the death penalty

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  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Sorry you don't agree but that's exactly what it is. You deem it differently because you feel the result is somehow equivalent or deserved, but that doesn't take away from it. Can't be for and against the same idea.. it's inconsistent and yes, hypocritical. Life is either valuable and no one should take it away, not even a government sanctioned law/punishment, or it is not valuable and if people break the laws, they will be killed just as they acted out (different manner, same result). The rest of the argument is mere double-talk and justification for carrying out a second wrong-doing.
    cincybearcat wrote:
    If you don;t want to keep repeating yourself stop making stupid comments about hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy there.


    This is exactly why it is difficult to have any meaningful discussion on difficult issues...I thought you were done posting?

    Why? And where did he say he was done posting?
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    to quote cosmo; maybe because some you serve up a pitch that he just has to take a swing at. :lol:
    no offence cosmo, it just seem to fit this just all too well. :D

    Godfather.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. wrote:
    to quote cosmo; maybe because some you serve up a pitch that he just has to take a swing at. :lol:
    no offence cosmo, it just seem to fit this just all too well. :D

    Godfather.
    ...
    Hmmmm... I don't get it.
    He said Hitler and the Nazis responsible should all be executed had it occurred today... I asked about von Braun... a Nazi officer in the SS that was responsible for the deaths of slave laborers from the concentration camps who was rewarded by the U.S. and lived in wealth til an old age. That's a meatball?
    I don't get it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    nazi ss and that entire crew should have been tossed into a volcano.
    wait...
    scratch that.
    that would make the volcano ill.

    take 'em out back behind the barn.

    :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
    nice work fellows
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    catefrances wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Taking a life to show some sort of misguided punishment which is supposed to protect the sanctity of life isn't hypocrisy?



    doesn't it reinforce the value of life?

    if you take someone's stuff you get punished with a few years, you assault someone you get punished, but the only punishment that fits taking a life, is in deed getting yours taken from you. I would say it isn't hypocrisy at all, but more so a statement on how much another person's life is worth.

    no it does not reinforce the value of life. but then again i guess itd depend on your measure of value.

    if you steal, you dont have your things stolen from you as punishment. if you assault someone, you are not assaulted as punishment.

    which just reinforces the value. I am worth so much that no amount of restitution will make up for it, the only thing that pays that bill is your life.
    Now that doesn't mean that I am for it in practice however. because of the possibility of innocent men being convicted in an imperfect justice system, it should only be used on those that confess to a murder and there is irrefutable evidence to support that confession.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I understand your point about the absolute certainty of a crime before such a punishment, but with your below scenario, you're basically allowing the criminal to set their own punishment and in most instances, it's what they want. Death in such a scenario is not a punishment as they have no care for their or anyone else's life, but life in prison is a punishment no one would want.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    which just reinforces the value. I am worth so much that no amount of restitution will make up for it, the only thing that pays that bill is your life.
    Now that doesn't mean that I am for it in practice however. because of the possibility of innocent men being convicted in an imperfect justice system, it should only be used on those that confess to a murder and there is irrefutable evidence to support that confession.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I understand your point about the absolute certainty of a crime before such a punishment, but with your below scenario, you're basically allowing the criminal to set their own punishment and in most instances, it's what they want. Death in such a scenario is not a punishment as they have no care for their or anyone else's life, but life in prison is a punishment no one would want.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    which just reinforces the value. I am worth so much that no amount of restitution will make up for it, the only thing that pays that bill is your life.
    Now that doesn't mean that I am for it in practice however. because of the possibility of innocent men being convicted in an imperfect justice system, it should only be used on those that confess to a murder and there is irrefutable evidence to support that confession.


