Yeah, sort of agree with you here ASL. Except that if you are an asylum seeker who has had to flee your country due to persecution you would be desperate enough to pay anything and do anything to ensure the safety & survival of your family. "6 months in a leaky boat" can't be much fun, so how much worse for them if they stayed? Many of them sell everything and leave with only the clothes on their backs. And I'm sure that their "papers" are taken by pirates or other undesirables out for a quick buck or not even thought about in the furtid dash. The business of people trafficking is a very, very lucrative one and fraught with vile people hoping to benefit from desperation and human suffering. If the Australian government was really fair dinkum about stopping the boats they'd stop blaming the poor sods that get on them and take the fight to where it really belongs. With the Indonesian Government. But Johnny won't do that because he's gutless. It is not beyond our government to fix these problems and ensure the safety of our borders. They simply choose not to.
Yeah you do have good points I will give you that. Although I'm not sure its the most desperate people who are trying to access Australia illegally. If they can pay these vile business people obscene amounts of money are they really in such hardship? Why can't they move via the proper channels if they have the financial ability to do so? And if they are coming from Islamic countries (where most of them are coming from of late) why do they bypass countries such as Indonesia and try to get into Australia? Are you 100% sure they are not simply wanting a better life, rather than be so desperate as to get somewhere safe? It is a complicated issue and I disagree with the federal government on the points we've already discussed eg:TPV holders. I did volunteer work with an asylum seeker agency for uni and that really opened my eyes. I don't think its a black and white issue......
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
Yeah you do have good points I will give you that. Although I'm not sure its the most desperate people who are trying to access Australia illegally. If they can pay these vile business people obscene amounts of money are they really in such hardship? Why can't they move via the proper channels if they have the financial ability to do so? And if they are coming from Islamic countries (where most of them are coming from of late) why do they bypass countries such as Indonesia and try to get into Australia? Are you 100% sure they are not simply wanting a better life, rather than be so desperate as to get somewhere safe? It is a complicated issue and I disagree with the federal government on the points we've already discussed eg:TPV holders. I did volunteer work with an asylum seeker agency for uni and that really opened my eyes. I don't think its a black and white issue......
No I agree it's not black and white. Course I'm not 100% sure but I do think some people sell everything they own to come here and they risk alot just trying to get a place on the boats. And I think that they can't go through "proper channels" because they are not in a situation where that is an option for them. Look at those poor buggers that came from West Papua. If they'd tried through the proper channels they would have been found and executed by the Indonesian government. No two ways about it. Look there are definately people that are here illegally that should be found and returned (mostly bloody Kiwis & Poms;)) but we cannot as a nation of fair minded and kind people allow those boat journeys to continue and to perpertrate the human rights violations that we are in the name of our current "immigration" policies. And our government should be able to enact a fair system to ensure that all bases are covered.
So how was the volunteering? Interesting?
No I agree it's not black and white. Course I'm not 100% sure but I do think some people sell everything they own to come here and they risk alot just trying to get a place on the boats. And I think that they can't go through "proper channels" because they are not in a situation where that is an option for them. Look at those poor buggers that came from West Papua. If they'd tried through the proper channels they would have been found and executed by the Indonesian government. No two ways about it. Look there are definately people that are here illegally that should be found and returned (mostly bloody Kiwis ) but we cannot as a nation of fair minded and kind people allow those boat journeys to continue and to perpertrate the human rights violations that we are in the name of our current "immigration" policies.
So how was the volunteering? Interesting?
