God... Christ... The Bible

Cosmo

IMakeUSmile wrote:

Well, clearly that is a quote from the Bible and I use it to apply to my faith. The verses surrounding that one are about not having faith in God and I find it encouraging that even a tiny bit goes a long way.

I would assume that people who have FAITH in their God (Buddha, Mohammad, or Goddess and so on) have faith for a reason and I would hope that their faith lets them live lives where they feel they can accomplish great things with that faith in their heart.

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This I can understand.... FAITH. Personal Faith. Nothing anyone tells you can shake your faith... because it is personal to you.
And your 'Live and let believe' attitude is refreshing... and rare, coming from a Christian. Your faith works for you and you wish good wil towards others of a differing faith.
I believe there are many paths that lead towards God... and reject what I hear from many Christians... that many paths lead to accepting Jesus are your personal savior.

EddieLedBetter

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

hey, dude, do you believe in evolution of the species? all species?

Like I said I believe in evolution like I believe a wooden pencil evolved into a mechanical one. By creative intelligent design. They have similarities but are different creations in themselves. Yes I'm similar to a monkey but I dont crap in my hand and throw it at people. Just as a mechanical pencil has a shell (body) so the lead (soul) can continue being abundant and useful to its creator; this is the correlation to the soul/body.

so, how about, instead of dancing around the question, do you believe that (to put it ultra-simply) humans evolved from apes or not? or do you take the bible literally that we are all the children of adam and eve? if that's the case, how all the people who aren't white (or whichever race they were) got on earth is a mystery to me.

No I dont believe we evolved from apes the way scientific THEORY tries to explain it. I believe this. God is outside of any knowledge we perceive. He by his own scientific experimentation if you will, started "let there be light, a big bang but not what science thinks of the BB. Then with the elements, snowballed them into the galaxies and planets then single celled life. Snowballed it into animals and then eventually perfected all his experimentation to create us. I'm definitely a Christian that notes that what science says about an old earth and universe.

If God is real he is outside of time/gender/being. A day to God could be a billion years to us. We dont know what God is. As a follower of him we only know that he is good and perfect and loved us enough to send himself in human form to sacrifice and conquer death and our sin by Christ. I believe the lie to be anything anti-Christs' teaching of what he claimed to be truth.

To say that Adam and Eve are real people that existed; no I dont know that. I dont find it ironic that Adam and atom are similar. Granted the story may be put that way for our limited minds to grasp but there is power in that childrens story.

God is the missing link in scientific theories holes.

just like there is power that this man described in the essay of Jesus.

"Here is a man who was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in another village. He worked in a carpenter shop until He was thirty. Then for three years He was an itinerant preacher.
He never owned a home. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family. He never went to college. He never put His foot inside a big city. He never traveled two hundred miles from the place He was born. He never did one of the things that usually accompany greatness. He had no credentials but Himself...

While still a young man, the tide of popular opinion turned against him. His friends ran away. One of them denied Him. He was turned over to His enemies. He went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed upon a cross between two thieves. While He was dying His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had on earth – His coat. When He was dead, He was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.

Nineteen long centuries have come and gone, and today He is a centerpiece of the human race and leader of the column of progress.

I am far within the mark when I say that all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built; all the parliaments that ever sat and all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully as has that one solitary life"

No earthly man could ever possess that power.

he still stands

Christianity stole most of their concepts of paganism and made it obsolete by symbolizing the devil with the pagan god - Pan. What better way to make paganism dissappear than to convince everyone that Pan is the devil?

Pan is a dude I could follow. That hedonistic, silly, smelly fucker. I'd drink a beer with him.

Christ... meh. Ghandi did bigger and better things. So did John Lennon and a dozen other men and women during just the last century. Great people... but I sure as hell don't worship them.