    that is quite an assumption. there are plenty of people on death row trying as hard as they can to stay alive through appeals. They may have to live in prison, but they still get to live.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    How is it an assumption? Is the purpose of such a punishment to install the notion that life is valuable and therefore if you take a life, you may lose your own? If so, then it is not an assumption because anyone who takes a life does not value theirs or others. Unless, you just solely believe it's easier to wash your hands of the criminal from society, the intent, punishment and rational for such is inconsistent and terribly flawed.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    that is quite an assumption. there are plenty of people on death row trying as hard as they can to stay alive through appeals. They may have to live in prison, but they still get to live.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    FiveB247x wrote:
    How is it an assumption? Is the purpose of such a punishment to install the notion that life is valuable and therefore if you take a life, you may lose your own? If so, then it is not an assumption because anyone who takes a life does not value theirs or others. Unless, you just solely believe it's easier to wash your hands of the criminal from society, the intent, punishment and rational for such is inconsistent and terribly flawed.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    that is quite an assumption. there are plenty of people on death row trying as hard as they can to stay alive through appeals. They may have to live in prison, but they still get to live.

    the assumption you made was that prison for life would be worse than death.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    FiveB247x wrote:
    How is it an assumption? Is the purpose of such a punishment to install the notion that life is valuable and therefore if you take a life, you may lose your own? If so, then it is not an assumption because anyone who takes a life does not value theirs or others. Unless, you just solely believe it's easier to wash your hands of the criminal from society, the intent, punishment and rational for such is inconsistent and terribly flawed.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    that is quite an assumption. there are plenty of people on death row trying as hard as they can to stay alive through appeals. They may have to live in prison, but they still get to live.


    but more so you jump to the assumption that someone who kills someone else does not value you their life. Most people don''t kill someone with the intention of being caught. So the value they place on their own life is irrelevant.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    For someone who doesn't value life (theirs or others), that is correct, and that is the mind-set we're dealing with. If you don't value life, why would it matter if you lose yours or take it from others? Death is only a punishment suitable for someone who value's life... which isn't the guilty.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    the assumption you made was that prison for life would be worse than death.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited July 2010
    ok ok ok.
    time for a talking to.

    dog shit is in prison.
    dog shit is in a cell 23 hours per day because dog shit can't behave.
    dog shit is loonier than a cartoon.
    dog shit is beyond mean and nasty.

    correctional officers are trying to make a living and protect society from dog shit.

    are you following me so far?
    still, do not stop using your brain.. stay with me here, ok?
    ok, good.

    while getting dog shit ready for his stroll to exercise or shower, dog shit fights and throws poop and piss on all the guards and stabs one with a filed down toothbrush and kicks one guard square in the balls.
    now the cert team is called in. "Correctional Emergency Response Team."

    even before the cert team shows up, both prisoner and guard(s) have broken bones, blood loss, which is fantastic in the modern day of HIV warfare. ankles are snapped. noses are fucked. eyeballs get poked. it is a bitch.
    this is a daily event. different convicts of course. but the same ones over and over never learn.

    cell removal:
    classic events in the making.
    straight violence at the highest in most cases.

    pepper spray is eaten for breakfast.
    electrical shock does zero to dog shit.

    "nice exercise pen, do you like stripping off all your clothes, shitting on the pen flooring and smearing it all over yourself and then refuse to come out so we have to come get your WORLD CHAMPION WRESTLING ASS?"

    nice homemade knives jammed into other dog shit's gut. they like killing each other a lot.
    nice sharp steel into a guards neck.

    yet on the outside in society where we all function nicely, they are the exact same.

    i see zero reason in keeping dog shit going.
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    chadwick wrote:
    ok ok ok.
    time for a talking to.

    dog shit is in prison.
    dog shit is in a cell 23 hours per day because dog shit can't behave.
    dog shit is loonier than a cartoon.
    dog shit is beyond mean and nasty.

    correctional officers are trying to make a living and protect society from dog shit.

    are you following me so far?
    still, do not stop using your brain.. stay with me here, ok?
    ok, good.

    while getting dog shit ready for his stroll to exercise or shower, dog shit fights and throws poop and piss on all the guards and stabs one with a filed down toothbrush and kicks one guard square in the balls.
    now the cert team is called in. "Correctional Emergency Response Team."

    even before the cert team shows up, both prisoner and guard(s) have broken bones, blood loss, which is fantastic in the modern day of HIV warfare. ankles are snapped. noses are fucked. eyeballs get poked. it is a bitch.
    this is a daily event. different convicts of course. but the same ones over and over never learn.

    cell removal:
    classic events in the making.
    straight violence at the highest in most cases.

    pepper spray is eaten for breakfast.
    electrical shock does zero to dog shit.