But how does Australia stop the boat journeys? Either we have a completely hardline approach to it and try to stop demand (which is what we are trying to do somewhat atm) or we basically let anyone who wishes to come here do so. I think either way is not on, there has to be a middle ground somewhere. You are right about the West Papuans, the Indonesian goverment has a lot to answer for. I think if someone is a real refugee then they should be quickly settled into the country. However if they are proven not to be, they should be quickly returned, and don't allow people to appeal multiple times which takes years at times and cost a heck of money. The volunteering was quite interesting, it opened my eyes. My stance on this issue was more right-wing than after I finished (not that I've completely changed my stance but a somewhat). The agency cannot get anywhere with the federal government, they are just hopeless. Although I think its slightly better now that Philip Ruddock is not the minister, Vanstone is slightly better. I agree fully about the Kiwis....unless they happen to be good at the arts or sport because we like to steal the talented ones. Just ask Russell Crowe! hehe
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
But how does Australia stop the boat journeys? Either we have a completely hardline approach to it and try to stop demand (which is what we are trying to do somewhat atm) or we basically let anyone who wishes to come here do so. I think either way is not on, there has to be a middle ground somewhere. You are right about the West Papuans, the Indonesian goverment has a lot to answer for. I think if someone is a real refugee then they should be quickly settled into the country. However if they are proven not to be, they should be quickly returned, and don't allow people to appeal multiple times which takes years at times and cost a heck of money. The volunteering was quite interesting, it opened my eyes. My stance on this issue was more right-wing than after I finished (not that I've completely changed my stance but a somewhat). The agency cannot get anywhere with the federal government, they are just hopeless. Although I think its slightly better now that Philip Ruddock is not the minister, Vanstone is slightly better. I agree fully about the Kiwis....unless they happen to be good at the arts or sport because we like to steal the talented ones. Just ask Russell Crowe! hehe
No I think there's middle ground here. The Australian Government is well aware the the Indonesian Government does nothing to stop the illegal boat trade and the majority of our illegal boat people come via Indonesia. The whole racket is set up there. And it's huge. The Indonesians know that it goes on but they are not interested in cracking down on it. The Australian government should apply sanctions but it won't. There are plenty of things that the Australian government could do. Like get a better system in place, bring pressure on the Indonesians, shorten application times, remove children and families from detention centres, provide self sustaining work for TVH's and those are just the things I can think of off the top of my addled head! Surely the government with all those resources at it's disposal can come up with a much better plan than I have! Hmmm you seem determined to make me shudder in horror tonight! It's Saturday! I don't even want to think about Phil & Amanda!! :eek: Yeah, love the kiwis and the poms! See that seems to be the reason why we don't get so offended with them overstaying their visas! I don't think we should claim any famous kiwis as our own. We got enough talent.;) Don't need theirs!
No I think there's middle ground here. The Australian Government is well aware the the Indonesian Government does nothing to stop the illegal boat trade and the majority of our illegal boat people come via Indonesia. The whole racket is set up there. And it's huge. The Indonesians know that it goes on but they are not interested in cracking down on it. The Australian government should apply sanctions but it won't. There are plenty of things that the Australian government could do. Like get a better system in place, bring pressure on the Indonesians, shorten application times, remove children and families from detention centres, provide self sustaining work for TVH's and those are just the things I can think of off the top of my addled head! Surely the government with all those resources at it's disposal can come up with a much better plan than I have! Hmmm you seem determined to make me shudder in horror tonight! It's Saturday! I don't even want to think about Phil & Amanda!! :eek: Yeah, love the kiwis and the poms! See that seems to be the reason why we don't get so offended with them overstaying their visas! I don't think we should claim any famous kiwis as our own. We got enough talent.;) Don't need theirs!
Sanctions? Hmmmm that would be a curious course of action to take, to say the least. We should be working with the Indonesians to make sure it doesn't happen and take massive amounts of action if they refuse to help us. Women and children certainly should not be in detention centres, that is crazy. The poms and kiwis are just like us (although with funny accents LOL) so we don't really care if they overstay their visas. Don't you think Phil and Amanda would make such a cute couple?
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
Sanctions? Hmmmm that would be a curious course of action to take, to say the least. We should be working with the Indonesians to make sure it doesn't happen and take massive amounts of action if they refuse to help us. Women and children certainly should not be in detention centres, that is crazy. The poms and kiwis are just like us (although with funny accents LOL) so we don't really care if they overstay their visas. Don't you think Phil and Amanda would make such a cute couple?
AGREE!!! With everything you've said EXCEPT now I'm coughing and spluttering and I have an UGLY UGLY visual seared into my brain that can never be removed!!!!!!
Phil & Amanda......................a couple?..............ARGHGHHH!!!! :eek: :eek:
Can't we talk about something pleasant? I don't even mind starting an all new super pleasant feel the love and peace and calm thread!
just the thought of buffalo roaming around victoria is amusing to me.
