i'm not bitchin, hon. if i were bitchin i'd tell you how the us government requires public entities and employers to be predudice against whites by law. i'd tell you about my daughter who was top in her class but the only student who didn't receive a grant because she was not of black or hispanic decent. if i wanted to bitch; i'd tell several stories. but bitching doesn't do any good. the government has only provided a breeding ground for hatred.
so slide over a bit and we'll watch the bloody yanks self destruct together.
I know you're not! I was just being cheeky! Hmmm.....didn't you get that about me yet? Thought I'd made it pretty clear! Have to try harder! Anyhow, guess I just wanted you to forget about these things that governments do for a little while because we live in an age of appalling government and policy and it's happening everywhere. Love to tell you that it's all wine and roses here in the lucky country but little Johnny has put paid to that! So guess all good people need to unite and take back the reins. And we could do that so much better if we are all together! So yeah, lets pick a spot and spectate!
You did read post number 1? They bitched about legal people coming over and being uneducated, yadda, yadda, yadda. I am sure they will have a gun and be border sitting if they had the chance. They probably would be going to Ellis Island like I suggested too.
And my answer that you quoted was to evenkat.
As for standing in line with the rest of them. Start a thread about people who live in your fab country and don't mind paying the people under the table to use their working skills. And turn the blind eye as to how those people get into the country. As long as their is exploiters there should be no bitching. Maybe send the exploiters back to where they came from too? Super idea. Bet they won't think too much of having to go to wherever their ancestors came from. You agree with that?
they say no man is a country but i; and the others around me are our own country. we protect our borders; we are the law on our own ranches; and government or world events really don't effect us other than global warming.
but the road here wasn't easy. i agree with a lot of what you say. i also see the hate bred by affirmative action. i see countries like mexico rich in oil and gold treat it's people worse than animals. i see third world countries refuse to educate their people dispite all the help the us tries to offer. when someone earning 25 bloody cents a day comes here and earns $5.00/hour you call it slavery. i greatly admire you for immigrating legally and i hope you prosper as my immigrant family did. but keep in mind that your job may be in danger when someone is willing to do it cheaper. this country worships the almighty dollar and if i'm willing to do your job for less; i will get your job.
that mate; is the bottom line.
they say no man is a country but i; and the others around me are our own country. we protect our borders; we are the law on our own ranches; and government or world events really don't effect us other than global warming.
but the road here wasn't easy. i agree with a lot of what you say. i also see the hate bred by affirmative action. i see countries like mexico rich in oil and gold treat it's people worse than animals. i see third world countries refuse to educate their people dispite all the help the us tries to offer. when someone earning 25 bloody cents a day comes here and earns $5.00/hour you call it slavery. i greatly admire you for immigrating legally and i hope you prosper as my immigrant family did. but keep in mind that your job may be in danger when someone is willing to do it cheaper. this country worships the almighty dollar and if i'm willing to do your job for less; i will get your job.
that mate; is the bottom line.
Of course people are going to take my job for cheaper wages. It makes the top dog that much more richer. When they get it though their heads that you can't take it with you. The world will be a much better place.
As somebody has said before..............It is a sad day when Mexicans are going back to Mexico for good paying American jobs. Just thought that had to be said after reading what you typed.
Of course people are going to take my job for cheaper wages. It makes the top dog that much more richer. When they get it though their heads that you can't take it with you. The world will be a much better place.
As somebody has said before..............It is a sad day when Mexicans are going back to Mexico for good paying American jobs. Just thought that had to be said after reading what you typed.
ah yes; nafta at work. but it makes you wonder; if they screwed up such a rich country; what will they do here?
I'm not being a xenophobe - I'm putting out the simple fact that we cannot afford to pay for all of these people's medical expenses, welfare needs, and education.
It's strange that you link the above to immigration.
Reject theft...certainly. Reject the right of people to live where they choose? I hope not.
so if you'd fancy living in france; you believe you should be able to walk in undocumented and do as you please?
