I've been trying to for days. I just don't think you will ever understand my stance, nor will I yours.
Bottom line for me is I don't see the point in the death penalty. What does it do? It costs more money for the taxpayer......it is PROVEN not to deter people from committing crimes that call for the DP.......I think making someone live in jail for the rest of their natural life is a very suitable punishment. It ain't club med, as you've well described. So why give the murderer the "easy" way out? Make the sick fuck suffer with Big Bubba in the shower for 30 years. Or put him in a mental institution if he belongs there. Whichever. The main issue is protection of society.
If you've got an animal behind bars, you don't need to shoot it so it won't bite you.
i am spinning
the light sounds like Sara
i remember the bad man behind the blue laser
the poet of execution
nowhere somewhere all at once
the swiftness then vanish
a head falls down'
a hole or half a neck
somehow a piece of sky opens the light a song at sleep no more real dreams of screaming
let it rest
For the record, I avoid killing bugs, slugs, snails, and chipmunks. Hell, I would even rather let a flower grow than pick it.
I agree with Scb, I would put down a dog if it was in pain and inevitably dying. That's it.
So I answered your questions.
Here's some for you:
1. Are you aware of the case of the West Memphis 3? Will you be so happy if/when Damien Echols is executed?
if you arent aware of the story, answer here first, then google it. He and three others were convicted of murdering and torturing 3 eight year old boys.
2. Lets say you are in a convenience store buying something, when all of a sudden someone comes in and strangles the clerk and kills him. You are left standing there and someone calls the police. Then you are implicated. Then some old person with poor vision says you matched the description of the person entering the store. Holy shit, now you're on Death Row! Still like the Death Penalty? I doubt it.
Oh goodie...we get to make up stories now.
Typical post from you. You jump into a thread with a snide remark.
Seriously pal, you really need to quit with the trolling.
Typical post from you...attacking me. I'm use to it. I was in the thread a long time, just been reading lately. Don't call me pal if you going to act like an ass.
in reference to the west memphis 3
with a case this fucked up by police mistakes
i would never execute
in fact
as stated before
only the easy one's should fry
it's not for every murder case
a confession
caught in the act
video proof
cell phone gps proof
any real proof
some murders do go unsolved
but to those who use this case as an anti-dp example
what do you say when there is a video of a murder that clearly shows the identity of the killer?
i know, i know
nobody should die
Unfortunately that’s not how it works. It has never worked like that and it doesn’t appear that it ever will work like that. This scenario you state doesn’t really have much bearing on this debate because it doesn’t exist.
"If murder is wrong, then it should be wrong for everyone"
murder is wrong
murder is murder
an execution is not murder if it is seen as punishment
don't want to get executed?
don't murder
Again, Damien Echols might not have murdered, but it is looking like the state ending his life is getting closer and closer.
Your two quotes here kinda seem to contradict each other in the sense that there have been innocent people executed. I don’t know, maybe we are arguing different points? You seem more hypothetical – like if it was up to you, 100% proof of murder = death penalty. My point is the DP as it is right now is a terribly flawed system and I don’t see the point if there are mistakes.
Not neccesarily. Most civilized countries have stopped it. The U.S is not a civilized country, and remains on the same moral level as Iran and China. The death penalty is barbaric and pointless, and as far as I'm concerned anyone who supports it is an immoral, shallow hypocrite.
Byrnzie, good point. I meant to bring that up too. I really can't see it being around forever, but thats just my opinion and my "hopes" talking.
Fact: For every 7 executions since 1976, 1 other prisoner on death row has been found innocent.
And you people are ok with this? FOURTEEN PERCENT POTENTIALLY WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS? And how many more that have not even been investigated before the sentence was carried out? These people have children, wives, husbands, parents, friends, but most importantly, LIVES. And this process STOLE THEIR LIFE FROM THEM. And ruined countless lives along with it.
