God... Christ... The Bible

Pepe Silvia

Johnny Sitar wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I think any reasonable religious person would have to admit, even if at best case scenario the below is true:

1 - God is an absentee landlord
2 - God didn't do a very thorough job

In regards to 1, if we are to believe there is a god and he created all the universe and everything within it (people, animals, miracles, laws, etc), then we must wonder what is the point? Is it really to challenge us and not control free will? Or to give free will in wait of punishment? At best, seems very spiteful. According to religious texts (bible, koran, etc), gods rules and punishments seem outdated, sexist and vengeful. Seems to me this part is more of a sign of the times when it was written (by people), compared to ordained by god or a creator/being.

In regards to 2, if we are to believe there is a god and he created all the universe and everything within it (people, animal, miracles, laws, etc), then we must wonder what kind of judgement this god has. Are we to believe he merely watches, listens and acknowledges all that goes on in the world, but at the same time sits on his hands, or unjustly punishes innocents to make a point or test their faith? Are we to believe that god doesn't like women or minorities and that's why over the course of history they've been tested more than some others? Doesn't seem very logical that different groups of people have different levels of testing of faith and resolve, all to end up in the same two places (heaven/hell). Seems to me that that these glaring ommisions seem to be more a sign of the times and practices of when these religious texts and beliefs came to be compared to some life altering intervention which is known as a doctrine of kindness, fairness and a path to the afterlife.

excellently put.

i'd like to add 2 more options

3 - God is a dead beat dad
4 - God has some imbalance where he's all about love one minute and anger and retribution the next while telling you will always be a bad person no matter what and if it weren't for him you'd be nothing

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

How can we develop faith if we have no need for it?

Why do we all have an appendix, which has no known use?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

god was obviously created by man, because he makes no sense. At the very least, bi polar. Or maybe an alcoholic. "I'm an all loving and all forgiving god (pre-rye), but you stinkin' little bastards better do as I say or else! (post-rye)".

EddieLedBetter

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

How can we develop faith if we have no need for it?

Why do we all have an appendix, which has no known use?

Thats like saying why do we logically think, feel emotion, even exist if we came out of nowhere for no reason and evolved from lower life forms without a purpose? God knows the reason for the appendix. I know the reason for life. The opposing view of life is we live and die for no purpose or reason, random chance. This life means nothing and exists for nothing, which is similar to your view of the appendix. To this view "living it up" while you are here is all you have.

EddieLedBetter

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

dunkman

why did god just kill all of those Haitians? Obviously millions believe god made the earth. So why did he construct it with giant fucking fault lines on it which would indeed kill thousands of innocent people?

nice god isnt he.

he still stands

dunkman wrote:

why did god just kill all of those Haitians? Obviously millions believe god made the earth. So why did he construct it with giant fucking fault lines on it which would indeed kill thousands of innocent people?

nice god isnt he.

He loved them haitians so much that he wanted them back in his kingdom. duh.

"If you REALLY believe in heaven and that you'll be in eternal bliss when you die, WHY DO YOU WEAR A FUCKING SEATBELT?!?!"

FiveB247x

This still goes back to the fact of creationism - a supreme being out of the blue, one day began the universe. But it does not account for where that being/god came from. Eve came from Adam's rib, Adam came from god, where did god come from? Bit of a glaring hole in creationism wouldn't you say? Albeit I recognize the big bang and other sciences have missing pieces, but these pieces are slowly being filled in over time, and at some point we can have a definite answer on where the universe came from and started..a scientific, factual answer... but to merely accept some being/god just showed up out of left field and created everything..just because... it leaves lots to the imagination and little in detail at best. And yes, it just goes back to arguement about faith and belief.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

markin ball

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

The mechanical pencil wasn't intelligently designed. Have you ever used one of those things? The lead always breaks off! Seriously, though. Maybe it came out of nowhere and is eternal like God. Maybe it just "occured", like God. Can't have it both ways, you know.

he still stands

the whole mechanical pencil thing made my brain hurt.

Just remember that there doesn't always have to be cause and effect.... and at one point there was no such thing as time or space (and some day there won't be anymore). Nobody knows what there was "before it all" NOBODY NOBODY... nobody can predict what random occurences will happen (i.e. at the subatomic level or the level of the ginormous).... and your stupid opinions are flowing out like poop from your gaping maws.

The only answer is.... I DON'T FUCKING KNOW.

Fucking christ I need a beer....

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

why would we believe anything from anyone who doesn't even have a basic knowledge of biology and/or anthropology?

EddieLedBetter

Gern Blansten wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

why would we believe anything from anyone who doesn't even have a basic knowledge of biology and/or anthropology?

Why do we put unqualified people in political offices? Anyone who went to school for anytime at all has a basic knowledge of biology and anthropology. Hell anyone with the internet can have a basic knowledge of anything.

FiveB247x wrote:

This still goes back to the fact of creationism - a supreme being out of the blue, one day began the universe. But it does not account for where that being/god came from. Eve came from Adam's rib, Adam came from god, where did god come from? Bit of a glaring hole in creationism wouldn't you say? Albeit I recognize the big bang and other sciences have missing pieces, but these pieces are slowly being filled in over time, and at some point we can have a definite answer on where the universe came from and started..a scientific, factual answer... but to merely accept some being/god just showed up out of left field and created everything..just because... it leaves lots to the imagination and little in detail at best. And yes, it just goes back to arguement about faith and belief.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

I can look at things we create and know that something created it. I dont know who but I know someone did. I logically know that just because I cant see the guy who did, he still exists.

