The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death.
so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death.
so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.
No one becomes a believer unless called by the spirit. The spirit is never wrong in reasoning. Everyone dies; its where your spirit transcends to after death that matters. You dont believe you burn in eternal torment not because of God but because of YOU.
Yes now you finally get it. The only evil that exists is because of man himself.
Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death.
so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.
No one becomes a believer unless called by the spirit. The spirit is never wrong in reasoning. Everyone dies; its where your spirit transcends to after death that matters. You dont believe you burn in eternal torment not because of God but because of YOU.
Yes now you finally get it. The only evil that exists is because of man himself.
I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.
I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.
Get it?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also
I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.
I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.
Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.
And who is angry at god, exactly?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.
I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.
Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also
I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.
I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.
Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.
And who is angry at god, exactly?
I will comment what I want when I want ! and in my experience non believers are virulent in shoving thier views down peoples throats how ever my question was why start with christ ? if you do not believe in a god then thats your perogative I think its just easier to pick apart christains then jews or moslems like I said wouldn't want to oftend and like I said human kind probably can not handle the truth
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.
I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.
Get it?
You still havent answered what is evil?
yes I did, and you responded with your "yes, you finally get it" BS:
"as far as I'm concerned, the only evil that exists in the world comes from man himself."
And that's with regards to my definition of evil. With regards to yours (Satan), I don't believe it exists.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.
I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.
Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.
And who is angry at god, exactly?
You have been condescending to me throughout this, you think I am ignorant. I think it is more ignorant to put belief in theory than in human eyewitness account and spiritual experience.
We are insistant because our God told us through hundreds of men who died getting this message out to us that it is the truth and we see how the world tries to debunk the truth. He didnt tell us "you'll see the truth and the truth will set you free" for nothing. So am I more ignorant because I put faith in something I have experienced working in my life or you putting faith in theory ultimately gambling with your souls final destination? Believers arent the ones blindly following a lie. The world is. We are insistant because we want you to see what we have seen. We dont want you in eternal torment the rest of eternity.
The thing is we as humans cant convince you to believe the truth you have to search for it yourself and the Spirit will lead you. All you have to do is turn off your worldly blinders and open yourself to God.
Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also
I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.
I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.
Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.
And who is angry at god, exactly?
I will comment what I want when I want ! and in my experience non believers are virulent in shoving thier views down peoples throats how ever my question was why start with christ ? if you do not believe in a god then thats your perogative I think its just easier to pick apart christains then jews or moslems like I said wouldn't want to oftend and like I said human kind probably can not handle the truth
oh, don't get all hissy. yes, you can comment when you want, but if you are going to make some claim that has no basis in fact with regards to the previous postings, you are only making yourself look bad.
I answered your question about starting off with Christ. The christian who started this thread started with christ. that's the whole discussion. It has nothing to do with Buddha or Muhammed or Ala or whoever else. And for the most part, we're talking about god, any god, any type of religion, as far as I'm concerned. It just so happens that the one believer who is speaking back happens to be a christian.
I'm pretty sure if any of us were worried about offending anyone, we wouldn't be in this thread to begin with. And as an aside, you have some issues with political correctness? I think that's a whole other thread entirely.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
EVIL
–adjective 1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun 6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9. harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11. a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
So then by definition humans and pretty much anything in the universe could be considered evil?
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Because we have a spirit which was created by Gods good nature in his likeness which can determine good and evil. You wouldnt have a gage of what good and evil were if God didnt write that on your heart. The spirit isnt bound by death the body is.
I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.
I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.
Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.
And who is angry at god, exactly?
You have been condescending to me throughout this, you think I am ignorant. I think it is more ignorant to put belief in theory than in human eyewitness account and spiritual experience.
We are insistant because our God told us through hundreds of men who died getting this message out to us that it is the truth and we see how the world tries to debunk the truth. He didnt tell us "you'll see the truth and the truth will set you free" for nothing. So am I more ignorant because I put faith in something I have experienced working in my life or you putting faith in theory ultimately gambling with your souls final destination? Believers arent the ones blindly following a lie. The world is. We are insistant because we want you to see what we have seen. We dont want you in eternal torment the rest of eternity.
The thing is we as humans cant convince you to believe the truth you have to search for it yourself and the Spirit will lead you. All you have to do is turn off your worldly blinders and open yourself to God.
