Immigration

Tim Simmons

Unemployment is at a 35 year low. So its not them taking jobs. There has been no increase in crime from immigrants

If its not Xenophobia, whats the driver then? 

Merkin Baller

I can't help but feel like if American's were THAT concerned about security there would be a lot more anger and push back against the pardoning of the 1/6 domestic terrorists, but what do I know? 

mace1229

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

Tim Simmons

I think like most things in this country, I think theres bright shiny things that are easier to have an opinion based on feeling on, rather figuring out what the real issue is because that requires work, gathering of information, and spending time on stuff that is difficult. 


So basically any cultural war issue of the past decade.

Halifax2TheMax

Which ports of entry or border did those 19 Saudi hijackers cross again? Anyone?

josevolution

Tim Simmons said:

If its not Xenophobia, what is then? Unemployment is at a 20 year low. So its not them taking jobs. There has been no increase in crime from immigrants

So whats the driver then? 

The hotels full of immigrants was the turning point at least here in NY! Michigan was the Haitians eating everyone’s cats & dogs, Denver was the gangs taking over whole neighborhoods did I miss anything oh yeah that student getting killed by a criminal immigrant was the final straw 

Tim Simmons

Don’t forget the threat of the hoards of caravans

josevolution

Tim Simmons said:

Don’t forget the threat of the hoards of caravans

Some people say it’s a 20 mile long caravan and Kamala is leading them handing out Obamaphones along the way 

Go Beavers

hunterh75 said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Spunkie said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spunkie said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spunkie said:

If only he would take it a step further and send back all the white European colonizers too...

I would imagine they’re long dead. 

Oh shoot you're right.

I meant to say white send back all the white European occupiers, too!  Ya, you

I was born here. 

Trump getting rid of that rule isn't he? Just saying it's pretty ironic he wants to get rid of all newer immigrants...not the euro boat ppl descendants tho... Like if he took it a step further thatd mean all y'all white people

This is a very nuanced topic, but I really dislike this line of thought.  I mean, this can just keep going on and on and on.....

I agree with Obama.  Starting today, enter illegally?  Get caught and sent out.  Commit a crime and here illegally or even waiting for asylum decision?  Get caught and sent out.

Do that and then see where we stand.   See about programs with path to citizenship...but require path to citizenship or be sent out.

Can't go against the constitution unless you change it....and in reality, times have changed and it would be appropriate to review and change the constitution in some ways.  But follow the standard until you change the standard.

and if congress actualkly would do their fucking job and be the co-equal branch they are supposed to be , we wouldn't be here now.

I don't think they have ever actualkly done anything, lol.....hopefully some more illegal criminal immigrants will get deported today. Law abiding immigrants coming in legally are more than welcome. Good day fellers

Not everyone feels the same. No more refugees combined with this:

In the Thursday meeting in which President Trump complained about "having all these people from shithole countries come here" — and singled out Haiti, El Salvador and Africa as examples — he also added that, "we should have more people from Norway."

Tim Simmons

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

I agree with all of this (and thats why we are the greatest country) except this one point and thats what I was getting at. We literally had 2 years of news about CRT in classrooms that led to banning of books and school lessons and angry school board meetings. And rather acknowledging the sins of the past and sayin, hey lets be a little more honest in our education so we are not doomed to repeat it, we doubled down.

And now here we are. If all that happens is we boot illegals who committed crimes. I'm fine with that. But given some of the EOs of the past week, I don't think we are stopping there. And rather than saying hey, it isn't right that they snuck in but maybe we have a flawed system thats difficult to navigate, legally and financially, and we should rethink that so that we take in people who want to hustle here and contribute to our society, we're drawing a line saying fuck THESE people here for...reasons.

So I get why America gets shit on and rather than be the promise of Emma Lazarus' poem, we just continually say fuck em, we have the might and thats right.
 

*sorry didn't realize the rest of my post got deleted.

Go Beavers

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

Merkin Baller

Go Beavers said:

hunterh75 said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Spunkie said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spunkie said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spunkie said:

If only he would take it a step further and send back all the white European colonizers too...

I would imagine they’re long dead. 

Oh shoot you're right.

I meant to say white send back all the white European occupiers, too!  Ya, you

I was born here. 

Trump getting rid of that rule isn't he? Just saying it's pretty ironic he wants to get rid of all newer immigrants...not the euro boat ppl descendants tho... Like if he took it a step further thatd mean all y'all white people

This is a very nuanced topic, but I really dislike this line of thought.  I mean, this can just keep going on and on and on.....

I agree with Obama.  Starting today, enter illegally?  Get caught and sent out.  Commit a crime and here illegally or even waiting for asylum decision?  Get caught and sent out.

Do that and then see where we stand.   See about programs with path to citizenship...but require path to citizenship or be sent out.

Can't go against the constitution unless you change it....and in reality, times have changed and it would be appropriate to review and change the constitution in some ways.  But follow the standard until you change the standard.

and if congress actualkly would do their fucking job and be the co-equal branch they are supposed to be , we wouldn't be here now.

I don't think they have ever actualkly done anything, lol.....hopefully some more illegal criminal immigrants will get deported today. Law abiding immigrants coming in legally are more than welcome. Good day fellers

Not everyone feels the same. No more refugees combined with this:

In the Thursday meeting in which President Trump complained about "having all these people from shithole countries come here" — and singled out Haiti, El Salvador and Africa as examples — he also added that, "we should have more people from Norway."

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command"

Go Beavers

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

You have seen a lot of Americans say it will be a negative when whites are a minority, and you have seen politicians from one political party promote the idea that white people need to have more babies. 

Adding these things up communicates something. 

Go Beavers

Merkin Baller said:

Go Beavers said:

hunterh75 said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Spunkie said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spunkie said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spunkie said:

If only he would take it a step further and send back all the white European colonizers too...

I would imagine they’re long dead. 

Oh shoot you're right.

I meant to say white send back all the white European occupiers, too!  Ya, you

I was born here. 

Trump getting rid of that rule isn't he? Just saying it's pretty ironic he wants to get rid of all newer immigrants...not the euro boat ppl descendants tho... Like if he took it a step further thatd mean all y'all white people

This is a very nuanced topic, but I really dislike this line of thought.  I mean, this can just keep going on and on and on.....

I agree with Obama.  Starting today, enter illegally?  Get caught and sent out.  Commit a crime and here illegally or even waiting for asylum decision?  Get caught and sent out.

Do that and then see where we stand.   See about programs with path to citizenship...but require path to citizenship or be sent out.

Can't go against the constitution unless you change it....and in reality, times have changed and it would be appropriate to review and change the constitution in some ways.  But follow the standard until you change the standard.

and if congress actualkly would do their fucking job and be the co-equal branch they are supposed to be , we wouldn't be here now.

I don't think they have ever actualkly done anything, lol.....hopefully some more illegal criminal immigrants will get deported today. Law abiding immigrants coming in legally are more than welcome. Good day fellers

Not everyone feels the same. No more refugees combined with this:

In the Thursday meeting in which President Trump complained about "having all these people from shithole countries come here" — and singled out Haiti, El Salvador and Africa as examples — he also added that, "we should have more people from Norway."

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command"

And to make fiction non-fiction, he gave us this:

What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”

Go Beavers

Halifax2TheMax said:

Which ports of entry or border did those 19 Saudi hijackers cross again? Anyone?

Jinxies

HughFreakingDillon

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

debunked. 

FiveBelow

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Tim Simmons

I think its worth pointing out that its odd to be hyper fixated on one area, when the worst occurrence of violence perpetrated by immigrants in this country didn't happen from guys who came from that area of hyper fixation. 

FiveBelow

Tim Simmons said:

I think its worth pointing out that its odd to be hyper fixated on one area, when the worst occurrence of violence perpetrated by immigrants in this country didn't happen from guys who came from that area of hyper fixation. 

I couldn't agree more. That's why I am trying to dismiss the hyper fixation of xenophobia being the root issue by posing questions to the contrary.

Halifax2TheMax

FiveBelow said:

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Context. Here’s what you posted:

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves.

Now, tell us which border Timothy McVeigh came across? Or how about Richard Reid or Ramzī Yousef? Or Aimal Kansi?