As ive said, im not religious, but i dont dismiss the idea of god at all, anything is possible. And what you said there is why i dont understand how i could end up in the same place as mass murderers. People on here will have to take my word for it but if God really knows me, he knows im not evil!! lol
I love the bit in the simpsons about homer's pleading with god and questioning why, when he is basically a good guy, he has to spend part of his day off hearing about why he is going to hell. lol
To answer your question , yes of course I've sinned , do sin and will continue to sin . I just believe that if I try to do my best , acknowledge my errors and ask for forgiveness , then it will be granted .
I like to believe that God does know the difference between "normal people sins" and "Hitler type sins" , but I do believe that God can see into our hearts and knows whether we "deserve" forgiveness .
then i think this is the source of the anger you perceived. people are offended when it seems that... oh, let's pull a name out of a hat... corporatewhore is deciding who gets into heaven. they get angry when some religious person tells them they cannot go to heaven becos they do not worship in said person's church. THAT is the source of the anger. that religious people take judgment out of god's hands and coopt it for themselves. i doubt many of these people are strict atheists, but rather more agnostic and get much of their resistance to god from the arrogant and contradictory behavior of some of his followers. i think most of their disbelief is directed towards the church and its teachings, not god himself.
I agree THAT is definitely the source of anger. The church and religion are far from perfect and it's well documented that they've used their power for less than noble causes. I honestly think that most people in churches are very sincere and want the best for everyone. there are no perfect people in churches but sometimes arrogance can sneak in and harm people...
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave...
this isn't the only thing in the bible, but it seems sometimes this is overlooked in a lot of religious circles.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
My word chopitdown , where were you earlier in the day when I was floundering trying to explain Christian beliefs .
You've summed it all up so eloquently .
I think so much of the problem regarding the admission to heaven and God's view of sin , is that we look at it from a human perspective , and ignore / forget that it is God who's doing the judging and He knows what is truly in our hearts .
I agree THAT is definitely the source of anger. The church and religion are far from perfect and it's well documented that they've used their power for less than noble causes. I honestly think that most people in churches are very sincere and want the best for everyone. there are no perfect people in churches but sometimes arrogance can sneak in and harm people...
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave...
this isn't the only thing in the bible, but it seems sometimes this is overlooked in a lot of religious circles.
precisely. on the flipside though, there are a lot of very arrogant atheists who use their belief to build the same condescendingly superior attitude they claim to loathe in religious folk. it goes both ways. it just so happens religious people, by default, are a bit more organized and visible, so they take a lot of heat for it and their abuses get a lot more recognition. the actions of one bad christian will reflect badly on all christians becos people think of the community that fostered the person, whereas the actions of one bad atheist don't becos 1) people usually never know he's an atheist and 2) there's no organized community that someone can look to and say "they fucked up with this guy!"
im with you humility though... i think in general it is something far too lacking in people in general. people just take themselves too damned seriously. a humble atheist and a humble christian are both ok in my book, and an arrogant atheist annoys me just as much as an arrogant christian.
Q: That's rather profound.
A: Thank you.
Q: It kind of conjures up an image for me of a prison cell.
A: Sure, sure... I can see that.
Q: Can I quote you?
A: Any time.
who is forbidding dreams?
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
To answer your question , yes of course I've sinned , do sin and will continue to sin . I just believe that if I try to do my best , acknowledge my errors and ask for forgiveness , then it will be granted .
I like to believe that God does know the difference between "normal people sins" and "Hitler type sins" , but I do believe that God can see into our hearts and knows whether we "deserve" forgiveness .
And yes , that Simpsons bit is very funny .
No, not really. Only you can see into your own heart. Your challenge, God tells me, is to find someone...
precisely. on the flipside though, there are a lot of very arrogant atheists who use their belief to build the same condescendingly superior attitude they claim to loathe in religious folk. it goes both ways. it just so happens religious people, by default, are a bit more organized and visible, so they take a lot of heat for it and their abuses get a lot more recognition.
im with you humility though... i think in general it is something far too lacking in people in general. people just take themselves too damned seriously. a humble atheist and a humble christian are both ok in my book, and an arrogant atheist annoys me just as much as an arrogant christian.
i agree 100%.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
yes it can be. But to use old reliable scapegoat Adolf...I bet he wondered what would happen if he got rid of a whole demographic of people.
No one is saying not to be skeptical of things, but there are times that you make a decision based on information and thinking and different people reach different conclusions.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
yes it can be. But to use old reliable scapegoat Adolf...I bet he wondered what would happen if he got rid of a whole demographic of people.
No one is saying not to be skeptical of things, but there are times that you make a decision based on information and thinking and different people reach different conclusions.
I live in the present tense. As you believe God does. Try it, you might like it.
oxymorons are 2 words.. silent alarm, jumbo shrimp, smart american, things like that...
so to live a good life you must believe in god, and then and only then will heaven await.... yet the amazonian indians who have no knowledge of god yet live a good life will get into heaven due to having led a good life, but that good life cant exist cos they havent acknowledged god?