I have not actually been condescending to you. You are blind if you can't see how you have been. Thinking that you have a message to teach the world and the countless times you have told me I am blind and what have you. You said pages ago that you were done with this thread, then you pm'd me saying the same thing, as you thought it was wrong to try to push this any further, and quoted some scripture saying as much. But here you are, pushing away. I have repeatedly told you that I respect your beliefs, and I will not try to tell you you are wrong, only that it is POSSIBLE you are wrong, which you said, so that's all I needed. From there I told you we can agree to disagree. But you keep on pushing. You do quite the opposite, which, yes, in my opinion, is ignorant.
I will say one more time:
I don't need to search for shit.
I have no blinders.
I have "seen" what you have "seen". But in my own life I found completeness, in my own spiritual way that doesn't involve god. I don't need you telling me how to complete my life.
If you need god, good for you. I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and tell you to look my way, as I have been told of the one true way like you do. That would be insulting to your belief system. Stop giving good christians a bad name. They are not all like you. I know that.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
he has some spelling issues as well....and grammar
you havent contributed anything positive in your behalf to the arugument in a while. wait until you have something good to say that argues FOR you instead of against.
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Do you believe you have a spirit?
I'm sorry that you don't just kill me for no other reason than eternal consequences. I guess that shows the difference between us.
Not in the same way you believe it. It's really quite irrelevant now, anyway. It's obvious (and has been for some time) that your purpose here is not for logical discussion, but for online conversion, which I really don't care for.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I have not actually been condescending to you. You are blind if you can't see how you have been. Thinking that you have a message to teach the world and the countless times you have told me I am blind and what have you. You said pages ago that you were done with this thread, then you pm'd me saying the same thing, as you thought it was wrong to try to push this any further, and quoted some scripture saying as much. But here you are, pushing away. I have repeatedly told you that I respect your beliefs, and I will not try to tell you you are wrong, only that it is POSSIBLE you are wrong, which you said, so that's all I needed. From there I told you we can agree to disagree. But you keep on pushing. You do quite the opposite, which, yes, in my opinion, is ignorant.
I will say one more time:
I don't need to search for shit.
I have no blinders.
I have "seen" what you have "seen". But in my own life I found completeness, in my own spiritual way that doesn't involve god. I don't need you telling me how to complete my life.
If you need god, good for you. I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and tell you to look my way, as I have been told of the one true way like you do. That would be insulting to your belief system. Stop giving good christians a bad name. They are not all like you. I know that.
True I am a faulty man just like the next and I will reap what I sow just as you will.
I'm debating what I believe as are you. My belief is condescending because it comes from a Superior rank.
So what is that completeness in your life? What does it amount to in the end when you die?
he has some spelling issues as well....and grammar
you havent contributed anything positive in your behalf to the arugument in a while. wait until you have something good to say that argues FOR you instead of against.
hello pot
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Do you believe you have a spirit?
I'm sorry that you don't just kill me for no other reason than eternal consequences. I guess that shows the difference between us.
Not in the same way you believe it. It's really quite irrelevant now, anyway. It's obvious (and has been for some time) that your purpose here is not for logical discussion, but for online conversion, which I really don't care for.
You cant explain why it matters what we do here because by your beliefs, nothing matters. There is no meaning to this worldly theory. Which is illogical in my oppinion. BTW this isnt fun online discussion for me. I cant stop thinking about your eternal soul and yes that is why I want to you at least open your mind yet again to God. I cant let it go, it saddens me to know what I know and what you once knew and me not be able to do anything to help you.
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Do you believe you have a spirit?
I'm sorry that you don't just kill me for no other reason than eternal consequences. I guess that shows the difference between us.
Not in the same way you believe it. It's really quite irrelevant now, anyway. It's obvious (and has been for some time) that your purpose here is not for logical discussion, but for online conversion, which I really don't care for.
You cant explain why it matters what we do here because by your beliefs, nothing matters. There is no meaning to this worldly theory. Which is illogical in my oppinion. BTW this isnt fun online discussion for me. I cant stop thinking about your eternal soul and yes that is why I want to you at least open your mind yet again to God. I cant let it go, it saddens me to know what I know and what you once knew and me not be able to do anything to help you.
I AM ALL THAT IS EVIL IN THE WORLD. I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL YOU ALL JOIN ME IN HELL!!!
:twisted:
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Do you believe you have a spirit?
I'm sorry that you don't just kill me for no other reason than eternal consequences. I guess that shows the difference between us.
