If you are an atheist but God exists, you will spend eternity in hell because you had the opportunity to believe. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, all you did was give up a little bit of your time to worship God and forego sin. What atheism really comes down to is selfishness - it's all about what I want.
and that is my call is it not? i can not bring myself to believe in something that makes zero sense to me.
i would hardly call it selfishness to choose not to compromise myself in order to believe in something i can not logically believe in, just cause the alternative is an imaginary hell.
i don't think you understand. as an atheist i don't believe there is a hell. naturally i also don't believe there is a heaven. the possible existence(which i don't believe) plays no aprt in how i live my life.
it is not all about what i want. it is all about how i can live my life in order that i can find some peace before i die. if i live my life to the best of my abilities then that is my peace. and if i do that without imposing upon others or hurting them in any way then that shall also be my peace.
who are you living your life for? do you forego all sin? or just the ones convenient for you to do so?
don't tell me if i do not believe in your God that i am going to hell. it is no deterrent to me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
would you as an atheist want to go to heaven? if you say yes, then that means that you want to do whatever you want and reject God yet still have him accept you to heaven. That seems pretty selfish on your part. If you want no part of heaven then there's no selfishness.
how can an atheist want to go to heaven? it is non existent to them.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
but only if they change their mind before they die? i dont view the christian god as anything other than what im told he is. now, if christians tell me that i can only go to heaven if i accept jesus, the bible, and all accompanying doctrines BEFORE i die... how is that any different from what i have been saying? you choose wrong, and you go to hell.
otherwise, it is as i said, i can worship whatever and however i want now as long as it is honest and sincere and then god will judge me on those merits. under that system, you don't have to be christian to go to heaven.
so do you or don't you? if you do, then your argument is deceptive, becos god IS punishing you for choosing wrong. if you don't then what does it matter what faith you use to express your love of god? it's only a matter of what works for you.
well, basically, yes... that's how the story goes... "i am the way, the truth, and the life. no man comes to the Father but by me." that's one thing.
but when you put it this way, "oh God is such a meany because he'll send you to hell if you don't like him." that's where i'm trying to correct you. the bible never says that. i could be an atheist myself and read the bible and still conclude the same thing that, no, the bible doesn't say it.
yes, if you want salvation the only way is through Jesus Christ. that's the message of the Bible. you're absolutely right. but no... God doesn't send you to hell because you don't accept Jesus. you sent yourself to hell.
it's like this. you commit a crime. you're going to jail. so now the judge says, ok, you don't have a lawyer to back you up, go to jail. if you do have a lawyer and he has proof to back you up, then you don't go to jail. that's how it is with the message of the bible. God is the judge... christ is the lawyer and you are the suspect.
i guess all in all we have a hard time understanding this because God hates sin. he hates it because of what it has caused to his creation. so sin cannot enter the kingdom of heaven... if you have not repented of your sins so that Christ can wash them away you neither can enter. it's basically how it is.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
well, basically, yes... that's how the story goes... "i am the way, the truth, and the life. no man comes to the Father but by me." that's one thing.
but when you put it this way, "oh God is such a meany because he'll send you to hell if you don't like him." that's where i'm trying to correct you. the bible never says that. i could be an atheist myself and read the bible and still conclude the same thing that, no, the bible doesn't say it.
yes, if you want salvation the only way is through Jesus Christ. that's the message of the Bible. you're absolutely right. but no... God doesn't send you to hell because you don't accept Jesus. you sent yourself to hell.
it's like this. you commit a crime. you're going to jail. so now the judge says, ok, you don't have a lawyer to back you up, go to jail. if you do have a lawyer and he has proof to back you up, then you don't go to jail. that's how it is with the message of the bible. God is the judge... christ is the lawyer and you are the suspect.
i guess all in all we have a hard time understanding this because God hates sin. he hates it because of what it has caused to his creation. so sin cannot enter the kingdom of heaven... if you have not repented of your sins so that Christ can wash them away you neither can enter. it's basically how it is.
sometimes think I'm reading a scientific novel on this board......wow
Although I have been a Christian for about 24 years , I've always worshipped in private and only recently started attending a church on a regular basis .
I believe , in God , Jesus and the basic Christian message ; but I respect the right of anyone else to believe or not believe in whatever they choose .