*runs off to watch dances with wolves*
hey cate; my buffalo ARE from the dances with wolves herd. so you'll see some familiar faces.
i'm going to try the oppressed card. i'm white and in america that's a second rate citizen. i can't get a regular job because of affirmative action. can't get grants or scholorships for the same reason. most places in my state won't hire you if you don't speak spanish.
it may take a year but i'll be there.
:D:D:D:D LMAO!!!:D:D:D:D:D This is too funny! But scarily so! Not a fighter myself, but I say you wanna try it Johnny? I've faced off against pit bulls before and I'll do it again if I have to. Bring it on!!! At some point (and granted they're a bit slow at the moment) the population of this country will send that man off to the dog house where he belongs! I doubt very much if he ever did decide to try to sign us up as the 51st that Aussies would sit on their hands! It's the packaging it up nicely in little parcels and tracts here and there that seems to keep slipping past everyone while they sit glued to the cricket. Or are busy defending our rights against the IR laws? Johnny is a master at subtefuge!
Going back a bit but what u talkin about man?!! Everyone wants to be American!!!
Oh hang on sorry, i been reading too much shit from yanks :-)
It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.
I find this comment so offensive. It is really testing my self restraint not to simply explode right now. I can understand not approving illegal immigration and the finacial burden it imposes on our country, but to state that any immigrant from a 3rd world country is a burden on this country is repulsive. I will have you know that my parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country with less than nothing. Yes they received some government aid upon arriving but they worked their ass' off. They raised 5 children, paid for two to go to college. My father now runs his own construction company and there is not one person in my family who has not contributed to their community. I grew up around many immigrant families from 3rd world nations and all where hard working and simply trying to build a better life for their family than they would have had back in their native country. To see someone make such a ridiculous statement is a slap in their face and mine. I can only hope that you can open your eyes one day and not view all 3rd world immigrants like parasites.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I find this comment so offensive. It is really testing my self restraint not to simply explode right now. I can understand not approving illegal immigration and the finacial burden it imposes on our country, but to state that any immigrant from a 3rd world country is a burden on this country is repulsive. I will have you know that my parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country with less than nothing. Yes they received some government aid upon arriving but they worked their ass' off. They raised 5 children, paid for two to go to college. My father now runs his own construction company and there is not one person in my family who has not contributed to their community. I grew up around many immigrant families from 3rd world nations and all where hard working and simply trying to build a better life for their family than they would have had back in their native country. To see someone make such a ridiculous statement is a slap in their face and mine. I can only hope that you can open your eyes one day and not view all 3rd world immigrants like parasites.
amen....
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Going back a bit but what u talkin about man?!! Everyone wants to be American!!!
Oh hang on sorry, i been reading too much shit from yanks :-)
Yes, perfectly understandable Specifics there's a lot of it flying around!! But if you've been here in PJ land you would also know there are many good yanks!!! Complete US media saturation here is certainly having a detrimental effect on Australian culture! But I think that's because of Rupert! He doesn't know if he's arthur or martha and besides gotta keep the globabalization train on the track right? His livelihood depends on it! Good to know that you've still got your head screwed onto right though Aussie!!! :D
hey cate; my buffalo ARE from the dances with wolves herd. so you'll see some familiar faces.
i'm going to try the oppressed card. i'm white and in america that's a second rate citizen. i can't get a regular job because of affirmative action. can't get grants or scholorships for the same reason. most places in my state won't hire you if you don't speak spanish.
it may take a year but i'll be there.
Ssshhh..........come join us on the couch while the popcorn's still hot!!
And btw there's nothing second rate about you!;) So just quit your bitching and get over here already!!!
I find this comment so offensive. It is really testing my self restraint not to simply explode right now. I can understand not approving illegal immigration and the finacial burden it imposes on our country, but to state that any immigrant from a 3rd world country is a burden on this country is repulsive. I will have you know that my parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country with less than nothing. Yes they received some government aid upon arriving but they worked their ass' off. They raised 5 children, paid for two to go to college. My father now runs his own construction company and there is not one person in my family who has not contributed to their community. I grew up around many immigrant families from 3rd world nations and all where hard working and simply trying to build a better life for their family than they would have had back in their native country. To see someone make such a ridiculous statement is a slap in their face and mine. I can only hope that you can open your eyes one day and not view all 3rd world immigrants like parasites.
