***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    They peaked with no code,pure genius. And R6 with another bomb hell yeah,I can imagine the fixer watching it. Damn howard making me sound wrong damn it stop hitting hrs:)

    Just as good as this guy.

    baby3.jpg
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,492
    They peaked with no code,pure genius. And R6 with another bomb hell yeah,I can imagine the fixer watching it. Damn howard making me sound wrong damn it stop hitting hrs:)

    aside from the initial ten/vs years....pj's heyday was vitalogy -no code- yield. ah, the mid-late nineties.......and if anyone says different, I WILL PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. straight shot.

    GO PHILS.
    www.myspace.com
  • jamminpearlsjamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    They peaked with no code,pure genius. And R6 with another bomb hell yeah,I can imagine the fixer watching it. Damn howard making me sound wrong damn it stop hitting hrs:)

    Just as good as this guy.

    baby3.jpg
    I said that his 1st 5 seasons are probably the closiest in comparsion. Never did I say he was ruth. Not sure but I'd be suprised if there where more then a handful of players who had more hrs then howard to start a career.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    They peaked with no code,pure genius. And R6 with another bomb hell yeah,I can imagine the fixer watching it. Damn howard making me sound wrong damn it stop hitting hrs:)

    we agree with No Code. that album is so underrated. sabermetrics prove that

    As long as howard is wearing a phils jersey I will hope he does well.

    Funny that you didn't mention the pickoff throw that just went off of his glove, allowing a runner to get to second
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,492
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    They peaked with no code,pure genius. And R6 with another bomb hell yeah,I can imagine the fixer watching it. Damn howard making me sound wrong damn it stop hitting hrs:)

    Just as good as this guy.

    baby3.jpg
    I said that his 1st 5 seasons are probably the closiest in comparsion. Never did I say he was ruth. Not sure but I'd be suprised if there where more then a handful of players who had more hrs then howard to start a career.

    ruth, sosa, griffey and howard are the only players in mlb history to hit 45 hr's and have 135 rbis in 4 seasons in a row....he's also the fastest, in terms of games played, to reach 200 hr's in the history of the game.
    www.myspace.com
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    I said that his 1st 5 seasons are probably the closiest in comparsion. Never did I say he was ruth. Not sure but I'd be suprised if there where more then a handful of players who had more hrs then howard to start a career.

    In Ruth's first 5 seasons, he pitched over 1,000 innings to an ERA of just over 2.
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    I said that his 1st 5 seasons are probably the closiest in comparsion. Never did I say he was ruth. Not sure but I'd be suprised if there where more then a handful of players who had more hrs then howard to start a career.

    In Ruth's first 5 seasons, he pitched over 1,000 innings to an ERA of just over 2.

    babe ruth was the life of parties he didn't even attend. sharks have a week dedicated to him

    the ruth-howard comps are ridiculous
  • jamminpearlsjamminpearls Posts: 7,078
    The Fixer wrote:
    They peaked with no code,pure genius. And R6 with another bomb hell yeah,I can imagine the fixer watching it. Damn howard making me sound wrong damn it stop hitting hrs:)

    we agree with No Code. that album is so underrated. sabermetrics prove that

    As long as howard is wearing a phils jersey I will hope he does well.

    Funny that you didn't mention the pickoff throw that just went off of his glove, allowing a runner to get to second
    No code,yield,vitalogy,vs are there 4 best in that order imo. And I only heard the play I had a customer to deal with at that moment.
    Go Birds!!!!
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    The Fixer wrote:
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    I said that his 1st 5 seasons are probably the closiest in comparsion. Never did I say he was ruth. Not sure but I'd be suprised if there where more then a handful of players who had more hrs then howard to start a career.

    In Ruth's first 5 seasons, he pitched over 1,000 innings to an ERA of just over 2.

    babe ruth was the life of parties he didn't even attend. sharks have a week dedicated to him

    the ruth-howard comps are ridiculous

    Stay Thirsty My Friends.

    Anyone who tries to compare Ryan Howard to Babe Ruth loses every ounce of their credibility in any baseball conversation they ever have, period.
  • 8181 Posts: 58,276
    Ron Santo is excited today.
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Posts: 11,333
    Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

    No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

    Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
    WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
    Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,492
    Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

    No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

    Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

    i like the order. the vitalogy (punkish), no code (lil country, lil eastern tinged) to yield (just plain rockin') shows how diverse they are.......then binaural came out.

    BRING. BACK. JACK.
    www.myspace.com
  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

    No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

    Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

    good point about the song order

    howard just had the worst 3-1 swing I've ever seen in my life
  • Johnny AbruzzoJohnny Abruzzo Posts: 11,333
    The Fixer wrote:
    Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

    No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

    Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

    good point about the song order

    howard just had the worst 3-1 swing I've ever seen in my life

    I'm listening on radio, so didn't seen Blanton get squeezed or this bad swing. It's pathetic to lose 2 straight vs. the Cubs.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13;
    WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
    Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,492
    The Fixer wrote:
    Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

    No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

    Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

    good point about the song order

    howard just had the worst 3-1 swing I've ever seen in my life

    I'm listening on radio, so didn't seen Blanton get squeezed or this bad swing. It's pathetic to lose 2 straight vs. the Cubs.

    this team needs more than one guy hitting the ball. howard's average is like 20 points higher than the next guy.

    we just wasted a rare good outing by fat joe.

    ruben needs to shake things up asap.
    www.myspace.com
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    Pretty sad that a muts fan makes more sense then a phillies fan but it happen.

    Just because you are a Phillies fan and love your team does not mean you can't look at a situation logically. Look at stats, figure out what they mean and decide which ones you like. I do not like all advanced stats, but a lot of them can tell you a whole lot about a players ability. If GM's and scouts are using these stats to evalute players, how are the irrelevant and not important and why should we ignore them?

    Within 5 years OPS with be an official MLB statstic. You act like Ryan Howard is the second coming of Babe Ruth for fucks sake. Do we probably trash him a little more than he deserves? Yes, but that is only because he has an absurd contract.

    If you can take a look at these stats, research them a bit and honestly tell me that you think RBI's and HR's are the best way to measure a players ability then I don't know what to tell you. But trashing these stats when you don't have a fucking clue what they are just makes you look ignorant.
    gm's and scouts use them cause it's their fucking job to find any means necessary to win a championship. are you a fan or a gm. you and a few others totally discredit regular stats that have been around since the birth of our national pastime. to me thats ignorant and comes off like your smarter then the rest of us fans.

    pearl jam's best run of music making was no code-binaural
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • The FixerThe Fixer Posts: 12,837
    metsfan wrote:
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    Pretty sad that a muts fan makes more sense then a phillies fan but it happen.

    Just because you are a Phillies fan and love your team does not mean you can't look at a situation logically. Look at stats, figure out what they mean and decide which ones you like. I do not like all advanced stats, but a lot of them can tell you a whole lot about a players ability. If GM's and scouts are using these stats to evalute players, how are the irrelevant and not important and why should we ignore them?

    Within 5 years OPS with be an official MLB statstic. You act like Ryan Howard is the second coming of Babe Ruth for fucks sake. Do we probably trash him a little more than he deserves? Yes, but that is only because he has an absurd contract.

    If you can take a look at these stats, research them a bit and honestly tell me that you think RBI's and HR's are the best way to measure a players ability then I don't know what to tell you. But trashing these stats when you don't have a fucking clue what they are just makes you look ignorant.
    gm's and scouts use them cause it's their fucking job to find any means necessary to win a championship. are you a fan or a gm. you and a few others totally discredit regular stats that have been around since the birth of our national pastime. to me thats ignorant and comes off like your smarter then the rest of us fans.

    pearl jam's best run of music making was no code-binaural

    so people should only use the stats that have been around for 100 years? if there are more analytical stats that can be used to more accurately judge performance people shouldn't use them because other stats have been around longer. that makes sense. that's like saying people shouldn't use cell phones, they should only use land lines because they've been around longer and that's what people have always used.

    sabermetrics aren't the be all end all, but they are valuable. to ignore or make fun of them because you don't understand them is shortsighted
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    The Fixer wrote:

    so people should only use the stats that have been around for 100 years? if there are more analytical stats that can be used to more accurately judge performance people shouldn't use them because other stats have been around longer. that makes sense. that's like saying people shouldn't use cell phones, they should only use land lines because they've been around longer and that's what people have always used.

    sabermetrics aren't the be all end all, but they are valuable. to ignore or make fun of them because you don't understand them is shortsighted
    they lose all discredit with me when one of them has a career minor leaguer as the 5th best defensive 1st baseman. i mean really that's a fucking joke.

    billy beane uses them and he's never won a world series and he's the "godfather" of sabermetrics. jack z built the m's around them and look at what they are doing. i could go on and on with a list of gm's that build their teams around these "stats" and haven't won shit. hell mets gm omar minaya uses them and the mets haven't made the playoffs in 4 damn fucking years. yea those are great "stats".


    thats why i bash them and will continue to do so and think they are just for gm's and fantasy baseball nerds
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    What about teams like Tampa and Boston?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,492
    if i smash my head against my computer screen and break it (or my head) can i sue pearl jam?
    www.myspace.com
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    And if the smartest people in the game are using them, why would fans not use them?

    I also don't play fantasy baseball, i just like to get a large perspective of a players ability. I love that arod has 70 RBI's right now but I also understand he is not having a great year. That is a perfect example.
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    And if the smartest people in the game are using them, why would fans not use them?

    I also don't play fantasy baseball, i just like to get a large perspective of a players ability. I love that arod has 70 RBI's right now but I also understand he is not having a great year. That is a perfect example.
    so now where calling billy beane smart. a guy who was a career minor leaguer and hasn't won shit is smart to you. wow dude just wow. how is 70 rbi's not a good season. let me guess his lame sabermetrics stats are horrible. hahaha

    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    What about teams like Tampa and Boston?
    hahahahahaha

    the number of sabermetrics teams that haven't done shit outweigh those 2 team big time. but hey you keep defended these "stats" and use 2 teams and i'll keep bringing up many teams that haven't done shit that use these "stats".
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    if i smash my head against my computer screen and break it (or my head) can i sue pearl jam?
    they might revoke your membership or give you bad seats if you sue. best not bash your head against the computer screen.

    lol
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    It is a fact that Arod is not having a typical Arod year regardless if he has 70 RBI's, the only reason he made the all star team is because Girardi brought him. His power has been borderline gone for a good part of the season. I don't care if he has 70 RBI's, he is not having an Arod year.