Not in the same way you believe it. It's really quite irrelevant now, anyway. It's obvious (and has been for some time) that your purpose here is not for logical discussion, but for online conversion, which I really don't care for.
You cant explain why it matters what we do here because by your beliefs, nothing matters. There is no meaning to this worldly theory. Which is illogical in my oppinion. BTW this isnt fun online discussion for me. I cant stop thinking about your eternal soul and yes that is why I want to you at least open your mind yet again to God. I cant let it go, it saddens me to know what I know and what you once knew and me not be able to do anything to help you.
keep on telling me why/what/how I believe, it's really starting to entertain.
see what I bolded? that's the entire point. you don't "know" anymore than anyone else on this planet, whether he be a Jew, a Baptist, a Satanist, a Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, whatever.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I hope when I go I can leave good memories to the people I loved and loved me. I hope that they share stories of love, those times I did a good deed or made a phone call to help out a friend. I also hope they share the stories when I got a little to drunk at a party and made an ass of myself! I will live on through the people I love and and the people I made a positive impact on, and I'm perfectly ok with that.
I met my great grandfather maybe 2-3 times, and he died when I was 2 years old. Yet he lives on through my dad, whom he taught to play guitar, and through me, whom my dad taught. I have one of his old guitars, and still play it from time to time, just so I feel some sort of connection to the guy I barely met. We share stories of how one can 'Blackie' something (basically Macgyver) etc.. etc... Basically sounded like a hell of a guy. If I can live on in that way, well I'm perfectly alright with that.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I hope when I go I can leave good memories to the people I loved and loved me. I hope that they share stories of love, those times I did a good deed or made a phone call to help out a friend. I also hope they share the stories when I got a little to drunk at a party and made an ass of myself! I will live on through the people I love and and the people I made a positive impact on, and I'm perfectly ok with that.
I met my great grandfather maybe 2-3 times, and he died when I was 2 years old. Yet he lives on through my dad, whom he taught to play guitar, and through me, whom my dad taught. I have one of his old guitars, and still play it from time to time, just so I feel some sort of connection to the guy I barely met. We share stories of how one can 'Blackie' something (basically Macgyver) etc.. etc... Basically sounded like a hell of a guy. If I can live on in that way, well I'm perfectly alright with that.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Do you believe you have a spirit?
I'm sorry that you don't just kill me for no other reason than eternal consequences. I guess that shows the difference between us.
Not in the same way you believe it. It's really quite irrelevant now, anyway. It's obvious (and has been for some time) that your purpose here is not for logical discussion, but for online conversion, which I really don't care for.
You cant explain why it matters what we do here because by your beliefs, nothing matters. There is no meaning to this worldly theory. Which is illogical in my oppinion. BTW this isnt fun online discussion for me. I cant stop thinking about your eternal soul and yes that is why I want to you at least open your mind yet again to God. I cant let it go, it saddens me to know what I know and what you once knew and me not be able to do anything to help you.
I feel as strongly as you do that you are the one that needs help. It saddens me to think of all of the time and energy you are throwing away. Life is too short to let a story with enormous holes in it dictate your life and times.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Astronomy, a cosmologist, and I think you are confusing fortune cookie writing with a hairstylist, cosmetologist. Any astronomer or scientist who goes on emperical evidence would tell you they have no clue how the universe, before the big bang, came into being. Nor do they have an explaination to the amazment of fine tuning this universe possesses for life to even exist.
Give me an example of anything we observe in nature that gives emperical evidence of random chance creating things without purpose.
A supernatural force is evil. Explain to me what evil is?
God told us through men who witnessed God buring bushes, bringing about plagues on rulers, men rising from the dead and walking on water, or seeing 2 men of history on a mountain with Jesus who are in heaven. They all claim countlessly how inferior they are to God when they convey these messages. They know because He showed them. Science knows there are things completely beyond its comprehension and people buy it like I buy God.
Since the beginning there has been truth and lie
worldly truth
godly truth
mans nature is basically good man is sinful/evil and separated from God
random chance is creator God is creator
self realization leads to denying of ones self leads to happieness
happieness
jesus was a good prophet jesus was part God/man sent as a sacrifice to cover mans sinful nature
tolerance of peoples beliefs there is only one belief
I find it strange that everyone tolerates islam, materialisim and scientific beliefs but when it comes down to the one belief that God himself says is truth people have no tolerance for it. You dont want to hear anything a Christian has to say about your life. Where is the tolerance there?
...
Of course when you ask any Astronomer about the time before the Big Bang, they will all say, They don't know... because they don't know and they don't pretend to know. They don't have any evidence, so they don't know. What is your point?
..
As for creating things without a purpose... you go on the supposition that the Earth was created for us... for us to serve some sort of purpose. The Earth is in a position where it can sustain a great diversity of life. But, it always hasn't been that way and it won't always be that way. There will come a day when the Earth will no longer support any life. Our purpose? We don't know which why we ask, "Why am I here?". Again... what is your point?
...
As for Supernatural... I don't know because it is supernatural. And Evil is a relative term. To people killed by Usama Bin Laden... Bin laden is Evil... to people who were killed by President Bush's wars... Bush and the United State are Evil... all depend on whose funerals you are going to. On a smaller scale... YOU gave the example of a pet dog pissing and shitting in the house as bad behaviour, whereas I say it it YOUR fault because the dog is just being a dog and and it is YOUR responsibility to provide the dog with adequate facilities for the dog to be a dog. In the natural world... dogs don't live in houses. You say the dog is bad... I say YOU, as the dog's master, are irresponsible.
...
On this... example or whatever it's supposed to be: Since the beginning there has been truth and lie
worldly truth
godly truth
mans nature is basically good man is sinful/evil and separated from God
random chance is creator God is creator
self realization leads to denying of ones self leads to happieness
happieness
jesus was a good prophet jesus was part God/man sent as a sacrifice to cover mans sinful nature
tolerance of peoples beliefs there is only one belief
...
Your whole premise is wrong. There is only one truth... God exists... or God does not exist. One is the truth, the other is not.
What you provided are relative truths... and you mislabeled 'godly truths'... those are 'Christian Truths'. Truths that Christians believe to be true. Thus.. again... Relative (Subjective) truths.
The absolute truths...
Man's Nature covers a wide range which expands way beyond your limiting us to your only two choices.
As for the Creator... the assumption is there is a Creator. Truth is... we don't know.
Regarding Happiness... again... there are many paths to Happiness, not just two. Relative.
Jesus... We don't know. People believe... but belief is not knowledge. Faith is not Truth.
Tolerance... you are saying God (from the Christian perspective) is intolerant. That is relative because i believe God loves us unconditionally and makes no demands of us to love Him.
...
Finally... this: "I find it strange that everyone tolerates islam, materialisim and scientific beliefs but when it comes down to the one belief that God himself says is truth people have no tolerance for it. You dont want to hear anything a Christian has to say about your life. Where is the tolerance there?"
Where is the Tolerance there? I dont want to hear anything a Christian has to say about my life. That makes me intolerant??? Don't speak to me about my life... I am not saying anything about you going a different path than me... that is a choice that YOU make... not me. I understand that I am in no position to tell anyone else about their lives. You claim to know the 'truth'... but, I know for a fact that you don't. Belief is not Truth.
and PLEASE... anyone who says this, 'there is only one belief' is the last person to claim others as intolerant.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
EVIL
–adjective 1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun 6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9. harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11. a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
So then by definition humans and pretty much anything in the universe could be considered evil?
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Because we have a spirit which was created by Gods good nature in his likeness which can determine good and evil. You wouldnt have a gage of what good and evil were if God didnt write that on your heart. The spirit isnt bound by death the body is.
Do you believe you have a spirit?
...
There it is again. You are not evil as a condition your belief in God. You are saying without your belief system... you would be a cold blooded murderer.
I am not.
I will not kill... I don't need an ancient text to tell me not to kill. I would even take it so far to say, If you are willing to kill me for my car... or some paper or plastic in my wallet... or for food for yourself and/or your family... that's on you. I am not going to kill you to prevent you from killing me... I will plead with you to let me live, but I will not take your life... even in favor of mine. That is the humanity in my heart that guides me, not someone else's religion.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.
Fargo 2003
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No one becomes a believer unless called by the spirit. The spirit is never wrong in reasoning. Everyone dies; its where your spirit transcends to after death that matters. You dont believe you burn in eternal torment not because of God but because of YOU.
Yes now you finally get it. The only evil that exists is because of man himself.
I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.
I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.
Get it?
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I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.
I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.
Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.
And who is angry at god, exactly?
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You still havent answered what is evil?
yes I did, and you responded with your "yes, you finally get it" BS:
"as far as I'm concerned, the only evil that exists in the world comes from man himself."
