God... Christ... The Bible

Slickness · January 2010

How can any idiot believe in god (I can't even begin the word in a capital letter!)?! There is just WAY too much to go against the idea of god. Come on people, wake up!

cornnifer · January 2010

Cosmo wrote:

[
Humans share the same evolutionary branch as the apes... in fact, we can classify ourselves as the greatest of the great apes..

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

Anon · January 2010

Matthew 17:20- If you have faith as small as a mustard seed...NOTHING will be impossible for you.

From Webster's: Faith-firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Someone asked a little further up the thread if we have solved this, or come to a conclusion etc.

This is an argument that will NEVER EVER EVER be solved. You either have faith or you don't. The argument of "PROOF" just doesn't apply to matters of faith. Those with faith do not need proof that their God exists. We believe in our hearts because of our faith.

For you on the other side of the divide here, you can come back with Kristy, you can't feel it, you can't see it, you cannot hold it in your hands... GOD DOES NOT EXIST. And I will respond, yes, but I have FAITH that he does... We can do this dance for pages and pages on this thread (we are 20+ pages and counting).

Now why do people have faith or not is what should really be discussed. How did you get to the point where you said I have faith or I don't. Some derogatory remarks get tossed at people with faith (I think this thread alone Ive been called an idiot, a moron, stupid, etc.), and that is such a shame because I have a powerful story of why I have faith as Im sure many of you have a powerful story of why you dont.

Faith you either have it or you don't and evidence isnt necessary for the faithful.

CJMST3K · January 2010

IMakeUSmile wrote:

Matthew 17:20- If you have faith as small as a mustard seed...NOTHING will be impossible for you.

So, if someone has faith in Buddah, nothing will be impossible for that person. Correct?

Anon · January 2010

CJMST3K wrote:

IMakeUSmile wrote:

Matthew 17:20- If you have faith as small as a mustard seed...NOTHING will be impossible for you.

So, if someone has faith in Buddah, nothing will be impossible for that person. Correct?

Well, clearly that is a quote from the Bible and I use it to apply to my faith. The verses surrounding that one are about not having faith in God and I find it encouraging that even a tiny bit goes a long way.

I would assume that people who have FAITH in their God (Buddha, Mohammad, or Goddess and so on) have faith for a reason and I would hope that their faith lets them live lives where they feel they can accomplish great things with that faith in their heart.

CJMST3K · January 2010

IMakeUSmile wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

IMakeUSmile wrote:

Matthew 17:20- If you have faith as small as a mustard seed...NOTHING will be impossible for you.

So, if someone has faith in Buddah, nothing will be impossible for that person. Correct?

Well, clearly that is a quote from the Bible and I use it to apply to my faith. The verses surrounding that one are about not having faith in God and I find it encouraging that even a tiny bit goes a long way.

I would assume that people who have FAITH in their God (Buddha, Mohammad, or Goddess and so on) have faith for a reason and I would hope that their faith lets them live lives where they feel they can accomplish great things with that faith in their heart.

Ok. Then for a Christian, who has faith, nothing will be impossible for that person. Is that correct?

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

Cosmo wrote:

Wrong... according to who?
Al Qaeda can argue that they are fighting the evils of Western Imperialistic expansion that sucks up the resources from under their homeland and pays it to corrupt Monarchs or governemnts, leaving the people who live there in poverty. That Western Civilization worships Dollah, not Allah... sexual deviation... corrupt, decadent and away from the light of God. The United States is the modern day Rome... the modern day Goliath that needs to be taken down before it spreads its decadence to everyone.
Is their point right or wrong?
Answer: I depends on where you sit.

I agree with you on that I think the book of Revelation chapter 18 prophecy clearly descibes the USA as the great city of Babylon. We will fall and burn to the ground. Politics is the worst religion on the planet. We have led the world and they have drank from our cup becoming drunk on wantoness. I put my faith in one Man.

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

cornnifer wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

[
Humans share the same evolutionary branch as the apes... in fact, we can classify ourselves as the greatest of the great apes..

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

Ironicly we also share the hearts of pigs. Never really knowing our true nature of wallowing in the mire.

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

FiveB247x wrote:

This is not morality. This is: In some countries, female genitile mutilation is accepted and others it is not. Now, are we to believe a god/creator somehow told one group in one area that this practice is ok, compared the opposite in another? Or how about specific things like rights/freedoms? Why is it so many religious people say these or their morals come from god, yet everyone has a different meaning and definition on what they specifically mean or include? Doesn't add up in the end and is just another fact that god does not exist or even at best case scenario, did a very poor job.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

You could say that peoples morals are differnent. For example if YOU go around killing people you could say its not wrong because you dont feel moraly wrong doing it. I gaurantee you if someone came and tried to kill you, you would think hey wait a minute thats not right. Its only when it happens to us do we feel those morals that ARE infact ingrained in every human.

So if we all deep down have those morals in us the perscription has to have a perscriber.

We've already established that if God does or doesnt exist he is unlike us. Not understandable by us. Just like the ape able to chew the skin off the golf ball. Different

I guarantee that if it was mutilation toward the man, that man would say wait this is wrong. That ingrainment only truely surfaces when whatever is at question is afflicted toward us personally. I'm asking where that comes from? Sure a whole controlling male population could think its right to do that but someone there being afflicted thinks its wrong.

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

CJMST3K wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I work with baboons

Oh, crap.

You're the "I work with baboons" guy.

The same one from this thread: http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.ph ... s#p2724959

The one who said "Baboons don't have souls". That said baboons have "no emotion". That said "they show no levels of pain when they are hurt". That "a dog whines when they are hurt but its a simplistic reaction to a cause".

...sorry. I thought I had a chance to have an intelligent conversation with you. Your take on animals and that they are just mindless machines has convinced me otherwise.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I work with baboons and they dont ask me where the food comes from they just accept it and eat it.

I think your answer below answers that pretty simply.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

First of all animals that are tested in research facilities arent just pulled from the wild. They are specifically bread for the purpose of testing.

...so, why would a baboon question where it comes from, when it's always just arrived?

You can pick and choose quotes from completely different arguments all you want. So the same reason one in the wild doesnt question where it comes from because it was always there. They cant think higher then the level they were made to think. We are similar to them in a lot of ways, mainly selfishness and instictual survivability. In the same way we euthanise these animals after conducting experiments to futher the human race's survivability they would infact, if to survive, kill you. The difference between them and I is I feel bad about it, they dont. This is a completely different arguement but yes I am that and yet I have no knowledge of science. I assure you after spending more hours of my life then I'd like to think about animals other than humans infact have no soul or basis of morality. I didnt evolve from them I was created different.

Maybe if people were able to spend a little time around these animals and not just take scientist word for everything, by scientist I mean men who get funding and flaw experiments to keep the funding coming, people would realize and not just take scientist word for it. You are puting your faith in mens theory by believing evolution, I am puting my faith in the Man who said he was the only Truth from God. So we are similar, but different.

FiveB247x · January 2010

So basically you're saying because men run the world and have setup the laws and traditions within their cultures, things outside of their realm, don't really effect them or they don't care to change? Minorities and non-christian males have been slaves in christian nations throughout history, does this mean they believe slavery is ok, therefore god didn't give them the correct morality to figure it out on their own? And before you respond, I understand that many believe god created man and isn't responsible for mans' actions, but with that stated, if god made man with specific, predisposition to morals as you state, wouldn't we not see these types of things throughout history? According to your comments, gods' morality is no different from maturnal instance (untaught, but inherint in the person), yet results and actions speak otherwise.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I guarantee that if it was mutilation toward the man, that man would say wait this is wrong. That ingrainment only truely surfaces when whatever is at question is afflicted toward us personally. I'm asking where that comes from? Sure a whole controlling male population could think its right to do that but someone there being afflicted thinks its wrong.

Gern Blansten · January 2010

cornnifer wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

[
Humans share the same evolutionary branch as the apes... in fact, we can classify ourselves as the greatest of the great apes..

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

disagree that AR has people scratching their heads.....come on man....just because that is your opinion doesn't make it so

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

so, how about, instead of dancing around the question, do you believe that (to put it ultra-simply) humans evolved from apes or not? or do you take the bible literally that we are all the children of adam and eve? if that's the case, how all the people who aren't white (or whichever race they were) got on earth is a mystery to me.

