Immigration

onelongsong wrote:

i'm not bitchin, hon. if i were bitchin i'd tell you how the us government requires public entities and employers to be predudice against whites by law. i'd tell you about my daughter who was top in her class but the only student who didn't receive a grant because she was not of black or hispanic decent. if i wanted to bitch; i'd tell several stories. but bitching doesn't do any good. the government has only provided a breeding ground for hatred.
so slide over a bit and we'll watch the bloody yanks self destruct together.

I know you're not! I was just being cheeky! Hmmm.....didn't you get that about me yet? Thought I'd made it pretty clear! Have to try harder! Anyhow, guess I just wanted you to forget about these things that governments do for a little while because we live in an age of appalling government and policy and it's happening everywhere. Love to tell you that it's all wine and roses here in the lucky country but little Johnny has put paid to that! So guess all good people need to unite and take back the reins. And we could do that so much better if we are all together! So yeah, lets pick a spot and spectate!

onelongsong wrote:

they say no man is a country but i; and the others around me are our own country. we protect our borders; we are the law on our own ranches; and government or world events really don't effect us other than global warming.
but the road here wasn't easy. i agree with a lot of what you say. i also see the hate bred by affirmative action. i see countries like mexico rich in oil and gold treat it's people worse than animals. i see third world countries refuse to educate their people dispite all the help the us tries to offer. when someone earning 25 bloody cents a day comes here and earns $5.00/hour you call it slavery. i greatly admire you for immigrating legally and i hope you prosper as my immigrant family did. but keep in mind that your job may be in danger when someone is willing to do it cheaper. this country worships the almighty dollar and if i'm willing to do your job for less; i will get your job.
that mate; is the bottom line.

Of course people are going to take my job for cheaper wages. It makes the top dog that much more richer. When they get it though their heads that you can't take it with you. The world will be a much better place.

As somebody has said before..............It is a sad day when Mexicans are going back to Mexico for good paying American jobs. Just thought that had to be said after reading what you typed.

CorporateWhore wrote:

I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.

It's strange that you link the above to immigration.

Reject theft...certainly. Reject the right of people to live where they choose? I hope not.

onelongsong wrote:

so if you'd fancy living in france; you believe you should be able to walk in undocumented and do as you please?

That depends how loaded your question is. If you remove the "do as you please" part, yes. Otherwise, not necessarily.

Immigrants have no right to "do as they please" if that means committing violent crime and generally leaching off of others. In the context of the original post, however, I wonder why the immigrants are being blamed as opposed to those behind the services themselves that allow said immigrants (and others) to leach off of others.

inmytree wrote:

exactly...when given a free lunch, should one say, "no, thanks, I'll pay for it"...

Yes, actually. But the person giving out free lunches shouldn't be surprised when people take them.

it's the system, not the people...fingers can be pointed at illegals, but it does not take away from the fact that social programs are basically free lunches with noone telling anybody to stop eating....

Exactly. I fail to see how the immigrant leech is any better or worse than the domestic one.

inmytree wrote:

exactly...when given a free lunch, should one say, "no, thanks, I'll pay for it"...

it's the system, not the people...fingers can be pointed at illegals, but it does not take away from the fact that social programs are basically free lunches with noone telling anybody to stop eating....

Not everybody holds this attitude. I absolutely must pay my own way wherever and whenever I can, which is mostly always. I can barely think of an occasion when I would allow someone else to pay for me. And I know I'm not the only person in the world with that attitude. Illegals, immigrants or nationals, most people are hard working, independant individuals who strive to pay their own way. The only time I could really see this being an issue is when they AREN'T ABLE to do that. And that can happen to anyone for a number of reasons. Maybe, even one day you. Is this really an issue? If you add it all up does it come out in favor of the underclasses and immigrants or is it really the corporates and big money earners that are snaffling the troth dry? And besides there's no such thing as a free lunch.

onelongsong wrote:

then consider this. if one can move around the world freely as those move freely between states in the us; then we need a world government.

Why?

if i can commit crimes; murder; etc in one state; there must be a [federal] government to track and prosecute me.

That's a very bad use of the word "must". There is a federal government to do that, but that doesn't mean there "must" be. State goverments can also track an prosecute you.

imagine someone like ted bundy traveling the world killing at will; only to move to another region and be free.

Ok. I did imagine that. I also imagined him being eventually apprehended by local authorities somewhere. That was fun.

so who will lead the world government? the queen? bush? bin ladin?

No one.


Look, all of this crap is irrelevant to the issue of immigration itself. Should criminals should be tracked and punished? Yes. Should the innocent be grouped in with the criminals just because they share non-criminal characteristics with those criminals? No.

The fact remains that immigrants, by and large, come to America for a chance at a life that is not possible are available to them in their home nations. For their resolve and their efforts, they should be applauded. Those among them that commit crimes should be punished, just as those criminals among the citizenry should be punished. Those among them that wish only to be leeches should have that opportunity removed from them. But to extend the problems of crime and leeching to immigration itself is no different than extending it to other characteristics like race. If I proposed that all black people should be sent back to Africa just because they commit crimes at a higher rate than whites, would I be logical in doing so???

onelongsong wrote:

going a step further; let's say there's 1 million illegals in california. this means government and all services are overloaded. by 1 million people. there are not enough police because cencus says there 1 million less people. welfare is stressed; schools are stressed; dept of corrections are stressed; courts are stressed.
so what's the answer? double every hard working persons taxes to accomodate the influx?

No. The answer is to stop taxing anyone -- stop giving away services to all at the cost of a few. If you've built a system of freebies, why are you complaining when people ask you to give them something for nothing????

The very same logic you detail above can be extended to controlling birth rates among the poor, or forced gentrification in urban areas.

inmytree wrote:

I'm thinking you missed my point...which is the current Welfare/Entitlement System can be and is easily abused by both legals and illegals...

also, I'm a fan of having a social safety net, I think it's a very important part of our country...however, again, it's used and abused...

finally, I, in no way intented to imply or did I say that illegals or nationals or whatever you want to call them, are not hard working people...

and by the way, I've had a free lunch...and it was good...it's nice when a friend or co-worker picks up the tab...;)

Yeah, think I did inmytree. Sorry. Glad you clarified it for me! I think we mostly agree. Although, like I said "there's no such thing as a free lunch", so you get back to me when you have to pay up with the friend or co-worker! There's more than one way to pay for something! I'll be interested to know what it cost you! Especially from the co-worker!