And that's with regards to my definition of evil. With regards to yours (Satan), I don't believe it exists.
Fargo 2003
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You have been condescending to me throughout this, you think I am ignorant. I think it is more ignorant to put belief in theory than in human eyewitness account and spiritual experience.
We are insistant because our God told us through hundreds of men who died getting this message out to us that it is the truth and we see how the world tries to debunk the truth. He didnt tell us "you'll see the truth and the truth will set you free" for nothing. So am I more ignorant because I put faith in something I have experienced working in my life or you putting faith in theory ultimately gambling with your souls final destination? Believers arent the ones blindly following a lie. The world is. We are insistant because we want you to see what we have seen. We dont want you in eternal torment the rest of eternity.
The thing is we as humans cant convince you to believe the truth you have to search for it yourself and the Spirit will lead you. All you have to do is turn off your worldly blinders and open yourself to God.
oh, don't get all hissy. yes, you can comment when you want, but if you are going to make some claim that has no basis in fact with regards to the previous postings, you are only making yourself look bad.
I answered your question about starting off with Christ. The christian who started this thread started with christ. that's the whole discussion. It has nothing to do with Buddha or Muhammed or Ala or whoever else. And for the most part, we're talking about god, any god, any type of religion, as far as I'm concerned. It just so happens that the one believer who is speaking back happens to be a christian.
I'm pretty sure if any of us were worried about offending anyone, we wouldn't be in this thread to begin with. And as an aside, you have some issues with political correctness? I think that's a whole other thread entirely.
Fargo 2003
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The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
–adjective 1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun 6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9. harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11. a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
So then by definition humans and pretty much anything in the universe could be considered evil?
So if we are here by no purpose just random chance why should we even fret about these definitions if our souls suffer no eternal consequences? Why couldnt I just kill you because I think you are ignorant?
Because we have a spirit which was created by Gods good nature in his likeness which can determine good and evil. You wouldnt have a gage of what good and evil were if God didnt write that on your heart. The spirit isnt bound by death the body is.
Do you believe you have a spirit?
I have not actually been condescending to you. You are blind if you can't see how you have been. Thinking that you have a message to teach the world and the countless times you have told me I am blind and what have you. You said pages ago that you were done with this thread, then you pm'd me saying the same thing, as you thought it was wrong to try to push this any further, and quoted some scripture saying as much. But here you are, pushing away. I have repeatedly told you that I respect your beliefs, and I will not try to tell you you are wrong, only that it is POSSIBLE you are wrong, which you said, so that's all I needed. From there I told you we can agree to disagree. But you keep on pushing. You do quite the opposite, which, yes, in my opinion, is ignorant.
I will say one more time:
I don't need to search for shit.
I have no blinders.
I have "seen" what you have "seen". But in my own life I found completeness, in my own spiritual way that doesn't involve god. I don't need you telling me how to complete my life.
If you need god, good for you. I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and tell you to look my way, as I have been told of the one true way like you do. That would be insulting to your belief system. Stop giving good christians a bad name. They are not all like you. I know that.
Fargo 2003
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you havent contributed anything positive in your behalf to the arugument in a while. wait until you have something good to say that argues FOR you instead of against.
I'm sorry that you don't just kill me for no other reason than eternal consequences. I guess that shows the difference between us.
Not in the same way you believe it. It's really quite irrelevant now, anyway. It's obvious (and has been for some time) that your purpose here is not for logical discussion, but for online conversion, which I really don't care for.
Fargo 2003
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True I am a faulty man just like the next and I will reap what I sow just as you will.
I'm debating what I believe as are you. My belief is condescending because it comes from a Superior rank.
So what is that completeness in your life? What does it amount to in the end when you die?
hello pot
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
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You cant explain why it matters what we do here because by your beliefs, nothing matters. There is no meaning to this worldly theory. Which is illogical in my oppinion. BTW this isnt fun online discussion for me. I cant stop thinking about your eternal soul and yes that is why I want to you at least open your mind yet again to God. I cant let it go, it saddens me to know what I know and what you once knew and me not be able to do anything to help you.
I AM ALL THAT IS EVIL IN THE WORLD. I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL YOU ALL JOIN ME IN HELL!!!
:twisted:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
keep on telling me why/what/how I believe, it's really starting to entertain.
see what I bolded? that's the entire point. you don't "know" anymore than anyone else on this planet, whether he be a Jew, a Baptist, a Satanist, a Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, whatever.