Cosmo

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

...
Humans share the same evolutionary branch as the apes... in fact, we can classify ourselves as the greatest of the great apes. I sort of see where you are trying to go with your analogy... but, pencils do not evolve... they are re-designed utilizing new ideas. And technically... you CAN crap in your hand and throw it at people if you want to. Things you cannot do... chew the skin off a golf ball or grip a banana with your foot.
As for us... the Earth was not always here... and will not always be here. We are experiencing a brief period (relative to the Earth's age) where the planet is at the right place, orbiting the right sized star from the right distance to sustain the diversity of life we see. There will be the day when the Earth's inner core will cool and it will be reuced to a lifeless barren rock, hurtling through space... or when the Sun cools an expands, consuming the terrestrial planets. That is not design... that is chance. I believe we are not here by design... we are here by chance.
That does not make our lives meaningless... it makes it wonderful. We should spend our brief time here, as shepperds to the planet and take care of each other as part of her. We should not box God into our corner so we can claim solely as ours... God is for everyone to love... not just Christians... not just Jews... not just one religion. To try to do so... well, in my opinion, cheapens Him. and I do not believe God intends us to be tools for Him to use... we are here to share and enjoy the creation of this brief existance.
I believe God created Life... that is the image we share... along with all living things. Life evolved from bacteria to celled animals to bugs and fish and eventually, humans. Can I prove it? I don't have to because that is my leap of faith.

FiveB247x

That's pretty much a non-answer.

For example, a mountain isn't created by a being/god or person (intelegent design), it's platetechtonics at work, a long series of scientific events which led to its formation, growth and being. In other words, the evolution of birth to current being. Are we to assume from your below statement, that you or other religious people merely look at a mountain and say it is there because a being/god created it or created the process for it, therefore, that's why it is? Now mind, you, we all know scientific fact to why the process takes place from beginning to end. Basically in a nutshell, this is a perfect example of how a being/ god didn't create the universe and everything within it, because we know all aspects of the scenario, yet you argue that since a god had to create the universe and everything within it, defy science and logic? And in this example, a direct opposition to facts that we know and recognize which is polar opposite of what the creation/god doctrine says.

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I can look at things we create and know that something created it. I dont know who but I know someone did. I logically know that just because I cant see the guy who did, he still exists.

Pepe Silvia

Cosmo wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

...
Humans share the same evolutionary branch as the apes... in fact, we can classify ourselves as the greatest of the great apes. I sort of see where you are trying to go with your analogy... but, pencils do not evolve... they are re-designed utilizing new ideas. And technically... you CAN crap in your hand and throw it at people if you want to. Things you cannot do... chew the skin off a golf ball or grip a banana with your foot.
As for us... the Earth was not always here... and will not always be here. We are experiencing a brief period (relative to the Earth's age) where the planet is at the right place, orbiting the right sized star from the right distance to sustain the diversity of life we see. There will be the day when the Earth's inner core will cool and it will be reuced to a lifeless barren rock, hurtling through space... or when the Sun cools an expands, consuming the terrestrial planets. That is not design... that is chance. I believe we are not here by design... we are here by chance.
That does not make our lives meaningless... it makes it wonderful. We should spend our brief time here, as shepperds to the planet and take care of each other as part of her. We should not box God into our corner so we can claim solely as ours... God is for everyone to love... not just Christians... not just Jews... not just one religion. To try to do so... well, in my opinion, cheapens Him. and I do not believe God intends us to be tools for Him to use... we are here to share and enjoy the creation of this brief existance.
I believe God created Life... that is the image we share... along with all living things. Life evolved from bacteria to celled animals to bugs and fish and eventually, humans. Can I prove it? I don't have to because that is my leap of faith.

we're also slowly drifting away from the sun

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Why do we put unqualified people in political offices? Anyone who went to school for anytime at all has a basic knowledge of biology and anthropology. Hell anyone with the internet can have a basic knowledge of anything.

my point was that by you stating you don't believe in evolution you are putting a gigantic stamp on your head to discount everything you say

even the catholic church accepts evolution....you saying it didn't happen is like you saying there is no such thing as gravity

CJMST3K

EddieLedBetter wrote:

By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people.

Cosmo wrote:

And technically... you CAN crap in your hand and throw it at people if you want to. Things you cannot do... chew the skin off a golf ball or grip a banana with your foot.

You'd make a bad pencil Cosmo. ...but your logic is correct.

Cosmo

Pepe Silvia wrote:

we're also slowly drifting away from the sun

...
Exactly. What kind of intelligent design is that? It is built-in obselences. Built to die.
My opinion is that Mankind has to great an opinion of himself. That is why he created a God with the same image... placed himself at the center and made himself the most important pet of God.
To say He created the Universe is one thing... but why make it so damn big, if all of God's focus is on a tiny speck of dust, circling a mediocre star, in an average sized galaxy? If God is running the Universe, I suppose He would be too busy to worry about who wins a Grammy or hits a home run.
I believe God only provided an environment that allowed the planet to form and sustain life. We are given the opportunity to live.. as humans. Maybe, we should be enjoying our time there because it ain't going to be forever.

CJMST3K

The idea of God gives people comfort. It also gives people resolution that its all in "someone else's" hands, and allows them to be ok with a lack of control. And it makes people a little less fearful at the time they die, hoping that there's something afterwards other than nothingness.

he still stands

Pepe Silvia wrote:

we're also slowly drifting away from the sun

slowly being pulled toward the sun, actually. Although it is almost immeasurable and doesn't matter... because our sun will have become a red giant and engulfed the earth before we are ever "pulled" into the sun. Several billion years after that, our solar system (or what is left of it; mostly gas) will be pulled into the black hole that lies in the middle of the milky way. (my opinion is that there is a black hole in the center of EVERY galaxy) You may be thinking of the universe in general... which is expanding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity