Of course its not just a word. :?
Yes there is a definite movement of those who are striving to protect traditional marriage.
Has nothing to do with not liking someone nor keeping anyone from equality under the law.
Your example is of one and yes there are many but there are many joining with the vote
only to protect the traditional meaning of marriage.
They support civil union equality but do not support changing the meaning
and definition of marriage. This is a new change in thinking,
why support has dropped for gay marriage since 2011.
Do you realize how crazy you sound?
There is no such movement. Maybe a few people who say things to make them feel good about their disdain and ignorance toward the gay population.
A 5 month trend is a joke "since 2011" in that it dropped a couple percentage points, likely within the margin of error. Look at support since 1996.... and the trend over the past 15 years, which is a heartbeat in time when dealing with the "Thousands of Years" this precious word of marriage has been around.
Still though you put it to a vote in the bible belt, calling it whatever you want and it will get denied. Soon though. The "movement" as you call it is going toward gay marriage. before long it will be a reality. Ignorance usually gets stamped out over time.
soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.
soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.
Godfather.
at least you stand up, and just come out with it and dont hide behind a bunch of nonsensical, contradictory posts
i am also for equal rights for all and am very fine with marriage remaining as it was intended to be between a man and a woman ...
why is it you cant admit what youve written? ive previously stated that we all know youre all for gay marriage. i am agreeing youve said this. we are on the same side with this. but what i am having the problem with, mainly cause you wont clarify it for me, is you personally stating whether or not you support gay marriage using that terminology. not only that but youve previously stated it should be given some glorious spanky new name.. basically anything BUT marrriage... which only gives creedence to what i believe to be the intent of your words. that you personally DO NOT support gays using the term marriage. and having read and re-read the above quote, which are your own words, ive finally figured it out. you dont believe it should be called marriage... and that youre okay with that. you can deny it all you like but your words speak volumes. you really should own your words pandora. it will set you free.
im done with this witness your honor.
I just said I am pro gay marriage using that term but mostly pro civil rights ...
I have also explained why but will again here.
I would be fine with marriage staying between a man and a womanIF it meant
the passing of equal legal rights for gay civil unions NOW .
Yes, as a solution, a new term for gay marriages would be progression and a resolution
in the current and upcoming situation. As we saw in NC more states are going to be passing amendments defining marriage, protecting it for decades in the future.
Many will indeed want to keep marriage a traditional word while gay civil unions
and their equality will not be an issue. That never was for many of these people.
This changes the current situation greatly. This something we are just learning and witnessing.
As I have mentioned numerous times my friends who have had lifetime partners
will not be around decades from now, the equal rights is what they need NOW.
I would like to see the current administration grant them that NOW.
This has been my stance throughout the thread and what surprises me is that many here did not even know of the movement that is growing stronger as we speak to protect the definition of marriage and keep its traditional meaning while removing the civil equality completely from the equation. This will encompass more supporters why giving civil rights NOW is necessary.
...
You also think I am not pro gay marriage wrong again! I am mostly pro gay rights though.
so then what right/s do you think gays shouldnt have?
what youve been saying all along is that gays should find another word instead of marriage. you seem to think this will facilitate them gaining marriage equality. the point you seem to be missing is that the suggestion of them finding a new word for marriage makes the word marriage the sole dominion of the straights, which in case you havent grasped it makes it exclusionary.. which is not what equaity is about. youve said yes gays should be allowed to marry BUT let them call it something else. this is not equality. youve expended a lot of energy telling us where the 'marriage preservers' stand but have failed to tell us exactly where you stand. i wanted a simple answer to a simple question and you have failed to deliver that answer. so here it is again..
do you support the use of the word marriage by gays? remember, its a yes or no question. no hiding behind your concern and wishes for your gay friends or what the 'marriage preservers' want.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
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i just need to say
soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.
Godfather.
oh godfather. im not fighting with pandora. im trying to get an answer from her that she seems incapable of giving. do you think id continue my line of posting if pandora had simply come out with a clear concise answer to my queries? she may think im picking on her or getting personal but thats not what im doing. im seeking answers... well actually only one answer and if she or anyone else could show me where shes provided that answer clearly then ill be more than happy to let it rest.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.
Godfather.
at least you stand up, and just come out with it and dont hide behind a bunch of nonsensical, contradictory posts
Agree Mayday
Godfather, having one 'ceremony' with one name (and rights) will certainly make it inclusive. It will not change people's mind if they don't agree with same sex marriage (or any type of same sex relationship) but at least, it does present some unity from a more human perspective, confirming were are 'one people', regardless of preferences.
there are many joining with the vote
only to protect the traditional meaning of marriage.
I still don't understand how allowing other people to marry affects one's personal experience with their own marriage. I'm utterly baffled and confused. I mean, seriously consider if the laws in your state were changed today and gay marriage was suddenly recognized, it wouldnt change your marriage one bit. Zero. (speaking generally, not directly at you Pandora).
The motivation for banning gay marriage is transparent, it might be some 'marriage preservers', but for the most part its people who are fearful of change combined with some who simply discriminate.
And MayDay is right, the overall trends are showing that gay marriage is gaining support.
Who coined this 'marriage preserver' thing? The people who are against same sex marriage, labeling/identifying themselves as a group/movement? Or was it the press? Politicians? A term 'invented' on this board? Just curious.
Who coined this 'marriage preserver' thing? The people who are against same sex marriage, labeling/identifying themselves as a group/movement? Or was it the press? Politicians? A term 'invented' on this board? Just curious.
I think it was made up here. I tried googling it and all that comes up are Divorce-related links and this thread.
I have heard a couple people say before (on other message boards) that they would never want it called marriage. They believe that "marriage" is a religious term.
But then if you cut down into it, they really prefer that the gay community to get no rights, civil unions, marriages, call it whatever.
soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.
Godfather.
I'm not fighting. I simply think asking the gay community to accept a conditional alternative will never happen, and I would think it was kinda offensive if I was in their shoes.
Why exactly do you oppose gay marriage? I know you've said you just dont understand it, but why oppose it if it doesnt affect you? Or does it?
soooo you all are fighting with pandi because you would like to think that using the word "marriage"in a gay union would make everybody equal ? well I disagree with all you gay "marriage supporters" and as you all have the right to express your opinions I have expressed mine as well,have a nice day.
Godfather.
I'm not fighting. I simply think asking the gay community to accept a conditional alternative will never happen, and I would think it was kinda offensive if I was in their shoes.
Why exactly do you oppose gay marriage? I know you've said you just dont understand it, but why oppose it if it doesnt affect you? Or does it?
I just oppose it because it's how I feel personally but that doesn't mean that I dislike or have any bad feeling towards gay people...it just boils down to my personal opinion it's something I would not vote yes or no on I just would not vote on the issue.
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
Why in your view should gay people not have the same rights as straight people? What makes them second class citizens in your opinion?
I guess it was kind of a written form of a double-take
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,947
It so much more interesting to have diverse friendships. Why are some people so afraid of differences? Why does anyone have a problem with someone being gay or lesbian? What's the big deal? What are people afraid of? I don't get it. If two people love each other and want to get married- why not? How does that hurt anyone? I just don't get it.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So, your main reason is tradition...You just don't want it to change, I assume. Do you think its fair to exclude a group of people from particular benefits?
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
I can respect a person who puts their stance down in black and white, even if I disagree with it. you did so here.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
thank you.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
yes we are dealing with hundreds of years of discrimination, and it is about time that in "the land of the free" that everyone has the same freedoms. period. to argue otherwise is just proves that there are indeed 2 americas. those that want equality for all and those that don't.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
I can respect a person who puts their stance down in black and white, even if I disagree with it. you did so here.
Yes, and the fact that he isnt actively willing to try to stand in the way if society decides to go in that direction.
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
by the way, i forgot to say that i respect what you said here. i used to be like that, i had opinions but if something was going a certain way i was not going to act to help it or stop it. because it did not impact me. ya know? somewhere along the way i changed.
i got on a rant and forgot the rest of my post....
sorry GF..
:oops:
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
by the way, i forgot to say that i respect what you said here. i used to be like that, i had opinions but if something was going a certain way i was not going to act to help it or stop it. because it did not impact me. ya know? somewhere along the way i changed.
i got on a rant and forgot the rest of my post....
sorry GF..
:oops:
so much easier to respect someones stance when they make it clear isnt it? even if one doesnt agree.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm not fighting. I simply think asking the gay community to accept a conditional alternative will never happen, and I would think it was kinda offensive if I was in their shoes.
It is offensive. Completely. And I also think the gay community will never accept a conditional alternative, nor should it be accepted.
PORTLAND - 18 JUL 98 // TAMPA - 12 AUG 00 // PORTLAND - 02 NOV 00 // SEATTLE - 05 NOV 00 // SEATTLE - 09 DEC 02 BERN, SWITZERLAND - 13 SEP 06 // PORTLAND - 26 SEP 09 // CHICAGO - 19 JUL 13 // PORTLAND - 29 NOV 13 CHICAGO - 20 AUG 16 // CHICAGO - 22 AUG 16 // PHOENIX - 09 MAY 22 // CHICAGO - 05 SEP 23 // CHICAGO - 07 SEP 23
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
by the way, i forgot to say that i respect what you said here. i used to be like that, i had opinions but if something was going a certain way i was not going to act to help it or stop it. because it did not impact me. ya know? somewhere along the way i changed.
i got on a rant and forgot the rest of my post....
sorry GF..
:oops:
no worries here bro, you always stick to your guns and that's more than cool to me.
So, your main reason is tradition...You just don't want it to change, I assume. Do you think its fair to exclude a group of people from particular benefits?
I diden't say that was my main reason I said it's my personal view/opinion, I think I said that tradition through out the world will not change over night and for those of you that support gay marriage it is one of your road blocks so to speak and Iam not restricting anybody from benifits or rights I only stated my opinion.
i don't see how you can legislate discrimination and inequality in the name of some ancient text.
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
Why in your view should gay people not have the same rights as straight people? What makes them second class citizens in your opinion?
I never said anybody was a 2nd class citizen nor did I say they don't deserve any rights.
Comments
Do you realize how crazy you sound?
There is no such movement. Maybe a few people who say things to make them feel good about their disdain and ignorance toward the gay population.
A 5 month trend is a joke "since 2011" in that it dropped a couple percentage points, likely within the margin of error. Look at support since 1996.... and the trend over the past 15 years, which is a heartbeat in time when dealing with the "Thousands of Years" this precious word of marriage has been around.
Still though you put it to a vote in the bible belt, calling it whatever you want and it will get denied. Soon though. The "movement" as you call it is going toward gay marriage. before long it will be a reality. Ignorance usually gets stamped out over time.
Godfather.
at least you stand up, and just come out with it and dont hide behind a bunch of nonsensical, contradictory posts
what you said pandora, and i quote:
so then what right/s do you think gays shouldnt have?
what youve been saying all along is that gays should find another word instead of marriage. you seem to think this will facilitate them gaining marriage equality. the point you seem to be missing is that the suggestion of them finding a new word for marriage makes the word marriage the sole dominion of the straights, which in case you havent grasped it makes it exclusionary.. which is not what equaity is about. youve said yes gays should be allowed to marry BUT let them call it something else. this is not equality. youve expended a lot of energy telling us where the 'marriage preservers' stand but have failed to tell us exactly where you stand. i wanted a simple answer to a simple question and you have failed to deliver that answer. so here it is again..
do you support the use of the word marriage by gays? remember, its a yes or no question. no hiding behind your concern and wishes for your gay friends or what the 'marriage preservers' want.
take a good look
this could be the day
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lie beside me
i just need to say
oh godfather. im not fighting with pandora. im trying to get an answer from her that she seems incapable of giving. do you think id continue my line of posting if pandora had simply come out with a clear concise answer to my queries? she may think im picking on her or getting personal but thats not what im doing. im seeking answers... well actually only one answer and if she or anyone else could show me where shes provided that answer clearly then ill be more than happy to let it rest.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Agree Mayday
Godfather, having one 'ceremony' with one name (and rights) will certainly make it inclusive. It will not change people's mind if they don't agree with same sex marriage (or any type of same sex relationship) but at least, it does present some unity from a more human perspective, confirming were are 'one people', regardless of preferences.
I still don't understand how allowing other people to marry affects one's personal experience with their own marriage. I'm utterly baffled and confused. I mean, seriously consider if the laws in your state were changed today and gay marriage was suddenly recognized, it wouldnt change your marriage one bit. Zero. (speaking generally, not directly at you Pandora).
The motivation for banning gay marriage is transparent, it might be some 'marriage preservers', but for the most part its people who are fearful of change combined with some who simply discriminate.
And MayDay is right, the overall trends are showing that gay marriage is gaining support.
Who coined this 'marriage preserver' thing? The people who are against same sex marriage, labeling/identifying themselves as a group/movement? Or was it the press? Politicians? A term 'invented' on this board? Just curious.
I think it was made up here. I tried googling it and all that comes up are Divorce-related links and this thread.
I have heard a couple people say before (on other message boards) that they would never want it called marriage. They believe that "marriage" is a religious term.
But then if you cut down into it, they really prefer that the gay community to get no rights, civil unions, marriages, call it whatever.
:fp:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm not fighting. I simply think asking the gay community to accept a conditional alternative will never happen, and I would think it was kinda offensive if I was in their shoes.
Why exactly do you oppose gay marriage? I know you've said you just dont understand it, but why oppose it if it doesnt affect you? Or does it?
it just does not make sense to me that this is still an issue in 2012...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I just oppose it because it's how I feel personally but that doesn't mean that I dislike or have any bad feeling towards gay people...it just boils down to my personal opinion it's something I would not vote yes or no on I just would not vote on the issue.
Godfather.
if so, thats interesting. Most people seem to have strong feelings and are entrenched on one side or another.
it may not make sense to a lot of people,I'm not picking sides here so bare with me here..
what you are dealing with is over 200 years of tridition just in the USA and thousands of years of triditional thinking (man/woman marriage) world wide so waiting for the whole world to change it's way of think in a few short years just ain't gonna happen man, me personally I hope that gay marriage never happens but if it does I won't be whinning about it or joining in on any rallys to stop it and wont change the way I feel about people..because that's what we all are people with different views and opinions and I don't believe that because ot that we need to attack each other phyically or verbaly.
Godfather.
read my reply to Gimmi bro.
Godfather.
Why in your view should gay people not have the same rights as straight people? What makes them second class citizens in your opinion?
Really? Could've fooled me:
So, your main reason is tradition...You just don't want it to change, I assume. Do you think its fair to exclude a group of people from particular benefits?
I can respect a person who puts their stance down in black and white, even if I disagree with it. you did so here.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
thank you.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yes, and the fact that he isnt actively willing to try to stand in the way if society decides to go in that direction.
i got on a rant and forgot the rest of my post....
sorry GF..
:oops:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
so much easier to respect someones stance when they make it clear isnt it? even if one doesnt agree.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It is offensive. Completely. And I also think the gay community will never accept a conditional alternative, nor should it be accepted.
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Godfather.
I diden't say that was my main reason I said it's my personal view/opinion, I think I said that tradition through out the world will not change over night and for those of you that support gay marriage it is one of your road blocks so to speak and Iam not restricting anybody from benifits or rights I only stated my opinion.
Godfather.
I never said anybody was a 2nd class citizen nor did I say they don't deserve any rights.
Godfather.