I do have concerns about what "fate" awaits those of us who make the wrong choices , I do hope God is a lot more lenient about who he lets into "heaven" than some biblical passages suggest .
I don't much care for the way some people with religious beliefs try to beat up non-believers with threats of eternal fires . I also don't much care for the mocking nature of some atheists .
I don't pretend to know all the reasons why things are what they are , but I have faith and from that faith I have received what I perceive to be proof of God's existence and love .
I just wish , not only in this thread , but in life in general , we could debate our views whilst showing respect and appreciation of other people's opinions .
Now if you'll excuse me it's high up here , and I must climb down off my soap box , LOL.
I respect all religeons but have strong feelings AGAINST the organisations (church etc) Faith, believing in something, and 'rules' don't go together.
My question is: why do we want/ need to believe in 'something' after death? Why should that be comforting? Is this life not worth living, just being that?
well then thank jesus, allah and buddha i was asking a WHY question.
Sorry Cate, I missed your original question. I have to confess that after reading an earlier post suggesting that an atheist should believe in god because the consequences are so severe... or something like that- I jumped right to the end.
Ever since I have started teaching my time is too limited to actually read entire threads. Shame really, because differences of opinions are really what makes life interesting.
yes, if you want salvation the only way is through Jesus Christ. that's the message of the Bible. you're absolutely right. but no... God doesn't send you to hell because you don't accept Jesus. you sent yourself to hell.
I don't really understand how some atheists feel about god. I think a lot of believers think he refuse to believe in a god, or deny a god.
The fact is, at least with me, that I have no faith. I don't deny god, I don't refuse to believe in god... It's a lack of faith, an absence of faith.
I can't force myself to believe in something. Does god expect me to do so anyway? Then I wouldn't even want to be a part of his creation, a cult, where you should have blind faith, ask no questions... A god who wants his creation to follow him out of fear?
Anyway, god is a dictator. Anyone who dares question his authority gets tortured, anyone who doesn't agree with his rulership gets thrown in the pits of hell... He's a dictator who's good towards his own people, as long as they believe in him, as they follow him.
So god is the creator of everything, right. This good loving father? Who strikes his children, whom he loves, with famine, hurricanes, floods, diseases... His own children, yes, even the ones who devoted their life to him.
And why does he do it? Well, that's obvious, he works in mysterious ways, he's god he knows all. Don't question it.
God commits the sins he hated. But it's ok, don't lead by example, scare them into following you.
I don't really understand how some atheists feel about god. I think a lot of believers think he refuse to believe in a god, or deny a god.
The fact is, at least with me, that I have no faith. I don't deny god, I don't refuse to believe in god... It's a lack of faith, an absence of faith.
I can't force myself to believe in something. Does god expect me to do so anyway? Then I wouldn't even want to be a part of his creation, a cult, where you should have blind faith, ask no questions... A god who wants his creation to follow him out of fear?
Anyway, god is a dictator. Anyone who dares question his authority gets tortured, anyone who doesn't agree with his rulership gets thrown in the pits of hell... He's a dictator who's good towards his own people, as long as they believe in him, as they follow him.
So god is the creator of everything, right. This good loving father? Who strikes his children, whom he loves, with famine, hurricanes, floods, diseases... His own children, yes, even the ones who devoted their life to him.
And why does he do it? Well, that's obvious, he works in mysterious ways, he's god he knows all. Don't question it.
God commits the sins he hated. But it's ok, don't lead by example, scare them into following you.
i imagine when you make the people, you get to play with them anyway you want.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't really understand how some atheists feel about god. I think a lot of believers think he refuse to believe in a god, or deny a god.
The fact is, at least with me, that I have no faith. I don't deny god, I don't refuse to believe in god... It's a lack of faith, an absence of faith.
I can't force myself to believe in something. Does god expect me to do so anyway? Then I wouldn't even want to be a part of his creation, a cult, where you should have blind faith, ask no questions... A god who wants his creation to follow him out of fear?
Anyway, god is a dictator. Anyone who dares question his authority gets tortured, anyone who doesn't agree with his rulership gets thrown in the pits of hell... He's a dictator who's good towards his own people, as long as they believe in him, as they follow him.