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

No I dont believe we evolved from apes the way scientific THEORY tries to explain it. I believe this. God is outside of any knowledge we perceive.

oh boy...one of those that says evolution is a theory

EddieLedBetter

Johnny Sitar wrote:

this is the part I have been trying to tell you is so insulting. this "I pity you because life without god is 'all you have' " shit gets under my skin.

you need god to feel complete. I do not. yet I do not pity you and/or your existence. my brother used to be like you, but he has since realized that this way of going about things to spread the message is wrong. whatever you need/want to get through life is your perogitive. so I would expect the same respect from someone who claims to spread the message of god/christ/the ghost, which is "judge not".

Remember that one? unfortunately, the commandments seem to have a loophole, an asterisk if you will, when "god tells you" that's not what you are actually doing.

to me, the idea that we are here for one reason and one reason only, solely for some god's amusement, is ridiculously pathetic. not all religious people believe this, but I have to question those that do.

I'm sorry man I don't mean to talk down to you. That was never my intention. Like I said I used to disbelieve until the light was turned on in my dome.

Cosmo

EddieLedBetter wrote:

No I dont believe we evolved from apes the way scientific THEORY tries to explain it. I believe this. God is outside of any knowledge we perceive. He by his own scientific experimentation if you will, started "let there be light, a big bang but not what science thinks of the BB. Then with the elements, snowballed them into the galaxies and planets then single celled life. Snowballed it into animals and then eventually perfected all his experimentation to create us. I'm definitely a Christian that notes that what science says about an old earth and universe.
...

Didn't you just explain the basic concept of evolution... single celled to animals to man? You took the THEORY of Evolution and adopted it as your own personal BELIEF of Evolution. And on a side thought... if God quit experimenting after making us, because we are the best He can do... He's kind of a crappy all powerful, omnipotent being.
And don't discount Theory.... the theory of Gravity... the theory of plate tectonics... the theory of relativity. Pretty powerful aspects, don't you think?

he still stands

Gern Blansten wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

No I dont believe we evolved from apes the way scientific THEORY tries to explain it. I believe this. God is outside of any knowledge we perceive.

oh boy...one of those that says evolution is a theory

I can deal with the "theistic evolution" explanation... it seems to be irrefutable nor provable. But the hard-core creationists are scary.

Gern Blansten

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I'm sorry man I don't mean to talk down to you. That was never my intention. Like I said I used to disbelieve until the light was turned on in my dome.

that's fine but I think most of us used to believe and then gained knowledge that was enlightening

you don't seem to have basic understanding of anthropology and biology so you are discounted my friend

Hugh Freaking Dillon

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Like I said I used to disbelieve until the light was turned on in my dome.

man turns the light on himself. man created the light and the switch. the switch is inside you when you need to turn it on. that's all religion is and will ever be. to me at least.

Cosmo

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I'm sorry man I don't mean to talk down to you. That was never my intention. Like I said I used to disbelieve until the light was turned on in my dome.

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I'm glad to have the light of your life... i really am.
Just know this... your light is not mine or Johnny's or anyone else's. Don't feel like you need to flip the switch for any of us... that is part of our journey... let us discover what we are searching for. We do not need a guide because we take pleasure in the things we encounter along the way.
Find peace on your path...

gimmesometruth27

as i said in another thread, i was raised catholic but i left the church for various reasons, mostly things that i have seen as hypocracy, as well as a few other reasons, but that is a topic for a different day.

the thing that bothers me most about christians and catholics is not that they do not believe in evolution or are strict by the letter of the bible creationists...IMO they can believe what they want to believe. my gripe is that they feel a constant need to convert people or they force their beliefs onto others. when they are asked legitimate questions they always dismiss it and say "god gave me the information" or "god turned the light on in me..." to me it is all very condecending...this is the year 2010. there are tools like the internet and if people are interested in a different religion or conversion to yours, or are interested in giving up their freedom of thought in order to pursue your religion, it is their choice. don't make the rest of us read your attempts to persuade or disuade them...

the number one commandment should be "keep thy religion to thyself"....

cornnifer

Gern Blansten wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

[
Humans share the same evolutionary branch as the apes... in fact, we can classify ourselves as the greatest of the great apes..

