Immigration

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Well we're still "The Lucky Country" despite all attempts to change it!;)
You'll probably love it! Welcome!:D

so long as you're white, you're welcome.
if you're from a war torn country you must prove your life is at risk or we will just ship you off to some island made of bird poop for 'processing'.

and hey jeanie what do you mean probably love it? what's not to love?

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

so long as you're white, you're welcome.
if you're from a war torn country you must prove your life is at risk or we will just ship you off to some island made of bird poop for 'processing'.

and hey jeanie what do you mean probably love it? what's not to love?

Well OBVIOUSLY I LOVE IT!!! But I'm still having to wait out the current government and hoping that we can recover from it with our "Lucky" status intact! And I guess I used probably because I know nothing bout Corporate Whore so I think she should love it but there's no accounting for taste!:)

And I'm sure she'll get "safe passage" she is an American after all!;) I mean ............sorry cate......LMAO now...........just the thought of some poor American ending up on Nauru!!! :D:D:D YEAH RIGHT!!! AS IF!!!!:D

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

ooo kevin costner's bare butt. hehehe

that's air popped popcorn, right?

Yeah nice they caught that on film at the right time! Not really wanting to see it now!:D:D:D:D AND OF COURSE IT'S AIR POPPED!!! Is there any other kind?;)

A Surprise Left

citizen_drew wrote:

America is the greatest country on the planet....depending on your definition of greatest. People will continue to migrate here regardless...And with damn good reason.

I believe the best we can do at this point is paddle with the rip current and embrace them as consumers and laborers...

Anyways I was doing some snowboarding yesterday at Snowbird, Utah and during my lunch break I was served a beer by this kiwi chick...I said hey are you one of the lucky ones who get to migrate back and fourth from southern and northern hemispheres to continually keep riding year round? because I know several who do...
She responded with a hell no...I'm staying here until they kick me out. She said she had been here two years. 18 months past her visa... My ex-roommate from new zealand did the same thing. If you ever absolutely wanted to make him by beer you could just whisper the words INS...and you were drinking all night on his dime. Although I never played that card unless I was really thirsty.

Just a couple cases in point that people want to be here and will break laws or climb walls to do so...I say take advantage of the current where possible...

I've never being to the U.S although I have visited New Zealand and I thought it was a great place to visit and live. If I was a kiwi I wouldn't be so desperate not to go back that I would risk being deported but she must be having a great time there in Utah.

A Surprise Left

The Australian immigration issue is a bit of a tough one. I don't agree at all with what the federal government is doing, shipping would-be immigrants to Nauru for offshore processing. They also deny Temp Protection Visa holders access to welfare or work rights, so they are completely dependent on charity. However there has to be some sort of system in place, and we can't accept anyone who wishes to come here. It is also highly dangerous to encourage illegal immigration as people do die often as Australia found out not too long ago.

Jeanie

A Surprise Left wrote:

........I don't agree at all with what the federal government is doing, shipping would-be immigrants to Nauru for offshore processing. They also deny Temp Protection Visa holders access to welfare or work rights, so they are completely dependent on charity. However there has to be some sort of system in place...........................

Sending anyone to Nauru is an absolute travesty and the government is dreaming if they think it's a permanant solution. Particularly considering that Nauru, along with so many pacific nations, are taking on water and going under. Wonder what Johhny will do then? They might even end up in dodgy little boats trying desperately to find land. Wonder where that'll be? As to the TPV holders not being able to work or access services, I find this inexcusable, particularly given the length of time it takes the bureaucrats to process their applications. I've always wondered, if we are screaming for people to do fruit picking and other jobs, why can't they organize for these kind of jobs to be done by people waiting to be processed? We really are a disgrace when it comes to this. And I find it a constant personal shame to me to call myself Aussie in this situation.

redrock

onelongsong wrote:

are we forgetting that entering this country is illegal and thus these illegals are CRIMINALS? so yes; lets put law abiding citizens above criminals.

That didn't answer my question really.....

A Surprise Left

Jeanie wrote:

Sending anyone to Nauru is an absolute travesty and the government is dreaming if they think it's a permanant solution. Particularly considering that Nauru, along with so many pacific nations, are taking on water and going under. Wonder what Johhny will do then? They might even end up in dodgy little boats trying desperately to find land. Wonder where that'll be? As to the TPV holders not being able to work or access services, I find this inexcusable, particularly given the length of time it takes the bueracrats to process their applications. I've always wondered, if we are screaming for people to do fruit picking and other jobs, why can't they organize for these kind of jobs to be done by people waiting to be processed? We really are a disgrace when it comes to this. And I find it a constant personal shame to me to call myself Aussie in this situation.