So god is the creator of everything, right. This good loving father? Who strikes his children, whom he loves, with famine, hurricanes, floods, diseases... His own children, yes, even the ones who devoted their life to him.
And why does he do it? Well, that's obvious, he works in mysterious ways, he's god he knows all. Don't question it.
God commits the sins he hated. But it's ok, don't lead by example, scare them into following you.
no. this isn't the God described in the Bible. read the bible for yourself...take the time to read and you'll find that's not what it says.
God's not a dictator. God doesn't send you to hell, punish you for questioning his authority... or whatnot. moses questioned God millions of times... the entire israelites questioned God so many times... God didn't strike them dead... Jonah questioned God even after he saved him from the belly of a fish... and God saved a tree for him to shade him from the heat of the sun...
i can understand where you're coming from but this is an entire misconception that most unbelievers argue against. it's really not an argument for me... i could explain this but there's so much reading involved.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
no... you see the sinful heredity that was passed on from adam and eve.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Nahum 1:2
God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
no. this isn't the God described in the Bible. read the bible for yourself...take the time to read and you'll find that's not what it says.
I have read the bible.
God is a dictator.
edit: Tell me, will I go to hell, according to you? I don't believe god exists, if he exists I think he's the biggest fuck up in the universe, a sadistic dictator and an extreme asshole, and I don't believe Jesus was his son, I'm not even sure Jesus existed anymore.
Hell = suffering for eternity, he's sending me there because I don't believe in him.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Nahum 1:2
God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
?
i think you confuse me more than the bible
what do these scriptures have in relation with what you see in children, especially the second one?
"for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
read it again, this time try to understand it's point of view. start with the epistles of paul... romans particularly... then read his others and look for parallel scriptures... then refer back to the old testament. all this, mind you, while revolving around what you read in the gospels - the focal point.
are you going to hell? that's a question you should ask yourself...
but if you want to insist and say, "well, hey i'm never going to believe in God even if i'm dying so might as well get it out of the way.... will i be going to hell then after i die?" well, i hate to be mr. obvious but i think we both know the scriptures well enough to know what the Bible says about that.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Comments
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
and that is my call is it not? i can not bring myself to believe in something that makes zero sense to me.
i would hardly call it selfishness to choose not to compromise myself in order to believe in something i can not logically believe in, just cause the alternative is an imaginary hell.
i don't think you understand. as an atheist i don't believe there is a hell. naturally i also don't believe there is a heaven. the possible existence(which i don't believe) plays no aprt in how i live my life.
it is not all about what i want. it is all about how i can live my life in order that i can find some peace before i die. if i live my life to the best of my abilities then that is my peace. and if i do that without imposing upon others or hurting them in any way then that shall also be my peace.
who are you living your life for? do you forego all sin? or just the ones convenient for you to do so?
don't tell me if i do not believe in your God that i am going to hell. it is no deterrent to me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how can an atheist want to go to heaven? it is non existent to them.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you're either 100% right or 100% wrong. What a chance to take!
-Enoch Powell
yes tis isn't it?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It depends on what the meaning of "tis" tis.
-Enoch Powell
but when you put it this way, "oh God is such a meany because he'll send you to hell if you don't like him." that's where i'm trying to correct you. the bible never says that. i could be an atheist myself and read the bible and still conclude the same thing that, no, the bible doesn't say it.
yes, if you want salvation the only way is through Jesus Christ. that's the message of the Bible. you're absolutely right. but no... God doesn't send you to hell because you don't accept Jesus. you sent yourself to hell.
it's like this. you commit a crime. you're going to jail. so now the judge says, ok, you don't have a lawyer to back you up, go to jail. if you do have a lawyer and he has proof to back you up, then you don't go to jail. that's how it is with the message of the bible. God is the judge... christ is the lawyer and you are the suspect.
i guess all in all we have a hard time understanding this because God hates sin. he hates it because of what it has caused to his creation. so sin cannot enter the kingdom of heaven... if you have not repented of your sins so that Christ can wash them away you neither can enter. it's basically how it is.
or what meaning i choose to bring to it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
why not a carnival......that's where all the bad people in my belief go.
Anyone want to join my church? Much more fun..and allot less stress.
sometimes think I'm reading a scientific novel on this board......wow
I believe , in God , Jesus and the basic Christian message ; but I respect the right of anyone else to believe or not believe in whatever they choose .