    "nice exercise pen, do you like stripping off all your clothes, shitting on the pen flooring and snearing it all over you and then refuse to come out so we have to come get your WORLD CHAMPION WRESTLING ASS?"

    nice homemade knives jammed into other dog shit's gut. they like killing each other a lot.
    nice sharp steel into a guards neck.

    yet on the outside in society where we all function nicely, they are the exact same.

    i see zero reason in keeping dog shit going.
    reading posts like this makes me think that you have some serious anger and hatred in you. it is not healthy.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    ok ok ok.
    time for a talking to.

    dog shit is in prison.
    dog shit is in a cell 23 hours per day because dog shit can't behave.
    dog shit is loonier than a cartoon.
    dog shit is beyond mean and nasty.

    correctional officers are trying to make a living and protect society from dog shit.

    are you following me so far?
    still, do not stop using your brain.. stay with me here, ok?
    ok, good.

    while getting dog shit ready for his stroll to exercise or shower, dog shit fights and throws poop and piss on all the guards and stabs one with a filed down toothbrush and kicks one guard square in the balls.
    now the cert team is called in. "Correctional Emergency Response Team."

    even before the cert team shows up, both prisoner and guard(s) have broken bones, blood loss, which is fantastic in the modern day of HIV warfare. ankles are snapped. noses are fucked. eyeballs get poked. it is a bitch.
    this is a daily event. different convicts of course. but the same ones over and over never learn.

    cell removal:
    classic events in the making.
    straight violence at the highest in most cases.

    pepper spray is eaten for breakfast.
    electrical shock does zero to dog shit.

    "nice exercise pen, do you like stripping off all your clothes, shitting on the pen flooring and snearing it all over you and then refuse to come out so we have to come get your WORLD CHAMPION WRESTLING ASS?"

    nice homemade knives jammed into other dog shit's gut. they like killing each other a lot.
    nice sharp steel into a guards neck.

    yet on the outside in society where we all function nicely, they are the exact same.

    i see zero reason in keeping dog shit going.
    reading posts like this makes me think that you have some serious anger and hatred in you. it is not healthy.
    i have zero anger in me.
    i can however call upon anger when need be.
    im so mild and relaxed it is unreal.
    i do have days where i am 1/2 inch from exploding.
    i am great at calm and clarity.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    ok ok ok.
    time for a talking to.

    dog shit is in prison.
    dog shit is in a cell 23 hours per day because dog shit can't behave.
    dog shit is loonier than a cartoon.
    dog shit is beyond mean and nasty.

    correctional officers are trying to make a living and protect society from dog shit.

    are you following me so far?
    still, do not stop using your brain.. stay with me here, ok?
    ok, good.

    while getting dog shit ready for his stroll to exercise or shower, dog shit fights and throws poop and piss on all the guards and stabs one with a filed down toothbrush and kicks one guard square in the balls.
    now the cert team is called in. "Correctional Emergency Response Team."

    even before the cert team shows up, both prisoner and guard(s) have broken bones, blood loss, which is fantastic in the modern day of HIV warfare. ankles are snapped. noses are fucked. eyeballs get poked. it is a bitch.
    this is a daily event. different convicts of course. but the same ones over and over never learn.

    cell removal:
    classic events in the making.
    straight violence at the highest in most cases.

    pepper spray is eaten for breakfast.
    electrical shock does zero to dog shit.

