yeah cornifer needs to show us some RECENT evidence that scientists are pulling their hair out because I am saying he's full of poopy..
Let's see..., recent. Hmmm. How about the findings, which were reported on roughly one week ago, of tetrapod (four legged vertebrate) footprints that predate the long insisted upon by Darwinian theorists date for land creatures by, get this, 18 million years!! What is the significance of this? It is a complete paradigm breaker. It completely destroys long insisted upon dates. It completely shakes up the Darwinian model. It causes more metaphorical hair pulling.
yeah cornifer needs to show us some RECENT evidence that scientists are pulling their hair out because I am saying he's full of poopy..
Let's see..., recent. Hmmm. How about the findings, which were reported on roughly one week ago, of tetrapod (four legged vertebrate) footprints that predate the long insisted upon by Darwinian theorists date for land creatures by, get this, 18 million years!! What is the significance of this? It is a complete paradigm breaker. It completely destroys long insisted upon dates. It completely shakes up the Darwinian model. It causes more metaphorical hair pulling.
Your logic seems to match your ability to use the quote function properly.
Evolution, like all science, is constantly being updated and new discoveries are being made. What was written 150 years ago, or 5 days ago, has the ability to change as new information is discovered.
It doesn't make the entire concept obsolete.
That is the point of discovery and Science, it continues to grow and new questions and answers arrive.
I don't think anyone ever said that the what is accepted today is the end of it all.
so recent science has proven previous science incorrect and corrected it. is that what youre saying???
OT, but Cate, I absolutely love your avatar. I'm sure you know this, but you can actually buy those to put on your car. I so want to order one. My in-laws would go ballistic if they saw it!
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Evolution, like all science, is constantly being updated and new discoveries are being made. What was written 150 years ago, or 5 days ago, has the ability to change as new information is discovered.
It doesn't make the entire concept obsolete.
That is the point of discovery and Science, it continues to grow and new questions and answers arrive.
I don't think anyone ever said that the what is accepted today is the end of it all.
this is the main point I find ultimately hypocritical about theists. they try to put emphasis on new scientific discoveries, like that somehow points to a flaw in the basis of science as a whole, when, like you said, that is actually the point of science, to know that we do not know it all. Religion is the exact opposite: "We know it all, and what we don't, we trust in god".
If I told a theist that I just "trusted" the knowledge of some supreme scientist without him telling us his actual reasons for any findings/theorems/hypotheses, you'd all call us nuts.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
So you are saved. Have you ever thought that God may have spat you and I into these conversations for a reason? Maybe God sent me to piss you off enough to have it fresh on your mind when He decides to move again. He works on his children through hard times and disciplen. The devil only uses hard times to anger you and keep you down. Just be open to the concept in the next few weeks I'm going to pray my ass off for you. We can be done with these conversations."
I have a feeling his prayers will be answered.
one way or another eh?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
yeah cornifer needs to show us some RECENT evidence that scientists are pulling their hair out because I am saying he's full of poopy..
Let's see..., recent. Hmmm. How about the findings, which were reported on roughly one week ago, of tetrapod (four legged vertebrate) footprints that predate the long insisted upon by Darwinian theorists date for land creatures by, get this, 18 million years!! What is the significance of this? It is a complete paradigm breaker. It completely destroys long insisted upon dates. It completely shakes up the Darwinian model. It causes more metaphorical hair pulling.
ok this is completely different than the claims you were making about AR but Johnny said it best....science is constantly being updated as new information is discovered
18 million years is nothing compared to the age of the earth
and I hope to christ you aren't a teacher....
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Evolution, like all science, is constantly being updated and new discoveries are being made. What was written 150 years ago, or 5 days ago, has the ability to change as new information is discovered.
It doesn't make the entire concept obsolete.
That is the point of discovery and Science, it continues to grow and new questions and answers arrive.
I don't think anyone ever said that the what is accepted today is the end of it all.
this is the main point I find ultimately hypocritical about theists. they try to put emphasis on new scientific discoveries, like that somehow points to a flaw in the basis of science as a whole, when, like you said, that is actually the point of science, to know that we do not know it all. Religion is the exact opposite: "We know it all, and what we don't, we trust in god".
If I told a theist that I just "trusted" the knowledge of some supreme scientist without him telling us his actual reasons for any findings/theorems/hypotheses, you'd all call us nuts.
Hypocritical? How? What have i said thats hypocritical? By pointing out very recent scientific discoveries that DO show flaws in previously posited Darwinist "facts"? Previously held theories are now shown to be inaccurate and must be reworked. That means there was a "flaw" in the previously suggested "truth". The newest discoveries are the ones that must be emphasized! Especially when they suggest a "fly in the ointment" of previous hypotheses based on old discoveries. On one hand, you go on about how science is constantly being updated by new discoveries, and on the other hand you call ME a hypocrite for pointing out new discoveries! Where i come from we call that "speaking out of both sides of your face."
