Lance Armstrong doping ?
Comments
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Riverrunner wrote:I'd say you haven't read the report. Or a summary of the report.
not a lot of people have ...
here's a good link that compiles a lot of the articles being written now
http://www.steephill.tv/2012/usada-lanc ... ping-case/0 -
lance steps down as chairman of livestrong and nike have finally dumped him ... will see where oakley is on this as they basically helped him lie by silencing a rep early on ...0
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polaris_x wrote:lance steps down as chairman of livestrong and nike have finally dumped him ... will see where oakley is on this as they basically helped him lie by silencing a rep early on ...
Everyone's backing off. Eventually he'll have to own it, or he'll lose his mind.0 -
Go Beavers wrote:Everyone's backing off. Eventually he'll have to own it, or he'll lose his mind.
we will see ... he is likely facing perjury charges ... and the fallout will be massive ... and really, the only question now is how far reaching this thing gets ...
will nike get exposed to bribing the UCI as is reported? ... will Oakley be found to have forced an employee to lie under oath? ... will the Omerta finally be smashed? ... and will the UCI admit their role in this?0 -
Will Lance Armstrong's fall from grace larger than Tiger Woods? I would say Lance due to the fact Tiger is still playing and can get better to win while Lance has nothing else in his retirement but fall further into his self made abyss.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
why would he step down from livestrong? Even if you believe he's guilty, nearly everyone agrees that is the greatest thing he's ever been a part of. And thats the thing he has continually pointed to, and could point to, "you say i doped, but ive been raising hundreds of millions for cancer research". None of the other people accused of doping in other sports have similar situations. Its not like Bonds is raising money for any cause, and certainly not the gargantuan amounts Lance has. And just from a "good PR" point of view, if your whole MO is and has been "im innocent, ive been railroaded, and this is bigger than just 7 tour titles, this is about a disease that effects everyone". And clearly thats true, but why step down from that organization?
This move puzzles me. If he's innocent, why would you step down from an organization that clearly is important, and if guilty, doesnt he see how this move makes him look? And additionally if guilty, why not CONTINUE to do Livestrong? Livestrong has always been his saving grace. As I said, until the day he dies, people will wonder if he doped. But its indisputable the work he has done for cancer research and awareness and the importance he has been to cancer survivors and just everyday individuals.0 -
I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.0
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Wow,
The fact there are still people who think this guy is innocent of cheating = blows my mind :roll: :roll: :roll:
Facts:
--> 26 witnesses have testified against him to the USADA...
-->11 former teammates have admitted to his not only doping, but to his elaborate plan to hide the fact he was doping
-->The USADA report last week detailed specific times, places, dates, people, doctors etc who KNEW who PARTICIPATED and who HELPED Lance (and others cheat the system)
-->Nike, not only severed a 16 yr realationship/sponsor ship with the guy, but is STRIPPING and CHANGING the name of the Lance Armstrong Fitness Center at its world headquarters in Beaverton, Ore.
-->He has been BANNED by his sport of cycling
-->The International Cycling Union is stripping Armstrong of EACH of his titles.
--> The USADA are going to make Armstrong return millions of dollars in cash prizes that he has won over the past 15 years
He's cheated on his wife (resulting in divorce), he's cheated on his girlfriends...He's cheated his sport...
How can people blindly believe he is innocent? How?
Again, all he had to do was fess up, admit and apologize. He refused. Ego and pride got in the way. Marcellus Wallace in 'Pulp Fiction' said: "Pride don't help, it only hurts".
Sad state of affairs around Lance. As someone who bought his books, wore the yellow Livestrong bracelet proudly, only watched the TDF because of him, I feel like a schmuck. He duped me like he duped millions of others.
The fact people still think this guy is innocent is beyond me...11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.240 -
musicismylife78 wrote:I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
g under p wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace
this does seem to be a major problem, with Bonds, or Mcguire (who i like), Arod, and whoever else is they deny and then its only later they admit, if ever, that they doped. The dumbest ive ever heard was Palmiero saying "i never used steroids period" in front of Congress. And Bonds, the guy is a disgrace, everyone knows he doped but he'll probably go to his grave saying he is clean.
To me, Bonds has always been above and beyond evil in terms of these issues. Say what you want about Lance, but if he's guilty, I dont think he'd want kids who want to be the next Tour champ, to dope. I dont think thats what he wants or wanted. With Bonds, I sensed and still sense this "i dont care" attitude, that as long as he got his home run record nothing else matters. And I dont think Bonds gives one iota.
With people like Mcguire, I do think they have a profound sense of inner torment and guilt that eats them alive to this day, and thats sad.
With Lance, even if you think he's guilty, he has or had Livestrong and hundreds of millions raised for cancer research. thats an undeniable good thing. And that muddies the waters. He's not some guy who became fabulously wealthy and disappeared, he has done some amazing things in terms of cancer awareness.
And thats why the issue isnt black and white. What is his legacy? What has more weight?
I think often people are referred to as either good or bad. You cant be both. You often see that in portrayals and discussions of criminals, Charles Manson for example. But the guys views on a host of other issues is facinating and in my view correct. But the guys refered to as a murderer, a psychopath, a criminal, a lowlife etc... Could any interesting discussion ever occur when the deck is stacked, when you call someone a murderer, is anyone going to listen to any other thing you say?0 -
g under p wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:I wonder, what would have been the fallout and response had Lance come out in 2001 or even 2005 and said "I doped"? Do you think by 2012 we would have forgiven him? Assuming he's guilty of course, I wonder if that course of action, would have been better for him. Same with Bonds or whoever.