It is a farcial situation when Christmas Island is considering outside Australia's immigration zone and illegal immigrants are sent to New Zealand and Nauru for processing. As for TPV holders not being able to support themselves that is a disgrace. If they are given any sort of visa they should have some means of support. Perhaps not welfare but they should be allowed to work.

On the other side of the coin illegal immigration is not a trade that should be encouraged by the Australian government. I don't have figures but I'm sure many, many people die on leaky boats trying to get to countries like Australia every year. Australia simply can't let everyone who wants to live here come, particulary if they don't have papers. Our isolation protects our way of life, just look at England for example what happens when the movement of people is not policed properly.

Petro Georgiou from the federal government is someone who's stand I respect on the issue.

Collin

CorporateWhore wrote:

Mexico is brutal to illegal immigrants in their country. They want to maintain their ethnic composition.

"Brutal" does not mean getting shot and he said any other country, so it was a bullshit statement.

Jeanie

A Surprise Left wrote:

It is a farcial situation when Christmas Island is considering outside Australia's immigration zone and illegal immigrants are sent to New Zealand and Nauru for processing. As for TPV holders not being able to support themselves that is a disgrace. If they are given any sort of visa they should have some means of support. Perhaps not welfare but they should be allowed to work.

I agree with you. Wasn't Christmas Island recently re mapped as an exlusion zone motivated by the government wanting to stop the boats from getting onto "Australian soil"? It has only happended recently. Since Tampa, I think? As to TPV holders I agree. That's why I think that there are many jobs that are going for the begging here that would be suitable for TPV holders. They require no qualification and are simple to do. This would give people the opportunity to care for themselves and their families while they wait for their application to be approved or denied. We should also enable them to access health care and education. The government wouldn't have to pay for it if they worked out a tax system or payment system for those people working while they wait. It really is a simple concept and much more reasonable than the current system. And it would benefit the TPV's and Australia by providing the workers that we need.

A Surprise Left wrote:

On the other side of the coin illegal immigration is not a trade that should be encouraged by the Australian government. I don't have figures but I'm sure many, many people die on leaky boats trying to get to countries like Australia every year. Australia simply can't let everyone who wants to live here come, particulary if they don't have papers. Our isolation protects our way of life, just look at England for example what happens when the movement of people is not policed properly.

Petro Georgiou from the federal government is someone who's stand I respect on the issue.

Yeah, sort of agree with you here ASL. Except that if you are an asylum seeker who has had to flee your country due to persecution you would be desperate enough to pay anything and do anything to ensure the safety & survival of your family. "6 months in a leaky boat" can't be much fun, so how much worse for them if they stayed? Many of them sell everything and leave with only the clothes on their backs. And I'm sure that their "papers" are taken by pirates or other undesirables out for a quick buck or not even thought about in the furtid dash. The business of people trafficking is a very, very lucrative one and fraught with vile people hoping to benefit from desperation and human suffering. If the Australian government was really fair dinkum about stopping the boats they'd stop blaming the poor sods that get on them and take the fight to where it really belongs. With the Indonesian Government. But Johnny won't do that because he's gutless. It is not beyond our government to fix these problems and ensure the safety of our borders. They simply choose not to.

A Surprise Left

Jeanie wrote:

Yeah, sort of agree with you here ASL. Except that if you are an asylum seeker who has had to flee your country due to persecution you would be desperate enough to pay anything and do anything to ensure the safety & survival of your family. "6 months in a leaky boat" can't be much fun, so how much worse for them if they stayed? Many of them sell everything and leave with only the clothes on their backs. And I'm sure that their "papers" are taken by pirates or other undesirables out for a quick buck or not even thought about in the furtid dash. The business of people trafficking is a very, very lucrative one and fraught with vile people hoping to benefit from desperation and human suffering. If the Australian government was really fair dinkum about stopping the boats they'd stop blaming the poor sods that get on them and take the fight to where it really belongs. With the Indonesian Government. But Johnny won't do that because he's gutless. It is not beyond our government to fix these problems and ensure the safety of our borders. They simply choose not to.

Yeah you do have good points I will give you that. Although I'm not sure its the most desperate people who are trying to access Australia illegally. If they can pay these vile business people obscene amounts of money are they really in such hardship? Why can't they move via the proper channels if they have the financial ability to do so? And if they are coming from Islamic countries (where most of them are coming from of late) why do they bypass countries such as Indonesia and try to get into Australia? Are you 100% sure they are not simply wanting a better life, rather than be so desperate as to get somewhere safe? It is a complicated issue and I disagree with the federal government on the points we've already discussed eg:TPV holders. I did volunteer work with an asylum seeker agency for uni and that really opened my eyes. I don't think its a black and white issue......

Jeanie

A Surprise Left wrote:

Yeah you do have good points I will give you that. Although I'm not sure its the most desperate people who are trying to access Australia illegally. If they can pay these vile business people obscene amounts of money are they really in such hardship? Why can't they move via the proper channels if they have the financial ability to do so? And if they are coming from Islamic countries (where most of them are coming from of late) why do they bypass countries such as Indonesia and try to get into Australia? Are you 100% sure they are not simply wanting a better life, rather than be so desperate as to get somewhere safe? It is a complicated issue and I disagree with the federal government on the points we've already discussed eg:TPV holders. I did volunteer work with an asylum seeker agency for uni and that really opened my eyes. I don't think its a black and white issue......

No I agree it's not black and white. Course I'm not 100% sure but I do think some people sell everything they own to come here and they risk alot just trying to get a place on the boats. And I think that they can't go through "proper channels" because they are not in a situation where that is an option for them. Look at those poor buggers that came from West Papua. If they'd tried through the proper channels they would have been found and executed by the Indonesian government. No two ways about it. Look there are definately people that are here illegally that should be found and returned (mostly bloody Kiwis & Poms;)) but we cannot as a nation of fair minded and kind people allow those boat journeys to continue and to perpertrate the human rights violations that we are in the name of our current "immigration" policies. And our government should be able to enact a fair system to ensure that all bases are covered.
So how was the volunteering? Interesting?

A Surprise Left

Jeanie wrote:

No I agree it's not black and white. Course I'm not 100% sure but I do think some people sell everything they own to come here and they risk alot just trying to get a place on the boats. And I think that they can't go through "proper channels" because they are not in a situation where that is an option for them. Look at those poor buggers that came from West Papua. If they'd tried through the proper channels they would have been found and executed by the Indonesian government. No two ways about it. Look there are definately people that are here illegally that should be found and returned (mostly bloody Kiwis ) but we cannot as a nation of fair minded and kind people allow those boat journeys to continue and to perpertrate the human rights violations that we are in the name of our current "immigration" policies.
So how was the volunteering? Interesting?

But how does Australia stop the boat journeys? Either we have a completely hardline approach to it and try to stop demand (which is what we are trying to do somewhat atm) or we basically let anyone who wishes to come here do so. I think either way is not on, there has to be a middle ground somewhere. You are right about the West Papuans, the Indonesian goverment has a lot to answer for. I think if someone is a real refugee then they should be quickly settled into the country. However if they are proven not to be, they should be quickly returned, and don't allow people to appeal multiple times which takes years at times and cost a heck of money. The volunteering was quite interesting, it opened my eyes. My stance on this issue was more right-wing than after I finished (not that I've completely changed my stance but a somewhat). The agency cannot get anywhere with the federal government, they are just hopeless. Although I think its slightly better now that Philip Ruddock is not the minister, Vanstone is slightly better. I agree fully about the Kiwis....unless they happen to be good at the arts or sport because we like to steal the talented ones. Just ask Russell Crowe! hehe

Jeanie

A Surprise Left wrote:

But how does Australia stop the boat journeys? Either we have a completely hardline approach to it and try to stop demand (which is what we are trying to do somewhat atm) or we basically let anyone who wishes to come here do so. I think either way is not on, there has to be a middle ground somewhere. You are right about the West Papuans, the Indonesian goverment has a lot to answer for. I think if someone is a real refugee then they should be quickly settled into the country. However if they are proven not to be, they should be quickly returned, and don't allow people to appeal multiple times which takes years at times and cost a heck of money. The volunteering was quite interesting, it opened my eyes. My stance on this issue was more right-wing than after I finished (not that I've completely changed my stance but a somewhat). The agency cannot get anywhere with the federal government, they are just hopeless. Although I think its slightly better now that Philip Ruddock is not the minister, Vanstone is slightly better. I agree fully about the Kiwis....unless they happen to be good at the arts or sport because we like to steal the talented ones. Just ask Russell Crowe! hehe

No I think there's middle ground here. The Australian Government is well aware the the Indonesian Government does nothing to stop the illegal boat trade and the majority of our illegal boat people come via Indonesia. The whole racket is set up there. And it's huge. The Indonesians know that it goes on but they are not interested in cracking down on it. The Australian government should apply sanctions but it won't. There are plenty of things that the Australian government could do. Like get a better system in place, bring pressure on the Indonesians, shorten application times, remove children and families from detention centres, provide self sustaining work for TVH's and those are just the things I can think of off the top of my addled head! Surely the government with all those resources at it's disposal can come up with a much better plan than I have! Hmmm you seem determined to make me shudder in horror tonight! It's Saturday! I don't even want to think about Phil & Amanda!! :eek: Yeah, love the kiwis and the poms! See that seems to be the reason why we don't get so offended with them overstaying their visas! I don't think we should claim any famous kiwis as our own. We got enough talent.;) Don't need theirs!