    Newsflash. Every GM uses advanced stats. Some do it better than others.
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    It is a fact that Arod is not having a typical Arod year regardless if he has 70 RBI's, the only reason he made the all star team is because Girardi brought him. His power has been borderline gone for a good part of the season. I don't care if he has 70 RBI's, he is not having an Arod year.

    Newsflash. Every GM uses advanced stats. Some do it better than others.
    newsflash for you these stats are stupid and the number of teams who use them and haven't done shit outweigh the teams that have won using them.

    it really is arguing with a brick wall with you sabermetrics guys
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    edited July 2010
    metsfan wrote:
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    It is a fact that Arod is not having a typical Arod year regardless if he has 70 RBI's, the only reason he made the all star team is because Girardi brought him. His power has been borderline gone for a good part of the season. I don't care if he has 70 RBI's, he is not having an Arod year.

    Newsflash. Every GM uses advanced stats. Some do it better than others.
    newsflash for you these stats are stupid and the number of teams who use them and haven't done shit outweigh the teams that have won using them.

    it really is arguing with a brick wall with you sabermetrics guys

    Yep, they are stupid and have no place in baseball. Looking at a sport that is based on stats analytically makes no sense.

    Every team uses them and you are crazy if you think they don't. That is a fact. It is what it is, if every GM in baseball is stupid, then I will be stupid with them.

    It is impossible to argue with someone who's response is, "sabermetrics are stupid" when in an arguement. We have offered many reasons as to why we think they are a good way to HELP measure a players ability and all you have come back with is that they are "stupid". Offer up an argument and we can talk.


    Edit: One example off the top of my head of a GM citing advanced stats is when Cashman discussed the Swisher trade. He cited the fact that Swiser had a very low BABIP while maintaing a consistent Line Drive rate and OBP as to why he thought Swiser would rebound. How did that work out?
    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    Cliffy6745 wrote:

    Yep, they are stupid and have no place in baseball. Looking at a sport that is based on stats analytically makes no sense.

    Every team uses them and you are crazy if you think they don't. That is a fact. It is what it is, if every GM in baseball is stupid, then I will be stupid with them.

    It is impossible to argue with someone who's response is, "sabermetrics are stupid" when in an arguement. We have offered many reasons as to why we think they are a good way to HELP measure a players ability and all you have come back with is that they are "stupid". Offer up an argument and we can talk.
    i have offered up arguements besides saying stupid. now your just reaching to prove your right in your little sabermetric world. i can keep this pissing match going all night long with you if you want to.


    metsfan wrote:
    they lose all discredit with me when one of them has a career minor leaguer as the 5th best defensive 1st baseman. i mean really that's a fucking joke.

    billy beane uses them and he's never won a world series and he's the "godfather" of sabermetrics. jack z built the m's around them and look at what they are doing. i could go on and on with a list of gm's that build their teams around these "stats" and haven't won shit. hell mets gm omar minaya uses them and the mets haven't made the playoffs in 4 damn fucking years. yea those are great "stats".


    thats why i bash them and will continue to do so and think they are just for gm's and fantasy baseball nerds
    metsfan wrote:

    the number of sabermetrics teams that haven't done shit outweigh those 2 team big time. but hey you keep defended these "stats" and use 2 teams and i'll keep bringing up many teams that haven't done shit that use these "stats".


    do any of these 2 posts sound stupid to you?
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,710
    But the fact is, every GM uses advanced stats. You cite the fact it didnt work out for the Mariners, A's and Mets but the fact is every front office is using them. The Red Sox have even developed their own set of stats.

    And I am not arguing with you about defensive stats, they are very flawed. I have said that many times. UZR had Tex as a below average first baseman last year which is absurd.
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Posts: 14,067
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    But the fact is, every GM uses advanced stats. You cite the fact it didnt work out for the Mariners, A's and Mets but the fact is every front office is using them. The Red Sox have even developed their own set of stats.

    And I am not arguing with you about defensive stats, they are very flawed. I have said that many times. UZR had Tex as a below average first baseman last year which is absurd.
    i just rattled off those 3 gm's cause they are the big 3 that use them. thats why i named those 3 teams.

    you can't discredit defensive sabermetrics stats just cause they are flawed. that seems silly to do so. it will take time for the gm's to fully get defensive sabermetrics somewhat right

    i have no problem with them but when your team doesn't make the playoffs for 4 straight years its hard to take them seriously like i do. luis castillo has been a great signing by omar but yet he's the offical mets fan basher. i bet omar signed him just cause he had good sabermetrics stats.
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,492
    so, how bout those phillies...
    www.myspace.com
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