong has the moral fortitude of a turd

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

My views wouldn't be jaded if they actually conducted a proper investigation of Armstrong during his title years...but obviously if they did and if they caught him early enough it would have cost the sport and people associated with him mega $$$$. Now these former cyclist want one final big paycheck and all hope to land a book deal...HYPOCRITES.

Wouldn't call being on sportsnet or tsn a major accomplishment since both these networks shows darts and poker as time fillers.

this is why you actually should read the case before commenting ... :fp:

the UCI was responsible for drug testing back then ... of course, they had everything to gain from lance not testing positive ... so, they were complicit ... i have said it throughout this thread ... the UCI needs to have a truth and reconciliation commission and they need to own up to their part in this fraud ...

but the reality is now - the cyclists that have come forward may have ulterior motives but it doesn't change the facts of the case ...

lance armstrong doped to win his 7 tdf titles
lance armstrong bullied and established a code of silence (omerta) in pro cycling
lance armsrtong is a liar
lance armstrong is a fraud
lance armstrong has the moral fortitude of a turd

The same could be said for everyone involved with cycling during the Armstrong years...the only reason anyones coming forward now is $$$$ they hope to gain from book deals or a movie.

The USADA was open for business in 2001 they could have investigated him then...surely they heard the accusations!!! The whole sport is full of HYPOCRITES!! or did he bully the USADA as well. I was bullied thats why I didn't speak up ... more like Lance reminded them that he was making everyone a lot of $$$$ ... then when they all got busted or are out of the sport ...lets write a tell all book .... $$$$, all everyone sees is $$$$ signs.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

The same could be said for everyone involved with cycling during the Armstrong years...the only reason anyones coming forward now is $$$$ they hope to gain from book deals or a movie.

The USADA was open for business in 2001 they could have investigated him then...surely they heard the accusations!!! The whole sport is full of HYPOCRITES!! or did he bully the USADA as well. I was bullied thats why I didn't speak up ... more like Lance reminded them that he was making everyone a lot of $$$$ ... then when they all got busted or are out of the sport ...lets write a tell all book .... $$$$, all everyone sees is $$$$ signs.

no one made more money off cycling than lance armstrong

listen ... it's absurd having this conversation because your opinion (which you have every right to) is simply not based on any reality ... all the cyclists have said that they have come forward in the interests of the sport ... you don't want to believe that - that's fine ... but you are making outrageous assumptions based on absolutely zero understanding of the cyclists you are accusing and the sport itself ... you are essentially insulting the integrity of everyone of these people who are about to face sanctions for breaking the code of silence in order to defend basically a douchebag ...

so ... feel free to label these guys as greedy and continue to defend a fraud ... your choice but i'd only wish you knew what you were talking about ...

lukin2006

polaris_x wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

The same could be said for everyone involved with cycling during the Armstrong years...the only reason anyones coming forward now is $$$$ they hope to gain from book deals or a movie.

The USADA was open for business in 2001 they could have investigated him then...surely they heard the accusations!!! The whole sport is full of HYPOCRITES!! or did he bully the USADA as well. I was bullied thats why I didn't speak up ... more like Lance reminded them that he was making everyone a lot of $$$$ ... then when they all got busted or are out of the sport ...lets write a tell all book .... $$$$, all everyone sees is $$$$ signs.

no one made more money off cycling than lance armstrong

listen ... it's absurd having this conversation because your opinion (which you have every right to) is simply not based on any reality ... all the cyclists have said that they have come forward in the interests of the sport ... you don't want to believe that - that's fine ... but you are making outrageous assumptions based on absolutely zero understanding of the cyclists you are accusing and the sport itself ... you are essentially insulting the integrity of everyone of these people who are about to face sanctions for breaking the code of silence in order to defend basically a douchebag ...

so ... feel free to label these guys as greedy and continue to defend a fraud ... your choice but i'd only wish you knew what you were talking about ...

actually I don't really think I'm defending anybody by my comments today ... I have defended him in the past ... what I'm not defending is the people involved with cycling who made a ton of $$$ off Armstrong and could stand to make more ... HYPOCRITES. The funny thing of this whole deal is that Armstrong will probably write a book that will outsell all their books combined. They were doping as well...so what does that say about them? If some of them were never caught I doubt they'd have come forward. That whole sport been a joke for quite sometime.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

actually I don't really think I'm defending anybody by my comments today ... I have defended him in the past ... what I'm not defending is the people involved with cycling who made a ton of $$$ off Armstrong and could stand to make more ... HYPOCRITES. The funny thing of this whole deal is that Armstrong will probably write a book that will outsell all their books combined. They were doping as well...so what does that say about them? If some of them were never caught I doubt they'd have come forward. That whole sport been a joke for quite sometime.