Don't be mad mammasan. It's easy to misunderstand people in this forum. And even if you haven't misunderstood, not everybody feels that way anyway. I am third generation Australian and have had all my past culture erased and my future culture looks like its going off too. Many people around the world understand the sacrifices made by migrants and we take our hats off to you. Lucky I guess that I live in a very multicultural city. Ignorance is easy in the current climate. You know that is what this is, ignorance and fear. So just remember others understand.
AGREE!!! With everything you've said EXCEPT now I'm coughing and spluttering and I have an UGLY UGLY visual seared into my brain that can never be removed!!!!!!
Phil & Amanda......................a couple?..............ARGHGHHH!!!! :eek: :eek:
Can't we talk about something pleasant? I don't even mind starting an all new super pleasant feel the love and peace and calm thread!
Haha you think Amanda would wear the pants? :eek: haha sorry I'll stop now! lmao I don't actually have anything intelligent to add to this thread atm.....lol.
The wind is blowing cold
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
I find this comment so offensive. It is really testing my self restraint not to simply explode right now. I can understand not approving illegal immigration and the finacial burden it imposes on our country, but to state that any immigrant from a 3rd world country is a burden on this country is repulsive. I will have you know that my parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country with less than nothing. Yes they received some government aid upon arriving but they worked their ass' off. They raised 5 children, paid for two to go to college. My father now runs his own construction company and there is not one person in my family who has not contributed to their community. I grew up around many immigrant families from 3rd world nations and all where hard working and simply trying to build a better life for their family than they would have had back in their native country. To see someone make such a ridiculous statement is a slap in their face and mine. I can only hope that you can open your eyes one day and not view all 3rd world immigrants like parasites.
I am saying that third world immigrants need to be assimilated. There's too many coming in. We need to assimilate the ones we've got. Currently, they're not being assimilated and they have no idea what being an american is all about. We need to halt immigration for a period and assimilate these immigrants, then we can talk about letting anymore in.
I'm not saying that third world immigrants are impossible to assimilate either - I'm saying it's far more difficult to assimilate someone who has no idea what democracy is or what individual liberty entails. It's no surprise either - look at the immigrant population: higher crime and lack of education. Freedom requires education and civic responsibility. They don't understand it yet because we've failed to assimilate them.
Your family is obviously an exception, but I would probably refer that to the evils of communism. Cubans are an exception to the hispanic rule: they can come here legally because their country is communist. On a side note, not enough Cubans are coming to America. They vote Republican. I encourage every Cuban family to come to America and bolster Republican votes.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I am saying that third world immigrants need to be assimilated. There's too many coming in. We need to assimilate the ones we've got. Currently, they're not being assimilated and they have no idea what being an american is all about. We need to halt immigration for a period and assimilate these immigrants, then we can talk about letting anymore in.
I'm not saying that third world immigrants are impossible to assimilate either - I'm saying it's far more difficult to assimilate someone who has no idea what democracy is or what individual liberty entails. It's no surprise either - look at the immigrant population: higher crime and lack of education. Freedom requires education and civic responsibility. They don't understand it yet because we've failed to assimilate them.
Your family is obviously an exception, but I would probably refer that to the evils of communism. Cubans are an exception to the hispanic rule: they can come here legally because their country is communist. On a side note, not enough Cubans are coming to America. They vote Republican. I encourage every Cuban family to come to America and bolster Republican votes.
So Cuban are OK because they vote Republican. So is it only the hispanic immigrants you have a problem with or do you have a problem with all the other immigrants as well because from what I have seen you seem to reserve your dislike only for Hispanics.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
So Cuban are OK because they vote Republican. So is it only the hispanic immigrants you have a problem with or do you have a problem with all the other immigrants as well because from what I have seen you seem to reserve your dislike only for Hispanics.