That depends how loaded your question is. If you remove the "do as you please" part, yes. Otherwise, not necessarily.
Immigrants have no right to "do as they please" if that means committing violent crime and generally leaching off of others. In the context of the original post, however, I wonder why the immigrants are being blamed as opposed to those behind the services themselves that allow said immigrants (and others) to leach off of others.
That depends how loaded your question is. If you remove the "do as you please" part, yes. Otherwise, not necessarily.
Immigrants have no right to "do as they please" if that means committing violent crime and generally leaching off of others. In the context of the original post, however, I wonder why the immigrants are being blamed as opposed to those behind the services themselves that allow said immigrants (and others) to leach off of others.
exactly...when given a free lunch, should one say, "no, thanks, I'll pay for it"...
it's the system, not the people...fingers can be pointed at illegals, but it does not take away from the fact that social programs are basically free lunches with noone telling anybody to stop eating....
exactly...when given a free lunch, should one say, "no, thanks, I'll pay for it"...
Yes, actually. But the person giving out free lunches shouldn't be surprised when people take them.
it's the system, not the people...fingers can be pointed at illegals, but it does not take away from the fact that social programs are basically free lunches with noone telling anybody to stop eating....
Exactly. I fail to see how the immigrant leech is any better or worse than the domestic one.
That depends how loaded your question is. If you remove the "do as you please" part, yes. Otherwise, not necessarily.
Immigrants have no right to "do as they please" if that means committing violent crime and generally leaching off of others. In the context of the original post, however, I wonder why the immigrants are being blamed as opposed to those behind the services themselves that allow said immigrants (and others) to leach off of others.
then consider this. if one can move around the world freely as those move freely between states in the us; then we need a world government. if i can commit crimes; murder; etc in one state; there must be a [federal] government to track and prosecute me. imagine someone like ted bundy traveling the world killing at will; only to move to another region and be free. so who will lead the world government? the queen? bush? bin ladin?
exactly...when given a free lunch, should one say, "no, thanks, I'll pay for it"...
it's the system, not the people...fingers can be pointed at illegals, but it does not take away from the fact that social programs are basically free lunches with noone telling anybody to stop eating....
Not everybody holds this attitude. I absolutely must pay my own way wherever and whenever I can, which is mostly always. I can barely think of an occasion when I would allow someone else to pay for me. And I know I'm not the only person in the world with that attitude. Illegals, immigrants or nationals, most people are hard working, independant individuals who strive to pay their own way. The only time I could really see this being an issue is when they AREN'T ABLE to do that. And that can happen to anyone for a number of reasons. Maybe, even one day you. Is this really an issue? If you add it all up does it come out in favor of the underclasses and immigrants or is it really the corporates and big money earners that are snaffling the troth dry? And besides there's no such thing as a free lunch.
then consider this. if one can move around the world freely as those move freely between states in the us; then we need a world government. if i can commit crimes; murder; etc in one state; there must be a [federal] government to track and prosecute me. imagine someone like ted bundy traveling the world killing at will; only to move to another region and be free. so who will lead the world government? the queen? bush? bin ladin?
going a step further; let's say there's 1 million illegals in california. this means government and all services are overloaded. by 1 million people. there are not enough police because cencus says there 1 million less people. welfare is stressed; schools are stressed; dept of corrections are stressed; courts are stressed.
so what's the answer? double every hard working persons taxes to accomodate the influx?
and another thing.
with this willy nilly policy; can i go to canada for free medical attention when i get sick then return to the states when i'm well?
i'm not picking on you ffg; just trying to point out to others that it's just not a simple matter of letting someone live where they want.
Not everybody holds this attitude. I absolutely must pay my own way wherever and whenever I can, which is mostly always. I can barely think of an occasion when I would allow someone else to pay for me. And I know I'm not the only person in the world with that attitude. Illegals, immigrants or nationals, most people are hard working, independant individuals who strive to pay their own way. The only time I could really see this being an issue is when they AREN'T ABLE to do that. And that can happen to anyone for a number of reasons. Maybe, even one day you. Is this really an issue? If you add it all up does it come out in favor of the underclasses and immigrants or is it really the corporates and big money earners that are snaffling the troth dry? And besides there's no such thing as a free lunch.