    "nice exercise pen, do you like stripping off all your clothes, shitting on the pen flooring and snearing it all over you and then refuse to come out so we have to come get your WORLD CHAMPION WRESTLING ASS?"

    nice homemade knives jammed into other dog shit's gut. they like killing each other a lot.
    nice sharp steel into a guards neck.

    yet on the outside in society where we all function nicely, they are the exact same.

    i see zero reason in keeping dog shit going.
    reading posts like this makes me think that you have some serious anger and hatred in you. it is not healthy.
    btw, how does prison life make me seem angry?
    i don't understand
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    chadwick wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    ok ok ok.
    time for a talking to.

    dog shit is in prison.
    dog shit is in a cell 23 hours per day because dog shit can't behave.
    dog shit is loonier than a cartoon.
    dog shit is beyond mean and nasty.

    correctional officers are trying to make a living and protect society from dog shit.

    are you following me so far?
    still, do not stop using your brain.. stay with me here, ok?
    ok, good.

    while getting dog shit ready for his stroll to exercise or shower, dog shit fights and throws poop and piss on all the guards and stabs one with a filed down toothbrush and kicks one guard square in the balls.
    now the cert team is called in. "Correctional Emergency Response Team."

    even before the cert team shows up, both prisoner and guard(s) have broken bones, blood loss, which is fantastic in the modern day of HIV warfare. ankles are snapped. noses are fucked. eyeballs get poked. it is a bitch.
    this is a daily event. different convicts of course. but the same ones over and over never learn.

    cell removal:
    classic events in the making.
    straight violence at the highest in most cases.

    pepper spray is eaten for breakfast.
    electrical shock does zero to dog shit.

    "nice exercise pen, do you like stripping off all your clothes, shitting on the pen flooring and snearing it all over you and then refuse to come out so we have to come get your WORLD CHAMPION WRESTLING ASS?"

    nice homemade knives jammed into other dog shit's gut. they like killing each other a lot.
    nice sharp steel into a guards neck.

    yet on the outside in society where we all function nicely, they are the exact same.

    i see zero reason in keeping dog shit going.
    reading posts like this makes me think that you have some serious anger and hatred in you. it is not healthy.
    btw, how does prison life make me seem angry?
    i don't understand
    i have seen a lot of the prison documentaries from the supermax prisons on cable and in those documentaries nothing like what you say happens with the frequency you describe. i am sure if it did that would be on those shows because that would make for good tv and ratings. i realize those shows are heavily edited, but why would they edit out things like that when conventional wisdom says they usually embellish those situations? my former roommate was a corrections officer at a supermax prison in southern illinois and he read through this thread and he said in his 14 years of experience this type of thing happend a handful of times, but not nearly the frequency you are saying. calling everyone dog shit makes you seem very angry, or that you feel you are better than everyone else. either way, it is not healthy to think like that.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    1972 - 2002 = dad's years of service
    iowa state maximum security penitentiary
    oldest prison west of the mississippi river
    dad was lucky to never have been murdered while employeed by the state.
    everything i ever type in this thread is a fact.

    i grew up from day one around prison guards.
    if you believe i am full of shit you are insane.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    chadwick wrote:
    1972 - 2002 = dad's years of service
    iowa state maximum security penitentiary
    oldest prison west of the mississippi river
    dad was lucky to never have been murdered while employeed by the state.
    everything i ever type in this thread is a fact.

    i grew up from day one around prison guards.
    if you believe i am full of shit you are insane.
    i am glad your dad survived. i hope he didn't beat the prisoners and view them as subhuman with the same zest you seem to have for it. i never said you are full of shit. i just feel sorry for you because of the anger that seems to be inside of you. thats all..
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    1972 - 2002 = dad's years of service
    iowa state maximum security penitentiary
    oldest prison west of the mississippi river
    dad was lucky to never have been murdered while employeed by the state.
    everything i ever type in this thread is a fact.

    i grew up from day one around prison guards.
    if you believe i am full of shit you are insane.
    i am glad your dad survived. i hope he beat the prisoners and viewed them as subhuman with the same zest you seem to have for it. i never said you are full of shit. i just feel sorry for you because of the anger that seems to be inside of you. thats all..
    again, zero anger here.
    i am sure this is odd for some of you to believe but i resemble buddha, that's how calm i am.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    chadwick wrote:
    nazi ss and that entire crew should have been tossed into a volcano.
    wait...
    scratch that.
    that would make the volcano ill.

    take 'em out back behind the barn.

    :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
    nice work fellows

    Question: Do you think the Nazis believed their actions were acceptable since there was a reason behind them and they were sanctioned by the state?
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