I do have concerns about what "fate" awaits those of us who make the wrong choices , I do hope God is a lot more lenient about who he lets into "heaven" than some biblical passages suggest .
I don't much care for the way some people with religious beliefs try to beat up non-believers with threats of eternal fires . I also don't much care for the mocking nature of some atheists .
I don't pretend to know all the reasons why things are what they are , but I have faith and from that faith I have received what I perceive to be proof of God's existence and love .
I just wish , not only in this thread , but in life in general , we could debate our views whilst showing respect and appreciation of other people's opinions .
Now if you'll excuse me it's high up here , and I must climb down off my soap box , LOL.
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
She always tells me with a big smile that she will be enjoying her time in heaven whilst I am being cooked down below!
The hell/heaven debate for non believers matters not to me- I will not justify my beliefs with a 'what if' scenario.
well then thank jesus, allah and buddha i was asking a WHY question.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I respect all religeons but have strong feelings AGAINST the organisations (church etc) Faith, believing in something, and 'rules' don't go together.
My question is: why do we want/ need to believe in 'something' after death? Why should that be comforting? Is this life not worth living, just being that?
Sorry Cate, I missed your original question. I have to confess that after reading an earlier post suggesting that an atheist should believe in god because the consequences are so severe... or something like that- I jumped right to the end.
Ever since I have started teaching my time is too limited to actually read entire threads. Shame really, because differences of opinions are really what makes life interesting.
I don't really understand how some atheists feel about god. I think a lot of believers think he refuse to believe in a god, or deny a god.
The fact is, at least with me, that I have no faith. I don't deny god, I don't refuse to believe in god... It's a lack of faith, an absence of faith.
I can't force myself to believe in something. Does god expect me to do so anyway? Then I wouldn't even want to be a part of his creation, a cult, where you should have blind faith, ask no questions... A god who wants his creation to follow him out of fear?
Anyway, god is a dictator. Anyone who dares question his authority gets tortured, anyone who doesn't agree with his rulership gets thrown in the pits of hell... He's a dictator who's good towards his own people, as long as they believe in him, as they follow him.
So god is the creator of everything, right. This good loving father? Who strikes his children, whom he loves, with famine, hurricanes, floods, diseases... His own children, yes, even the ones who devoted their life to him.
And why does he do it? Well, that's obvious, he works in mysterious ways, he's god he knows all. Don't question it.
God commits the sins he hated. But it's ok, don't lead by example, scare them into following you.
naděje umírá poslední
clearly.
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
i imagine when you make the people, you get to play with them anyway you want.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That is why children have dolls, so they can pretend to be god.
You know, when I look at some kids playing with their toys, you can really see the sadistic side of god shine in them.
naděje umírá poslední
God's not a dictator. God doesn't send you to hell, punish you for questioning his authority... or whatnot. moses questioned God millions of times... the entire israelites questioned God so many times... God didn't strike them dead... Jonah questioned God even after he saved him from the belly of a fish... and God saved a tree for him to shade him from the heat of the sun...
i can understand where you're coming from but this is an entire misconception that most unbelievers argue against. it's really not an argument for me... i could explain this but there's so much reading involved.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Nahum 1:2
God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
?
naděje umírá poslední
I have read the bible.
God is a dictator.
edit: Tell me, will I go to hell, according to you? I don't believe god exists, if he exists I think he's the biggest fuck up in the universe, a sadistic dictator and an extreme asshole, and I don't believe Jesus was his son, I'm not even sure Jesus existed anymore.
Hell = suffering for eternity, he's sending me there because I don't believe in him.
God puts the dick in dictator.
naděje umírá poslední
what do these scriptures have in relation with what you see in children, especially the second one?
"for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23
passed on through genetics?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
God is a vengeful, sadistic, jealous god. He created man in his image, people are vengeful, sadistic, jealous ...?
naděje umírá poslední
are you going to hell? that's a question you should ask yourself...
but if you want to insist and say, "well, hey i'm never going to believe in God even if i'm dying so might as well get it out of the way.... will i be going to hell then after i die?" well, i hate to be mr. obvious but i think we both know the scriptures well enough to know what the Bible says about that.