I'm thinking you missed my point...which is the current Welfare/Entitlement System can be and is easily abused by both legals and illegals...
also, I'm a fan of having a social safety net, I think it's a very important part of our country...however, again, it's used and abused...
finally, I, in no way intented to imply or did I say that illegals or nationals or whatever you want to call them, are not hard working people...
and by the way, I've had a free lunch...and it was good...it's nice when a friend or co-worker picks up the tab...;)
then consider this. if one can move around the world freely as those move freely between states in the us; then we need a world government.
Why?
if i can commit crimes; murder; etc in one state; there must be a [federal] government to track and prosecute me.
That's a very bad use of the word "must". There is a federal government to do that, but that doesn't mean there "must" be. State goverments can also track an prosecute you.
imagine someone like ted bundy traveling the world killing at will; only to move to another region and be free.
Ok. I did imagine that. I also imagined him being eventually apprehended by local authorities somewhere. That was fun.
so who will lead the world government? the queen? bush? bin ladin?
No one.
Look, all of this crap is irrelevant to the issue of immigration itself. Should criminals should be tracked and punished? Yes. Should the innocent be grouped in with the criminals just because they share non-criminal characteristics with those criminals? No.
The fact remains that immigrants, by and large, come to America for a chance at a life that is not possible are available to them in their home nations. For their resolve and their efforts, they should be applauded. Those among them that commit crimes should be punished, just as those criminals among the citizenry should be punished. Those among them that wish only to be leeches should have that opportunity removed from them. But to extend the problems of crime and leeching to immigration itself is no different than extending it to other characteristics like race. If I proposed that all black people should be sent back to Africa just because they commit crimes at a higher rate than whites, would I be logical in doing so???
and another thing.
with this willy nilly policy; can i go to canada for free medical attention when i get sick then return to the states when i'm well?
If Canada is dumb enough to let you do that, sure.
i'm not picking on you ffg; just trying to point out to others that it's just not a simple matter of letting someone live where they want.
It is that simple. The idiotic systems of social welfare are what make it hard.
going a step further; let's say there's 1 million illegals in california. this means government and all services are overloaded. by 1 million people. there are not enough police because cencus says there 1 million less people. welfare is stressed; schools are stressed; dept of corrections are stressed; courts are stressed.
so what's the answer? double every hard working persons taxes to accomodate the influx?
No. The answer is to stop taxing anyone -- stop giving away services to all at the cost of a few. If you've built a system of freebies, why are you complaining when people ask you to give them something for nothing????
The very same logic you detail above can be extended to controlling birth rates among the poor, or forced gentrification in urban areas.
I take it you are native American with what you have to say. Or were your ancestors able to understand what the Indians were saying about them at Plymouth and just handed it down to you to bitch about? If not, then take it with a grain of salt.
Nah I'm a native american. I was born here. My forefathers came here and conquered the indians so I could become a native american.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I'm thinking you missed my point...which is the current Welfare/Entitlement System can be and is easily abused by both legals and illegals...
also, I'm a fan of having a social safety net, I think it's a very important part of our country...however, again, it's used and abused...
finally, I, in no way intented to imply or did I say that illegals or nationals or whatever you want to call them, are not hard working people...
and by the way, I've had a free lunch...and it was good...it's nice when a friend or co-worker picks up the tab...;)
Yeah, think I did inmytree. Sorry. Glad you clarified it for me! I think we mostly agree. Although, like I said "there's no such thing as a free lunch", so you get back to me when you have to pay up with the friend or co-worker! There's more than one way to pay for something! I'll be interested to know what it cost you! Especially from the co-worker!
No. The answer is to stop taxing anyone -- stop giving away services to all at the cost of a few. If you've built a system of freebies, why are you complaining when people ask you to give them something for nothing????
