why do you believe in God or...

soulsinging

chopitdown wrote:

well it just seems that some get really upset with the thought that God not letting people in to heaven and say that isn't fair. Why should you care, as an atheist? I have no idea.

becos as i said in my post above, i am somewhat appalled by the notion of a tiny god who is more vain than paris hilton and don't see how anyone can say such a god is full of "love." it's an outright contradiction. god loves you so much he can never forgive you for picking the wrong church and will damn you to hell for not spending enough time on your knees worshipping and begging for his forgiveness. how is that love?

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

becos as i said in my post above, i am somewhat offended by the notion of a tiny god who is more vain than paris hilton and don't see how anyone can say such a god is full of "love."

vanity of vanities, all is vanity says Qoheleth

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

vanity of vanities, all is vanity says Qoheleth

way to not even attempt to respond to my point. it's ok though, we all know you cannot becos you know in your heart of hearts im right and it makes no sense.

chopitdown

soulsinging wrote:

if god is so vain and petty and self-serving that he will only allow into heaven those people who spent X number of hours in Y church worshipping him and praising him and stroking his ego, then no, i want no part of heaven. he created flawed humans with limited faculties and then is going to damn them for eternity for making the wrong style of worship choice or being born in the wrong country? not the kinda guy i wanna hang with forever. where does it say that it is impossible to have a humble gratitude for life without the church and religion?

that's why i'm usually very careful in saying that God is the one who decides, not man. I don't think you have to spend a certain number of hours in church or worship Him in any specific way. God knows the hearts of people and that's why he judges. The way some religious people act, I have to agree with you...you'd think they are the ones making the decision

chopitdown

soulsinging wrote:

becos as i said in my post above, i am somewhat appalled by the notion of a tiny god who is more vain than paris hilton and don't see how anyone can say such a god is full of "love." it's an outright contradiction. god loves you so much he can never forgive you for picking the wrong church and will damn you to hell for not spending enough time on your knees worshipping and begging for his forgiveness. how is that love?

more vain than Paris, that's low...at least say more vain the Lohan...but not paris.

see my above post. God is the one who judges. ultimately God makes the decision based on his perfect knowledge.

gue_barium

chopitdown wrote:

more vain than Paris, that's low...at least say more vain the Lohan...but not paris.

see my above post. God is the one who judges. ultimately God makes the decision based on his perfect knowledge.

Lonely is the room in which dreams are forbidden.

soulsinging

chopitdown wrote:

that's why i'm usually very careful in saying that God is the one who decides, not man. I don't think you have to spend a certain number of hours in church or worship Him in any specific way. God knows the hearts of people and that's why he judges. The way some religious people act, I have to agree with you...you'd think they are the ones making the decision

then i think this is the source of the anger you perceived. people are offended when it seems that... oh, let's pull a name out of a hat... corporatewhore is deciding who gets into heaven. they get angry when some religious person tells them they cannot go to heaven becos they do not worship in said person's church. THAT is the source of the anger. that religious people take judgment out of god's hands and coopt it for themselves. i doubt many of these people are strict atheists, but rather more agnostic and get much of their resistance to god from the arrogant and contradictory behavior of some of his followers. i think most of their disbelief is directed towards the church and its teachings, not god himself.

stu gee

chopitdown wrote:

God knows the hearts of people and that's why he judges.

As ive said, im not religious, but i dont dismiss the idea of god at all, anything is possible. And what you said there is why i dont understand how i could end up in the same place as mass murderers. People on here will have to take my word for it but if God really knows me, he knows im not evil!! lol

I love the bit in the simpsons about homer's pleading with god and questioning why, when he is basically a good guy, he has to spend part of his day off hearing about why he is going to hell. lol

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

you know in your heart of hearts im right and it makes no sense.

Psalms would disagree...

In him our hearts rejoice, for we trust in his holy name!

gue_barium

gue_barium wrote:

Lonely is the room in which dreams are forbidden.

Q: That's rather profound.
A: Thank you.
Q: It kind of conjures up an image for me of a prison cell.
A: Sure, sure... I can see that.
Q: Can I quote you?
A: Any time.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

Psalms would disagree...

In him our hearts rejoice, for we trust in his holy name!

Thank you.

I know it isn't the prettiest name in the world, but i'm glad you like it.

nickcat0

stu gee wrote:

As ive said, im not religious, but i dont dismiss the idea of god at all, anything is possible. And what you said there is why i dont understand how i could end up in the same place as mass murderers. People on here will have to take my word for it but if God really knows me, he knows im not evil!! lol

I love the bit in the simpsons about homer's pleading with god and questioning why, when he is basically a good guy, he has to spend part of his day off hearing about why he is going to hell. lol

To answer your question , yes of course I've sinned , do sin and will continue to sin . I just believe that if I try to do my best , acknowledge my errors and ask for forgiveness , then it will be granted .

I like to believe that God does know the difference between "normal people sins" and "Hitler type sins" , but I do believe that God can see into our hearts and knows whether we "deserve" forgiveness .

And yes , that Simpsons bit is very funny .

chopitdown

soulsinging wrote:

then i think this is the source of the anger you perceived. people are offended when it seems that... oh, let's pull a name out of a hat... corporatewhore is deciding who gets into heaven. they get angry when some religious person tells them they cannot go to heaven becos they do not worship in said person's church. THAT is the source of the anger. that religious people take judgment out of god's hands and coopt it for themselves. i doubt many of these people are strict atheists, but rather more agnostic and get much of their resistance to god from the arrogant and contradictory behavior of some of his followers. i think most of their disbelief is directed towards the church and its teachings, not god himself.

I agree THAT is definitely the source of anger. The church and religion are far from perfect and it's well documented that they've used their power for less than noble causes. I honestly think that most people in churches are very sincere and want the best for everyone. there are no perfect people in churches but sometimes arrogance can sneak in and harm people...

Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave...

this isn't the only thing in the bible, but it seems sometimes this is overlooked in a lot of religious circles.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

Psalms would disagree...

In him our hearts rejoice, for we trust in his holy name!

*crickets*

still no answer eh?

nickcat0

My word chopitdown , where were you earlier in the day when I was floundering trying to explain Christian beliefs .
You've summed it all up so eloquently .

I think so much of the problem regarding the admission to heaven and God's view of sin , is that we look at it from a human perspective , and ignore / forget that it is God who's doing the judging and He knows what is truly in our hearts .

soulsinging

chopitdown wrote:

I agree THAT is definitely the source of anger. The church and religion are far from perfect and it's well documented that they've used their power for less than noble causes. I honestly think that most people in churches are very sincere and want the best for everyone. there are no perfect people in churches but sometimes arrogance can sneak in and harm people...

Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave...

this isn't the only thing in the bible, but it seems sometimes this is overlooked in a lot of religious circles.

precisely. on the flipside though, there are a lot of very arrogant atheists who use their belief to build the same condescendingly superior attitude they claim to loathe in religious folk. it goes both ways. it just so happens religious people, by default, are a bit more organized and visible, so they take a lot of heat for it and their abuses get a lot more recognition. the actions of one bad christian will reflect badly on all christians becos people think of the community that fostered the person, whereas the actions of one bad atheist don't becos 1) people usually never know he's an atheist and 2) there's no organized community that someone can look to and say "they fucked up with this guy!"

im with you humility though... i think in general it is something far too lacking in people in general. people just take themselves too damned seriously. a humble atheist and a humble christian are both ok in my book, and an arrogant atheist annoys me just as much as an arrogant christian.

chopitdown

gue_barium wrote:

Q: That's rather profound.
A: Thank you.
Q: It kind of conjures up an image for me of a prison cell.
A: Sure, sure... I can see that.
Q: Can I quote you?
A: Any time.

who is forbidding dreams?

gue_barium

nickcat0 wrote:

To answer your question , yes of course I've sinned , do sin and will continue to sin . I just believe that if I try to do my best , acknowledge my errors and ask for forgiveness , then it will be granted .

I like to believe that God does know the difference between "normal people sins" and "Hitler type sins" , but I do believe that God can see into our hearts and knows whether we "deserve" forgiveness .

And yes , that Simpsons bit is very funny .

No, not really. Only you can see into your own heart. Your challenge, God tells me, is to find someone...

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

*crickets*

still no answer eh?

heh

Job:

I cry out to you, O God, but you do not answer; I stand up, but you merely look at me.

gue_barium

chopitdown wrote:

who is forbidding dreams?

Where is my location?