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

disagree that AR has people scratching their heads.....come on man....just because that is your opinion doesn't make it so

It has nothing to do with my opinion. Ardipithicus Ramidus was a biped and greatly predates any of the quadripeds in the hominid fossil record. That's simply scientific truth. The Darwinian evolutionary model has always suggested that hominid bipedalism developed as a result of an evolutionary driving force. You know, that ape to man hominid line that you see illustrated all the time. The one that inspired my t-shirt quip. The illustration that shows ape like quadripeds gradually morphing into an upright human. Ardi predates any of those. You see, it fucks up the whole model. It disrupts the theory of an evolutionary driving force for bipedalism. Hence, a bit of head scratching is, in fact, in order.

cornnifer

Cosmo wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

Highly speculative. Science is great. Do you actually follow it? What i mean is, do you keep up. Do you look at all theories or do you cherrypick and regurgitate speculative hypothesis and call it fact? Last year's discovery of Ardipithicus Ramidus, once again has Darwinian biologists scratching their collective head. A biped that predates strict quadripeds (knucklewalkers) by approximayely a million and a half years. It doesn't fit the hypothesized line. You know, that one you always see on t-shirts and shit. It fucks it all up.
"But human DNA and chimpanzee DNA are 98% similar." So. Actually, when certain things are considered (i'm not a scientist and can't adequately explain it) it factors to more like 90%, but i'll not argue.
What i think is funny is that Human DNA is 35% similar to that of a daffodil. i guess humans are more than one third daffodil.

...
I checked up briefly on Ardipithicus Ramidus... why does is shake the theory of evolution, in your opinion? It just seems to be another in the Evolutionary scale... one of the earliest hominids.
And I hope you realize... that bipeds live along side with quadripeds (4 legged animals, such as horses, ox and wolves)... and have lived along side with them for millions of years, right?
...
Update:
I'll go look for the t-shirts...
I can't find any t-shirts. Please, send me someplace to find one of these shirts that you always see.

No, not ONE of the earliest hominids, it predates, significantly, any of the hominids in the fossil record. And was bipedal! it doesn't fit in the posited scale. That's the point.
As far as horses and oxen are concerned, i'm not quite following your line of reason. As you yourself say, bipeds have lived ALONGSIDE quadripeds. i know your not suggesting humans descended FROM horses and oxen. ALONGSIDE works for me. You'll get no argument there.

P.S. if you look har enough i'm sure you'll find not only t-shirts, but posters, bumper stickers and a whole lot of other merchandise emblazoned with the suggested ape to mine hominid line that Ardipithicus Ramidus completely upends.

Cosmo

Double Post...

Cosmo

cornnifer wrote:

No, not ONE of the earliest hominids, it predates, significantly, any of the hominids in the fossil record. And was bipedal! it doesn't fit in the posited scale. That's the point.
As far as horses and oxen are concerned, i'm not quite following your line of reason. As you yourself say, bipeds have lived ALONGSIDE quadripeds. i know your not suggesting humans descended FROM horses and oxen. ALONGSIDE works for me. You'll get no argument there.

P.S. if you look har enough i'm sure you'll find not only t-shirts, but posters, bumper stickers and a whole lot of other merchandise emblazoned with the suggested ape to mine hominid line that Ardipithicus Ramidus completely upends.

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I STILL don't understand your point.... are you saying that you do not believe that modern man evolved from Ardipithicus Ramidus?
Ardipithicus Ramidus is the earliest hominid... of which we have evolved from... over a period of about 5 million years. Apes, specifically, chimpanzees, are our closet living relatives. We share the the same evolutionary branch... we are primates. What science (via the theory of evolution) is saying is that there is a common ancestor out there that we have not located yet that links the species.
No one on the science side of the debate is saying that we have all of the pieces, yet.
The people who believe we have complete picture are the ones who tewll us it's all there in the Bible.
...
So, I still don't know why you toss the earliest Hominid into your side of the debate, claiminh it disproves Darwin's theory.
...
As for the t-shirts and bumber stickers... WHERE? URL, please.
My guess... fundamentalist Christian sites or the Creationist Museum Store... right?

