***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

petrocs

REPEAT BITCHES!

Its never too early to start...now that the off season has officially begun we close the book on 2008's memorable season (and thread) and begin a new chapter in the Phillies history...we will talk trades, rumors, signings, spring training leading up to first pitch on opening day all the way to the 2009 World Series!

Jearlpam0925

World Series Champions....It sounds better and better every time. I guess I'm gonna need another 25 years to build up all that tension & animosity again. Even after the Birds' loss last night I can't believe how not upset I was. I just thought..."Yeah....but the Phils won the WORLD SERIES."

PJSerf

Should World Champion be in CAPS?

Just kidding... two weeks later, I'm still in shock...

petrocs

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Even after the Birds' loss last night I can't believe how not upset I was. I just thought..."Yeah....but the Phils won the WORLD SERIES."

I said the same thing! I was like "meh..ok we lost..whatever" Andy Reid still sucks though

petrocs

OK so Holliday is off to Oakland it appears...what do we do with LF? Whos going to be our starting 5 next year? How many wins will Jimmy predict!

Solat13

petrocs wrote:

OK so Holliday is off to Oakland it appears...what do we do with LF? Whos going to be our starting 5 next year? How many wins will Jimmy predict!

Amaro for now says he's willing to go with the three headed monster of Dobbs, Jenkins and Stairs in left which is kinda comical when you realize all three are left handed.

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

Amaro for now says he's willing to go with the three headed monster of Dobbs, Jenkins and Stairs in left which is kinda comical when you realize all three are left handed.

Exactly. I just think they're only option is to re-sign Burrell.

Yo, opening day traditionalists like myself...peep it...word.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3694438

petrocs

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Exactly. I just think they're only option is to re-sign Burrell.

Yo, opening day traditionalists like myself...peep it...word.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3694438

Sweeeet...we need to have a HUGE tailgate...all of us

pjhawks

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Exactly. I just think they're only option is to re-sign Burrell.

Yo, opening day traditionalists like myself...peep it...word.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3694438

Pat the Bat is not worth the money he will command. Unless he wants to take a 75% pay cut I don't see any chance of re-signing him. Bring in a Werth type right-handed bat.

Rotation should be Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton and Haap

Jearlpam0925

pjhawks wrote:

Pat the Bat is not worth the money he will command. Unless he wants to take a 75% pay cut I don't see any chance of re-signing him. Bring in a Werth type right-handed bat.

Rotation should be Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton and Haap

Yes, he is worth 10,12,14 mil again because there isn't any player of the Jayson Werth type out there this season. Look it up. Their best play would be Raul Ibanez and I don't know if that happens. Sign Burrell to a 2 year deal of like 24-28 million with a club option for a third year. If you figure the Phils were interested in Holliday, they would've paid him the 13 mil I think he gets this year. And that would've been for only one year because he definitely goes to free agency. Their best bet is to re-sign Burrell. It makes the most sense. There isn't anyone out there worth signing nor trading for - unless it's for a bargain of course. And there isn't anyone in the farm system worthy of starting. And a platoon of Dobbs, Stairs, Jenkins doesn't make sense since they're all lefties. Even after raises to the players on arbitration and the like, the Phils will have about 25-30 mil to work with - their payroll I guarantee is slotted for around 130 million this year. Again, it's their best play.

chromiam

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Yes, he is worth 10,12,14 mil again because there isn't any player of the Jayson Werth type out there this season. Look it up. Their best play would be Raul Ibanez and I don't know if that happens. Sign Burrell to a 2 year deal of like 24-28 million with a club option for a third year. If you figure the Phils were interested in Holliday, they would've paid him the 13 mil I think he gets this year. And that would've been for only one year because he definitely goes to free agency. Their best bet is to re-sign Burrell. It makes the most sense. There isn't anyone out there worth signing nor trading for - unless it's for a bargain of course. And there isn't anyone in the farm system worthy of starting. And a platoon of Dobbs, Stairs, Jenkins doesn't make sense since they're all lefties. Even after raises to the players on arbitration and the like, the Phils will have about 25-30 mil to work with - they're payroll I guarantee is slotted for around 130 million this year. Again, it's their best play.

Agreed.. I think Pat would take the $10 - 12 mil/year but not sure he would do it for less than 3 or 4 years guaranteed... he is however their best option in LF right now.

petrocs

Pat will be back..they failed at their chance at Holliday and now they will have to sign him unless you think they will go after Manny which I think is a pipe dream

Jearlpam0925

petrocs wrote:

Pat will be back..they failed at their chance at Holliday and now they will have to sign him unless you think they will go after Manny which I think is a pipe dream

Nah. I really don't think they're in the business of roping in the "big fish", but you tell me who's out there that's guaranteed to give you 30 HR's and around 90 RBI's, or to compensate that with a .300 hitter? Really no one, except Ibanez. And that's why Burrell is the best option and would also listen to a hometown discount - not much of a discount, but less than what he'd get anywhere else.

petrocs

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Nah. I really don't think they're in the business of roping in the "big fish", but you tell me who's out there that's guaranteed to give you 30 HR's and around 90 RBI's, or to compensate that with a .300 hitter? Really no one, except Ibanez. And that's why Burrell is the best option and would also listen to a hometown discount - not much of a discount, but less than what he'd get anywhere else.

Dont forget...Ryan Howard wants A-Rod #'s..his agent is talking 7 year $200+ million...I know we dont have to sign him right now but thats what we are looking at in the near future...Hamels we have to sign too at probably 7-8 years $90-112 million

Jearlpam0925

petrocs wrote:

Dont forget...Ryan Howard wants A-Rod #'s..his agent is talking 7 year $200+ million...I know we dont have to sign him right now but thats what we are looking at in the near future...Hamels we have to sign too at probably 7-8 years $90-112 million

I'd give Hamels a 5-6 year deal with options. Just because of his "delicate nature" and he pitches in the bank. Howard on the other hand I use until his last arbitration and then trade him if he wants those numbers. He is relatively young when it comes to service time, but in reality he's 29 and that's too big of numbers. He's definitely worth 20 mil, but not closer to 30.

Solat13

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Yes, he is worth 10,12,14 mil again because there isn't any player of the Jayson Werth type out there this season. Look it up. Their best play would be Raul Ibanez and I don't know if that happens. Sign Burrell to a 2 year deal of like 24-28 million with a club option for a third year. If you figure the Phils were interested in Holliday, they would've paid him the 13 mil I think he gets this year. And that would've been for only one year because he definitely goes to free agency. Their best bet is to re-sign Burrell. It makes the most sense. There isn't anyone out there worth signing nor trading for - unless it's for a bargain of course. And there isn't anyone in the farm system worthy of starting. And a platoon of Dobbs, Stairs, Jenkins doesn't make sense since they're all lefties. Even after raises to the players on arbitration and the like, the Phils will have about 25-30 mil to work with - their payroll I guarantee is slotted for around 130 million this year. Again, it's their best play.

When Werth came here as a free agent after two injury plagued years with the Dodgers no one thought he was going to be more than a bench player. He didn't even play in 2006 because of injuries so to say there is no one out there like Werth is not saying much.

That said, your best option is Rocco Baldelli if the Red Sox don't sign him first. Baldelli can play all three of positions would be a good part of a platoon and more importantly is a right handed bat and will cost much less than Burrell.

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

When Werth came here as a free agent after two injury plagued years with the Dodgers no one thought he was going to be more than a bench player. He didn't even play in 2006 because of injuries so to say there is no one out there like Werth is not saying much.

That said, your best option is Rocco Baldelli if the Red Sox don't sign him first. Baldelli can play all three of positions would be a good part of a platoon and more importantly is a right handed bat and will cost much less than Burrell.

Nah I don't want Baldelli - the man can't play consecutive games, nor past the 7th inning. Then again, it's not like Pat was either.

Solat13

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I'd give Hamels a 5-6 year deal with options. Just because of his "delicate nature" and he pitches in the bank. Howard on the other hand I use until his last arbitration and then trade him if he wants those numbers. He is relatively young when it comes to service time, but in reality he's 29 and that's too big of numbers. He's definitely worth 20 mil, but not closer to 30.

The Phillies just better hope Howard has a couple big years in the next 2 seasons or he won't even be a type A free agent netting the Phils two first round picks if he walks.

Howard currently is ranked 24th out of NL 1B and OF according to the new Elias rankings which makes him the next to last Type A free agent if he was a free agent this year.

Elias scores Howard as 73.077.

For comparison, Burrell scored an 80.000 and is the 13th highest 1B or OF in the NL.

Solat13

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Nah I don't want Baldelli - the man can't play consecutive games, nor past the 7th inning. Then again, it's not like Pat was either.

They said the same thing about Werth after his wrist injury which is why the Dodgers gave up on him. (The Phils should send a thank you bottle of champagne to the Dodgers for giving up on Werth and Victorino but that's for another day. )

Baldelli know that he is on medication can be a good platoon player and command probably less than half of what Burrell will ask for with better defense and more importantly be an actual right handed bat off the bench.

petrocs

Solat13 wrote:

The Phillies just better hope Howard has a couple big years in the next 2 seasons or he won't even be a type A free agent netting the Phils two first round picks if he walks.

Howard currently is ranked 24th out of NL 1B and OF according to the new Elias rankings which makes him the next to last Type A free agent if he was a free agent this year.

Elias scores Howard as 73.077.

For comparison, Burrell scored an 80.000 and is the 13th highest 1B or OF in the NL.

Which means Howards agent is a FRAUD!

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

They said the same thing about Werth after his wrist injury which is why the Dodgers gave up on him. (The Phils should send a thank you bottle of champagne to the Dodgers for giving up on Werth and Victorino but that's for another day. )

Baldelli know that he is on medication can be a good platoon player and command probably less than half of what Burrell will ask for with better defense and more importantly be an actual right handed bat off the bench.

I understand all this, but this isn't a matter of upside with Baldelli. This is a legitimate disease that my aunt, who's a doctor, was telling me about. With age it worsens, and your med's get increased. But like anything else the resistance can wear off. Mitochondria, as we all know science friends, is the backbone of everything we do. This dude gets exhausted way too quickly because of this. I definitely don't want him. All I'm saying is tell me how they will reproduce the numbers Pat put up. If you can tell me that can be done, then I'm all fine with not re-signing him.

petrocs

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I understand all this, but this isn't a matter of upside with Baldelli. This is a legitimate disease that my aunt, who's a doctor, was telling me about. With age it worsens, and your med's get increased. But like anything else the resistance can wear off. Mitochondria, as we all know science friends, is the backbone of everything we do. This dude gets exhausted way too quickly because of this. I definitely don't want him. All I'm saying is tell me how they will reproduce the numbers Pat put up. If you can tell me that can be done, then I'm all fine with not re-signing him.

I feel bad for the guy...I really do...every time I saw him up to bat he looked run down and scared..I wish him nothing but success and good feelings but I am with JP...I want nothing to do with him on this team

Solat13

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I understand all this, but this isn't a matter of upside with Baldelli. This is a legitimate disease that my aunt, who's a doctor, was telling me about. With age it worsens, and your med's get increased. But like anything else the resistance can wear off. Mitochondria, as we all know science friends, is the backbone of everything we do. This dude gets exhausted way too quickly because of this. I definitely don't want him. All I'm saying is tell me how they will reproduce the numbers Pat put up. If you can tell me that can be done, then I'm all fine with not re-signing him.

Pat Burrell after the Allstar Break 2008

.215/.313/.413 for an OPS .726 25 Runs scored 10 homers 29 rbis 48 hits and 58 Ks

So it's not like the Phils are losing that much production.

Jearlpam0925

petrocs wrote:

I feel bad for the guy...I really do...every time I saw him up to bat he looked run down and scared..I wish him nothing but success and good feelings but I am with JP...I want nothing to do with him on this team

Definitely. Seems like an all-around good dude that would go over great in this city, but I want to win again and again and again and again....

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

Pat Burrell after the Allstar Break 2008

.215/.313/.413 for an OPS .726 25 Runs scored 10 homers 29 rbis 48 hits and 58 Ks

So it's not like the Phils are losing that much production.

I don't care about after the All-Star break. 2 seasons ago he did the exact opposite - cold in the first half and hot in the second half. Numbers overall - don't ignore them.

Solat13

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

I don't care about after the All-Star break. 2 seasons ago he did the exact opposite - cold in the first half and hot in the second half. Numbers overall - don't ignore them.

True, batting over .260 twice in 9 seasons is worth 12-14 million nowadays.

He's a good player who is the second worst left fielder in baseball defensively. He is not worth anything more than a two year deal or else he becomes a blackhole on your payroll. He already is a 7 inning player at age 31. What will he be like in year 3 and 4 of a four year contract?

If he signs for two years for 20-22 million, I could live with that. Anything more is a mistake.

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

True, batting over .260 twice in 9 seasons is worth 12-14 million nowadays.

He's a good player who is the second worst left fielder in baseball defensively. He is not worth anything more than a two year deal or else he becomes a blackhole on your payroll. He already is a 7 inning player at age 31. What will he be like in year 3 and 4 of a four year contract?

If he signs for two years for 20-22 million, I could live with that. Anything more is a mistake.

So we're arguing the same point. Perfect.

petrocs

Solat13 wrote:

If he signs for two years for 20-22 million, I could live with that. Anything more is a mistake.

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42) - Type B
Garret Anderson (37) - Type B
Milton Bradley (31) - Type B
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32) - Type A
Adam Dunn (29) - Type A
Cliff Floyd (36)
Luis Gonzalez (41) - Type B
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Raul Ibanez (37) - Type A
Gabe Kapler (33)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33)
Craig Monroe (32)
Greg Norton (36)
Jay Payton (36)
Manny Ramirez (37) - Type A
Juan Rivera (30)
So Taguchi (39)

Here ya go...pick your poison

Jearlpam0925

petrocs wrote:

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42) - Type B
Garret Anderson (37) - Type B
Milton Bradley (31) - Type B
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32) - Type A
Adam Dunn (29) - Type A
Cliff Floyd (36)
Luis Gonzalez (41) - Type B
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Raul Ibanez (37) - Type A
Gabe Kapler (33)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33)
Craig Monroe (32)
Greg Norton (36)
Jay Payton (36)
Manny Ramirez (37) - Type A
Juan Rivera (30)
So Taguchi (39)

Here ya go...pick your poison

I didn't know Hasbro/Milton Bradley Monopoly was out there. Well there ya go, but then again he's a piece of crap and I don't like who he is as a human being not even a little bit.

petrocs

Or we can move Werth to Left and bring in a RF

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35) - Type A
Casey Blake (35) - Type B
Emil Brown (34)
Cliff Floyd (36)
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - Type B
Gabe Kapler (33)
Jason Michaels (33)
Trot Nixon (35)
Brad Wilkerson (32)

petrocs

oh...and here are the starting pitchers

Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - Type A
Paul Byrd (38) - Type B
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32) - Type A
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29) - Type B
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45) - Type B
Kenshin Kawakami (34)
Jon Lieber (39)
Braden Looper (34) - Type B
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09
Derek Lowe (36) - Type A
Greg Maddux (43) - Type B
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46) - Type A
Mark Mulder (31)
Mike Mussina (40) - Type A
John Parrish (31)
Carl Pavano (33)
Brad Penny (31) - Type B
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27) - Type A
Andy Pettitte (37) - Type A
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28) - Type A
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30) - Type A
John Smoltz (42) - Type B
Koji Uehara (34)
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32) - Type B



I'll take Mussina, Sabathia and Lowe to block Wink

My rotation:

Hamels
Sabathia
Lowe
Mussina
Myers

110 wins baby!