That fact in itself should be enough to abolish the death penalty. If you are for the death penalty, you are for it in its current state, which is horribly flawed.
And that's even setting aside the immorality of killing ANY human being. It's just not our, as humans, choice to make. End of story.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
what would you do with it than?
and if it was your child and your dog?
It depends on the circumstances and I'm sure it would be a tough situation regardless. I'd probably give the dog away. But thankfully I don't have a kid or a dog so I'm not going to be in that situation.
I actually do have a somewhat vicious cat though. (I know, it's not the same.) The vets refuse to see him for their own safety. He once "attacked" my best friend's 3-year-old. Nearly got his eye (but he's fine now, without even a scar). You know what I did? I told my friend to teach her kids to not crawl face-first under small tables with animals and block them into corners.
yeah yeah yeah, give the dog to someone else so it can do it again. some of the statements on this thread are making really good entertainment to me and some friends.
Sorry for all of a sudden jumping in, but i've been reading this thread all along and just had to reply on this one.
Also, I don't understand how people buy into this theory that putting a dirtbag down is more expensive. We shelter and feed these dirtbags for their entire lives and then when they get old we spend BILLIONS of dollars to feed them meds trying to KEEP them alive and healthy for as long as possible.
I have to agree with chad and the liking. If it's a hands down case(DNA Evidence, confession, video, or witness) put a bullet in their head and be done with it.
Also, I don't understand how people buy into this theory that putting a dirtbag down is more expensive.
Some stats from my home state:
Florida Spends Millions Extra per Year on Death Penalty
Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, according to estimates by the Palm Beach Post. Based on the 44 executions Florida has carried out since 1976, that amounts to an approximate cost of $24 million for each execution. This finding takes into account the relatively few inmates who are actually executed, as well as the time and effort expended on capital defendants who are tried but convicted of a lesser murder charge, and those whose death sentences are overturned on appeal. ("The High Price of Killing Killers," Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000)
Florida Spent Average of $3.2 Million per Execution from 1973 to 1988
During that time period, Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty to achieve 18 executions. ("Bottom Line: Life in Prison One-Sixth as Expensive," Miami Herald, July 10, 1988)
Also, I don't understand how people buy into this theory that putting a dirtbag down is more expensive. We shelter and feed these dirtbags for their entire lives and then when they get old we spend BILLIONS of dollars to feed them meds trying to KEEP them alive and healthy for as long as possible.
Also, I don't understand how people buy into this theory that putting a dirtbag down is more expensive. We shelter and feed these dirtbags for their entire lives and then when they get old we spend BILLIONS of dollars to feed them meds trying to KEEP them alive and healthy for as long as possible.
I have to agree with chad and the liking. If it's a hands down case(DNA Evidence, confession, video, or witness) put a bullet in their head and be done with it.
champion...
that is your new screen name if you want it.
a piece of dog shit has better medical insurance than 3/4 of all the pearl jam 10c members.
Fact: For every 7 executions since 1976, 1 other prisoner on death row has been found innocent.
And you people are ok with this? FOURTEEN PERCENT POTENTIALLY WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS? And how many more that have not even been investigated before the sentence was carried out? These people have children, wives, husbands, parents, friends, but most importantly, LIVES. And this process STOLE THEIR LIFE FROM THEM. And ruined countless lives along with it.
That fact in itself should be enough to abolish the death penalty. If you are for the death penalty, you are for it in its current state, which is horribly flawed.
And that's even setting aside the immorality of killing ANY human being. It's just not our, as humans, choice to make. End of story.
I hear what you are saying and it is a real problem. Nobody wants to see an innocent person executed. Clearly, work needs to be done in a lot of areas to make sure cops and ivestigators of crime scenes actually do their jobs right. Someone said if it happens even once it is too much... however, what percent of violent people wind up hurting, raping, murdering another innocent person somewhere down the line? Recidivism rates in the US are over 50%. Why don't you take the same stance of if it happens even once, it is too much? People keep talking about wanting to act civilized, but prisons are not a civil environment. Almost nobody comes out of a hard-core prison as a better human being. And if they are sentenced for life, what is the point of wharehousing monsters and putting others at risk? It seems to me, we either truly try to mentally rehabilitate the sick, crazy, and cruel (and prisons do not do this) or we just end the suffering. Life in some festering prison is crueler than death.
And I still don't buy any kind of definitive morality about taking another life. Just because you feel that way, doesn't make it so.
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Also, I don't understand how people buy into this theory that putting a dirtbag down is more expensive. We shelter and feed these dirtbags for their entire lives and then when they get old we spend BILLIONS of dollars to feed them meds trying to KEEP them alive and healthy for as long as possible.
I have to agree with chad and the liking. If it's a hands down case(DNA Evidence, confession, video, or witness) put a bullet in their head and be done with it.
governors it's the legal system that makes it expensive.
governor(s), attorneys, every court legal suck up in the state, in the region.
prison wardens, media, prison staff.
twisted sick jerk off's medical care.
every high end bmw has to be paid for.
cadillac escalades?
every judge and governor need those nice retirement funds.
the legal system sucks.
i do however like lawyer jokes.
i personally can't wait to be the lawyer defending some piece of dog shit who's slaughtered 13 women and made shit out of their skins. quality quality and quality...
i think the thing i find most offensive about this thread, is the way some people are expressing themselves. why do some of the pro death penalty people feel the need to go into such violent and great detail about how they would like to dispose of the offender?
why can't you just say i support the death penalty. why do you have to act like an animal yourself with some of the terms you use?
I find that behavour disturbing and creepy. very creepy actually. almost like you would get great delight in seeing someones head get smashed to pieces. i'm sorry, but that's just sick. you can support the death penalty if that is how you feel, but the violence you describe, and the absolute delight you seem to have when saying it, is just sickening. really it is.
i personally can't wait to be the lawyer defending some piece of dog shit who's slaughtered 13 women and made shit out of their skins. quality quality and quality...
where is the swift bullet?
do we need 2 bullets?
why do you always feel the need to use extreme examples. seriously. why can't you just talk normally?
Fact: For every 7 executions since 1976, 1 other prisoner on death row has been found innocent.
And you people are ok with this? FOURTEEN PERCENT POTENTIALLY WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS? And how many more that have not even been investigated before the sentence was carried out? These people have children, wives, husbands, parents, friends, but most importantly, LIVES. And this process STOLE THEIR LIFE FROM THEM. And ruined countless lives along with it.
That fact in itself should be enough to abolish the death penalty. If you are for the death penalty, you are for it in its current state, which is horribly flawed.
And that's even setting aside the immorality of killing ANY human being. It's just not our, as humans, choice to make. End of story.
I hear what you are saying and it is a real problem. Nobody wants to see an innocent person executed. Clearly, work needs to be done in a lot of areas to make sure cops and ivestigators of crime scenes actually do their jobs right. Someone said if it happens even once it is too much... however, what percent of violent people wind up hurting, raping, murdering another innocent person somewhere down the line? Recidivism rates in the US are over 50%. Why don't you take the same stance of if it happens even once, it is too much? People keep talking about wanting to act civilized, but prisons are not a civil environment. Almost nobody comes out of a hard-core prison as a better human being. And if they are sentenced for life, what is the point of wharehousing monsters and putting others at risk? It seems to me, we either truly try to mentally rehabilitate the sick, crazy, and cruel (and prisons do not do this) or we just end the suffering. Life in some festering prison is crueler than death.
And I still don't buy any kind of definitive morality about taking another life. Just because you feel that way, doesn't make it so.
prison is an education in crime.
immates get hooked up with one another in there.
a convict in prison for selling kilos of cocaine has just been sent to a drug smuggling university.
that's one example.
sick freaks hook up and stroke each other off while daydreaming of torturing little kids when they get out.
quality.
i personally can't wait to be the lawyer defending some piece of dog shit who's slaughtered 13 women and made shit out of their skins. quality quality and quality...
where is the swift bullet?
do we need 2 bullets?
why do you always feel the need to use extreme examples. seriously. why can't you just talk normally?
because it is extreme!
are you without vision and hearing?
you do see the news, read the newspaper or the internet?
“Since 1973, 138 people have been exonerated and freed from death row. In
many of these cases, the appeals process was critical in overturning an unfair conviction and allowing a new trial at which the defendant was acquitted. In other cases, even the appeals failed to find evidence of innocence or a constitutional flaw in the process that led to conviction, but the process at least allowed for the passage of time, during which exonerating DNA evidence was discovered and tested, or the person actually responsible for the crime was identified. The average time between sentencing and exoneration was 9.8 years. If the appeals process were truncated there might not have been time for the mistakes to be found or new evidence to emerge. Most of the innocent people who were sentenced to death would have been executed before they could demonstrate their conviction was a mistake.”
Imagine how much they have to pay out to these people who have had their lives taken from them?
“The death penalty is on the decline across the country. Death sentences have
dropped dramatically since 2000. In the 1990s, the annual number of death sentences averaged close to 300, but in recent years the number is down to 115, a 62% drop. Skeptical juries concerned about innocence and the availability of life without parole sentences have played a part in this decline. The rising costs of the death penalty have caused some prosecutors not to seek the death penalty or to accept plea bargains. The current economic climate could accelerate this trend.”
--Also—
“The economic crisis that began in 2008 continues, and its impact on states will be felt for years to come. There is no reason the death penalty should be immune from reconsideration, along with other wasteful, expensive programs that no longer make sense. The promised benefits from the death penalty have not materialized. Deterrence is not credible; vengeance in the name of a few victims in a handful of states is both divisive and debilitating. If more states choose to end the death penalty, it will hardly be missed, and the economic savings will be significant. The positive programs that can be funded once this economic burden is lifted will be readily apparent. Such an approach would be smart on crime.”
these are all qoutes from:
Richard C. Dieter
Executive Director
Death Penalty Information Center
i personally can't wait to be the lawyer defending some piece of dog shit who's slaughtered 13 women and made shit out of their skins. quality quality and quality...
where is the swift bullet?
do we need 2 bullets?
why do you always feel the need to use extreme examples. seriously. why can't you just talk normally?
because it is extreme!
are you without vision and hearing?
you do see the news, read the newspaper or the internet?
sure i do. but i've never seen the article that talks of the person who slaughtered 13 women and made shit out of their skins.
would you execute a rapist who enjoys taking a dagger to a female's privates?
i'm pretty sure i've already said i am completely against capital punishment under any circumstances. the death penalty is inhumane, sick and barbaric.
would you execute a rapist who enjoys taking a dagger to a female's privates?
i'm pretty sure i've already said i am completely against capital punishment under any circumstances. the death penalty is inhumane, sick and barbaric.
ditto this...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
this is why i am amazed.
some of you have been existing in your lives, under a rock.
nobody would ever do those wild things you say, chad.
chadwick, you are stretching the story out of proportion
those nasty scary ppl don't exist, now stop it, nobody is that cruel.
would you execute a rapist who enjoys taking a dagger to a female's privates?
maybe he likes using broken wine bottles?
is this disgusting torturous piece of shit worth it?
he needs sent to a far off place.
one .357 crack will do it.
total cost:
$0.13
we made him pack his own bullet with the black powder wad shit lead whatever.
this is an unreal example and would never go down like that. and you know it.
happens pretty much all the time.
it's a fact.
i've seen the reports on tv, read about the crimes online or in a library at college
I think he's referring to the 13 cents to kill a man in light of the current costs. However, this is hypothetical, so you can suggest an alternate reality where once a person is proven or admitted atrocious guilt, they final solution is the cost of one bullet. No appeals allowed. Obviously, not how things really work.