Cosmo · January 2010

cornnifer wrote:

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

...
The thing is... Science does raise questions that crop up from new discoveries. And I will question, too. Science is about learning about our natural world and the mechanics of it.
What was the last question that was raised about the Bible by the church?
Is it a fair assessment to question one... and take the other as absolute truth?
...
And please... the use of the term 'Cherry picking' by someone triyng to defend religion? 'Cherry picking'? Really?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

You can pick and choose quotes from completely different arguments all you want. So the same reason one in the wild doesnt question where it comes from because it was always there. They cant think higher then the level they were made to think. We are similar to them in a lot of ways, mainly selfishness and instictual survivability. In the same way we euthanise these animals after conducting experiments to futher the human race's survivability they would infact, if to survive, kill you. The difference between them and I is I feel bad about it, they dont. This is a completely different arguement but yes I am that and yet I have no knowledge of science. I assure you after spending more hours of my life then I'd like to think about animals other than humans infact have no soul or basis of morality. I didnt evolve from them I was created different.

Maybe if people were able to spend a little time around these animals and not just take scientist word for everything, by scientist I mean men who get funding and flaw experiments to keep the funding coming, people would realize and not just take scientist word for it. You are puting your faith in mens theory by believing evolution, I am puting my faith in the Man who said he was the only Truth from God. So we are similar, but different.

you admit to having no knowledge of science, yet you judge it as a falsehood. and then you turn around and tell us if we just spent a little time listening to the message of god (which many of us have in the past) we'd be convinced. how can you not see how hypocritical that is?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

How can we develop faith if we have no need for it?

Why do we all have an appendix, which has no known use?

Thats like saying why do we logically think, feel emotion, even exist if we came out of nowhere for no reason and evolved from lower life forms without a purpose? God knows the reason for the appendix. I know the reason for life. The opposing view of life is we live and die for no purpose or reason, random chance. This life means nothing and exists for nothing, which is similar to your view of the appendix. To this view "living it up" while you are here is all you have.

this is the part I have been trying to tell you is so insulting. this "I pity you because life without god is 'all you have' " shit gets under my skin.

you need god to feel complete. I do not. yet I do not pity you and/or your existence. my brother used to be like you, but he has since realized that this way of going about things to spread the message is wrong. whatever you need/want to get through life is your perogitive. so I would expect the same respect from someone who claims to spread the message of god/christ/the ghost, which is "judge not".

Remember that one? unfortunately, the commandments seem to have a loophole, an asterisk if you will, when "god tells you" that's not what you are actually doing.

to me, the idea that we are here for one reason and one reason only, solely for some god's amusement, is ridiculously pathetic. not all religious people believe this, but I have to question those that do.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

and you also site the fact that some scientists have been found to alter findings in order to appease their sponsors. I'm sure that's true in some cases. You don't think that the vatican holds things back that would hurt their agenda?

if you actually believe that the Catholic religion (or any religion) is free from corruption, god needs to get you some glasses.

Cosmo · January 2010

cornnifer wrote:

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

...
I checked up briefly on Ardipithicus Ramidus... why does is shake the theory of evolution, in your opinion? It just seems to be another in the Evolutionary scale... one of the earliest hominids.
And I hope you realize... that bipeds live along side with quadripeds (4 legged animals, such as horses, ox and wolves)... and have lived along side with them for millions of years, right?
...
Update:
I'll go look for the t-shirts...
I can't find any t-shirts. Please, send me someplace to find one of these shirts that you always see.

Gern Blansten · January 2010

yeah I looked over some info too and the first fossils for AR were discovered almost 20 years ago....

Gern Blansten · January 2010

Cosmo wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

...
I checked up briefly on Ardipithicus Ramidus... why does is shake the theory of evolution, in your opinion? It just seems to be another in the Evolutionary scale... one of the earliest hominids.
And I hope you realize... that bipeds live along side with quadripeds (4 legged animals, such as horses, ox and wolves)... and have lived along side with them for millions of years, right?
...
Update:
I'll go look for the t-shirts...
I can't find any t-shirts. Please, send me someplace to find one of these shirts that you always see.

reminds me of the Yield tour t-shirts with a crude evolutionary scale on the back.....I've been trying to find one on Ebay

God... Christ... The Bible

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