the death penalty

1…3132343637…80

Comments

  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Any citizen "with rights" is free to live and breathe under the law within society. Any person who take's away that person's "right to live and be part of society" is removed and put into jail - that is why we have them. "Have another opportunity to take more lives" is merely a drastic flaw of society and our legal system - and in no way reflects people appreciation to give people a second change and reform themselves. With some crimes, people should be in jail for life and these are the types that we're discussing. Killing someone who doesn't see the wrong in their action, doesn't see the sanctity of life and freedom of others to live, does not care if they die, but if they knew they would simply rot in jail the rest of their lives, it would drastically teach a lesson to society and those carrying out such acts. I don't want to keep repeating myself, so please read this if you haven't. (http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=135469&start=600#p3077160)
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Not really. You are removing someone that has proven to be a killer from having the opportunity to take more lives.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,082
    i also felt terribly when i watched the live coverage of hussein's death. maybe because i felt it was the end of a long tragic story that everyone knew for 3 years was going to end that way? i don't know. i saw the cell phone video execution footage a few days after the hanging and heard the people berating saddam and chanting "muqtada, muqtada"....a very undignified way to die indeed. yes he was a bad man, but i still do not feel like anything was gained by his death that could not have been gained by locking him up for life. and no i am not a hussein supporter/apologist.

    i agree with several people on here that the state murdering someone will not bring the victims back, and it will not prevent them from killing again because they will be in jail and will only be a threat to other inmates if they are allowed in the general prison population. it costs more to put someone to death than it does to jail them for life. with our system there are appeals after appeals and the state has to pay to try those people time and time again.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    who are you guy's trying to convince ? in a state if a majority votes for it then it is what it is right ?
    and once that bullet is fired or the switch is thrown or the plunger pushed to the bottom it is what it is because the larger majority wanted it that way,if you want it changed then vote in that direction.
    there now wasn't that ez........bad horse ! :D

    Godfather.
    this is a state issue and every state has a provision for or against it in their state constitution. it is not like you can change it with a single vote. this sort of thing is done with legislation, or decree by the state governor, not voting.

    O.K thanks, how bout that break ? :D

    Godfather.
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    FiveB247x wrote:
    No because you're not teaching anyone the value of life, but simply reinforcing if you take one, you may lose your own. That's not the same lesson at all. And the people who typically commit crimes deemed worthy of such punishment don't value their own life - so no lesson or societal moral code is set. It sets forth the notion of not caring about the punishment, which also cheapens life as a whole, not properly reinforcing the idea that life is good, so don't take it away. It merely amounts to a punishment system based upon vengeance and convenience.

    I guess it is all how you look at it, as I see it saying that no one man's life is worth more than anothers, and when you take one through purposeful malicious actions, you are indeed required to give your own. All justice is based on vengeance.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Nowhere in "justice" is vengeance... that's merely our society's sick interpretation and practice of it...which is also why we have such a silly punishment in place. And if no one life is worth more than another, why is it ok for two wrongs to make a right?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/justice
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    I guess it is all how you look at it, as I see it saying that no one man's life is worth more than anothers, and when you take one through purposeful malicious actions, you are indeed required to give your own. All justice is based on vengeance.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    chadwick wrote:
    adolph hitler, the rest of the nazi SS
    and dr. joseph mengele (aka angel of death)
    all deserve to live?

    that is if they were alive today and captured.
    ...
    Does Werner von Braun fall into that category?
    He headed Germany's rocket program that created the V-1 and V-2 rockets that terrorized civilian populations in London... was a member of the Nazi Party and a commissioned officer in the SS. His program's manufacturing used slave labor from concentration camps... the manufacturing process of the V-1 and V-2 were responsible for more deaths than the weapons themselves.
    ...
    And now... there are monuments and buildings here in the U.S. that bear his name.
    ...
    Now... ask yourself that question again.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Any citizen "with rights" is free to live and breathe under the law within society. Any person who take's away that person's "right to live and be part of society" is removed and put into jail - that is why we have them. "Have another opportunity to take more lives" is merely a drastic flaw of society and our legal system - and in no way reflects people appreciation to give people a second change and reform themselves. With some crimes, people should be in jail for life and these are the types that we're discussing. Killing someone who doesn't see the wrong in their action, doesn't see the sanctity of life and freedom of others to live, does not care if they die, but if they knew they would simply rot in jail the rest of their lives, it would drastically teach a lesson to society and those carrying out such acts. I don't want to keep repeating myself, so please read this if you haven't. (http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=135469&start=600#p3077160)
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Not really. You are removing someone that has proven to be a killer from having the opportunity to take more lives.