All the third world immigrants have problems assimilating. It's nothing against them - it's the systems they come from. Hispanics are largely catholic like me, so it's not that I don't like them. It's that they can't assimilate when they come in such vast numbers and refuse to learn english. This is an "american" country and they need to become "american." I wouldn't move to Mexico and expect them to learn english and eat hot dogs and watch baseball. You have to assimilate into the nation you join.
Any third world immigrants who come from an oppressive regime will have trouble assimilating into our culture (with the exception of those from formerly communist countries). Unfortunately, hispanics come in the largest numbers so they are the most marginalized in our society.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Haha you think Amanda would wear the pants? :eek: haha sorry I'll stop now! lmao I don't actually have anything intelligent to add to this thread atm.....lol.
***Jeanie shaking her fist***
DAMN YOU ASL!!! Just when the scar was healing!!! :D:D:D:D Oh my poor brain.....................
All the third world immigrants have problems assimilating. It's nothing against them - it's the systems they come from. Hispanics are largely catholic like me, so it's not that I don't like them. It's that they can't assimilate when they come in such vast numbers and refuse to learn english. This is an "american" country and they need to become "american." I wouldn't move to Mexico and expect them to learn english and eat hot dogs and watch baseball. You have to assimilate into the nation you join.
Any third world immigrants who come from an oppressive regime will have trouble assimilating into our culture (with the exception of those from formerly communist countries). Unfortunately, hispanics come in the largest numbers so they are the most marginalized in our society.
Funny post. So they need to become American, from your post I gather that means speaking English (though the US doesn't have any official languages) and apparently eating hot dogs and watching baseball... and if they are republican it's also ok?
I don't want huddled masses...or poor or hungry. I want educated people who are willing to work and bust their ass and not steal my tax dollars.
I take it you are native American with what you have to say. Or were your ancestors able to understand what the Indians were saying about them at Plymouth and just handed it down to you to bitch about? If not, then take it with a grain of salt.
I take it you are native American with what you have to say. Or were your ancestors able to understand what the Indians were saying about them at Plymouth and just handed it down to you to bitch about? If not, then take it with a grain of salt.
Would you say Mexico and Canada are also nations of immigrants too?
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
I'm not the one saying to change the system and close the borders after I got here.
what an evasive answer. do you think people should have to go through legal channels to immigrate and wait in line with the other law abiding people wanting entry?
All the third world immigrants have problems assimilating. It's nothing against them - it's the systems they come from. Hispanics are largely catholic like me, so it's not that I don't like them. It's that they can't assimilate when they come in such vast numbers and refuse to learn english. This is an "american" country and they need to become "american." I wouldn't move to Mexico and expect them to learn english and eat hot dogs and watch baseball. You have to assimilate into the nation you join.
Any third world immigrants who come from an oppressive regime will have trouble assimilating into our culture (with the exception of those from formerly communist countries). Unfortunately, hispanics come in the largest numbers so they are the most marginalized in our society.
Many hispanics and other immigrants do assimulate into the American culture. It is a minority among immigrants that do not take the initiative to learn the language or adapt to our culture here. You are painting a false and extremely prejudice picture of 3rd world immigrants by assuming that they do have have the ability to understand or intigrate into our culture. Your comments still disgust me and it is unfortunate that hard working immigrants have to deal with individuals such as yourself when they come to this country. I can at least say that they, the majority of them, are striving to improve their neighborhoods and their country while you are an example of the ugly side of this country.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I've said some things about immigration that some on this board have been disgusted by. I would like to have further discussion of this issue. I've said that immigration should be lessened because the baggage that third world immigrants are bringing with them is detrimental to our economy and government.
It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.
The vast majority of immigrants from third world countries (especially south america) are at or around the poverty line. They come to America with little if any education and immediately begin receiving various government services. 40 percent of all illegal immigrants are working for cash and not paying taxes.
They also tend toward crime more than real americans: 75 percent of the people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.
They're hard workers? In Los Angeles (where many illegal aliens live), less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare. How the hell are they on welfare when they don't pay taxes and are not citizens? We let them. Maybe if we kicked them off it, they'd tell all their friends not to come.
What happens to a social welfare system that allows massive immigration from third world countries whose people are poor and uneducated? That social welfare system collapses. Our system cannot handle this burden. It was one thing in the early 1900s when our system wasn't as full of welfare and entitlements as it is now.
