* Official 2007 Go Phillies Thread *

Solat13

satansbedbugs wrote:

I have to agree with My 2 Hands on this one Solat. Jimmy is a much better ball player all around. Defensively Jimmy is the best shortstop in the league NL ( fuck reyes ) . And offensively he can bat 1 , 2, 3 , 7, 8, 9 . He got some pop unlike coco and he might even be faster on the basepath. My vote goes to Jimmy and I consider coco a glorified bench / situational hitter at best. Ill take him to pinch hit before burrell though. sbb

I'm not arguing that Rollins isn't a better player.

I'm just arguing he's a terrible leadoff hitter.

satansbedbugs

Solat13 wrote:

I'm not arguing that Rollins isn't a better player.

I'm just arguing he's a terrible leadoff hitter.

Theres only 5 reallly good REAL leadoff hitters anyway.

1. ichiro-sea
2. reyes-nym
3. soriano-chi
4. damon- nyy
5. granderson- det......did I forget anyone?

Solat13

satansbedbugs wrote:

Theres only 5 reallly good REAL leadoff hitters anyway.

1. ichiro-sea
2. reyes-nym
3. soriano-chi
4. damon- nyy
5. granderson- det......did I forget anyone?

Damon has been horrible this year.

Good thing he only has like 30 million left on his contract for 2 and a half years.

satansbedbugs

Solat13 wrote:

Damon has been horrible this year.

Good thing he only has like 30 million left on his contract for 2 and a half years.

yeah, hes been hurt all year. when hes healthy though hes one of the best. injuries will kill you.

Solat13

satansbedbugs wrote:

yeah, hes been hurt all year. when hes healthy though hes one of the best. injuries will kill you.

The problem is he's too stubborn to go on the DL and hurting his team by playing. He likes being considered an iron man and has the longest current streak of playing 145 games or more in a season at 11 years, but he his visibly hurt and not the same player.

So as long as he goes out there everyday, I'm going to keep criticizing him.

I listen to a ton of NY sports talk because I hate Eskin and love the fact that the Yankees are doing so bad and the Yankees have asked him a few times this year to take a few weeks off and heal and he has refused. So if he's stubborn, he's fair game in my opinion.

Solat13

Just wanted to promote my buddy Charlie from my softball team's website:

http://www.celebrate10000.com/home.asp

He's worked really hard trying to get this celebration organized.

Anyone going to any of the games this weekend for a chance to see history?

chromiam

Solat13 wrote:

Just wanted to promote my buddy Charlie from my softball team's website:

http://www.celebrate10000.com/home.asp

He's worked really hard trying to get this celebration organized.

Anyone going to any of the games this weekend for a chance to see history?

I like the pint glass....

No plans on hitting any games since I'll be helping someone move this weekend ... but I figure they'll lose on Friday, the 13th just because this is how this team does things. Scott Rolen 2 run HR is the game winner.

satansbedbugs

chromiam wrote:

I like the pint glass....

No plans on hitting any games since I'll be helping someone move this weekend ... but I figure they'll lose on Friday, the 13th just because this is how this team does things. Scott Rolen 2 run HR is the game winner.

Man i Hope not....Ill be there praying for a win. I dont wanna be at the 10,000 loss game. But if they do lose I say Scott Rolen off jose mesa...lol

my2hands

Solat13 wrote:

When you bat leadoff, you have one job - to get on base and he can't do that.

when you bat leadoff, you have one job - to score runs

jrolls 3 years averages are 192 hits, 120 runs, and 70 rbi's...

and honestly, apparently like you i love the mulitude of statistics that come with baseball...but the only 2 personal offensive stats that mean anything are runs and rbi's. everyhting else is irrelevant

not to mention the lifetime avg for OBP for jroll and coco is:

rollins: .328
crisp: .327

and the 3 year OBP avg is:

rollins: .339
coco: .336



now lets look historically at a few great leadoff men from the past...

the lifetime OBP for vince coleman was .324

and lou brocks lifetime OBP was .343... jrolls OBP the last 3 years is .339...thats like a 5-6 walk difference per 162

of course there are other great leadoff men that had higher OBP, but these are 2 out of the first 3 i looked at...

my2hands

satansbedbugs wrote:

Man i Hope not....Ill be there praying for a win. I dont wanna be at the 10,000 loss game. But if they do lose I say Scott Rolen off jose mesa...lol

i want to see the loss...

Rolen off of Mesa would be perfect


Jose Mesa is like the turd that lingers and wont go down when you flush it

satansbedbugs

my2hands wrote:

when you bat leadoff, you have one job - to score runs

jrolls 3 years averages are 192 hits, 120 runs, and 70 rbi's...

and honestly, apparently like you i love the mulitude of statistics that come with baseball...but the only 2 personal offensive stats that mean anything are runs and rbi's. everyhting else is irrelevant

not to mention the lifetime avg for OBP for jroll and coco is:

rollins: .328
crisp: .327

and the 3 year OBP avg is:

rollins: .339
coco: .336



now lets look historically at a few great leadoff men from the past...

the lifetime OBP for vince coleman was .324

and lou brocks lifetime OBP was .343... jrolls OBP the last 3 years is .339...thats like a 5-6 walk difference per 162

of course there are other great leadoff men that had higher OBP, but these are 2 out of the first 3 i looked at...

wow , lou brock and coleman huh. how deep did you dig for that? cocos a bum and Im done talking about him

chromiam

my2hands wrote:

i want to see the loss...

Rolen off of Mesa would be perfect

yes it would be... and I remember someone writing that the bottom of the 9th ends with 3 strikeouts... Pat Burrell being the final victim.

Solat13

my2hands wrote:

when you bat leadoff, you have one job - to score runs

jrolls 3 years averages are 192 hits, 120 runs, and 70 rbi's...

and honestly, apparently like you i love the mulitude of statistics that come with baseball...but the only 2 personal offensive stats that mean anything are runs and rbi's. everyhting else is irrelevant

not to mention the lifetime avg for OBP for jroll and coco is:

rollins: .328
crisp: .327

and the 3 year OBP avg is:

rollins: .339
coco: .336



now lets look historically at a few great leadoff men from the past...

the lifetime OBP for vince coleman was .324

and lou brocks lifetime OBP was .343... jrolls OBP the last 3 years is .339...thats like a 5-6 walk difference per 162

of course there are other great leadoff men that had higher OBP, but these are 2 out of the first 3 i looked at...

I'll reply more later, but if you think Vince Coleman was a great leadoff man, you don't understand the value of on base percentage.

And for all of Coleman's speed he only scored 100 runs twice in his career.

You can't score if you don't get on base. As Rickey Henderson said, "Walking and getting on base is the most important job a leadoff hitter has. Without runners on base you never score."

Solat13

chromiam wrote:

yes it would be... and I remember someone writing that the bottom of the 9th ends with 3 strikeouts... Pat Burrell being the final victim.

That was me ... lol.

I said Rolen GW single in top of the 9th with two men on and then Pat the No Bat striking out looking to end the game.

satansbedbugs

chromiam wrote:

yes it would be... and I remember someone writing that the bottom of the 9th ends with 3 strikeouts... Pat Burrell being the final victim.

Bases loaded , bottom 9 , 2 out......Ray King on the mound for the redbirds ( god knows their saving their real closer for a more competitive team ) Pat Burrell steps in for the phils . ( Half the crowd begins to exit the seating area ) First pitch is a fastball for strike 1. Second pitch is a breaking ball tapped foul down the third base line. Third pitch is DRIVEN HIGH AND DEEP AND THIS BABY IS A >>>>>> FOUL BALL , JUST FOUL OVER THE LEFT FIELD FOUL POLE. fourth pitch ........CALLED STRIKE THREE ON THE OUTSIDE CORNER AND BURRELL IS NOT HAPPY......BOTH BENCHES CLEAR AND THIS GAME IS OVER ....THE RED BIRDS WIN IT 5-4 ON A 2 RUN HR FROM SCOTT ROLEN OFF JOSE MESA.......or something like that

chromiam

I think you mean called third strike on the inside corner as Burrell acts like the pitch was way inside... if it was on the outside corner it would be a breaking ball or slider thrown to Ryan Howard with him swinging well out in front.

my2hands

Solat13 wrote:

I'll reply more later, but if you think Vince Coleman was a great leadoff man, you don't understand the value of on base percentage.

And for all of Coleman's speed he only scored 100 runs twice in his career.

You can't score if you don't get on base. As Rickey Henderson said, "Walking and getting on base is the most important job a leadoff hitter has. Without runners on base you never score."

um, jimmy is scoring 120 runs a year... that is a lead off man's job my friend...you can break it down how you like, but the only thing that counts is runs and rbi's... IMO

jamminpearls

Who is really wearing #5 the last 2 games????????????????

satansbedbugs

my2hands wrote:

um, jimmy is scoring 120 runs a year... that is a lead off man's job my friend...you can break it down how you like, but the only thing that counts is runs and rbi's... IMO

If I could interjesct one comment in this debate. I have agreed with my2hands a lot in this conversation, BUT I have to side with solat on this one. As a lifelong adolescent baseball player the leadoff hitters job is to get on base any way possible . without baserunners no runs get scored period. usually your leadoff guy is your speed as well so in a perfect world you would want your leadoff guy to walk, steal second, then score on a base hit. go phils

my2hands

satansbedbugs wrote:

If I could interjesct one comment in this debate. I have agreed with my2hands a lot in this conversation, BUT I have to side with solat on this one. As a lifelong adolescent baseball player the leadoff hitters job is to get on base any way possible . without baserunners no runs get scored period. usually your leadoff guy is your speed as well so in a perfect world you would want your leadoff guy to walk, steal second, then score on a base hit. go phils

the only 2 statistics that count are runs and rbi's...

obp, ops, slg, avg, etc are just for the stat junkies like us... they really dont mean a thing.

and i think it is clear the last 3 years that jimmy is one of the premier leadoff men in baseball

my2hands

satansbedbugs wrote:

If I could interjesct one comment in this debate. I have agreed with my2hands a lot in this conversation, BUT I have to side with solat on this one. As a lifelong adolescent baseball player the leadoff hitters job is to get on base any way possible . without baserunners no runs get scored period. usually your leadoff guy is your speed as well so in a perfect world you would want your leadoff guy to walk, steal second, then score on a base hit. go phils

tell that to lou brock... i think we can all agree he is one of the greatest leadoff men in baseball history, and he has the same obp as jroll

chromiam

well we weren't that far off... although who would have thought that almost every other Cardinal would have a HR except Rolen... and I think Howard striking out swinging was more fitting, wonder if it was a change-up on the outside corner.

satansbedbugs

So I called Big daddy at 610 wip LAST NIGHT AT 2:00 AM RIGHT. And told him that the phillies dont have a shot in hell at making a run at anything this year. He said " you know what your the first caller thats called tonight that I actually agree with." he goes " who are we kidding ?" we want to believe , but c'mon who are we kidding? the lineup itself is stacked , right? we ALL know that . The phillies can hit. But WE JUST CANNOT WIN THE CLOSE GAMES and that is what seperates us from the dodgers, mets, red sox, etc etc etc........ I hate to say it because I am a huge phillies fan . I just know this.. when the trade deadline comes the phillies are gonna have thier thumbs in their ass because they dont have the young guys in the farm to get anything done nor do they have the money to get anything done nor do they have the balls to get anything done. WE WANT MARK CUBAN

chromiam

Phils actually have a better record this year in one run games then the Braves and Mets.... that said, with the weak pitching the Phils throw out there I can't believe we are going anywhere fast.

my2hands

satansbedbugs wrote:

So I called Big daddy at 610 wip LAST NIGHT AT 2:00 AM RIGHT. And told him that the phillies dont have a shot in hell at making a run at anything this year. He said " you know what your the first caller thats called tonight that I actually agree with." he goes " who are we kidding ?" we want to believe , but c'mon who are we kidding? the lineup itself is stacked , right? we ALL know that . The phillies can hit. But WE JUST CANNOT WIN THE CLOSE GAMES and that is what seperates us from the dodgers, mets, red sox, etc etc etc........ I hate to say it because I am a huge phillies fan . I just know this.. when the trade deadline comes the phillies are gonna have thier thumbs in their ass because they dont have the young guys in the farm to get anything done nor do they have the money to get anything done nor do they have the balls to get anything done. WE WANT MARK CUBAN

i called the other night (around 1am)(I forget the assholes name) and told the dude on at the time he was an idiot bc he was trashing jroll... he said adam everett was a better ss than jroll? i couldnt fukcing believe it and i had to call for the first time in a few years... i told him he was a fraud and must have never seen a baseball game in his life

adam fucking everett? what a joke... everett is hitting .228 which is about his career average? sometimes those WIP guys are clueless

why is it NO ONE gives jroll credit?

satansbedbugs

my2hands wrote:

i called the other night (around 1am)(I forget the assholes name) and told the dude on at the time he was an idiot bc he was trashing jroll... he said adam everett was a better ss than jroll? i couldnt fukcing believe it and i had to call for the first time in a few years... i told him he was a fraud and must have never seen a baseball game in his life

adam fucking everett? what a joke... everett is hitting .228 which is about his career average? sometimes those WIP guys are clueless

why is it NO ONE gives jroll credit?

The thing I hate about those WIP guys is they only talk about the negative. ALL THE TIME they talk about the negative. The phils could win 15-0 and they would say " well , you know Aaron Rowand looked like shit tonight and struck out twice." Thats why I only listen when im drunk or at about 3:00am when big daddy is on, because he is the only one I can stand.

my2hands

satansbedbugs wrote:

The thing I hate about those WIP guys is they only talk about the negative. ALL THE TIME they talk about the negative. The phils could win 15-0 and they would say " well , you know Aaron Rowand looked like shit tonight and struck out twice." Thats why I only listen when im drunk or at about 3:00am when big daddy is on, because he is the only one I can stand.

you listen to talk radio when your drunk?

satansbedbugs

my2hands wrote:

you listen to talk radio when your drunk?

yup!! when me and your mom are done making box spring music, she falls asleep and I turn on WIP.

my2hands

satansbedbugs wrote:

yup!! when me and your mom are done making box spring music, she falls asleep and I turn on WIP.

do you steal every single line that guy uses? do you have any original thoughts dude? :rolleyes:

PJSerf

Who needs pitching when we can score 15 runs a game?