how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
the minute mittens calls obama a flip flopper he'll have to defend this
dunno, those born after 1985 maybe. old enough to have been exposed to mores that were not as rigid as people born before then. i was born in '75 and many people my age are still stuck in that way of thinking. the young seem to be more open minded and a ton less judgemental.
So let me get this straight...
Discriminating against gays = bad
Ageism = A OK!!!!!
I didnt take that so much as Ageism. First time Gimme brought it up, he was just asking a question. Many things can be a reflection of ones age. However, I think many of us here on the PJ message board represent a different demographic than the typical folks who are debating gay marriage in the USA. and I think if you took a random 1000 people born after 1985, and compared them to 1000 people born before 1950, you'd get very different results on their views of gay marriage. I'm not discriminating on age, just taking the socioeconomic factors and making an educated guess. But that's just a guess!
I guarantee there is a markable difference in people's gay views based on age.
As a 33 year old I have encountered gay people in schooling, socially, and at work. I can guarantee that my father didnt have 1/10th of the exposure at age 33. It wasnt as OK to be openly gay before. People werent exposed to it. For a lot of these people it is tough to acknowledge that being gay isnot a choice
This is not my experience at all, being in the 50 to 60 age group is a very accepting age
of all peoples. Now when you get to the elderly there could be more of an attitude of
not accepting but I personally know none.
I feel it is very individual, can not be generalized, so much has to do with how one is raised.
If your parents teach you to accept others for who they are you do and you do this a lifetime.
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
its not the right kind of freedom.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
its not the right kind of freedom.
so should we debate the definition of freedom while we are at it?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
its not the right kind of freedom.
so should we debate the definition of freedom while we are at it?
sure why not? fire the first shot and ill try to keep up. :P
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
I think it will be based on the marriage preservers stance.
I think they will be for equal rights, I hope, in civil gay unions the same rights as heteros share.
The same rights gays want minus the marriage issue. This would be getting the most support
on this issue across the board. It is the most common sense approach for this time and place
in history for a Republican.
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
I think it will be based on the marriage preservers stance.
I think they will be for equal rights, I hope, in civil gay unions the same rights as heteros share.
The same rights gays want minus the marriage issue. This would be getting the most support
on this issue across the board. It is the most common sense approach for this time and place
in history for a Republican.
but marriage is the issue.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how is romney going to run against obama on this issue??
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
the minute mittens calls obama a flip flopper he'll have to defend this
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
There is no such thing as equal but different! It's an oxymoron.
This.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I think it will be based on the marriage preservers stance.
I think they will be for equal rights, I hope, in civil gay unions the same rights as heteros share.
The same rights gays want minus the marriage issue. This would be getting the most support
on this issue across the board. It is the most common sense approach for this time and place
in history for a Republican.
but marriage is the issue.
Yes of course why the law was passed yesterday with more states lining up to stop it.
Clearly it would be a huge thing if the administration came out
in the form of an amendment and gave gay civil unions all equal rights to that of marriage
nationwide. Pretty awesome step towards change.
As gay people distinguish their sexuality as different, as a term defined as a group.
As heterosexuals, bisexuals, asexuals, little people, big people, caucasian, oriental, etc. I could go on for ever.... Labels. We have always put ourselves in 'groups', a belonging of some kind. These groups are all fundamentally the same - people. One word for one 'concept'. Just like marriage - one word for one concept (if we were to choose this word).
I think it will be based on the marriage preservers stance.
I think they will be for equal rights, I hope, in civil gay unions the same rights as heteros share.
The same rights gays want minus the marriage issue. This would be getting the most support
on this issue across the board. It is the most common sense approach for this time and place
in history for a Republican.
but marriage is the issue.
Yes of course why the law was passed yesterday with more states lining up to stop it.
Clearly it would be a huge thing if the administration came out
in the form of an amendment and gave gay civil unions all equal rights to that of marriage
nationwide. Pretty awesome step towards change.
Are you really that naive to think that people voting in NC and others against gay people are hoping to provide rights in civil unions or whatever you call them? you have got to be trolling at this point.
The fact is, a lot of people are still ignorant to the reality of gays. They think it is a choice. They would have trouble allowing their kids to attend a class tought by a gay man. They think that if they allow gays to get married, being gay will be alright and it will infect their town.... People will become flambouyant, drag queens will be seen on the street.... men in leather will be seen everywhere kissing and fornicating. Not everyone... but this is still a prevalent thought pattern in everywhere USA.... and it needs to be re-educated.
They think it's a choice and they think gay men want to recruit their kids. They also think every gay man is easily recognizable as some flamboyant boa wearing, half nude guy. My dad is one of these people so I've heard it all.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
Pandora: Bring on the fight for marriage. We prefer it to all this sneaking around.
I will say it again. Gay people want what everyone else has the chance to have. Marriage. End of sentence. We won't and we shouldn't settle for anything less. Separate but equal didn't work before, why would it work now? I can honestly say I'd rather have the fight take another ten years if it means marriage and not some other named thing. Marriage. How many times can I say it in this post?
They think it's a choice and they think gay men want to recruit their kids. They also think every gay man is easily recognizable as some flamboyant boa wearing, half nude guy. My dad is one of these people so I've heard it all.
yes. Its not a generalization of NC or the South. My dad is like that, my stepdad, and my father in law.
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
I'm not against (as one may have gathered) but I may be in the age group that might be seen as more 'traditional'. Let's just say when I was little I lived in Georgia for a bit (Columbus and Atlanta) and I remember a bus driver refusing to start the bus until my sister, my dad and I moved from the back seat of the bus (because that's were kids like to be) to the front because we didn't 'belong' there - it was for 'other' people (and at that time it was perfectly legal to discriminate). So you have an idea of my age!
that bus driver is a spineless jerk (blankety blank blank)
They think it's a choice and they think gay men want to recruit their kids. They also think every gay man is easily recognizable as some flamboyant boa wearing, half nude guy. My dad is one of these people so I've heard it all.
yes. Its not a generalization of NC or the South. My dad is like that, my stepdad, and my father in law.
Yep. It's everywhere. If you stand in line with bigots you may as well be a bigot even if you're reasoning is different.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
[ typical huh there is no age on any of this, that is judgmental in and of itself :fp:
there are both young and old who believe marriage should stay as is
but believe in equal rights
there are those opposed to gay unions period young and old
there are those who simply have no issue with either marriage or unions young and old
there are those who don't believe in marriage at all ! young and old!
and then there are those like me who don't give a shit what two adults do in their bedroom rather they are man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman. they are a couple. a loving couple at that. if they wanna get married, bob can marry steve and heather can marry jane...simple pimple. and with no special title, bells or whistles. they are flat out in love and they are a married couple
Are you really that naive to think that people voting in NC and others against gay people are hoping to provide rights in civil unions or whatever you call them? you have got to be trolling at this point.
Yes, I believe civil gay unions with equal rights is exactly the right road
for the preservers of marriage, it is the only road and believe this is becoming
clear to them.
And no I'm stating my opinion on how to get resolution very soon
to equal rights ...
not just bitching and saying others are bigots and hoping
they change in the next decade or two. I'm not much for complaining I prefer
to find ways to fix things.
i am just interested for the sake of discussion, what are the ages of the people on this forum who are debating against gay marriage?
I'm not against (as one may have gathered) but I may be in the age group that might be seen as more 'traditional'. Let's just say when I was little I lived in Georgia for a bit (Columbus and Atlanta) and I remember a bus driver refusing to start the bus until my sister, my dad and I moved from the back seat of the bus (because that's were kids like to be) to the front because we didn't 'belong' there - it was for 'other' people (and at that time it was perfectly legal to discriminate). So you have an idea of my age!
that bus driver is a spineless jerk (blankety blank blank)
Maybe Chad, but that's how it was in those days. I'm happy that my dad stood his ground (and most of the people on the bus too). Though my dad sometimes uses very un-PC language/terms (he's 80+), he does believe that ALL should have absolute equal rights. I'm not sure he would be have been very comfortable if my sister or I would have introduced him to our 'wife' but nevertheless he does believe that there should be no distinction when it comes to marriage (obviously outside the church). He said he and my mother combined fought in several wars for this kind of freedom and equality.
As already mentioned, it's more of a question of education, exposure, etc. than age but there are more chances one had a more 'restrictive' education and views on things when one's formative years were in the 30s, 40s or 50s than later decades.
Comments
how is he going to frame the issue?
one guy is for civil rights, while the big strong conservative is standing up for keeping gay people from having the same rights that us heteros have?
how can romney campaign on that?
funny how the republicans all talk about freedom and how it is being taken away or whatever, but it is them who are actually keeping gays from gaining the same freedom enjoyed by their straight counterparts. :fp:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
you forgot
:nono:
the minute mittens calls obama a flip flopper he'll have to defend this
http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profil ... _Marriage/
good luck willard!
I didnt take that so much as Ageism. First time Gimme brought it up, he was just asking a question. Many things can be a reflection of ones age. However, I think many of us here on the PJ message board represent a different demographic than the typical folks who are debating gay marriage in the USA. and I think if you took a random 1000 people born after 1985, and compared them to 1000 people born before 1950, you'd get very different results on their views of gay marriage. I'm not discriminating on age, just taking the socioeconomic factors and making an educated guess. But that's just a guess!
of all peoples. Now when you get to the elderly there could be more of an attitude of
not accepting but I personally know none.
I feel it is very individual, can not be generalized, so much has to do with how one is raised.
If your parents teach you to accept others for who they are you do and you do this a lifetime.
its not the right kind of freedom.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
sure why not? fire the first shot and ill try to keep up. :P
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think they will be for equal rights, I hope, in civil gay unions the same rights as heteros share.
The same rights gays want minus the marriage issue. This would be getting the most support
on this issue across the board. It is the most common sense approach for this time and place
in history for a Republican.
but marriage is the issue.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
There is no such thing as equal but different! It's an oxymoron.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
You can dress up the viewpoint all you want with all these contradictory words... but it is polishing a turd
Clearly it would be a huge thing if the administration came out
in the form of an amendment and gave gay civil unions all equal rights to that of marriage
nationwide. Pretty awesome step towards change.
thank you, redrock
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Are you really that naive to think that people voting in NC and others against gay people are hoping to provide rights in civil unions or whatever you call them? you have got to be trolling at this point.
The fact is, a lot of people are still ignorant to the reality of gays. They think it is a choice. They would have trouble allowing their kids to attend a class tought by a gay man. They think that if they allow gays to get married, being gay will be alright and it will infect their town.... People will become flambouyant, drag queens will be seen on the street.... men in leather will be seen everywhere kissing and fornicating. Not everyone... but this is still a prevalent thought pattern in everywhere USA.... and it needs to be re-educated.
"Hey, North Carolina, I'm about to have breakfast. But I should warn you, I'm gay, so that may invalidate your breakfast."
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
That's great.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
yes. Its not a generalization of NC or the South. My dad is like that, my stepdad, and my father in law.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yep. It's everywhere. If you stand in line with bigots you may as well be a bigot even if you're reasoning is different.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Yes, I believe civil gay unions with equal rights is exactly the right road
for the preservers of marriage, it is the only road and believe this is becoming
clear to them.
And no I'm stating my opinion on how to get resolution very soon
to equal rights ...
not just bitching and saying others are bigots and hoping
they change in the next decade or two. I'm not much for complaining I prefer
to find ways to fix things.
Maybe Chad, but that's how it was in those days. I'm happy that my dad stood his ground (and most of the people on the bus too). Though my dad sometimes uses very un-PC language/terms (he's 80+), he does believe that ALL should have absolute equal rights. I'm not sure he would be have been very comfortable if my sister or I would have introduced him to our 'wife' but nevertheless he does believe that there should be no distinction when it comes to marriage (obviously outside the church). He said he and my mother combined fought in several wars for this kind of freedom and equality.
As already mentioned, it's more of a question of education, exposure, etc. than age but there are more chances one had a more 'restrictive' education and views on things when one's formative years were in the 30s, 40s or 50s than later decades.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I wish I could say it so clearly!