You need to increase the number of rich people paying taxes while you increase immigration from poor countries. In 1990, hispanics accounted for 9 percent of the population. Today, they account for 14.4 percent. This is all from immigration folks.
I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.
This country is going down the tubes and the Republicans and Democrats are pulling us down.
you are combining two major problems/issues into one...which makes it difficult to address each issue properly...
Problem A) Immigration...as someone has mentioned, it's basically being used for subsidized slavery...rather than putting illegals on plantations, they are tossed a couple of bucks for basic living costs...
Problem Welfare/Entitlement programs...I do think that welfare and social safety nets are what makes this country great, i.e., taking care of those who can't take care of themselves...those same programs are overly used and abused...
perhaps if the Welfare System were overhauled, with a much better system of checks and balances put in place, the issue of Illegals abusing the system would not be an issue...also, many "legals" abuse the current welfare system...do you have an issue with them....?
and someone mentioned corporate welfare....it's interesting how that system seems fly under the radar...I guess it's ok to give corporations millions of our tax dollars, but the 39-year-old women with MS needs to pull herself up by her bootstraps and make due for herself....
Ssshhh..........come join us on the couch while the popcorn's still hot!!
And btw there's nothing second rate about you!;) So just quit your bitching and get over here already!!!
i'm not bitchin, hon. if i were bitchin i'd tell you how the us government requires public entities and employers to be predudice against whites by law. i'd tell you about my daughter who was top in her class but the only student who didn't receive a grant because she was not of black or hispanic decent. if i wanted to bitch; i'd tell several stories. but bitching doesn't do any good. the government has only provided a breeding ground for hatred.
so slide over a bit and we'll watch the bloody yanks self destruct together.
what an evasive answer. do you think people should have to go through legal channels to immigrate and wait in line with the other law abiding people wanting entry?
You did read post number 1? They bitched about legal people coming over and being uneducated, yadda, yadda, yadda. I am sure they will have a gun and be border sitting if they had the chance. They probably would be going to Ellis Island like I suggested too.
And my answer that you quoted was to evenkat.
As for standing in line with the rest of them. Start a thread about people who live in your fab country and don't mind paying the people under the table to use their working skills. And turn the blind eye as to how those people get into the country. As long as their is exploiters there should be no bitching. Maybe send the exploiters back to where they came from too? Super idea. Bet they won't think too much of having to go to wherever their ancestors came from. You agree with that?
Comments
Yeah you do have good points I will give you that. Although I'm not sure its the most desperate people who are trying to access Australia illegally. If they can pay these vile business people obscene amounts of money are they really in such hardship? Why can't they move via the proper channels if they have the financial ability to do so? And if they are coming from Islamic countries (where most of them are coming from of late) why do they bypass countries such as Indonesia and try to get into Australia? Are you 100% sure they are not simply wanting a better life, rather than be so desperate as to get somewhere safe? It is a complicated issue and I disagree with the federal government on the points we've already discussed eg:TPV holders. I did volunteer work with an asylum seeker agency for uni and that really opened my eyes. I don't think its a black and white issue......
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
No I agree it's not black and white. Course I'm not 100% sure but I do think some people sell everything they own to come here and they risk alot just trying to get a place on the boats. And I think that they can't go through "proper channels" because they are not in a situation where that is an option for them. Look at those poor buggers that came from West Papua. If they'd tried through the proper channels they would have been found and executed by the Indonesian government. No two ways about it. Look there are definately people that are here illegally that should be found and returned (mostly bloody Kiwis & Poms;)) but we cannot as a nation of fair minded and kind people allow those boat journeys to continue and to perpertrate the human rights violations that we are in the name of our current "immigration" policies. And our government should be able to enact a fair system to ensure that all bases are covered.