The very same logic you detail above can be extended to controlling birth rates among the poor, or forced gentrification in urban areas.
Essentially you're arguing in favor of anarchy.
No one would govern the world but everyone could move around freely?
Yeah...that would work great.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I'm arguing for self-sovereignty, the thing from which healthy governments extend.
No one would govern the world but everyone could move around freely?
Localities are and certainly should be free to govern themselves. No one should govern the world since governing the world would require a level of sovereignty impossible to achieve in such a diverse world.
What I gather from the posts I've received is that I'm a xenophobic bigot for wanting to keep this country's borders secure.
Third world immigrants want to come into this country in the tens of millions. They want jobs. They want education for their kids. They want healthcare. They welfare. They need textbooks for their kids, by the way. They also need food stamps, did I mention that? They might need contraception. Also, they might want unemployment benefits.
Did I mention all of these people will also be coming in the tens of millions?
We have a choice:
A. We can let them in and bankrupt our social program spending.
B. We can let them in and not let them partake of our social programs.
C. We can not let them in.
A is stupid because then we'll have a bankrupt social security program even sooner than it will already be bankrupt.
B is wrong because when they're dying in the street, someone needs to pay for their healthcare as a safety net.
C is the best option. We can't fucking afford all of these people.
Nevermind the fact that we're trying to maintain a culture that has brought about some of the greatest scientists, politicians, and businesspeople the world has ever seen. Let's focus on assimilating the current massive number of immigrants. Educate them and integrate them. Then we can think about drastically changing the demographic makeup of the United States.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
What I gather from the posts I've received is that I'm a xenophobic bigot for wanting to keep this country's borders secure.
Wanting to keep the country's borders secure does not make you xenophobic. Treating innocent foreigners as de facto threats to that security does.
Third world immigrants want to come into this country in the tens of millions. They want jobs. They want education for their kids. They want healthcare. They welfare. They need textbooks for their kids, by the way. They also need food stamps, did I mention that? They might need contraception. Also, they might want unemployment benefits.
Just because someone wants something doesn't give them a right to that something.
I really want to sleep with Alessandra Ambrosio -- which country can I immigrate to that gives me the right to do that?
B is wrong because when they're dying in the street, someone needs to pay for their healthcare as a safety net.
Why?
C is the best option. We can't fucking afford all of these people.
Ok -- I can't afford you either. Get out.
Nevermind the fact that we're trying to maintain a culture that has brought about some of the greatest scientists, politicians, and businesspeople the world has ever seen. Let's focus on assimilating the current massive number of immigrants. Educate them and integrate them. Then we can think about drastically changing the demographic makeup of the United States.
There's your xenophobic streak. These people can't prevent you from "maintaining a culture" until they start hunting you down in the street. Not too many immigrants are doing that.
There's your xenophobic streak. These people can't prevent you from "maintaining a culture" until they start hunting you down in the street. Not too many immigrants are doing that.
False. By not becoming americans, they are degrading our culture. They are not learning english and as a result, becoming second class citizens. They can't get high paying jobs if they don't speak english, don't get an education, and don't understand our way of life.
50 years from now, a minority of whites will have 99% of the high paying jobs while hispanics will be shining the shoes, cleaning the pools at the country clubs, and washing the cars. This is why we need to assimilate these people. This is also why we can't afford to let any more in right now.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
What I gather from the posts I've received is that I'm a xenophobic bigot for wanting to keep this country's borders secure.
Third world immigrants want to come into this country in the tens of millions. They want jobs. They want education for their kids. They want healthcare. They welfare. They need textbooks for their kids, by the way. They also need food stamps, did I mention that? They might need contraception. Also, they might want unemployment benefits.
Did I mention all of these people will also be coming in the tens of millions?
We have a choice:
A. We can let them in and bankrupt our social program spending.
B. We can let them in and not let them partake of our social programs.
C. We can not let them in.
A is stupid because then we'll have a bankrupt social security program even sooner than it will already be bankrupt.