At that time and with the atmosphere back then I would have forgiven him. The fallout would not have been that great.
Peace
Agreed^^^
Think about the cheats who apologized for a sec:
ARod
Petitte
Giambi
(all forgiven)
Think about the cheats who haven't manned up:
Clemens
Bonds
Rose
Nixon
McGuire
Sosa
(all fighting demons)
Lying to people who KNOW you are guilty insults peoples intelligence. People HATE having their intelligence insulted. Arrogance and one-uppers have few tolerant peeps on this planet.11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.240 -
Safe to say Armstrong is a liar, a cheat, and a fraud.
But I am supposed to forgive hin because he ran a charity?
Bullshit...
All the money he made on endorsements
All the money he profited from Nike
All the money he made biking...
Was all a FRAUD! Right?
But I am supposed to cut this guy a break because he ran a charity?
Bullshit...Take me piece by piece.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....0 -
g under p wrote:Will Lance Armstrong's fall from grace larger than Tiger Woods? I would say Lance due to the fact Tiger is still playing and can get better to win while Lance has nothing else in his retirement but fall further into his self made abyss.
Peace
lance is the biggest fraud in american sports history ...0 -
look at it this way:
if he conned people, what did he con them into doing? donating money to a cancer awareness/research organization, and giving hope to cancer victims and their families? Its not like he bought a rolls royce off the donations or the fame and glory.
what bonds did was far worse. participating in the charade of "beating" hank aarons record and all the while knowing that you doped. thats gross.
and im also unsure how, if say you had cancer in 2004 and felt inspired and felt hope because of lance, how him being guilty chances any of that. It doesnt change it. Or if you were duped into donating to Livestrong by his story, is anyone really regretting donating? Isnt funding research and awareness good and worthwhile no matter who inspired you to donate?
He isnt being accused of funneling Livestrong funds to buy airplanes, or to fund trips to 5 star hotels. He isnt being accused of any of that.
And thats where its not easy to say he is this or that. He possibly lied and cheated, but he also has done an incredible amount for an important cause. Which outweighs the other? whats more important?0 -
polaris_x wrote:g under p wrote:Will Lance Armstrong's fall from grace larger than Tiger Woods? I would say Lance due to the fact Tiger is still playing and can get better to win while Lance has nothing else in his retirement but fall further into his self made abyss.
Peace
lance is the biggest fraud in american sports history ...
more so than bonds? who "broke" the most important record in sports and went through the charade of the ceremony that day, when he "broke" the record? Having the guts to interact with Hank and act like he had actually beat his record? really?
What about the hundreds of other ball players who lied, and doped? Or Lance's teammates?0 -
T)he foundation’s financial reports from 2009 and 2010 show that Livestrong’s resources pay for a very large amount of marketing and PR. During those years, the foundation raised $84 million and spent just over $60 million. (The rest went into a reserve of cash and assets that now tops $100 million.)
A surprising $4.2 million of that went straight to advertising, including large expenditures for banner ads and optimal search-engine placement. Outsourcing is the order of the day: $14 million of total spending, or more than 20 percent, went to outside consultants and professionals. That figure includes $2 million for construction, but much of the money went to independent organizations that actually run Livestrong programs. For example, Livestrong paid $1 million to a Boston–based public-health consulting firm to manage its campaigns in Mexico and South Africa against cancer stigma—the perception that cancer is contagious or invariably fatal.
Livestrong touts its stigma programs, but it spent more than triple that, $3.5 million in 2010 alone, for merchandise giveaways and order fulfillment. Curiously, on Livestrong’s tax return most of those merchandise costs were categorized as “program” expenses. CFO Greg Lee says donating the wristbands counts as a program because “it raises awareness.”
The guy is a fucking fraud...
And his foundation/charity is fucking horseshit too.....Take me piece by piece.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....0 -
Why are some people so gullible, when it comes to charities?
The guy is a fucking fraud, and a cheat..
What makes you think his charity is legit?Take me piece by piece.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....0 -
SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:Safe to say Armstrong is a liar, a cheat, and a fraud.
But I am supposed to forgive hin because he ran a charity?
Bullshit...
All the money he made on endorsements
All the money he profited from Nike
All the money he made biking...
Was all a FRAUD! Right?
But I am supposed to cut this guy a break because he ran a charity?
Bullshit...
and when you find out that a lot of money he raised went to things not really related to cancer - you'd be doubly pissed ...
we're not even talking about what this guy has done to people that pretty much makes him one of the biggest assholes around ...
people who still support him are delusional0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:more so than bonds? who "broke" the most important record in sports and went through the charade of the ceremony that day, when he "broke" the record? Having the guts to interact with Hank and act like he had actually beat his record? really?
What about the hundreds of other ball players who lied, and doped? Or Lance's teammates?
dude ... do yourself a favour and read the evidence ... you are defending not only a fraud but a major douchebag ...0 -
SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:Why are some people so gullible, when it comes to charities?
The guy is a fucking fraud, and a cheat..
What makes you think his charity is legit?
it basically spends nothing on cancer research ...
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... l?page=all0
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