So how was the volunteering? Interesting?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
But how does Australia stop the boat journeys? Either we have a completely hardline approach to it and try to stop demand (which is what we are trying to do somewhat atm) or we basically let anyone who wishes to come here do so. I think either way is not on, there has to be a middle ground somewhere. You are right about the West Papuans, the Indonesian goverment has a lot to answer for. I think if someone is a real refugee then they should be quickly settled into the country. However if they are proven not to be, they should be quickly returned, and don't allow people to appeal multiple times which takes years at times and cost a heck of money. The volunteering was quite interesting, it opened my eyes. My stance on this issue was more right-wing than after I finished (not that I've completely changed my stance but a somewhat). The agency cannot get anywhere with the federal government, they are just hopeless. Although I think its slightly better now that Philip Ruddock is not the minister, Vanstone is slightly better. I agree fully about the Kiwis....unless they happen to be good at the arts or sport because we like to steal the talented ones. Just ask Russell Crowe! hehe
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Sanctions? Hmmmm that would be a curious course of action to take, to say the least. We should be working with the Indonesians to make sure it doesn't happen and take massive amounts of action if they refuse to help us. Women and children certainly should not be in detention centres, that is crazy. The poms and kiwis are just like us (although with funny accents LOL) so we don't really care if they overstay their visas. Don't you think Phil and Amanda would make such a cute couple?
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
AGREE!!! With everything you've said EXCEPT now I'm coughing and spluttering and I have an UGLY UGLY visual seared into my brain that can never be removed!!!!!!
Phil & Amanda......................a couple?..............ARGHGHHH!!!! :eek: :eek:
Can't we talk about something pleasant? I don't even mind starting an all new super pleasant feel the love and peace and calm thread!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
hey cate; my buffalo ARE from the dances with wolves herd. so you'll see some familiar faces.
i'm going to try the oppressed card. i'm white and in america that's a second rate citizen. i can't get a regular job because of affirmative action. can't get grants or scholorships for the same reason. most places in my state won't hire you if you don't speak spanish.
it may take a year but i'll be there.
Going back a bit but what u talkin about man?!! Everyone wants to be American!!!
Oh hang on sorry, i been reading too much shit from yanks :-)
Mexico are gonna fight al-quaeda?!
or are they gonna get there first???
I find this comment so offensive. It is really testing my self restraint not to simply explode right now. I can understand not approving illegal immigration and the finacial burden it imposes on our country, but to state that any immigrant from a 3rd world country is a burden on this country is repulsive. I will have you know that my parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country with less than nothing. Yes they received some government aid upon arriving but they worked their ass' off. They raised 5 children, paid for two to go to college. My father now runs his own construction company and there is not one person in my family who has not contributed to their community. I grew up around many immigrant families from 3rd world nations and all where hard working and simply trying to build a better life for their family than they would have had back in their native country. To see someone make such a ridiculous statement is a slap in their face and mine. I can only hope that you can open your eyes one day and not view all 3rd world immigrants like parasites.
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Yes, perfectly understandable Specifics there's a lot of it flying around!! But if you've been here in PJ land you would also know there are many good yanks!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Ssshhh..........come join us on the couch while the popcorn's still hot!!
And btw there's nothing second rate about you!;) So just quit your bitching and get over here already!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Don't be mad mammasan. It's easy to misunderstand people in this forum. And even if you haven't misunderstood, not everybody feels that way anyway. I am third generation Australian and have had all my past culture erased and my future culture looks like its going off too. Many people around the world understand the sacrifices made by migrants and we take our hats off to you. Lucky I guess that I live in a very multicultural city. Ignorance is easy in the current climate. You know that is what this is, ignorance and fear. So just remember others understand.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Haha you think Amanda would wear the pants? :eek: haha sorry I'll stop now! lmao I don't actually have anything intelligent to add to this thread atm.....lol.
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
I am saying that third world immigrants need to be assimilated. There's too many coming in. We need to assimilate the ones we've got. Currently, they're not being assimilated and they have no idea what being an american is all about. We need to halt immigration for a period and assimilate these immigrants, then we can talk about letting anymore in.
I'm not saying that third world immigrants are impossible to assimilate either - I'm saying it's far more difficult to assimilate someone who has no idea what democracy is or what individual liberty entails. It's no surprise either - look at the immigrant population: higher crime and lack of education. Freedom requires education and civic responsibility. They don't understand it yet because we've failed to assimilate them.