B is wrong because when they're dying in the street, someone needs to pay for their healthcare as a safety net.
C is the best option. We can't fucking afford all of these people.
Nevermind the fact that we're trying to maintain a culture that has brought about some of the greatest scientists, politicians, and businesspeople the world has ever seen. Let's focus on assimilating the current massive number of immigrants. Educate them and integrate them. Then we can think about drastically changing the demographic makeup of the United States.
Your problem is that you fail to see that as each generation passes these immigrants are assimulating as you say. It's not going to happen over night. Within a generation the South American immigrants will be college graduates with well paying jobs. Home owners, consumers that will contribute to our economy. You seem to expect this assimulation to occur overnight. The first US born generation of my family had only 4 college graduates, my generation. The next generation, my kids, nieces, and nephews, already has 2 and one will be graduating next year. Rome wasn't built in a day. As far as the social programs are concerned, they are broken and it has nothing to do with immigration. Fix the system and you will see less abuse from immigrants and natives alike. To me, and this is purely opinion, your fear is that the cultural demographics of the US will dramatically change. At the rate we are curredntly experiencing, in a few decades definetly within our life times, hispanics will be the majority in the country. From your posts that seems to scare the shit out of you, unless they are Rupublican voting Cubans. The US is a land of opportunity where the son of a poor immigrant can rise to wealth and prosperity. If people are willing to work hard and contribute to the well being of this country why should they be deprived of this opportunity simply because they will not fully integrate into our culture. By simply being here they will integrate and their children will fully integrate and so forth. Third is crime. Crime is highest among the poor, immigrants tend to be among the poorest citizenry in this country. Should we deal with the criminals and allow the innocent ones to continue along their way or simply generalize and label all immigrants as criminals simply because they are poor. Remember at one time your ancestors probably came to this country with shit and where treated like shit. Instead of repeating the injustices done to them we should learn from our mistakes.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
False. By not becoming americans, they are degrading our culture. They are not learning english and as a result, becoming second class citizens. They can't get high paying jobs if they don't speak english, don't get an education, and don't understand our way of life.
50 years from now, a minority of whites will have 99% of the high paying jobs while hispanics will be shining the shoes, cleaning the pools at the country clubs, and washing the cars. This is why we need to assimilate these people. This is also why we can't afford to let any more in right now.
This makes no sense. They are trying to become Americans by coming here to work and to live. Is an "American" truly now defined by some kind of paperwork, or it by a universal desire for people to use their abilities to create a better life for themselves and their families???
America was founded on principles that lead to citizens falling into different "classes" based on their merits. Is it not someone's fundamental right here to be a second class citizen???
Despite your generalization, many immigrants do learn English. And those that don't -- so what? How does someone not speaking English "degrade your culture"? Do deaf people "degrade your culture" when they speak in sign??? Do mutes "degrade your culture" by not being able to speak English???
Your "need" to assimilate these people also seems unrelated to your justification. Does not someone need to wash cars, shine shoes, and clean pools? How does the completion of those tasks bar you from "assimilating" someone, or create the need to do so? Are white people who do those things not also "assimilated"???????
No. The answer is to stop taxing anyone -- stop giving away services to all at the cost of a few. If you've built a system of freebies, why are you complaining when people ask you to give them something for nothing????
The very same logic you detail above can be extended to controlling birth rates among the poor, or forced gentrification in urban areas.
i'm lost. how is this relevant to illegals sneeking over borders?
Your problem is that you fail to see that as each generation passes these immigrants are assimulating as you say. It's not going to happen over night. Within a generation the South American immigrants will be college graduates with well paying jobs. Home owners, consumers that will contribute to our economy. You seem to expect this assimulation to occur overnight. The first US born generation of my family had only 4 college graduates, my generation. The next generation, my kids, nieces, and nephews, already has 2 and one will be graduating next year. Rome wasn't built in a day. As far as the social programs are concerned, they are broken and it has nothing to do with immigration. Fix the system and you will see less abuse from immigrants and natives alike. To me, and this is purely opinion, your fear is that the cultural demographics of the US will dramatically change. At the rate we are curredntly experiencing, in a few decades definetly within our life times, hispanics will be the majority in the country. From your posts that seems to scare the shit out of you, unless they are Rupublican voting Cubans. The US is a land of opportunity where the son of a poor immigrant can rise to wealth and prosperity. If people are willing to work hard and contribute to the well being of this country why should they be deprived of this opportunity simply because they will not fully integrate into our culture. By simply being here they will integrate and their children will fully integrate and so forth. Third is crime. Crime is highest among the poor, immigrants tend to be among the poorest citizenry in this country. Should we deal with the criminals and allow the innocent ones to continue along their way or simply generalize and label all immigrants as criminals simply because they are poor. Remember at one time your ancestors probably came to this country with shit and where treated like shit. Instead of repeating the injustices done to them we should learn from our mistakes.
add the words THE LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FUTURE GENERATIONS and we won't lock horns. but then you're off the subject of illegal immigration. illegals can't go to college.
i'm lost. how is this relevant to illegals sneeking over borders?
It's relevant because that's the logic you're using to attack "illegals". We've instituted systems of freebies based on faux "human rights". So why would you complain when other humans accept the rights we've already said they're entitled to???
Remove the systems of freebies, and you remove the vast majority of the costs associated with immigration.
Comments
I know you're not!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
they say no man is a country but i; and the others around me are our own country. we protect our borders; we are the law on our own ranches; and government or world events really don't effect us other than global warming.
but the road here wasn't easy. i agree with a lot of what you say. i also see the hate bred by affirmative action. i see countries like mexico rich in oil and gold treat it's people worse than animals. i see third world countries refuse to educate their people dispite all the help the us tries to offer. when someone earning 25 bloody cents a day comes here and earns $5.00/hour you call it slavery. i greatly admire you for immigrating legally and i hope you prosper as my immigrant family did. but keep in mind that your job may be in danger when someone is willing to do it cheaper. this country worships the almighty dollar and if i'm willing to do your job for less; i will get your job.
that mate; is the bottom line.
Of course people are going to take my job for cheaper wages. It makes the top dog that much more richer. When they get it though their heads that you can't take it with you. The world will be a much better place.
As somebody has said before..............It is a sad day when Mexicans are going back to Mexico for good paying American jobs. Just thought that had to be said after reading what you typed.
ah yes; nafta at work. but it makes you wonder; if they screwed up such a rich country; what will they do here?
It's strange that you link the above to immigration.
Reject theft...certainly. Reject the right of people to live where they choose? I hope not.
so if you'd fancy living in france; you believe you should be able to walk in undocumented and do as you please?
That depends how loaded your question is. If you remove the "do as you please" part, yes. Otherwise, not necessarily.
Immigrants have no right to "do as they please" if that means committing violent crime and generally leaching off of others. In the context of the original post, however, I wonder why the immigrants are being blamed as opposed to those behind the services themselves that allow said immigrants (and others) to leach off of others.
exactly...when given a free lunch, should one say, "no, thanks, I'll pay for it"...
it's the system, not the people...fingers can be pointed at illegals, but it does not take away from the fact that social programs are basically free lunches with noone telling anybody to stop eating....
Yes, actually. But the person giving out free lunches shouldn't be surprised when people take them.
Exactly. I fail to see how the immigrant leech is any better or worse than the domestic one.
then consider this. if one can move around the world freely as those move freely between states in the us; then we need a world government. if i can commit crimes; murder; etc in one state; there must be a [federal] government to track and prosecute me. imagine someone like ted bundy traveling the world killing at will; only to move to another region and be free. so who will lead the world government? the queen? bush? bin ladin?