Fargo 2003
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Winnipeg 2011
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I think you just gave me a good line for a new song I'm going to write. Shall I credit you as Gern, Mr Blansten, ?
Fargo 2003
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yes please
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I met my great grandfather maybe 2-3 times, and he died when I was 2 years old. Yet he lives on through my dad, whom he taught to play guitar, and through me, whom my dad taught. I have one of his old guitars, and still play it from time to time, just so I feel some sort of connection to the guy I barely met. We share stories of how one can 'Blackie' something (basically Macgyver) etc.. etc... Basically sounded like a hell of a guy. If I can live on in that way, well I'm perfectly alright with that.
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I feel as strongly as you do that you are the one that needs help. It saddens me to think of all of the time and energy you are throwing away. Life is too short to let a story with enormous holes in it dictate your life and times.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Of course when you ask any Astronomer about the time before the Big Bang, they will all say, They don't know... because they don't know and they don't pretend to know. They don't have any evidence, so they don't know. What is your point?
..
As for creating things without a purpose... you go on the supposition that the Earth was created for us... for us to serve some sort of purpose. The Earth is in a position where it can sustain a great diversity of life. But, it always hasn't been that way and it won't always be that way. There will come a day when the Earth will no longer support any life. Our purpose? We don't know which why we ask, "Why am I here?". Again... what is your point?
...
As for Supernatural... I don't know because it is supernatural. And Evil is a relative term. To people killed by Usama Bin Laden... Bin laden is Evil... to people who were killed by President Bush's wars... Bush and the United State are Evil... all depend on whose funerals you are going to. On a smaller scale... YOU gave the example of a pet dog pissing and shitting in the house as bad behaviour, whereas I say it it YOUR fault because the dog is just being a dog and and it is YOUR responsibility to provide the dog with adequate facilities for the dog to be a dog. In the natural world... dogs don't live in houses. You say the dog is bad... I say YOU, as the dog's master, are irresponsible.
...
On this... example or whatever it's supposed to be:
Since the beginning there has been truth and lie
worldly truth
godly truth
mans nature is basically good man is sinful/evil and separated from God
random chance is creator God is creator
self realization leads to denying of ones self leads to happieness
happieness
jesus was a good prophet jesus was part God/man sent as a sacrifice to cover mans sinful nature
tolerance of peoples beliefs there is only one belief
...
Your whole premise is wrong. There is only one truth... God exists... or God does not exist. One is the truth, the other is not.
What you provided are relative truths... and you mislabeled 'godly truths'... those are 'Christian Truths'. Truths that Christians believe to be true. Thus.. again... Relative (Subjective) truths.
The absolute truths...
Man's Nature covers a wide range which expands way beyond your limiting us to your only two choices.
As for the Creator... the assumption is there is a Creator. Truth is... we don't know.
Regarding Happiness... again... there are many paths to Happiness, not just two. Relative.
Jesus... We don't know. People believe... but belief is not knowledge. Faith is not Truth.
Tolerance... you are saying God (from the Christian perspective) is intolerant. That is relative because i believe God loves us unconditionally and makes no demands of us to love Him.
...
Finally... this:
"I find it strange that everyone tolerates islam, materialisim and scientific beliefs but when it comes down to the one belief that God himself says is truth people have no tolerance for it. You dont want to hear anything a Christian has to say about your life. Where is the tolerance there?"
Where is the Tolerance there? I dont want to hear anything a Christian has to say about my life. That makes me intolerant??? Don't speak to me about my life... I am not saying anything about you going a different path than me... that is a choice that YOU make... not me. I understand that I am in no position to tell anyone else about their lives. You claim to know the 'truth'... but, I know for a fact that you don't. Belief is not Truth.
and PLEASE... anyone who says this, 'there is only one belief' is the last person to claim others as intolerant.
Hail, Hail!!!
There it is again. You are not evil as a condition your belief in God. You are saying without your belief system... you would be a cold blooded murderer.
I am not.
I will not kill... I don't need an ancient text to tell me not to kill. I would even take it so far to say, If you are willing to kill me for my car... or some paper or plastic in my wallet... or for food for yourself and/or your family... that's on you. I am not going to kill you to prevent you from killing me... I will plead with you to let me live, but I will not take your life... even in favor of mine. That is the humanity in my heart that guides me, not someone else's religion.
Hail, Hail!!!