    If you don;t want to keep repeating yourself stop making stupid comments about hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy there.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    A few months back I watch a great show about the creation, history and spread of nuclear weapons in the world. One of the areas they touched upon was this exact issue. Several of the people who created the weaponry basically knew they made something beyond their own grasp and it's development and use would reach beyond the power any one person or group should control. The same could be said about the invention of dynamite who never wanted it used for that kind or purpose.
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Does Werner von Braun fall into that category?
    He headed Germany's rocket program that created the V-1 and V-2 rockets that terrorized civilian populations in London... was a member of the Nazi Party and a commissioned officer in the SS. His program's manufacturing used slave labor from concentration camps... the manufacturing process of the V-1 and V-2 were responsible for more deaths than the weapons themselves.
    ...
    And now... there are monuments and buildings here in the U.S. that bear his name.
    ...
    Now... ask yourself that question again.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Sorry you don't agree but that's exactly what it is. You deem it differently because you feel the result is somehow equivalent or deserved, but that doesn't take away from it. Can't be for and against the same idea.. it's inconsistent and yes, hypocritical. Life is either valuable and no one should take it away, not even a government sanctioned law/punishment, or it is not valuable and if people break the laws, they will be killed just as they acted out (different manner, same result). The rest of the argument is mere double-talk and justification for carrying out a second wrong-doing.
    cincybearcat wrote:
    If you don;t want to keep repeating yourself stop making stupid comments about hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy there.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Sorry you don't agree but that's exactly what it is. You deem it differently because you feel the result is somehow equivalent or deserved, but that doesn't take away from it. Can't be for and against the same idea.. it's inconsistent and yes, hypocritical. Life is either valuable and no one should take it away, not even a government sanctioned law/punishment, or it is not valuable and if people break the laws, they will be killed just as they acted out (different manner, same result). The rest of the argument is mere double-talk and justification for carrying out a second wrong-doing.
    cincybearcat wrote:
    If you don;t want to keep repeating yourself stop making stupid comments about hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy there.


    This is exactly why it is difficult to have any meaningful discussion on difficult issues...I thought you were done posting?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    FiveB247x wrote:
    No because you're not teaching anyone the value of life, but simply reinforcing if you take one, you may lose your own. That's not the same lesson at all. And the people who typically commit crimes deemed worthy of such punishment don't value their own life - so no lesson or societal moral code is set. It sets forth the notion of not caring about the punishment, which also cheapens life as a whole, not properly reinforcing the idea that life is good, so don't take it away. It merely amounts to a punishment system based upon vengeance and convenience.

    I agree. The lesson isn't You can't take a life; the lesson is You can take a life only if you have a good reason. Totally different.
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    im back with the entertainment committee
    :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Glad you've returned, especially since you live in a state of nature where anyone can be killed or kill :lol:
    chadwick wrote:
    im back with the entertainment committee
    :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Glad you've returned, especially since you live in a state of nature where anyone can be killed or kill :lol:
    chadwick wrote:
    im back with the entertainment committee
    :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
    i believe in axes and fucking around
    i am not even kidding
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,082
    chadwick wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Glad you've returned, especially since you live in a state of nature where anyone can be killed or kill :lol:
    chadwick wrote:
    im back with the entertainment committee
    :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :shock: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
    i believe in axes and fucking around
    i am not even kidding
    you keep coming out for encores or something?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you keep coming out for encores or something?
    i couldn't play your guitars if u paid me
    i have no encores anywhere
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    :)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBfdl6hNZ9k
    chadwick wrote:
    i believe in axes and fucking around
    i am not even kidding
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Taking a life to show some sort of misguided punishment which is supposed to protect the sanctity of life isn't hypocrisy?



    doesn't it reinforce the value of life?

    if you take someone's stuff you get punished with a few years, you assault someone you get punished, but the only punishment that fits taking a life, is in deed getting yours taken from you. I would say it isn't hypocrisy at all, but more so a statement on how much another person's life is worth.

    no it does not reinforce the value of life. but then again i guess itd depend on your measure of value.

    if you steal, you dont have your things stolen from you as punishment. if you assault someone, you are not assaulted as punishment.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    cincybearcat wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Taking a life to show some sort of misguided punishment which is supposed to protect the sanctity of life isn't hypocrisy?
    cincybearcat wrote:
    How so?

    Not really. You are removing someone that has proven to be a killer from having the opportunity to take more lives.

    And if you could remove that person from having the opportunity to take more lives without killing him? Then what?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    FiveB247x wrote:
    A few months back I watch a great show about the creation, history and spread of nuclear weapons in the world. One of the areas they touched upon was this exact issue. Several of the people who created the weaponry basically knew they made something beyond their own grasp and it's development and use would reach beyond the power any one person or group should control. The same could be said about the invention of dynamite who never wanted it used for that kind or purpose.
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Does Werner von Braun fall into that category?
    He headed Germany's rocket program that created the V-1 and V-2 rockets that terrorized civilian populations in London... was a member of the Nazi Party and a commissioned officer in the SS. His program's manufacturing used slave labor from concentration camps... the manufacturing process of the V-1 and V-2 were responsible for more deaths than the weapons themselves.
    ...
    And now... there are monuments and buildings here in the U.S. that bear his name.
    ...
    Now... ask yourself that question again.

    Yes, and let's not forget all the innocent Americans who involuntarily lost their lives in the mining of uranium for those nuclear weapons, though the people making the bombs knew the consequences to the miners.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories