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Gay Marriage Ban
FiveB247x
Posts: 2,330
Yesterday we were supposed to thank the armed forces for their deeds to our nation. Today we should lower the flag to half-mass and wonder what has happened to our senses. When religious discrimination is legitimized, freedom, justice and liberty are cast aside.
"If the advocates of apartheid had their wits about them they would claim - for all I know truthfully - that allowing mixed races is against their religion. A good part of the opposition would respectfully tiptoe away. And it is no use claiming that this is an unfair parallel because apartheid had no rational justification. The whole point of ... Read Morereligious faith, its strength and chief glory, is that it does not depend on rational justification. The rest of us are expected to defend our prejudices. But ask a religious person to justify their faith and you infringe "religious liberty". - The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins pg. 22 & 23
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gay_marriage
"If the advocates of apartheid had their wits about them they would claim - for all I know truthfully - that allowing mixed races is against their religion. A good part of the opposition would respectfully tiptoe away. And it is no use claiming that this is an unfair parallel because apartheid had no rational justification. The whole point of ... Read Morereligious faith, its strength and chief glory, is that it does not depend on rational justification. The rest of us are expected to defend our prejudices. But ask a religious person to justify their faith and you infringe "religious liberty". - The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins pg. 22 & 23
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gay_marriage
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
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"Promising equal treatment to some is fundamentally different from promising equal treatment for all," said Moreno, who had been mentioned as a possible contender for the U.S. Supreme Court. "Promising treatment that is almost equal is fundamentally different from ensuring truly equal treatment."
well said.
sad to see in cali. there have been victories elsewhere, guess have to wait and see when the vast majority of the rest of the country does embrace true equality, my home state included.......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
this has nothing to do with the church. but does have everything to do with the government and laws(rights) given to married people. by people I mean a man and woman. if you are a man and a man or woman and a woman, you aren't allowed the same rights. the laws do not apply to "them"
should have no say in practically everything
makes me sick to be a californian....and we're supposed to be the "left coast"....not so much when iowa is more liberal than us
exactly.
marriage is a legal institution, and it may also be a religious institution....but in reality it should have nothing to do with the seperation of church and state b/c we are discussing legal marriages, not religious.....but i fear religion does play a big role here in denying rights to others.
i may be in the minority, but i "like"...for lack of a better term, the government being involved in marriage. it makes it 'easy' to legally declare my partner, my beneficiary, the person i want to speak on my behalf, etc, etc. it's a legal arrangement. obviously, it also is so much more than this to most of us.....but in the eyes of the law, that's what it's about....and i like that. i think the homosexual community would 'like' it too...thus why they fight for this same right. as down on marriage as many can and may be, there is a lot of convenience built into it.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
So fucked up! :(
First PJ Show: March 20, 1994 | Ann Arbor | Crisler Arena
you know what i meant
if it was so easy as just having a will, why would the homosexual community be fighting for this right? that is only one of many intrinsic 'benefits' to legal marriage. the government is already involved in marriage, i've not seen good reason for that to end, personally. only the government can offer legal rights to marrige, not a church or people on their own....so yea...it takes more than simply drwaing up a will to do so, and why would i want to have to pay for a bunch of legal documents to be drawn up, when i simply can get a marriage license for what, $25?...and it's all set. i think simply allowing homosexuals to marry is the last step in true equality/access to marriage.
btw - i know of many couples, heterosexual and not, who have gone thru the legal paperwork to protect their assets, their loved ones, etc......and it IS a lot of work, and nice amount of $$$ to spend, when if one got married....viola...it's done. marriage makes that 'easy'.........that's all.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
A great answer.
aha, so it was a trick question all along eh?
i just see many so *against* marriage...and i really don't get it. if one doesn't want to get married...cool........but to be 'against' it i truly don't understand. yes, getting out of a marriage can be difficult, and costly.....but i also think, why should it be easy? there are soooo many *benefit* to being married, benefits that one can easily acquire, simply by getting a marriage license, going to a courthouse, having your vows witnessed, and then done.....easy. it would take sooo much to get *all* those benefits without marriage, and even then don't know if you can get them all...or if you should. i know especially with healthcare, many do offer domestic partner insurance for same-sex couples....but it IS a lot of documentation. on the one hand, rightly so...b/c if one is offering this benefit, the paperwork, etc, if it changed regularly would be momumnetal work all on it's own. right there, with gay marriage...problem solved. now i know even within the heterosexual community there are those who want the 'rights of marriage' but without the marriage......and idk, just seems like having your cake and eating it too? how can you garner all the benefits, and none of the pitfalls if it does demise? even without marriage, if you own property together, or have children together...it can be quite nightmarish, i've seen it with a few friends. still can be nightmarish even with marriage, but at least there are laws, and recourse, etc. and as i said....just the overall intrinsic benefits, from day one of getting married...to me, from a legal standpoint, just make it so *worth it* to keep marriage and government relations together. and thus....yes....exactly why homosexuals rightly fight for the right to legal marriage.
*disclaimer - this is not to say one should not have a will, or a health care proxy, etc - b/c these things ARe important. just saying that, in essence so many legal rights are afforded simply by getting married....and sure, even withdeath and no will.....sure, can be contested, but property is usually deeemed to the survivor spouse if no will, etc.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
this is america....we have the right to be completely uninformed and ignorant....hell just read the moving train! :P
:evil:
I'm sorry, but no.
The Majority should NEVER be given the chance to vote away the rights of a minority. I mean.. they came for me first... are they coming for you next? Don't think it can't happen. Because now they have a legal precedence that they can force a vote to remove ANY rights at all. From anyone in the minority.
You think they chose us homos first by accident? 'Cause they didn't. This is just the beginning. They're not going to stop here.
And they didn't 'come for you' first.
Really?
Funny, because I don't see straight, white, Christian, heterosexual men being denied anything. In fact, I see them being handed a lot of it on a silver platter.
And in this case, they DID come for us first. It's been reported that the Mormons and Catholics started planning this 10 years ago. They chose to go after the rights of gay people first since it would be so easy to get people to vote against us.
I'm kinda surprised that the conspiracy people didn't know that.
I'm white, male, and straight. The government does many things with my money that I don't approve of, plus I'm one that believes in the Constitution. These last two administrations have been assaulting that every day.
So you are gay, big deal. I don't care. My point was that the government has too much control and it only seems to bother some people when they can't do what THEY want.
That would be up for debate. As a gay person I can't sponsor my husband into America as my spouse. I can't list him as "next of kin" and when one of us dies, the government gets 25% of everything that we've amassed over the 17 years that we've been together. There are over 1000 rights that we don't have that you do but "big deal," right?
I'm not totally up on my history but I don't think that's ever been something that any other group has had blocked from them.
But you pretty much sum up the major problem. It's all gotta be about you. It's all about your little problems. Look, I agree that taxes are misspent and I agree that there are big problems with government control. But that's not what we're talking about.
Since YOU are not gay, as soon as I stand up for myself I'm told to "cut the drama" or "big deal." You only want me to care about something if it matters to YOU. It doesn't effect you... so you don't care. You only care about something if it knocks on YOUR little front door. And when it does... I wonder who will be left to stand up for you.
I don't care that you are gay. Seriously you are taking that to the wrong path. My point was that there are people that only complain when they can't do their thing. And I have to point out that my family built their savings through hard work and now when my father passes I'll have to pay an inheritance tax. So that is more government being where they should not be. Just as they would take your money should you die.
I'm of firm belief that the government should not be limiting anyone that obeys the law and pay taxes on what they can or can not do. That is why I said that I don't care about you being gay. I don't think the government should have this say. We are all adults.
Some day the people are going to stand together against ALL politicians.
I never said you should care that I'm gay. I don't care that you don't care. I don't care about you personally at all. I care about my rights. Which I'm now told can be taken away if the majority wants it that way. And you seem to think that me standing up for myself is "drama." (you sure you're not gay? I've never heard a straight man use that term before.)
Yes, there are other groups that have also felt the tyranny of the majority. But they no longer do.
Furthermore, your lack of grasp of inheritance laws is typical. Yes.. you will pay an inheritance tax on what your father leaves you.. but not what your SPOUSE leaves you (kind of, it's a little more involved than that). I don't have that protection or over 1,000 other rights, protections and privileges. But apparently, since it doesn't effect you, it's just "big deal." You'd rather I focused on something that would help YOU out.
Like I said before, you only care if it effects you.
You know that if I was in a car accident and was comatose, my husband wouldn't be allowed into the hospital room to see me? Or make medical decisions for me? Nor would he be the one to say it's time to pull the plug? He wouldn't even be able to be my advocate and give my wishes about organ donation... to the government, he's just the guy who shares rent with me.
But you don't care about that because it doesn't effect you. You only want me to vote for an independent candidate and that's pretty much it.
And sorry... apparently if I don't stand up for my family.. nobody else is going to.
I can see the the majority of the people even here at the Pearl Jam Fan Forum are on my side even if they're not gay. It's just those "I hate all government" people who seem to think... I'm not sure... do you think anything?
its only a matter of time Jasun, before gay marriage is legal. but we been to make it happen. its rare rights are given by the state, they must be taken.