cornnifer

Cosmo wrote:

cornnifer wrote:

No, not ONE of the earliest hominids, it predates, significantly, any of the hominids in the fossil record. And was bipedal! it doesn't fit in the posited scale. That's the point.
As far as horses and oxen are concerned, i'm not quite following your line of reason. As you yourself say, bipeds have lived ALONGSIDE quadripeds. i know your not suggesting humans descended FROM horses and oxen. ALONGSIDE works for me. You'll get no argument there.

P.S. if you look har enough i'm sure you'll find not only t-shirts, but posters, bumper stickers and a whole lot of other merchandise emblazoned with the suggested ape to mine hominid line that Ardipithicus Ramidus completely upends.

...
I STILL don't understand your point.... are you saying that you do not believe that modern man evolved from Ardipithicus Ramidus?
Ardipithicus Ramidus is the earliest hominid... of which we have evolved from... over a period of about 5 million years. Apes, specifically, chimpanzees, are our closet living relatives. We share the the same evolutionary branch... we are primates. What science (via the theory of evolution) is saying is that there is a common ancestor out there that we have not located yet that links the species.
No one on the science side of the debate is saying that we have all of the pieces, yet.
The people who believe we have complete picture are the ones who tewll us it's all there in the Bible.
...
So, I still don't know why you toss the earliest Hominid into your side of the debate, claiminh it disproves Darwin's theory.
...
As for the t-shirts and bumber stickers... WHERE? URL, please.
My guess... fundamentalist Christian sites or the Creationist Museum Store... right?

i'm talking about this.
Ardi fucks it up. This model is broken because of Ardi.

http://www.uni-kl.de/aegee/kaiserslaute ... lution.jpg

Wilds

cornnifer wrote:

No, not ONE of the earliest hominids, it predates, significantly, any of the hominids in the fossil record. And was bipedal! it doesn't fit in the posited scale. That's the point.
As far as horses and oxen are concerned, i'm not quite following your line of reason. As you yourself say, bipeds have lived ALONGSIDE quadripeds. i know your not suggesting humans descended FROM horses and oxen. ALONGSIDE works for me. You'll get no argument there.

P.S. if you look har enough i'm sure you'll find not only t-shirts, but posters, bumper stickers and a whole lot of other merchandise emblazoned with the suggested ape to mine hominid line that Ardipithicus Ramidus completely upends.

I enjoy reading these threads, but try to stay out of the debate as nothing is ever settled and no one ever has their opinion altered.

Anyway, I'm ringing in here cause I don't believe that Cornnifer's point makes any sense. From reading about Ardipithicus Ramidus, it seems to me that "she" would fit in perfectly with that evolution progression.

She would simply be the first bipedal hominid in the line after some type of early ape. She actually bridges the gap perfectly, cause she was bipedal on the ground and quadrupedal while climbing through the trees.

Seems to strengthen the argument of evolution.

Cosmo

cornnifer wrote:

i'm talking about this.
Ardi fucks it up. This model is broken because of Ardi.

http://www.uni-kl.de/aegee/kaiserslaute ... lution.jpg

...
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FRICKEN' KIDDING ME!!!
Are you serious?
...
The one good thing I got out of this... I learned more about Evolution... and the weaknesses of the arguements of those who support Creationism.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... midus.html

this is a good article that sheds some light on the issue. it seems to point to the fact that Ardi is a human ancestor, but of course, it's still too early to tell for sure. I'm sure this will be debated between those in the science community for a long time.

Wilds

Johnny Sitar wrote:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/10/091001-oldest-human-skeleton-ardi-missing-link-chimps-ardipithecus-ramidus.html

this is a good article that sheds some light on the issue. it seems to point to the fact that Ardi is a human ancestor, but of course, it's still too early to tell for sure. I'm sure this will be debated between those in the science community for a long time.

Nice. Thank you.