Not everybody holds this attitude. I absolutely must pay my own way wherever and whenever I can, which is mostly always. I can barely think of an occasion when I would allow someone else to pay for me. And I know I'm not the only person in the world with that attitude. Illegals, immigrants or nationals, most people are hard working, independant individuals who strive to pay their own way. The only time I could really see this being an issue is when they AREN'T ABLE to do that. And that can happen to anyone for a number of reasons. Maybe, even one day you. Is this really an issue? If you add it all up does it come out in favor of the underclasses and immigrants or is it really the corporates and big money earners that are snaffling the troth dry? And besides there's no such thing as a free lunch.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
going a step further; let's say there's 1 million illegals in california. this means government and all services are overloaded. by 1 million people. there are not enough police because cencus says there 1 million less people. welfare is stressed; schools are stressed; dept of corrections are stressed; courts are stressed.
so what's the answer? double every hard working persons taxes to accomodate the influx?
with this willy nilly policy; can i go to canada for free medical attention when i get sick then return to the states when i'm well?
i'm not picking on you ffg; just trying to point out to others that it's just not a simple matter of letting someone live where they want.
I'm thinking you missed my point...which is the current Welfare/Entitlement System can be and is easily abused by both legals and illegals...
also, I'm a fan of having a social safety net, I think it's a very important part of our country...however, again, it's used and abused...
finally, I, in no way intented to imply or did I say that illegals or nationals or whatever you want to call them, are not hard working people...
and by the way, I've had a free lunch...and it was good...it's nice when a friend or co-worker picks up the tab...;)
Why?
That's a very bad use of the word "must". There is a federal government to do that, but that doesn't mean there "must" be. State goverments can also track an prosecute you.
Ok. I did imagine that. I also imagined him being eventually apprehended by local authorities somewhere. That was fun.
No one.
Look, all of this crap is irrelevant to the issue of immigration itself. Should criminals should be tracked and punished? Yes. Should the innocent be grouped in with the criminals just because they share non-criminal characteristics with those criminals? No.
The fact remains that immigrants, by and large, come to America for a chance at a life that is not possible are available to them in their home nations. For their resolve and their efforts, they should be applauded. Those among them that commit crimes should be punished, just as those criminals among the citizenry should be punished. Those among them that wish only to be leeches should have that opportunity removed from them. But to extend the problems of crime and leeching to immigration itself is no different than extending it to other characteristics like race. If I proposed that all black people should be sent back to Africa just because they commit crimes at a higher rate than whites, would I be logical in doing so???
If Canada is dumb enough to let you do that, sure.
It is that simple. The idiotic systems of social welfare are what make it hard.
No. The answer is to stop taxing anyone -- stop giving away services to all at the cost of a few. If you've built a system of freebies, why are you complaining when people ask you to give them something for nothing????
The very same logic you detail above can be extended to controlling birth rates among the poor, or forced gentrification in urban areas.
Nah I'm a native american. I was born here. My forefathers came here and conquered the indians so I could become a native american.
-Enoch Powell
Yeah, think I did inmytree. Sorry. Glad you clarified it for me! I think we mostly agree. Although, like I said "there's no such thing as a free lunch", so you get back to me when you have to pay up with the friend or co-worker!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
No one would govern the world but everyone could move around freely?
Yeah...that would work great.
-Enoch Powell
This is the one thing I will agree with you on. That free lunch isn't free. It was stolen from somebody else.
I'm arguing for self-sovereignty, the thing from which healthy governments extend.
Localities are and certainly should be free to govern themselves. No one should govern the world since governing the world would require a level of sovereignty impossible to achieve in such a diverse world.
Yeah...it would.
Third world immigrants want to come into this country in the tens of millions. They want jobs. They want education for their kids. They want healthcare. They welfare. They need textbooks for their kids, by the way. They also need food stamps, did I mention that? They might need contraception. Also, they might want unemployment benefits.
Did I mention all of these people will also be coming in the tens of millions?
We have a choice:
A. We can let them in and bankrupt our social program spending.
B. We can let them in and not let them partake of our social programs.
C. We can not let them in.
A is stupid because then we'll have a bankrupt social security program even sooner than it will already be bankrupt.
B is wrong because when they're dying in the street, someone needs to pay for their healthcare as a safety net.