A Surprise Left

Jeanie wrote:

No I think there's middle ground here. The Australian Government is well aware the the Indonesian Government does nothing to stop the illegal boat trade and the majority of our illegal boat people come via Indonesia. The whole racket is set up there. And it's huge. The Indonesians know that it goes on but they are not interested in cracking down on it. The Australian government should apply sanctions but it won't. There are plenty of things that the Australian government could do. Like get a better system in place, bring pressure on the Indonesians, shorten application times, remove children and families from detention centres, provide self sustaining work for TVH's and those are just the things I can think of off the top of my addled head! Surely the government with all those resources at it's disposal can come up with a much better plan than I have! Hmmm you seem determined to make me shudder in horror tonight! It's Saturday! I don't even want to think about Phil & Amanda!! :eek: Yeah, love the kiwis and the poms! See that seems to be the reason why we don't get so offended with them overstaying their visas! I don't think we should claim any famous kiwis as our own. We got enough talent.;) Don't need theirs!

Sanctions? Hmmmm that would be a curious course of action to take, to say the least. We should be working with the Indonesians to make sure it doesn't happen and take massive amounts of action if they refuse to help us. Women and children certainly should not be in detention centres, that is crazy. The poms and kiwis are just like us (although with funny accents LOL) so we don't really care if they overstay their visas. Don't you think Phil and Amanda would make such a cute couple?

Jeanie

A Surprise Left wrote:

Sanctions? Hmmmm that would be a curious course of action to take, to say the least. We should be working with the Indonesians to make sure it doesn't happen and take massive amounts of action if they refuse to help us. Women and children certainly should not be in detention centres, that is crazy. The poms and kiwis are just like us (although with funny accents LOL) so we don't really care if they overstay their visas. Don't you think Phil and Amanda would make such a cute couple?

AGREE!!! With everything you've said EXCEPT now I'm coughing and spluttering and I have an UGLY UGLY visual seared into my brain that can never be removed!!!!!!
Phil & Amanda......................a couple?..............ARGHGHHH!!!! :eek: :eek:


Can't we talk about something pleasant? I don't even mind starting an all new super pleasant feel the love and peace and calm thread!

onelongsong

catefrances wrote:

just the thought of buffalo roaming around victoria is amusing to me.



*runs off to watch dances with wolves*

hey cate; my buffalo ARE from the dances with wolves herd. so you'll see some familiar faces.
i'm going to try the oppressed card. i'm white and in america that's a second rate citizen. i can't get a regular job because of affirmative action. can't get grants or scholorships for the same reason. most places in my state won't hire you if you don't speak spanish.
it may take a year but i'll be there.

Specifics

Jeanie wrote:

:D:D:D:D LMAO!!!:D:D:D:D:D This is too funny! But scarily so! Not a fighter myself, but I say you wanna try it Johnny? I've faced off against pit bulls before and I'll do it again if I have to. Bring it on!!! At some point (and granted they're a bit slow at the moment) the population of this country will send that man off to the dog house where he belongs! I doubt very much if he ever did decide to try to sign us up as the 51st that Aussies would sit on their hands! It's the packaging it up nicely in little parcels and tracts here and there that seems to keep slipping past everyone while they sit glued to the cricket. Or are busy defending our rights against the IR laws? Johnny is a master at subtefuge!

Going back a bit but what u talkin about man?!! Everyone wants to be American!!!
Oh hang on sorry, i been reading too much shit from yanks :-)

Specifics

CorporateWhore wrote:

Nah, I'm thinking about moving to Australia when Mexico takes over the United States.

Seriously.

Mexico are gonna fight al-quaeda?!

or are they gonna get there first???

mammasan

CorporateWhore wrote:

It is my view that illegal immigration, as well as legal immigration from most third world countries, is hurting the United States immensely.

I find this comment so offensive. It is really testing my self restraint not to simply explode right now. I can understand not approving illegal immigration and the finacial burden it imposes on our country, but to state that any immigrant from a 3rd world country is a burden on this country is repulsive. I will have you know that my parents are Cuban immigrants who came to this country with less than nothing. Yes they received some government aid upon arriving but they worked their ass' off. They raised 5 children, paid for two to go to college. My father now runs his own construction company and there is not one person in my family who has not contributed to their community. I grew up around many immigrant families from 3rd world nations and all where hard working and simply trying to build a better life for their family than they would have had back in their native country. To see someone make such a ridiculous statement is a slap in their face and mine. I can only hope that you can open your eyes one day and not view all 3rd world immigrants like parasites.