Your family is obviously an exception, but I would probably refer that to the evils of communism. Cubans are an exception to the hispanic rule: they can come here legally because their country is communist. On a side note, not enough Cubans are coming to America. They vote Republican. I encourage every Cuban family to come to America and bolster Republican votes.
-Enoch Powell
So Cuban are OK because they vote Republican. So is it only the hispanic immigrants you have a problem with or do you have a problem with all the other immigrants as well because from what I have seen you seem to reserve your dislike only for Hispanics.
All the third world immigrants have problems assimilating. It's nothing against them - it's the systems they come from. Hispanics are largely catholic like me, so it's not that I don't like them. It's that they can't assimilate when they come in such vast numbers and refuse to learn english. This is an "american" country and they need to become "american." I wouldn't move to Mexico and expect them to learn english and eat hot dogs and watch baseball. You have to assimilate into the nation you join.
Any third world immigrants who come from an oppressive regime will have trouble assimilating into our culture (with the exception of those from formerly communist countries). Unfortunately, hispanics come in the largest numbers so they are the most marginalized in our society.
-Enoch Powell
***Jeanie shaking her fist***
DAMN YOU ASL!!! Just when the scar was healing!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
if someone was suffering maybe far away and poor and persecuted i might consider letting in them ,at least temporily
im frugel and i dont like arrogant foriegnors -that make me a zenophobe?
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
are you being serious?
-Enoch Powell
Funny post. So they need to become American, from your post I gather that means speaking English (though the US doesn't have any official languages) and apparently eating hot dogs and watching baseball... and if they are republican it's also ok?
naděje umírá poslední
I take it you are native American with what you have to say. Or were your ancestors able to understand what the Indians were saying about them at Plymouth and just handed it down to you to bitch about? If not, then take it with a grain of salt.
Would you say Mexico and Canada are also nations of immigrants too?
I'm not the one saying to change the system and close the borders after I got here.
what an evasive answer. do you think people should have to go through legal channels to immigrate and wait in line with the other law abiding people wanting entry?
Many hispanics and other immigrants do assimulate into the American culture. It is a minority among immigrants that do not take the initiative to learn the language or adapt to our culture here. You are painting a false and extremely prejudice picture of 3rd world immigrants by assuming that they do have have the ability to understand or intigrate into our culture. Your comments still disgust me and it is unfortunate that hard working immigrants have to deal with individuals such as yourself when they come to this country. I can at least say that they, the majority of them, are striving to improve their neighborhoods and their country while you are an example of the ugly side of this country.
you are combining two major problems/issues into one...which makes it difficult to address each issue properly...
Problem A) Immigration...as someone has mentioned, it's basically being used for subsidized slavery...rather than putting illegals on plantations, they are tossed a couple of bucks for basic living costs...
Problem
perhaps if the Welfare System were overhauled, with a much better system of checks and balances put in place, the issue of Illegals abusing the system would not be an issue...also, many "legals" abuse the current welfare system...do you have an issue with them....?
and someone mentioned corporate welfare....it's interesting how that system seems fly under the radar...I guess it's ok to give corporations millions of our tax dollars, but the 39-year-old women with MS needs to pull herself up by her bootstraps and make due for herself....
i'm not bitchin, hon. if i were bitchin i'd tell you how the us government requires public entities and employers to be predudice against whites by law. i'd tell you about my daughter who was top in her class but the only student who didn't receive a grant because she was not of black or hispanic decent. if i wanted to bitch; i'd tell several stories. but bitching doesn't do any good. the government has only provided a breeding ground for hatred.
so slide over a bit and we'll watch the bloody yanks self destruct together.
You did read post number 1? They bitched about legal people coming over and being uneducated, yadda, yadda, yadda. I am sure they will have a gun and be border sitting if they had the chance. They probably would be going to Ellis Island like I suggested too.
And my answer that you quoted was to evenkat.
As for standing in line with the rest of them. Start a thread about people who live in your fab country and don't mind paying the people under the table to use their working skills. And turn the blind eye as to how those people get into the country. As long as their is exploiters there should be no bitching. Maybe send the exploiters back to where they came from too? Super idea. Bet they won't think too much of having to go to wherever their ancestors came from. You agree with that?