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Comments
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Typical post from you...attacking me. I'm use to it. I was in the thread a long time, just been reading lately. Don't call me pal if you going to act like an ass.
Pm me if you have an issue with me.
Unfortunately that’s not how it works. It has never worked like that and it doesn’t appear that it ever will work like that. This scenario you state doesn’t really have much bearing on this debate because it doesn’t exist.
Again, Damien Echols might not have murdered, but it is looking like the state ending his life is getting closer and closer.
Your two quotes here kinda seem to contradict each other in the sense that there have been innocent people executed. I don’t know, maybe we are arguing different points? You seem more hypothetical – like if it was up to you, 100% proof of murder = death penalty. My point is the DP as it is right now is a terribly flawed system and I don’t see the point if there are mistakes.
Byrnzie, good point. I meant to bring that up too. I really can't see it being around forever, but thats just my opinion and my "hopes" talking.
And you people are ok with this? FOURTEEN PERCENT POTENTIALLY WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS? And how many more that have not even been investigated before the sentence was carried out? These people have children, wives, husbands, parents, friends, but most importantly, LIVES. And this process STOLE THEIR LIFE FROM THEM. And ruined countless lives along with it.
That fact in itself should be enough to abolish the death penalty. If you are for the death penalty, you are for it in its current state, which is horribly flawed.
And that's even setting aside the immorality of killing ANY human being. It's just not our, as humans, choice to make. End of story.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
yeah yeah yeah, give the dog to someone else so it can do it again. some of the statements on this thread are making really good entertainment to me and some friends.
Sorry for all of a sudden jumping in, but i've been reading this thread all along and just had to reply on this one.
I have to agree with chad and the liking. If it's a hands down case(DNA Evidence, confession, video, or witness) put a bullet in their head and be done with it.
Some stats from my home state:
Florida Spends Millions Extra per Year on Death Penalty
Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, according to estimates by the Palm Beach Post. Based on the 44 executions Florida has carried out since 1976, that amounts to an approximate cost of $24 million for each execution. This finding takes into account the relatively few inmates who are actually executed, as well as the time and effort expended on capital defendants who are tried but convicted of a lesser murder charge, and those whose death sentences are overturned on appeal. ("The High Price of Killing Killers," Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000)
Florida Spent Average of $3.2 Million per Execution from 1973 to 1988
During that time period, Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty to achieve 18 executions. ("Bottom Line: Life in Prison One-Sixth as Expensive," Miami Herald, July 10, 1988)
yeah, because witnesses are always 100% credible? :roll:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
that is your new screen name if you want it.
a piece of dog shit has better medical insurance than 3/4 of all the pearl jam 10c members.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I hear what you are saying and it is a real problem. Nobody wants to see an innocent person executed. Clearly, work needs to be done in a lot of areas to make sure cops and ivestigators of crime scenes actually do their jobs right. Someone said if it happens even once it is too much... however, what percent of violent people wind up hurting, raping, murdering another innocent person somewhere down the line? Recidivism rates in the US are over 50%. Why don't you take the same stance of if it happens even once, it is too much? People keep talking about wanting to act civilized, but prisons are not a civil environment. Almost nobody comes out of a hard-core prison as a better human being. And if they are sentenced for life, what is the point of wharehousing monsters and putting others at risk? It seems to me, we either truly try to mentally rehabilitate the sick, crazy, and cruel (and prisons do not do this) or we just end the suffering. Life in some festering prison is crueler than death.
And I still don't buy any kind of definitive morality about taking another life. Just because you feel that way, doesn't make it so.
