Immigration

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Context. Here’s what you posted:

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves.

Now, tell us which border Timothy McVeigh came across? Or how about Richard Reid or Ramzī Yousef? Or Aimal Kansi?

It's very simple, Hal. Some people scream xenophobia when border security is brought up, others feel there are a multitude of reasons why someone could be concerned about it. It's clear which side I'm on, where do you stand?

Halifax2TheMax

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Context. Here’s what you posted:

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves.

Now, tell us which border Timothy McVeigh came across? Or how about Richard Reid or Ramzī Yousef? Or Aimal Kansi?

It's very simple, Hal. Some people scream xenophobia when border security is brought up, others feel there are a multitude of reasons why someone could be concerned about it. It's clear which side I'm on, where do you stand?

With the majority of senators who were ready to pass an immigration bill before the repubs got scared of COOTWH. How about you?

Do you deny Xenophobia is one of the “multitude of reasons”, Five?

Tim Simmons

FiveBelow said:

Tim Simmons said:

I think its worth pointing out that its odd to be hyper fixated on one area, when the worst occurrence of violence perpetrated by immigrants in this country didn't happen from guys who came from that area of hyper fixation. 

I couldn't agree more. That's why I am trying to dismiss the hyper fixation of xenophobia being the root issue by posing questions to the contrary.

But several examples to the point were also posted. It’s clear it’s been a driver into working people up about the “issue”.

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Context. Here’s what you posted:

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves.

Now, tell us which border Timothy McVeigh came across? Or how about Richard Reid or Ramzī Yousef? Or Aimal Kansi?

It's very simple, Hal. Some people scream xenophobia when border security is brought up, others feel there are a multitude of reasons why someone could be concerned about it. It's clear which side I'm on, where do you stand?

With the majority of senators who were ready to pass an immigration bill before the repubs got scared of COOTWH. How about you?

Do you deny Xenophobia is one of the “multitude of reasons”, Five?

I've already stated it exists, it's my opinion that it's just not nearly at the magnitude some here think it is. Like many topics, the fringes tend to become the focus. I think we can both agree that is not the best approach.

Merkin Baller

There are plenty of reasons for people to want a solution to immigration, and I think most people here agree that it needs to be fixed. 

Having said that, to deny that our current president ran on a platform of xenophobia and that it's one of the driving motivations behind the anti-immigrant sentiment this day in age is to deny reality. 

Halifax2TheMax

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Context. Here’s what you posted:

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves.

Now, tell us which border Timothy McVeigh came across? Or how about Richard Reid or Ramzī Yousef? Or Aimal Kansi?

It's very simple, Hal. Some people scream xenophobia when border security is brought up, others feel there are a multitude of reasons why someone could be concerned about it. It's clear which side I'm on, where do you stand?

With the majority of senators who were ready to pass an immigration bill before the repubs got scared of COOTWH. How about you?

Do you deny Xenophobia is one of the “multitude of reasons”, Five?

I've already stated it exists, it's my opinion that it's just not nearly at the magnitude some here think it is. Like many topics, the fringes tend to become the focus. I think we can both agree that is not the best approach.

Like “security” being the driving factor? I mean, COOTWH didn’t claim the Irish or the Eastern European or Russian immigrants were eating the dogs and cats, now did he?

mickeyrat

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

Go Beavers

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Go Beavers said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

FiveBelow said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pro gun is such a psychotic view. I mean, that's like calling pro-women's rights "pro abortion". 

I have periodically over the years tried to explain to forced birthers why no one is "pro-abortion." They never get it.

Now apply this same logic to stances on border security. Is it blatant xenophobia like one side of our precious duopoly paints it out to be, or for the vast majority, could it merely just be security concerns? 

It is pure xenophobia under the guise of "border security". Whipped up by the great conspiracy theory and dogwhistle machine that is the rightwingosphere and republican politicians grifting every dumbass who believs all of the bs.

Every last person worried about "border security" only cares about the southern border. They don't care or mention the nothern border or god forbid all the white people coming in illegally at international airports.

Nope its just all the brown people with funny names swimming across the Rio Grande.

From my personal point of view is there a border problem? Sure. Always has been. With nothern and southern borders as big as ours this is inherent.
But I know that just as many, if not more, "security threats' get in at International Airports. You don't  ever see red state governors sending their taxpayer funded national guard to the nothern border or to Kennedy Airport or O'Hare or Dulles.

Just the southern border.

I’m shocked someone didn’t question your example of actually speaking for, not only the majority, but every last person.

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves. We’ll just have to disagree that xenophobia is the driving force behind the average American’s security concerns, unless you can somehow prove this to be unequivocally true. Simply repeating a political party’s rhetoric doesn’t suffice. 

Didn’t some of the 9/11 guys come in through Canada? 

How does singling out the entry points for a terrorist attack prove ones stance of xenophobia being the vast majority's concern? Let's try to stay on topic. Goalpoasts needn't be moved to argue this very specific discussion.

Context. Here’s what you posted:

You and I both know which border has been viewed as the greater security risk, history of its activity and our governments actions to curb it speak for themselves.

Now, tell us which border Timothy McVeigh came across? Or how about Richard Reid or Ramzī Yousef? Or Aimal Kansi?

It's very simple, Hal. Some people scream xenophobia when border security is brought up, others feel there are a multitude of reasons why someone could be concerned about it. It's clear which side I'm on, where do you stand?

Republicans intentionally contaminated the discussion on immigration and the border by being xenophobic. So now when the xenophobia is pointed out as a motivator for their border policy, the base will instantly get defensive about the left accusing “everyone of being racist”. 

Obama did not contaminate his border response with xenophobia and the whataboutism from the right about him only reinforces this. 

mickeyrat

I say put up the same bill that got killed on a certain someones wishes and see if it passes when that same someone can claim credit.

tbergs

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

mickeyrat

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

Go Beavers

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

tbergs

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

Are there several instances of this? Not trying to downplay because I know it happens, but is that anything new or people only care about it now because Trump is a POS?

mickeyrat

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

then lay out the actual numbers of these students vs the citizen student. by average or percentage. to hear you tell it these schools are overrun with migrant children far surpassing the citizen student population.  Frankly, I dont see it based on the kids waiting at the neighborhood bus stop locations.  ot those in walking distance to this immersion school near me.

tbergs

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

tbergs

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Because we don't learn our lesson and keep absolutely shitting on groups of people as if we have been here forever and always, all the while barely acknowledging that we do it rather than saying, he man, everyone's cool and we learned our lessons from mistakes of the past so lets share this land and be the land of opportunity for all. 

What other counties spend what we spend on illegal immigrants as it is? The cost of education on the average legal vs non-legal students is different. We spends thousands of dollars on translators in the classroom, co-teachers, teachers often have to spend their own time and money to get certified for language learners. I don't know any country that spends when we spend on illegal resident. Sure, a lot of those apply to legal residents to, but its at a much lower rate.
I doubt there's another country in the world I can take my kids to illegally and get half the services they get here. But it's not enough and we're perceived as bad and racists for doing more than any other country.
I haven't seen anyone deny our nation's history. I haven't seen anyone who wants to deport all immigrants. At the most, its only illegal immigrants, and usually the focus is on criminals and preventing more from coming. Which is pretty standard around the world.

differentiate the costs between legal migrants and undocumented. services overlap, do they not? where those funds come from to begin with? property taxes?  regardless of status, rent or mortgage ownership would account for at least a good portion of this funding. so in effect unless migrants of whatever status live in a tent or other nonfixed abode they are in fact contributing to these services.

I didn't say they don't contribute. I said they use them at a higher rate when compared to others.
Schools offer free food below a certain income. Almost every school is going to have language services. Many schools and districts with a higher ELL population will have 2 teachers in classrooms, one a language specialist and one the content teacher. No services are denied a student based on their legal status. And I am not saying they should be. But, I am saying lets recognize that a higher percentage of students who are of illegal immigration status fall into the categories that require these extra services and drive up the cost of education. 

then lay out the actual numbers of these students vs the citizen student. by average or percentage. to hear you tell it these schools are overrun with migrant children far surpassing the citizen student population.  Frankly, I dont see it based on the kids waiting at the neighborhood bus stop locations.  ot those in walking distance to this immersion school near me.

Just going to chime in about a local story I saw related to a town in MN here a few months ago where they've seen the population significantly change based on immigrants coming there for work. No idea the cost, but clearly a lot of adaptations are being made to accommodate the students in that school. 

https://apnews.com/article/2024-election-immigration-policy-integration-minnesota-education-economy-walz-1243545711f877204f8f13d69654fb37

mickeyrat

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

beginning to occur. a fucking citizen veteran of the military was arrested in jersey. do a search of the ap or reuters. because its hamfisted.

and of course the head in dc is going to put a goid public face on things as well as staged tv news pieces.

its the shit thats happening outside of that circumstances that are troubling to me. burden on the citizen to prove I'm a citizen?

fuck you, prove I'm not. there is the presumption of innocence , is there not? guilty or not, burden of proof is on the government.

Go Beavers

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

Any news on the arrests of employers who hire illegals? 

HughFreakingDillon

Go Beavers said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

mickeyrat said:

tbergs said:

It's unfortunate Trump is such a horrible communicator and serial exaggerating moron because if ICE agents are operating like in this story from AP, I don't see how anyone could be opposed to what they're doing.

People considered public safety and national security threats are still the top priority, Elliston said.

That is no different from the Biden administration, but a big change has already taken hold: Under Trump, officers can now arrest people without legal status if they run across them while looking for migrants targeted for removal. Under Joe Biden, such “collateral arrests” were banned.

“We’re looking for those public safety, national security cases. The big difference being, nobody has a free pass anymore,” Elliston said.

The number of collateral arrests has fluctuated, he said. By the end of Monday across Maryland, ICE had arrested 13 people. Of those, nine were targets and the other four were people ICE came across during the course of the morning.

Of those “collaterals,” one had an aggravated theft conviction. Another had already been deported once, and two others had final orders of removal.

Immigration officers are operating with a new sense of mission. Now, 'nobody gets a free pass' | AP News https://search.app/7sbxKb46nEH9WqgG8

and the stories of citizens getting swooped up? natives?

And the narcs, the posse, the pressure on people
to violate sanctuary laws, and the ongoing permission for ay holes to be ay holes and harass minorities. 

Maybe this has become more common, but expressing concerns that may occur are not the same as them actually frequently occurring. From what I've read and seen so far, they're sticking to the lists of names they have and also picking up people in proximity that they encounter who are undocumented. I don't support people acting like assholes and stomping on civil rights to accomplish this. 

Any news on the arrests of employers who hire illegals? 

so....likely (at least) half of congress? lol