Immigration

CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
I've said some things about immigration that some on this board have been disgusted by. I would like to have further discussion of this issue. I've said that immigration should be lessened because the baggage that third world immigrants are bringing with them is detrimental to our economy and government.

It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.

The vast majority of immigrants from third world countries (especially south america) are at or around the poverty line. They come to America with little if any education and immediately begin receiving various government services. 40 percent of all illegal immigrants are working for cash and not paying taxes.

They also tend toward crime more than real americans: 75 percent of the people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

They're hard workers? In Los Angeles (where many illegal aliens live), less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare. How the hell are they on welfare when they don't pay taxes and are not citizens? We let them. Maybe if we kicked them off it, they'd tell all their friends not to come.

What happens to a social welfare system that allows massive immigration from third world countries whose people are poor and uneducated? That social welfare system collapses. Our system cannot handle this burden. It was one thing in the early 1900s when our system wasn't as full of welfare and entitlements as it is now.

You need to increase the number of rich people paying taxes while you increase immigration from poor countries. In 1990, hispanics accounted for 9 percent of the population. Today, they account for 14.4 percent. This is all from immigration folks.

I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.

This country is going down the tubes and the Republicans and Democrats are pulling us down.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    I've said some things about immigration that some on this board have been disgusted by. I would like to have further discussion of this issue. I've said that immigration should be lessened because the baggage that third world immigrants are bringing with them is detrimental to our economy and government.

    It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.

    The vast majority of immigrants from third world countries (especially south america) are at or around the poverty line. They come to America with little if any education and immediately begin receiving various government services. 40 percent of all illegal immigrants are working for cash and not paying taxes.

    They also tend toward crime more than real americans: 75 percent of the people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

    They're hard workers? In Los Angeles (where many illegal aliens live), less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare. How the hell are they on welfare when they don't pay taxes and are not citizens? We let them. Maybe if we kicked them off it, they'd tell all their friends not to come.

    What happens to a social welfare system that allows massive immigration from third world countries whose people are poor and uneducated? That social welfare system collapses. Our system cannot handle this burden. It was one thing in the early 1900s when our system wasn't as full of welfare and entitlements as it is now.

    You need to increase the number of rich people paying taxes while you increase immigration from poor countries. In 1990, hispanics accounted for 9 percent of the population. Today, they account for 14.4 percent. This is all from immigration folks.

    I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.

    This country is going down the tubes and the Republicans and Democrats are pulling us down.

    all americans are immigrants; but i agree with most of what you say. here in arizona we have laws to protect us. you have to prove you're in this country legally; anyone rendering aid to an illegal goes to jail. if an EMT comes to a scene of an accident and offers aid to an illegal; they go to jail. the law says you leave them to die or go to jail. these are propositions the tax payers voted in because they are tired of paying for these people. as more states have bigger problems they will enact laws too.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    all americans are immigrants; but i agree with most of what you say. here in arizona we have laws to protect us. you have to prove you're in this country legally; anyone rendering aid to an illegal goes to jail. if an EMT comes to a scene of an accident and offers aid to an illegal; they go to jail. the law says you leave them to die or go to jail. these are propositions the tax payers voted in because they are tired of paying for these people. as more states have bigger problems they will enact laws too.

    Glad I don't live where you live or I'd be in jail sooner or later.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • i'm a proud liberal, but i have to agree that immigration needs to get under control. i realize we are all immigrants (mostly all anyways), but 2006 is a much different time in the world than 1880, 0r 1930. we need to control our population period. with so many americans in need, we have to make sure we're looking out for our legals first and foremost.
    those undecided, needn't have faith to be free
  • bryanfury wrote:
    i'm a proud liberal, but i have to agree that immigration needs to get under control. i realize we are all immigrants (mostly all anyways), but 2006 is a much different time in the world than 1880, 0r 1930. we need to control our population period. with so many americans in need, we have to make sure we're looking out for our legals first and foremost.