C is the best option. We can't fucking afford all of these people.
Nevermind the fact that we're trying to maintain a culture that has brought about some of the greatest scientists, politicians, and businesspeople the world has ever seen. Let's focus on assimilating the current massive number of immigrants. Educate them and integrate them. Then we can think about drastically changing the demographic makeup of the United States.
-Enoch Powell
Wanting to keep the country's borders secure does not make you xenophobic. Treating innocent foreigners as de facto threats to that security does.
Just because someone wants something doesn't give them a right to that something.
I really want to sleep with Alessandra Ambrosio -- which country can I immigrate to that gives me the right to do that?
Why?
Ok -- I can't afford you either. Get out.
There's your xenophobic streak. These people can't prevent you from "maintaining a culture" until they start hunting you down in the street. Not too many immigrants are doing that.
False. By not becoming americans, they are degrading our culture. They are not learning english and as a result, becoming second class citizens. They can't get high paying jobs if they don't speak english, don't get an education, and don't understand our way of life.
50 years from now, a minority of whites will have 99% of the high paying jobs while hispanics will be shining the shoes, cleaning the pools at the country clubs, and washing the cars. This is why we need to assimilate these people. This is also why we can't afford to let any more in right now.
-Enoch Powell
Your problem is that you fail to see that as each generation passes these immigrants are assimulating as you say. It's not going to happen over night. Within a generation the South American immigrants will be college graduates with well paying jobs. Home owners, consumers that will contribute to our economy. You seem to expect this assimulation to occur overnight. The first US born generation of my family had only 4 college graduates, my generation. The next generation, my kids, nieces, and nephews, already has 2 and one will be graduating next year. Rome wasn't built in a day. As far as the social programs are concerned, they are broken and it has nothing to do with immigration. Fix the system and you will see less abuse from immigrants and natives alike. To me, and this is purely opinion, your fear is that the cultural demographics of the US will dramatically change. At the rate we are curredntly experiencing, in a few decades definetly within our life times, hispanics will be the majority in the country. From your posts that seems to scare the shit out of you, unless they are Rupublican voting Cubans. The US is a land of opportunity where the son of a poor immigrant can rise to wealth and prosperity. If people are willing to work hard and contribute to the well being of this country why should they be deprived of this opportunity simply because they will not fully integrate into our culture. By simply being here they will integrate and their children will fully integrate and so forth. Third is crime. Crime is highest among the poor, immigrants tend to be among the poorest citizenry in this country. Should we deal with the criminals and allow the innocent ones to continue along their way or simply generalize and label all immigrants as criminals simply because they are poor. Remember at one time your ancestors probably came to this country with shit and where treated like shit. Instead of repeating the injustices done to them we should learn from our mistakes.
This makes no sense. They are trying to become Americans by coming here to work and to live. Is an "American" truly now defined by some kind of paperwork, or it by a universal desire for people to use their abilities to create a better life for themselves and their families???
America was founded on principles that lead to citizens falling into different "classes" based on their merits. Is it not someone's fundamental right here to be a second class citizen???
Despite your generalization, many immigrants do learn English. And those that don't -- so what? How does someone not speaking English "degrade your culture"? Do deaf people "degrade your culture" when they speak in sign??? Do mutes "degrade your culture" by not being able to speak English???
Your "need" to assimilate these people also seems unrelated to your justification. Does not someone need to wash cars, shine shoes, and clean pools? How does the completion of those tasks bar you from "assimilating" someone, or create the need to do so? Are white people who do those things not also "assimilated"???????
i'm lost. how is this relevant to illegals sneeking over borders?
add the words THE LEGAL IMMIGRANTS FUTURE GENERATIONS and we won't lock horns. but then you're off the subject of illegal immigration. illegals can't go to college.
It's relevant because that's the logic you're using to attack "illegals". We've instituted systems of freebies based on faux "human rights". So why would you complain when other humans accept the rights we've already said they're entitled to???
Remove the systems of freebies, and you remove the vast majority of the costs associated with immigration.