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I have to say Chadwick, as much as I disagree with you, you crack me up.
governor(s), attorneys, every court legal suck up in the state, in the region.
prison wardens, media, prison staff.
twisted sick jerk off's medical care.
every high end bmw has to be paid for.
cadillac escalades?
every judge and governor need those nice retirement funds.
the legal system sucks.
i do however like lawyer jokes.
i personally can't wait to be the lawyer defending some piece of dog shit who's slaughtered 13 women and made shit out of their skins. quality quality and quality...
where is the swift bullet?
do we need 2 bullets?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
why can't you just say i support the death penalty. why do you have to act like an animal yourself with some of the terms you use?
I find that behavour disturbing and creepy. very creepy actually. almost like you would get great delight in seeing someones head get smashed to pieces. i'm sorry, but that's just sick. you can support the death penalty if that is how you feel, but the violence you describe, and the absolute delight you seem to have when saying it, is just sickening. really it is.
carry on
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
prison is an education in crime.
immates get hooked up with one another in there.
a convict in prison for selling kilos of cocaine has just been sent to a drug smuggling university.
that's one example.
sick freaks hook up and stroke each other off while daydreaming of torturing little kids when they get out.
quality.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
are you without vision and hearing?
you do see the news, read the newspaper or the internet?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documen ... timony.pdf
I found three things that stood out to me:
“Since 1973, 138 people have been exonerated and freed from death row. In
many of these cases, the appeals process was critical in overturning an unfair conviction and allowing a new trial at which the defendant was acquitted. In other cases, even the appeals failed to find evidence of innocence or a constitutional flaw in the process that led to conviction, but the process at least allowed for the passage of time, during which exonerating DNA evidence was discovered and tested, or the person actually responsible for the crime was identified. The average time between sentencing and exoneration was 9.8 years. If the appeals process were truncated there might not have been time for the mistakes to be found or new evidence to emerge. Most of the innocent people who were sentenced to death would have been executed before they could demonstrate their conviction was a mistake.”
Imagine how much they have to pay out to these people who have had their lives taken from them?
“The death penalty is on the decline across the country. Death sentences have
dropped dramatically since 2000. In the 1990s, the annual number of death sentences averaged close to 300, but in recent years the number is down to 115, a 62% drop. Skeptical juries concerned about innocence and the availability of life without parole sentences have played a part in this decline. The rising costs of the death penalty have caused some prosecutors not to seek the death penalty or to accept plea bargains. The current economic climate could accelerate this trend.”
--Also—
“The economic crisis that began in 2008 continues, and its impact on states will be felt for years to come. There is no reason the death penalty should be immune from reconsideration, along with other wasteful, expensive programs that no longer make sense. The promised benefits from the death penalty have not materialized. Deterrence is not credible; vengeance in the name of a few victims in a handful of states is both divisive and debilitating. If more states choose to end the death penalty, it will hardly be missed, and the economic savings will be significant. The positive programs that can be funded once this economic burden is lifted will be readily apparent. Such an approach would be smart on crime.”
these are all qoutes from:
Richard C. Dieter
Executive Director
Death Penalty Information Center
Did you hear about that bastard out in Idaho who had basically enslaved an army of children to work in his acid mine? Sick fuck!
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maybe he likes using broken wine bottles?
is this disgusting torturous piece of shit worth it?
he needs sent to a far off place.
one .357 crack will do it.
total cost:
$0.13
we made him pack his own bullet with the black powder wad shit lead whatever.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
it's a fact.
i've seen the reports on tv, read about the crimes online or in a library at college
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
some of you have been existing in your lives, under a rock.
nobody would ever do those wild things you say, chad.
chadwick, you are stretching the story out of proportion
those nasty scary ppl don't exist, now stop it, nobody is that cruel.
:twisted: oh yes they are :evil:
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I think he's referring to the 13 cents to kill a man in light of the current costs. However, this is hypothetical, so you can suggest an alternate reality where once a person is proven or admitted atrocious guilt, they final solution is the cost of one bullet. No appeals allowed. Obviously, not how things really work.
Please Support My Writing Habit By Purchasing A Book:
https://www.createspace.com/3437020
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000663025696
http://earthtremors.blogspot.com/