    Amen. Americans first.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    all americans are immigrants; but i agree with most of what you say. here in arizona we have laws to protect us. you have to prove you're in this country legally; anyone rendering aid to an illegal goes to jail. if an EMT comes to a scene of an accident and offers aid to an illegal; they go to jail. the law says you leave them to die or go to jail. these are propositions the tax payers voted in because they are tired of paying for these people. as more states have bigger problems they will enact laws too.

    People who vote and support these things seem to be the uneducated ones. It was also not the illegals who voted for these waste of time wars and waste of time politicians. The avg american seems to be what's hurting America the most.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    bryanfury wrote:
    i'm a proud liberal, but i have to agree that immigration needs to get under control. i realize we are all immigrants (mostly all anyways), but 2006 is a much different time in the world than 1880, 0r 1930. we need to control our population period. with so many americans in need, we have to make sure we're looking out for our legals first and foremost.

    I agree with this as well, though I think laws that forbid peope to help other people are just insane.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • MrBrian wrote:
    People who vote and support these things seem to be the uneducated ones. It was also not the illegals who voted for these waste of time wars and waste of time politicians. The avg american seems to be what's hurting America the most.

    Wow.

    All I can say is: wow.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    if an EMT comes to a scene of an accident and offers aid to an illegal; they go to jail.

    BS.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    all americans are immigrants;

    really? cause i was born here I didn't realize that made me an immigrant. I thought an immigrant was a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there.

    I know what you're saying but it's not technically true.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • chopitdown wrote:
    really? cause i was born here I didn't realize that made me an immigrant. I thought an immigrant was a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there.

    I know what you're saying but it's not technically true.

    Our ancestors were immigrants. They were also treated skeptically, as they should've been. They weren't americans and needed to prove that they wanted to be americans and weren't still "Irish" or "Polish" or "Italian." American.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Our ancestors were immigrants. They were also treated skeptically, as they should've been. They weren't americans and needed to prove that they wanted to be americans and weren't still "Irish" or "Polish" or "Italian." American.

    Cuz George Washington said so.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Our ancestors were immigrants. They were also treated skeptically, as they should've been. They weren't americans and needed to prove that they wanted to be americans and weren't still "Irish" or "Polish" or "Italian." American.

    oh, I understood the comment and what they meant, I'm just feeling like splitting hairs right now.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • i went to the mall and people looked like a bunch of crazy hyenas-all out for themselves -america land of the greedy

    but if i went to india and was in a crowded market it may seem better then again too crowded
  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    not that I agree with anything says about fences and borders, but my question is Why do you find it so important to build these damn fence? Why don't you spend money on helping our children learn free thinking? while you all talk about constraints, your future is at stake...

    now....a right-winger told me that he feels borders should be in place becasue of distribution of resources...and another point was that it's against human rights to allow people to come into country undocumented becasue of their uncertification, they have no ablility to benefit or thrive...meaning as illegal stauts the only work available is menial...you don't see non documented doctors or pharmacists, aye????


    love ya jammers; thanks for talking about my favorite subject...well it's not a favorite, but most definitely passionate; second to cannabis...1st to humantiy....
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    melodious wrote:
    not that I agree with anything says about fences and borders, but my question is Why do you find it so important to build these damn fence? Why don't you spend money on helping our children learn free thinking? while you all talk about constraints, your future is at stake...

    now....a right-winger told me that he feels borders should be in place becasue of distribution of resources...and another point was that it's against human rights to allow people to come into country undocumented becasue of their uncertification, they have no ablility to benefit or thrive...meaning as illegal stauts the only work available is menial...you don't see non documented doctors or pharmacists, aye????


    love ya jammers; thanks for talking about my favorite subject...well it's not a favorite, but most definitely passionate; second to cannabis...1st to humantiy....

    I don't know that enough money could be spent in the endevour of free thinking however honorable the cause. Money? looks like good flamestarter to me.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • America is the greatest country on the planet....depending on your definition of greatest. People will continue to migrate here regardless...And with damn good reason.