Furthermore, you insist it is the point of science to say that "we don't know it all", which is true, but then insist upon scientific "truths" that are in constant flux. Fact is fact. In order to earn that title a "fact" must have surpassed the need for reassessment. Once again, both sides of your face are getting a workout. At least i have never posited that my theistic wordlview is absolute "fact."
That being said, do you know what I find laugh out loud funny? You claim its hysterical that theists are just that, theists, while you hesitantly admit science doesn't know everything but someday "we'll find it". How do you know? "Gee, there are glaring gaps in my ever changing, ever reassessed "factual" model, there are all kinds of things missing, but SOMEDAY we'll find 'em. I just know it."
Science is a wonderful tool for understanding our universe and improving the human condition. i've never suggested otherwise. But how is my faith, my theistic worldview any different from your faith, it is a faith, in what has been heretofore, a tail chase? But, you're right. I'M a hypocrite.
Whatever.
Hypocrite.
Post edited by cornnifer on
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Why? Because i'm a theist? Yet "religious" folk are intolerant. Once again, you are doing nothing but running your mouth. Talking loud and saying absolutely nothing.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Let's see..., recent. Hmmm. How about the findings, which were reported on roughly one week ago, of tetrapod (four legged vertebrate) footprints that predate the long insisted upon by Darwinian theorists date for land creatures by, get this, 18 million years!! What is the significance of this? It is a complete paradigm breaker. It completely destroys long insisted upon dates. It completely shakes up the Darwinian model. It causes more metaphorical hair pulling.
ok this is completely different than the claims you were making about AR but Johnny said it best....science is constantly being updated as new information is discovered
18 million years is nothing compared to the age of the earth
and I hope to christ you aren't a teacher....
not true. The earth is roughly 6000 years old and Adam walked with dinosaurs
Why? Because i'm a theist? Yet "religious" folk are intolerant. Once again, you are doing nothing but running your mouth. Talking loud and saying absolutely nothing.
no because you aren't very smart
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Why? Because i'm a theist? Yet "religious" folk are intolerant. Once again, you are doing nothing but running your mouth. Talking loud and saying absolutely nothing.
no because you aren't very smart
Whatever. Mouth. Thats all you are. Mouth. Absolutely no substance. Like a 25 gallon bottle of Pepsi. An awful lot of matter with absolutely no nutritional value.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
not true. The earth is roughly 6000 years old and Adam walked with dinosaurs
Wow. You're a quick one. That was never my suggestion, nor is it the suggestion of most theists. But at least you're consistent with the bulk of this forum. Blanket generalizations, wise ass comments and no substance. Good job, man. Thumbs up.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
not true. The earth is roughly 6000 years old and Adam walked with dinosaurs
Wow. You're a quick one. That was never my suggestion, nor is it the suggestion of most theists. But at least you're consistent with the bulk of this forum. Blanket generalizations, wise ass comments and no substance. Good job, man. Thumbs up.
not true. The earth is roughly 6000 years old and Adam walked with dinosaurs
Wow. You're a quick one. That was never my suggestion, nor is it the suggestion of most theists. But at least you're consistent with the bulk of this forum. Blanket generalizations, wise ass comments and no substance. Good job, man. Thumbs up.
Only because I can't debate against fairy tales.
Why? Should be easy, right? Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just wisecracks that aren't even funny.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
so recent science has proven previous science incorrect and corrected it. is that what youre saying???
OT, but Cate, I absolutely love your avatar. I'm sure you know this, but you can actually buy those to put on your car. I so want to order one. My in-laws would go ballistic if they saw it!
yes indeed i do know that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Evolution, like all science, is constantly being updated and new discoveries are being made. What was written 150 years ago, or 5 days ago, has the ability to change as new information is discovered.
It doesn't make the entire concept obsolete.
That is the point of discovery and Science, it continues to grow and new questions and answers arrive.
I don't think anyone ever said that the what is accepted today is the end of it all.
this is the main point I find ultimately hypocritical about theists. they try to put emphasis on new scientific discoveries, like that somehow points to a flaw in the basis of science as a whole, when, like you said, that is actually the point of science, to know that we do not know it all. Religion is the exact opposite: "We know it all, and what we don't, we trust in god".
If I told a theist that I just "trusted" the knowledge of some supreme scientist without him telling us his actual reasons for any findings/theorems/hypotheses, you'd all call us nuts.
Hypocritical? How? What have i said thats hypocritical? By pointing out very recent scientific discoveries that DO show flaws in previously posited Darwinist "facts"? Previously held theories are now shown to be inaccurate and must be reworked. That means there was a "flaw" in the previously suggested "truth". The newest discoveries are the ones that must be emphasized! Especially when they suggest a "fly in the ointment" of previous hypotheses based on old discoveries. On one hand, you go on about how science is constantly being updated by new discoveries, and on the other hand you call ME a hypocrite for pointing out new discoveries! Where i come from we call that "speaking out of both sides of your face."