again ... read the affidavits ... you know not what you are talking about ... you calling these cyclists who have lost all their results from the past and are about to face a ban hypocrites and greedy is beyond insulting ... i don't know what profession you are in ... but just imagine me coming in and basically calling everyone who works in your field a bunch of greedy hypocrites without even knowing who you guys are or what they do for a living ... again - you can have whatever opinion you want ... but it's formed out of ignorance not only to the sport but to the people you are slamming ... and all it would take is for you to read the case and the affidavits to at least get a better idea of what's going on ...

polaris_x

on that note ... read a bunch of the affidavits last night ... this fucking guy is a real piece of work ... what a piece of scum ... threatening someone's wife, suing ex employees and calling them prostitutes and alcoholics ... this guy is a real asshole ... :evil:

polaris_x

polaris_x wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

Do you think Armstrong was doping while on Radioshack?

i highly doubt it ...

check that ... after reading some of the documents ... he was ... :shock:

Riverrunner

polaris_x wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Go Beavers wrote:

Do you think Armstrong was doping while on Radioshack?

i highly doubt it ...

check that ... after reading some of the documents ... he was ... :shock:

I was going to say something about that yesterday, but I hadn't read much so waited. But yes, I think there is good evidence that he blood doped in 2009 at TDF, and even evidence that he is/was doping in the recent triathlons. Amazing that he is brash enough to continue to do that. The guy is a psychopath I think.

polaris_x

Riverrunner wrote:

I was going to say something about that yesterday, but I hadn't read much so waited. But yes, I think there is good evidence that he blood doped in 2009 at TDF, and even evidence that he is/was doping in the recent triathlons. Amazing that he is brash enough to continue to do that. The guy is a psychopath I think.

definitely a psychopath ...

have you read the affidavits!? ... really gives an insight into everyone's mindset at the time ...

also - do you know as part of their sanctions ... these riders - do they lose prize money for the races they were in when they doped? ... i know the garmin guys are under a 6 month suspension now till march 1 and all their results have been cleared during their doping period ...

Riverrunner

polaris_x wrote:

Riverrunner wrote:

I was going to say something about that yesterday, but I hadn't read much so waited. But yes, I think there is good evidence that he blood doped in 2009 at TDF, and even evidence that he is/was doping in the recent triathlons. Amazing that he is brash enough to continue to do that. The guy is a psychopath I think.

definitely a psychopath ...

have you read the affidavits!? ... really gives an insight into everyone's mindset at the time ...

also - do you know as part of their sanctions ... these riders - do they lose prize money for the races they were in when they doped? ... i know the garmin guys are under a 6 month suspension now till march 1 and all their results have been cleared during their doping period ...

I have read very little. I have been way too busy at work, stuff at home, and work on a rental apt. above my office. I have read Dave Z's which seems to be the one that affects people the most. A kid whose dad was a substance abuser who got into cycling to avoid the drug scene being pressured into doping. Very sad. I have more respect for Dave Z after this - I have always liked him a lot. I have see an attachment to Frankie A.'s affidavit which is an email from Frankie to Hincapie saying something about the Olympics. Hincapie's response was to chastise and criticize Frankie for not keeping Betsy's mouth in check over her anti-doping talk. Makes me have a lot less respect for Hincapie. I always liked him, but now thinking about how he has stood with Lance for so long until recently (and conveniently so) when he retired. But then again, this case probably incited him to retire now. What gets my goat about the guys that I like(d) that went along with it up until this case, is that they stood by and let Lance bully Landis, Hamilton, Betsy/Frankie, Emma O'Reilly, Bassons, Simeoni, and anyone else that threated Omerta or Lance. In some ways that makes them as bad as the bully IMO, although I do have some empathy for them. I understand the pressure to dope more than the standing idly by while other people were hurt.

polaris_x

Riverrunner wrote:

I have read very little. I have been way too busy at work, stuff at home, and work on a rental apt. above my office. I have read Dave Z's which seems to be the one that affects people the most. A kid whose dad was a substance abuser who got into cycling to avoid the drug scene being pressured into doping. Very sad. I have more respect for Dave Z after this - I have always liked him a lot. I have see an attachment to Frankie A.'s affidavit which is an email from Frankie to Hincapie saying something about the Olympics. Hincapie's response was to chastise and criticize Frankie for not keeping Betsy's mouth in check over her anti-doping talk. Makes me have a lot less respect for Hincapie. I always liked him, but now thinking about how he has stood with Lance for so long until recently (and conveniently so) when he retired. But then again, this case probably incited him to retire now. What gets my goat about the guys that I like(d) that went along with it up until this case, is that they stood by and let Lance bully Landis, Hamilton, Betsy/Frankie, Emma O'Reilly, Bassons, Simeoni, and anyone else that threated Omerta or Lance. In some ways that makes them as bad as the bully IMO, although I do have some empathy for them. I understand the pressure to dope more than the standing idly by while other people were hurt.

here is a link to the USADA report but broken out by sections so its easier to read one person's affidavit ...

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

but yeah - hincapie is revered and really based on the affidavits i've read so far ... he's just another guy who is protecting his psychopath asshole friend ...