    I believe the best we can do at this point is paddle with the rip current and embrace them as consumers and laborers...

    Anyways I was doing some snowboarding yesterday at Snowbird, Utah and during my lunch break I was served a beer by this kiwi chick...I said hey are you one of the lucky ones who get to migrate back and fourth from southern and northern hemispheres to continually keep riding year round? because I know several who do...
    She responded with a hell no...I'm staying here until they kick me out. She said she had been here two years. 18 months past her visa... My ex-roommate from new zealand did the same thing. If you ever absolutely wanted to make him by beer you could just whisper the words INS...and you were drinking all night on his dime. Although I never played that card unless I was really thirsty.

    Just a couple cases in point that people want to be here and will break laws or climb walls to do so...I say take advantage of the current where possible...
  • I've said some things about immigration that some on this board have been disgusted by. I would like to have further discussion of this issue. I've said that immigration should be lessened because the baggage that third world immigrants are bringing with them is detrimental to our economy and government.

    It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.

    The vast majority of immigrants from third world countries (especially south america) are at or around the poverty line. They come to America with little if any education and immediately begin receiving various government services. 40 percent of all illegal immigrants are working for cash and not paying taxes.

    They also tend toward crime more than real americans: 75 percent of the people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

    They're hard workers? In Los Angeles (where many illegal aliens live), less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare. How the hell are they on welfare when they don't pay taxes and are not citizens? We let them. Maybe if we kicked them off it, they'd tell all their friends not to come.

    What happens to a social welfare system that allows massive immigration from third world countries whose people are poor and uneducated? That social welfare system collapses. Our system cannot handle this burden. It was one thing in the early 1900s when our system wasn't as full of welfare and entitlements as it is now.

    You need to increase the number of rich people paying taxes while you increase immigration from poor countries. In 1990, hispanics accounted for 9 percent of the population. Today, they account for 14.4 percent. This is all from immigration folks.

    I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.

    This country is going down the tubes and the Republicans and Democrats are pulling us down.

    You're painting with broad strokes. Immigration is an incredibly complicated issue. You can't just deport millions of people, it's logistically impossible. Furthermore you can't build a fence around the perimeter of the US, especially difficult in those tricky water areas. If someone had an easy answer, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
    one foot in the door
    the other foot in the gutter
    sweet smell that they adore
    I think I'd rather smother
    -The Replacements-
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    I hate to sound cliche, but immigration as we know it is the slave trade. Immigrants have no workers' rights. They can't form unions, they can't sue an employer for rights violations, contract violations...etc. So, employers pay them whatever they feel like paying them and treat them however they feel like treating them.

    The result is the median wage being kept below the inflation rate, contributing to the gaps between the social classes. And that's where I see the problem.

    And people say that illegals are filling jobs that Americans don't want. I think the ansewr to that is that they're jobs that Americans don't want to do for the wages that employers want to pay because they can always hire an illegal to do it cheaper.

    And when we purchase services or products from businesses that employ illegals, we put money into the pockets of people who send a lot of that money back to Mexico instead of recirculating it back into our economy.

    This, of course, slows the market, which in turn creates an across-the-board wage reduction while business owners pocket the profits from lower salary expenses, thus contributing to the gap between the classes.
  • sponger wrote:
    I hate to sound cliche, but immigration as we know it is the slave trade. Immigrants have no workers' rights. They can't form unions, they can't sue an employer for rights violations, contract violations...etc. So, employers pay them whatever they feel like paying them and treat them however they feel like treating them.

    The result is the median wage being kept below the inflation rate, contributing to the gaps between the social classes. And that's where I see the problem.

    And people say that illegals are filling jobs that Americans don't want. I think the ansewr to that is that they're jobs that Americans don't want to do for the wages that employers want to pay because they can always hire an illegal to do it cheaper.

    And when we purchase services or products from businesses that employ illegals, we put money into the pockets of people who send a lot of that money back to Mexico instead of recirculating it back into our economy.

    This, of course, slows the market, which in turn creates an across-the-board wage reduction while business owners pocket the profits from lower salary expenses, thus contributing to the gap between the classes.

    This person is way too rational and smart for this thread....come on don't bring us down with your logic.
    one foot in the door
    the other foot in the gutter
    sweet smell that they adore
    I think I'd rather smother
    -The Replacements-
  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    America is the greatest country on the planet....depending on your definition of greatest. People will continue to migrate here regardless...And with damn good reason.

    I believe the best we can do at this point is paddle with the rip current and embrace them as consumers and laborers...

    Anyways I was doing some snowboarding yesterday at Snowbird, Utah and during my lunch break I was served a beer by this kiwi chick...I said hey are you one of the lucky ones who get to migrate back and fourth from southern and northern hemispheres to continually keep riding year round? because I know several who do...
    She responded with a hell no...I'm staying here until they kick me out. She said she had been here two years. 18 months past her visa... My ex-roommate from new zealand did the same thing. If you ever absolutely wanted to make him by beer you could just whisper the words INS...and you were drinking all night on his dime. Although I never played that card unless I was really thirsty.

    Just a couple cases in point that people want to be here and will break laws or climb walls to do so...I say take advantage of the current where possible...
    exploitation of humans; ie blackmail by americans, no???? my question is do you mention that word, Ins?

    great points for thought...
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I say "come one, come all"....and make it easy to become a legal citizen. If you don't like people who truly want to be here and contribute, then go somewhere else.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • dkst0426dkst0426 Posts: 523
    all americans are immigrants; but i agree with most of what you say. here in arizona we have laws to protect us. you have to prove you're in this country legally; anyone rendering aid to an illegal goes to jail. if an EMT comes to a scene of an accident and offers aid to an illegal; they go to jail. the law says you leave them to die or go to jail. these are propositions the tax payers voted in because they are tired of paying for these people. as more states have bigger problems they will enact laws too.
    I'd like to ask if you could please verify this, because as a former EMT, that's quite alarming, and I've searched a good bit for reports confirming this and have been unsuccessful.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    all americans are immigrants; but i agree with most of what you say. here in arizona we have laws to protect us. you have to prove you're in this country legally; anyone rendering aid to an illegal goes to jail. if an EMT comes to a scene of an accident and offers aid to an illegal; they go to jail. the law says you leave them to die or go to jail. these are propositions the tax payers voted in because they are tired of paying for these people. as more states have bigger problems they will enact laws too.

    I'm tired of paying for a lot of people and problems that have nothing to do with immigration. By this so-called logic in the post above, perhaps I should let those people die if they need help?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    know1 wrote:
    I say "come one, come all"....and make it easy to become a legal citizen. If you don't like people who truly want to be here and contribute, then go somewhere else.

    go where? try sneeking into any other country and you get shot.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    dkst0426 wrote:
    I'd like to ask if you could please verify this, because as a former EMT, that's quite alarming, and I've searched a good bit for reports confirming this and have been unsuccessful.

    i believe this was voted in the 2000 general election. proposition 200 or 201 i think. try the arizona legislature website. it may still be in the supreme court as emts and law enforcement need to authenticate a persons legal status before rendering aid. their grounds are/were that a legal citizen's aid could be delayed while their legal status is being verified. if i have time over the weekend i'll search and try to find a link for you.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    I've said some things about immigration that some on this board have been disgusted by. I would like to have further discussion of this issue. I've said that immigration should be lessened because the baggage that third world immigrants are bringing with them is detrimental to our economy and government.

    It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.

    The vast majority of immigrants from third world countries (especially south america) are at or around the poverty line. They come to America with little if any education and immediately begin receiving various government services. 40 percent of all illegal immigrants are working for cash and not paying taxes.

    They also tend toward crime more than real americans: 75 percent of the people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

    They're hard workers? In Los Angeles (where many illegal aliens live), less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare. How the hell are they on welfare when they don't pay taxes and are not citizens? We let them. Maybe if we kicked them off it, they'd tell all their friends not to come.

    What happens to a social welfare system that allows massive immigration from third world countries whose people are poor and uneducated? That social welfare system collapses. Our system cannot handle this burden. It was one thing in the early 1900s when our system wasn't as full of welfare and entitlements as it is now.

    You need to increase the number of rich people paying taxes while you increase immigration from poor countries. In 1990, hispanics accounted for 9 percent of the population. Today, they account for 14.4 percent. This is all from immigration folks.

    I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.

    This country is going down the tubes and the Republicans and Democrats are pulling us down.


    Grab a hammer and chisel and head on over to Ellis Island to change the greeting on Ms. Liberty. ;)
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,952
    well i will say that i consider my self an immigrant since i did come here not being a resident way back in 1971 since then i have become a citizen i vote pay taxes never been arrested so i feel for all these folks that have to leave their birth places but really they don't have to many choices since their own countries are worst off than us here in the states people are not coming here just to leave their own countries they reall see no other way to make a living where they live ,just think about it for a moment imagine having to leave the US because we could not make a living it would suck no ????? so yes something has to be done to curtail the problem and i wish i had the answers but i don't ...........
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    sponger wrote:
    I hate to sound cliche, but immigration as we know it is the slave trade. Immigrants have no workers' rights. They can't form unions, they can't sue an employer for rights violations, contract violations...etc. So, employers pay them whatever they feel like paying them and treat them however they feel like treating them.

    The result is the median wage being kept below the inflation rate, contributing to the gaps between the social classes. And that's where I see the problem.

    And people say that illegals are filling jobs that Americans don't want. I think the ansewr to that is that they're jobs that Americans don't want to do for the wages that employers want to pay because they can always hire an illegal to do it cheaper.

    And when we purchase services or products from businesses that employ illegals, we put money into the pockets of people who send a lot of that money back to Mexico instead of recirculating it back into our economy.

    This, of course, slows the market, which in turn creates an across-the-board wage reduction while business owners pocket the profits from lower salary expenses, thus contributing to the gap between the classes.

    great start. let's talk about the pregnant women who sneek over to birth an american citizen and therefore get to stay and enjoy welfare and medical services at the taxpayers expense. to us; welfare is something to look down on. to a mexican making pennies a day it's like hitting the lottery.
    those who say illegals pay taxes they can't file for a return to get back; thus putting money in the governments pockets; how much taxes are taken from a $200/week paycheck? furthermore; a check cannot be issued without a social security number so most of the illegals are being paid cash.
    california jails are filled with illegals that the taxpayers pay up to $80,000/year to house each. this takes money from services legal citizens deserve.
    a friends wife works for a large hospital in phoenix and millions are written off for services to illegals not paying their bills; thus the high cost of healthcare and the biggest support for the proposition.
    this is just the beginning of what illegals are costing YOU.
  • even flow? wrote:
    Grab a hammer and chisel and head on over to Ellis Island to change the greeting on Ms. Liberty. ;)

    Trust me, I would.

    The french can take their damn plaque back.

    I don't want huddled masses...or poor or hungry. I want educated people who are willing to work and bust their ass and not steal my tax dollars.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    well i will say that i consider my self an immigrant since i did come here not being a resident way back in 1971 since then i have become a citizen i vote pay taxes never been arrested so i feel for all these folks that have to leave their birth places but really they don't have to many choices since their own countries are worst off than us here in the states people are not coming here just to leave their own countries they reall see no other way to make a living where they live ,just think about it for a moment imagine having to leave the US because we could not make a living it would suck no ????? so yes something has to be done to curtail the problem and i wish i had the answers but i don't ...........

    i honor those who wait in line to immigrate legally. my grandfather had a dream to come to america and did it the legal way. we're all immigrants but there's a legal way to do it. i hope you find the american dream. if you came here legally; you deserve it.
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