Furthermore, you insist it is the point of science to say that "we don't know it all", which is true, but then insist upon scientific "truths" that are in constant flux. Fact is fact. In order to earn that title a "fact" must have surpassed the need for reassessment. Once again, both sides of your face are getting a workout. At least i have never posited that my theistic wordlview is absolute "fact."
That being said, do you know what I find laugh out loud funny? You claim its hysterical that theists are just that, theists, while you hesitantly admit science doesn't know everything but someday "we'll find it". How do you know? "Gee, there are glaring gaps in my ever changing, ever reassessed "factual" model, there are all kinds of things missing, but SOMEDAY we'll find 'em. I just know it."
Science is a wonderful tool for understanding our universe and improving the human condition. i've never suggested otherwise. But how is my faith, my theistic worldview any different from your faith, it is a faith, in what has been heretofore, a tail chase? But, you're right. I'M a hypocrite.
Whatever.
Hypocrite.
I think you need to take a deep breath and relax. I never said you specifically were a hypocrite. Yes, granted, it was a bit of generalization, but I didn't address you specifically because I don't know you at all on these boards. Except that you seem to have some predisposition to calling people names and dismissing their opinions.
Now, before I address your above post, I want you to take a good hard look at mine, the one you responded to, and see if what you said in response makes a lick of sense.
Queue Final Jeapardy music.........dum dum dum....dum dum....dum dum dummmmm....dum dum dum..dum...DUM...dum dum dum dum dum......ok, I'll give you a hint:
please tell me WHERE I said that one day the scientific community will one day know it all. Direct quote. Even a hint of an inference. (by the way, Darwin's THEORY of evolution is still just that, a THEORY, so what FACT has been disproven here? NONE. It is probably one of the most widely accepted theories that has yet to be definitively proven, but it's still a theory) **quick edit: I also never called anyone a hypocrite for pointing out new discoveries. why the farq would I do that? new discoveries are the basis behind all present knowledge, which is religion's main flaw**
Extra credit: do it without calling me (or anyone else) names. You have one day to have it on my desk.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Science is a journey of discovery. It is Man's stuggle to gain knowledge about the natural and physical world he lives in. The fossli record is a tool used to explain Darwin's theory of evolution... and the fossil record, as known to man, is not complete.
As others have stated, just because newly discovered data alters previously accepted notions, does not discount the basic concept. Time was, the accepted idea was that dinosaurs were lumbering reptiles. Because the idea has changed to them being closely related to birds, than reptiles, does not mean dinosaurs never existed.
The recent findings only means an adjustment in the timeline is needed and it opens the door to the real possibility that more species are out there. The basic theory of Darwin's Evolution remains in tact... fish made their way out of the waters and unto the land... Modern Man evolved from ape like ancestors (and we remain on the Primate evolutionary branch).
In the religious (Christian) equation, there is nothing new to add. When was the Bible last updated? That is a closed book. God has not spoken to Man in a long, long time. If religion was like science, the Bible would be open to new chapters. The religious path is a journey of inner discovery... one that cannot be explained in our physical Universe. Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you chose.
For religion to try to come up with some sort of psuedo science, such as 'Creationism' (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') only makes religion appear to be even more closed than it is. We do not want to turn back the clock to the time when the Church defined Science and placed the Earth in the center of our solar system and Man in the center of the Universe. We have proven, time and again, that we do not deserve that hign standing.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Science is a journey of discovery. It is Man's stuggle to gain knowledge about the natural and physical world he lives in. The fossli record is a tool used to explain Darwin's theory of evolution... and the fossil record, as known to man, is not complete.
As others have stated, just because newly discovered data alters previously accepted notions, does not discount the basic concept. Time was, the accepted idea was that dinosaurs were lumbering reptiles. Because the idea has changed to them being closely related to birds, than reptiles, does not mean dinosaurs never existed.
The recent findings only means an adjustment in the timeline is needed and it opens the door to the real possibility that more species are out there. The basic theory of Darwin's Evolution remains in tact... fish made their way out of the waters and unto the land... Modern Man evolved from ape like ancestors (and we remain on the Primate evolutionary branch).
In the religious (Christian) equation, there is nothing new to add. When was the Bible last updated? That is a closed book. God has not spoken to Man in a long, long time. If religion was like science, the Bible would be open to new chapters. The religious path is a journey of inner discovery... one that cannot be explained in our physical Universe. Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you chose.
For religion to try to come up with some sort of psuedo science, such as 'Creationism' (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') only makes religion appear to be even more closed than it is. We do not want to turn back the clock to the time when the Church defined Science and placed the Earth in the center of our solar system and Man in the center of the Universe. We have proven, time and again, that we do not deserve that hign standing.
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
...
I believe that both can live in parallel as long as there is an understanding that the Bible... The Old Testament... evolved into written form from stories told (and retold) that probably originated from late Neolithic Man. And that we have come a long way since the days when we did not understand Day and Night, Stars and the Moon.
And if you understand that religion is a journey on individual wisdom of the soul... and Science is a journey through the corridors of knowledge.
I believe in God... just not the way the Bible makes Him out to be... vengeful and petty (those are human traits that Man has projected onto Him so we can claim Him as ours). I believe God is the forces of Nature and life itself. He did not create this world for us (Man)... The Earth was formed so it could sustain a diversity of lifeforms for a brief period in the larger scheme of the Universe. We are merely players who are here to find a reason why we are here... if a reason even exists.
...
And who knows, maybe Adam And Eve were the missing links we haven't found, yet.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Science is a journey of discovery. It is Man's stuggle to gain knowledge about the natural and physical world he lives in. The fossli record is a tool used to explain Darwin's theory of evolution... and the fossil record, as known to man, is not complete.
As others have stated, just because newly discovered data alters previously accepted notions, does not discount the basic concept. Time was, the accepted idea was that dinosaurs were lumbering reptiles. Because the idea has changed to them being closely related to birds, than reptiles, does not mean dinosaurs never existed.
The recent findings only means an adjustment in the timeline is needed and it opens the door to the real possibility that more species are out there. The basic theory of Darwin's Evolution remains in tact... fish made their way out of the waters and unto the land... Modern Man evolved from ape like ancestors (and we remain on the Primate evolutionary branch).
In the religious (Christian) equation, there is nothing new to add. When was the Bible last updated? That is a closed book. God has not spoken to Man in a long, long time. If religion was like science, the Bible would be open to new chapters. The religious path is a journey of inner discovery... one that cannot be explained in our physical Universe. Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you chose.
For religion to try to come up with some sort of psuedo science, such as 'Creationism' (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') only makes religion appear to be even more closed than it is. We do not want to turn back the clock to the time when the Church defined Science and placed the Earth in the center of our solar system and Man in the center of the Universe. We have proven, time and again, that we do not deserve that hign standing.
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
Evolution should not be believed in. It should be criticized and questioned every step of the way. I think that is what cosmo meant about it not being in opposition. The processes of science and religion are opposites (dogma vs. criticism/expirementation) but their findings are not necessarily.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Science is a journey of discovery. It is Man's stuggle to gain knowledge about the natural and physical world he lives in. The fossli record is a tool used to explain Darwin's theory of evolution... and the fossil record, as known to man, is not complete.
As others have stated, just because newly discovered data alters previously accepted notions, does not discount the basic concept. Time was, the accepted idea was that dinosaurs were lumbering reptiles. Because the idea has changed to them being closely related to birds, than reptiles, does not mean dinosaurs never existed.
The recent findings only means an adjustment in the timeline is needed and it opens the door to the real possibility that more species are out there. The basic theory of Darwin's Evolution remains in tact... fish made their way out of the waters and unto the land... Modern Man evolved from ape like ancestors (and we remain on the Primate evolutionary branch).
In the religious (Christian) equation, there is nothing new to add. When was the Bible last updated? That is a closed book. God has not spoken to Man in a long, long time. If religion was like science, the Bible would be open to new chapters. The religious path is a journey of inner discovery... one that cannot be explained in our physical Universe. Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you chose.
For religion to try to come up with some sort of psuedo science, such as 'Creationism' (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') only makes religion appear to be even more closed than it is. We do not want to turn back the clock to the time when the Church defined Science and placed the Earth in the center of our solar system and Man in the center of the Universe. We have proven, time and again, that we do not deserve that hign standing.
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
Evolution should not be believed in. It should be criticized and questioned every step of the way. I think that is what cosmo meant about it not being in opposition. The processes of science and religion are opposites (dogma vs. criticism/expirementation) but their findings are not necessarily.
yes, it should, as any unproven scientific theorem should be.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
i have to disagree here. Science and faith are not at loggerheads. They are only said to be by short sighted individuals on both sides of the debate.
DNA evidence (gathered from scientific study) strongly suggests all of humanity descends from common ancestry.
Another example that comes to mind is this:
Isaiah 42:5
"This is what God the LORD says— he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it,..."
This penned thousands of years before the Hubble Telescope confirmed that the universe is indeed expanding or "stretching out".
Not that i expect it convince you otherwise, but here are some pretty smart guys, credentialed scientists who would disagree as well with the position that science and faith are at odds. http://www.reasons.org/
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
i have to disagree here. Science and faith are not at loggerheads. They are only said to be by short sighted individuals on both sides of the debate.
DNA evidence (gathered from scientific study) strongly suggests all of humanity descends from common ancestry.
Another example that comes to mind is this:
Isaiah 42:5
"This is what God the LORD says— he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it,..."
This penned thousands of years before the Hubble Telescope confirmed that the universe is indeed expanding or "stretching out".
Not that i expect it convince you otherwise, but here are some pretty smart guys, credentialed scientists who would disagree as well with the position that science and faith are at odds. http://www.reasons.org/
oh, here we go again. I guess I'm a short-sighted individual then. :roll: Let me rephrase then: fundamental theists who believe all in the bible to be literally true cannot also claim to believe in the theory of evolution. Does that clarify my statement a bit more?
don't assume I'm close minded. I'm quite the opposite. People who make blanket statements like that are generally ignorant themselves. I'll take a look at that link at home. too much to fish through with my bosses watching!
Your quote from Isaiah as relates to the universe being infinite and ever-expanding is a stretch at best. Sorry for the pun, but it fits.
So, with regards to my simple comparison of Adam and Eve as the parents (I guess that means you are my cousin! ) of all humanity VS evolution from apes, you believe that you can believe both are true? How does that work exactly? did A&E evolve from apes?
I find it interesting that you call me a hypocrite for apparently making contradictory statements in my own story (which never happened), yet you are trying to poke holes in scientific study then go on to state that DNA evidence SUGGESTS that we are all from common ancestry. How can you believe one scientific theory and then lambaste another one?
Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
i have to disagree here. Science and faith are not at loggerheads. They are only said to be by short sighted individuals on both sides of the debate.
DNA evidence (gathered from scientific study) strongly suggests all of humanity descends from common ancestry.
Another example that comes to mind is this:
Isaiah 42:5
"This is what God the LORD says— he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it,..."
This penned thousands of years before the Hubble Telescope confirmed that the universe is indeed expanding or "stretching out".
Not that i expect it convince you otherwise, but here are some pretty smart guys, credentialed scientists who would disagree as well with the position that science and faith are at odds. http://www.reasons.org/
oh, here we go again. I guess I'm a short-sighted individual then. :roll: Let me rephrase then: fundamental theists who believe all in the bible to be literally true cannot also claim to believe in the theory of evolution. Does that clarify my statement a bit more?
don't assume I'm close minded. I'm quite the opposite. People who make blanket statements like that are generally ignorant themselves. I'll take a look at that link at home. too much to fish through with my bosses watching!
Your quote from Isaiah as relates to the universe being infinite and ever-expanding is a stretch at best. Sorry for the pun, but it fits.
So, with regards to my simple comparison of Adam and Eve as the parents (I guess that means you are my cousin! ) of all humanity VS evolution from apes, you believe that you can believe both are true? How does that work exactly? did A&E evolve from apes?
I find it interesting that you call me a hypocrite for apparently making contradictory statements in my own story (which never happened), yet you are trying to poke holes in scientific study then go on to state that DNA evidence SUGGESTS that we are all from common ancestry. How can you believe one scientific theory and then lambaste another one?
If you notice, i didn't call you short-sighted. Instead, i referenced short-sighted individuals on BOTH sides of the debate. There is without question a sampling of individuals in the faith community who ignore science and insist on removing it from the equation. There are also some in the scientific community who insist science and faith cannot coexist. Both are responsible for creating this sense of absolute incompatibility which simply does not exist.
As far as you and i being cousins, i don't know why that is so funny as that is exactly what scientific DNA study suggests, cousin.
How can one believe one scientific theory and be skeptical of another one? Are you serious? Its what scientists do! Are you implying that scientists don't disagree? Scientist offer differing theories all the time. Thats why they're called theories. I haven't tried to poke holes in any scientific theory. What i HAVE done is cite the most recent discoveries that do all the hole poking.
As far as the hypocrite comment, at the risk of sounding like my three year old son, i only made that comment in response to your rather hypocritical implication that I was a hypocrite. You called me one first.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
1) I never once called you a hypocrite. I wasn't even talking to you when I said that; I was responding to Wilds.
2) no, I was not serious. that's not even what I was saying. My apologies as I think I didn't articulate myself properly on that one.
3) I thought the cousin thing was funny as I have been told by many that I have a sense of humour.
4) I do believe that science and faith can co-exist. The co-existed in me for many years. My point was that some fundamental beliefs on either side cannot. The Adam and Eve VS ape evolution I cited.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
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Dis a one, come tell I say
Another one, come tell I say
If you want to be saved son
You got to go in your grave son
Pack of Bull shit, that is Bull shit, I say
The other one come tell I say
The other one come tell I say
If you want to be in the light son
You got to love Jesas Crise son
Dat is fantasy
A whole pack of ignorancy, I say
Den a parson, tell I say
Den a parson, tell I say
If I want to be pure widin
I got to come confess my sins
Another pirate, another pirate, I say
Dis ya one, come tell I say
Dis ya one, come tell I say
He tink it wize dat
I shoulda get baptize
But wen I realize
It was de Devil in disguise
Dis ya one, come tell I say
Another one come tell I say
To be in the light
Got to check Jesas Crise
You talk it like gladness
But that is madness, I say
All you got to do
Live clean, let your works be seen, my sisters
Stand firm, or go feed worm
Live clean, let your works be seen, my brothers
Stand firm, or you gonna feed worm
The universe and everything in it is inside of the box. Science and world religions search for the answers to universal and particular truths inside of the box. You look on the outside of the puzzle box to get the picture of how the contents on the inside fit together. God is outside of the box. The one true Christian God told us the universals so we wouldnt have to search for the universal and particular truths. We know that God created the heavens and the earth. We know that as men we sin and are separated from him but offered salvation through the sacrifice of Christ which ANYONE can accept. Man can try and piece together the puzzle by its own understanding but will eventually, in the end, see the outside of the box when it is finally revealed. By then it will be to late for it to even matter that he knows. There can only be one truth whether it be by science's definition, Buddah, Allah, or the God of Noah which I believe to be the one true God. There can only be one truth because they all contradict each other.
Its like the example of several blind men in a room. One who represents science, one who represents islam, one who represents hinduism, and one who represents christianity. They dont know there is an elephant in the room which represents truth but they all reach out and grab a peice. The blind man of science grabs the trunk and says "its a snake". The man of islam grabs the tail and says "its a rope". The man of hinduism grabs the leg and says "its a tree". The blind christian grabs the ear and says "its a leaf." The Bible is the trainer telling the blind men "its a freakin elephant" and yet they still dont believe.
Someone said that God hasnt spoke to people for centuries. God speaks through the Bible and the Holy Spirit still to this day. After the Israelites entered the holy land it had been prophecied that a King of Kings would be born through the lineage of King David and they waited for over 400 years before God even spoke to anyone. Then the news of the birth of Christ came. Still they found it hard to believe that a peasant could be the king of kings. Over a hundred times in the Bible when Christ speaks he begins with "Truely, Truely I say to you", or "I tell you the truth". On questioning by Pilate after his capture He proclaims "I came to witness to the truth". Everyone on the planet has been offered the Truth and knows about Jesus. Its our free will to accept it or reject it.
Comments
so recent science has proven previous science incorrect and corrected it. is that what youre saying???
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Your logic seems to match your ability to use the quote function properly.
Evolution, like all science, is constantly being updated and new discoveries are being made. What was written 150 years ago, or 5 days ago, has the ability to change as new information is discovered.
It doesn't make the entire concept obsolete.
That is the point of discovery and Science, it continues to grow and new questions and answers arrive.
I don't think anyone ever said that the what is accepted today is the end of it all.
OT, but Cate, I absolutely love your avatar. I'm sure you know this, but you can actually buy those to put on your car. I so want to order one. My in-laws would go ballistic if they saw it!
Fargo 2003
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this is the main point I find ultimately hypocritical about theists. they try to put emphasis on new scientific discoveries, like that somehow points to a flaw in the basis of science as a whole, when, like you said, that is actually the point of science, to know that we do not know it all. Religion is the exact opposite: "We know it all, and what we don't, we trust in god".
If I told a theist that I just "trusted" the knowledge of some supreme scientist without him telling us his actual reasons for any findings/theorems/hypotheses, you'd all call us nuts.
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one way or another eh?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
ok this is completely different than the claims you were making about AR but Johnny said it best....science is constantly being updated as new information is discovered
18 million years is nothing compared to the age of the earth
and I hope to christ you aren't a teacher....
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Hypocritical? How? What have i said thats hypocritical? By pointing out very recent scientific discoveries that DO show flaws in previously posited Darwinist "facts"? Previously held theories are now shown to be inaccurate and must be reworked. That means there was a "flaw" in the previously suggested "truth". The newest discoveries are the ones that must be emphasized! Especially when they suggest a "fly in the ointment" of previous hypotheses based on old discoveries. On one hand, you go on about how science is constantly being updated by new discoveries, and on the other hand you call ME a hypocrite for pointing out new discoveries! Where i come from we call that "speaking out of both sides of your face."
Furthermore, you insist it is the point of science to say that "we don't know it all", which is true, but then insist upon scientific "truths" that are in constant flux. Fact is fact. In order to earn that title a "fact" must have surpassed the need for reassessment. Once again, both sides of your face are getting a workout. At least i have never posited that my theistic wordlview is absolute "fact."
That being said, do you know what I find laugh out loud funny? You claim its hysterical that theists are just that, theists, while you hesitantly admit science doesn't know everything but someday "we'll find it". How do you know? "Gee, there are glaring gaps in my ever changing, ever reassessed "factual" model, there are all kinds of things missing, but SOMEDAY we'll find 'em. I just know it."
Science is a wonderful tool for understanding our universe and improving the human condition. i've never suggested otherwise. But how is my faith, my theistic worldview any different from your faith, it is a faith, in what has been heretofore, a tail chase? But, you're right. I'M a hypocrite.
Whatever.
Hypocrite.
Why? Because i'm a theist? Yet "religious" folk are intolerant. Once again, you are doing nothing but running your mouth. Talking loud and saying absolutely nothing.
not true. The earth is roughly 6000 years old and Adam walked with dinosaurs
no because you aren't very smart
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Whatever. Mouth. Thats all you are. Mouth. Absolutely no substance. Like a 25 gallon bottle of Pepsi. An awful lot of matter with absolutely no nutritional value.
Wow. You're a quick one. That was never my suggestion, nor is it the suggestion of most theists. But at least you're consistent with the bulk of this forum. Blanket generalizations, wise ass comments and no substance. Good job, man. Thumbs up.
Only because I can't debate against fairy tales.
Why? Should be easy, right? Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just wisecracks that aren't even funny.
yes indeed i do know that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think you need to take a deep breath and relax. I never said you specifically were a hypocrite. Yes, granted, it was a bit of generalization, but I didn't address you specifically because I don't know you at all on these boards. Except that you seem to have some predisposition to calling people names and dismissing their opinions.
Now, before I address your above post, I want you to take a good hard look at mine, the one you responded to, and see if what you said in response makes a lick of sense.
Queue Final Jeapardy music.........dum dum dum....dum dum....dum dum dummmmm....dum dum dum..dum...DUM...dum dum dum dum dum......ok, I'll give you a hint:
please tell me WHERE I said that one day the scientific community will one day know it all. Direct quote. Even a hint of an inference. (by the way, Darwin's THEORY of evolution is still just that, a THEORY, so what FACT has been disproven here? NONE. It is probably one of the most widely accepted theories that has yet to be definitively proven, but it's still a theory) **quick edit: I also never called anyone a hypocrite for pointing out new discoveries. why the farq would I do that? new discoveries are the basis behind all present knowledge, which is religion's main flaw**
Extra credit: do it without calling me (or anyone else) names. You have one day to have it on my desk.
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As others have stated, just because newly discovered data alters previously accepted notions, does not discount the basic concept. Time was, the accepted idea was that dinosaurs were lumbering reptiles. Because the idea has changed to them being closely related to birds, than reptiles, does not mean dinosaurs never existed.
The recent findings only means an adjustment in the timeline is needed and it opens the door to the real possibility that more species are out there. The basic theory of Darwin's Evolution remains in tact... fish made their way out of the waters and unto the land... Modern Man evolved from ape like ancestors (and we remain on the Primate evolutionary branch).
In the religious (Christian) equation, there is nothing new to add. When was the Bible last updated? That is a closed book. God has not spoken to Man in a long, long time. If religion was like science, the Bible would be open to new chapters. The religious path is a journey of inner discovery... one that cannot be explained in our physical Universe. Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you chose.
For religion to try to come up with some sort of psuedo science, such as 'Creationism' (a.k.a. 'Intelligent Design') only makes religion appear to be even more closed than it is. We do not want to turn back the clock to the time when the Church defined Science and placed the Earth in the center of our solar system and Man in the center of the Universe. We have proven, time and again, that we do not deserve that hign standing.
Hail, Hail!!!
very well said, Cosmo, except I have to disagree with one part: "Science and religion are not in opposition... they, can live in parallel if you choose". Those that believe in evolution of the species cannot believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth, and vice versa.
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to say their God is better than anybody else
don't we all have a right
to find God for our self
when I rise with the morning sun
I give thanks to my God
for the gift of another one
and when my day is over
and complete
I reach to my God
to put me back on my feet
-ben harper
I believe that both can live in parallel as long as there is an understanding that the Bible... The Old Testament... evolved into written form from stories told (and retold) that probably originated from late Neolithic Man. And that we have come a long way since the days when we did not understand Day and Night, Stars and the Moon.
And if you understand that religion is a journey on individual wisdom of the soul... and Science is a journey through the corridors of knowledge.
I believe in God... just not the way the Bible makes Him out to be... vengeful and petty (those are human traits that Man has projected onto Him so we can claim Him as ours). I believe God is the forces of Nature and life itself. He did not create this world for us (Man)... The Earth was formed so it could sustain a diversity of lifeforms for a brief period in the larger scheme of the Universe. We are merely players who are here to find a reason why we are here... if a reason even exists.
...
And who knows, maybe Adam And Eve were the missing links we haven't found, yet.
Hail, Hail!!!
Evolution should not be believed in. It should be criticized and questioned every step of the way. I think that is what cosmo meant about it not being in opposition. The processes of science and religion are opposites (dogma vs. criticism/expirementation) but their findings are not necessarily.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
yes, it should, as any unproven scientific theorem should be.
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THANK YOU. I COULDN'T HAVE SAID THIS BETTER MYSELF.
Fargo 2003
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DNA evidence (gathered from scientific study) strongly suggests all of humanity descends from common ancestry.
Another example that comes to mind is this:
Isaiah 42:5
"This is what God the LORD says— he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it,..."
This penned thousands of years before the Hubble Telescope confirmed that the universe is indeed expanding or "stretching out".
Not that i expect it convince you otherwise, but here are some pretty smart guys, credentialed scientists who would disagree as well with the position that science and faith are at odds.
http://www.reasons.org/
oh, here we go again. I guess I'm a short-sighted individual then. :roll: Let me rephrase then: fundamental theists who believe all in the bible to be literally true cannot also claim to believe in the theory of evolution. Does that clarify my statement a bit more?
don't assume I'm close minded. I'm quite the opposite. People who make blanket statements like that are generally ignorant themselves. I'll take a look at that link at home. too much to fish through with my bosses watching!
Your quote from Isaiah as relates to the universe being infinite and ever-expanding is a stretch at best. Sorry for the pun, but it fits.
So, with regards to my simple comparison of Adam and Eve as the parents (I guess that means you are my cousin!
I find it interesting that you call me a hypocrite for apparently making contradictory statements in my own story (which never happened), yet you are trying to poke holes in scientific study then go on to state that DNA evidence SUGGESTS that we are all from common ancestry. How can you believe one scientific theory and then lambaste another one?
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"There can never be a conflict between true science and true religion, because they both describe reality." Anonymous.
I never really thought of it in those terms before. Interesting.
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If you notice, i didn't call you short-sighted. Instead, i referenced short-sighted individuals on BOTH sides of the debate. There is without question a sampling of individuals in the faith community who ignore science and insist on removing it from the equation. There are also some in the scientific community who insist science and faith cannot coexist. Both are responsible for creating this sense of absolute incompatibility which simply does not exist.
As far as you and i being cousins, i don't know why that is so funny as that is exactly what scientific DNA study suggests, cousin.
How can one believe one scientific theory and be skeptical of another one? Are you serious? Its what scientists do! Are you implying that scientists don't disagree? Scientist offer differing theories all the time. Thats why they're called theories. I haven't tried to poke holes in any scientific theory. What i HAVE done is cite the most recent discoveries that do all the hole poking.
As far as the hypocrite comment, at the risk of sounding like my three year old son, i only made that comment in response to your rather hypocritical implication that I was a hypocrite. You called me one first.
2) no, I was not serious. that's not even what I was saying. My apologies as I think I didn't articulate myself properly on that one.
3) I thought the cousin thing was funny as I have been told by many that I have a sense of humour.
4) I do believe that science and faith can co-exist. The co-existed in me for many years. My point was that some fundamental beliefs on either side cannot. The Adam and Eve VS ape evolution I cited.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Another one, come tell I say
If you want to be saved son
You got to go in your grave son
Pack of Bull shit, that is Bull shit, I say
The other one come tell I say
The other one come tell I say
If you want to be in the light son
You got to love Jesas Crise son
Dat is fantasy
A whole pack of ignorancy, I say
Den a parson, tell I say
Den a parson, tell I say
If I want to be pure widin
I got to come confess my sins
Another pirate, another pirate, I say
Dis ya one, come tell I say
Dis ya one, come tell I say
He tink it wize dat
I shoulda get baptize
But wen I realize
It was de Devil in disguise
Dis ya one, come tell I say
Another one come tell I say
To be in the light
Got to check Jesas Crise
You talk it like gladness
But that is madness, I say
All you got to do
Live clean, let your works be seen, my sisters
Stand firm, or go feed worm
Live clean, let your works be seen, my brothers
Stand firm, or you gonna feed worm
-Peter Tosh
Its like the example of several blind men in a room. One who represents science, one who represents islam, one who represents hinduism, and one who represents christianity. They dont know there is an elephant in the room which represents truth but they all reach out and grab a peice. The blind man of science grabs the trunk and says "its a snake". The man of islam grabs the tail and says "its a rope". The man of hinduism grabs the leg and says "its a tree". The blind christian grabs the ear and says "its a leaf." The Bible is the trainer telling the blind men "its a freakin elephant" and yet they still dont believe.
Someone said that God hasnt spoke to people for centuries. God speaks through the Bible and the Holy Spirit still to this day. After the Israelites entered the holy land it had been prophecied that a King of Kings would be born through the lineage of King David and they waited for over 400 years before God even spoke to anyone. Then the news of the birth of Christ came. Still they found it hard to believe that a peasant could be the king of kings. Over a hundred times in the Bible when Christ speaks he begins with "Truely, Truely I say to you", or "I tell you the truth". On questioning by Pilate after his capture He proclaims "I came to witness to the truth". Everyone on the planet has been offered the Truth and knows about Jesus. Its our free will to accept it or reject it.