this religion stuff is confusing and very rulesy... i have no time for either, in fact i'll bail out on this one now and will content myself with sinful living, shagging, boozing, ignoring charity callers to my door, generally taking the piss out of people less fortunate than me... and if theres a god then i've fucked up and i'm going to hell and if there isnt then i've lived a "good life" and can be content that i had fun whilst bible-bashers were out trying to suppress their thoughts of sinful lust by selling cookies at a stall every summer sunday
You speak of things that are comletely relative. Relative to the guy who likes to steal and get in barfights, yeah, the life i lead is pretty"good". Relative to the guy who molests children, the stealing barfighter also leads a pretty "good" life. Relative to the guy who molests and MURDERS kids,... you get the point, i'm sure. Now, for the sake of discussion, when you relate my life to GOD, suddenly it doesn't look so "good" anymore. So the qustion becomes "what makes a good life?" Where do you draw the line? Wherever you draw it, surely, someone else will draw it differently. So, the question, for those who believe (i understand you don't and i'm fine with that), must be where does GOD draw the line? i don't like to cite scripture here as i know that most here don't care to hear it and are completelyy uninfluenced by it, and this is not a conversation about Christanity (at least the op didn't intend it as such), but here is something Christ had to say on the matter:
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (matthew 5)
Now i don't know about you, but though i've never killed anyone, i, to some degree, get angry almost every day, which makes my life, in relation to God, pretty pathetic.
Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
See if 'He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness', where is the problem?
But then again if that is true of everyone, i might be bumping into ian huntly and hitler even if i do make it to heaven. So who actually does end up in hell?
I have sometimes read the bible to try and make more sense of it and have ended up twice as confused.
People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
See if 'He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness', where is the problem?
But then again if that is true of everyone, i might be bumping into ian huntly and hitler even if i do make it to heaven. So who actually does end up in hell?
I have sometimes read the bible to try and make more sense of it and have ended up twice as confused.
What were you looking for in that godforsaken book?
Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.
i think you missed his point, which was that the judgment is up to god and he is fine with that. he is not fine with the judgment being decided by and according to the rules of any one particular religious doctrine. that when you tell him "my rules are the right ones" his response is "says who?" his point was that worshipping at a given church shouldn't or doesn't matter a damn. what matters is god's judgment upon you at death.
hypnosis...brain washed...same diff...any dictionary will tell you.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
Thank you.
I know it isn't the prettiest name in the world, but i'm glad you like it.
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To answer your question , yes of course I've sinned , do sin and will continue to sin . I just believe that if I try to do my best , acknowledge my errors and ask for forgiveness , then it will be granted .
I like to believe that God does know the difference between "normal people sins" and "Hitler type sins" , but I do believe that God can see into our hearts and knows whether we "deserve" forgiveness .
And yes , that Simpsons bit is very funny .
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
I agree THAT is definitely the source of anger. The church and religion are far from perfect and it's well documented that they've used their power for less than noble causes. I honestly think that most people in churches are very sincere and want the best for everyone. there are no perfect people in churches but sometimes arrogance can sneak in and harm people...
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave...
this isn't the only thing in the bible, but it seems sometimes this is overlooked in a lot of religious circles.
*crickets*
still no answer eh?
You've summed it all up so eloquently .
I think so much of the problem regarding the admission to heaven and God's view of sin , is that we look at it from a human perspective , and ignore / forget that it is God who's doing the judging and He knows what is truly in our hearts .
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
precisely. on the flipside though, there are a lot of very arrogant atheists who use their belief to build the same condescendingly superior attitude they claim to loathe in religious folk. it goes both ways. it just so happens religious people, by default, are a bit more organized and visible, so they take a lot of heat for it and their abuses get a lot more recognition. the actions of one bad christian will reflect badly on all christians becos people think of the community that fostered the person, whereas the actions of one bad atheist don't becos 1) people usually never know he's an atheist and 2) there's no organized community that someone can look to and say "they fucked up with this guy!"
im with you humility though... i think in general it is something far too lacking in people in general. people just take themselves too damned seriously. a humble atheist and a humble christian are both ok in my book, and an arrogant atheist annoys me just as much as an arrogant christian.
who is forbidding dreams?
No, not really. Only you can see into your own heart. Your challenge, God tells me, is to find someone...
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heh
Job:
I cry out to you, O God, but you do not answer; I stand up, but you merely look at me.
-Enoch Powell
Where is my location?
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i agree 100%.
I remember that day. Job had a hangover. He looked like shit.
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i often wonder if you know the answer to that
IMPOSSIBLE you're going to burn in hell for eternity.
-Enoch Powell
Wonder can be a good thing.
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yes it can be. But to use old reliable scapegoat Adolf...I bet he wondered what would happen if he got rid of a whole demographic of people.
No one is saying not to be skeptical of things, but there are times that you make a decision based on information and thinking and different people reach different conclusions.
I live in the present tense. As you believe God does. Try it, you might like it.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I thought you lived in wonderland. Oops.
-Enoch Powell
You speak of things that are comletely relative. Relative to the guy who likes to steal and get in barfights, yeah, the life i lead is pretty"good". Relative to the guy who molests children, the stealing barfighter also leads a pretty "good" life. Relative to the guy who molests and MURDERS kids,... you get the point, i'm sure. Now, for the sake of discussion, when you relate my life to GOD, suddenly it doesn't look so "good" anymore. So the qustion becomes "what makes a good life?" Where do you draw the line? Wherever you draw it, surely, someone else will draw it differently. So, the question, for those who believe (i understand you don't and i'm fine with that), must be where does GOD draw the line? i don't like to cite scripture here as i know that most here don't care to hear it and are completelyy uninfluenced by it, and this is not a conversation about Christanity (at least the op didn't intend it as such), but here is something Christ had to say on the matter:
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (matthew 5)
Now i don't know about you, but though i've never killed anyone, i, to some degree, get angry almost every day, which makes my life, in relation to God, pretty pathetic.
Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.
thanks for the laughs
But then again if that is true of everyone, i might be bumping into ian huntly and hitler even if i do make it to heaven. So who actually does end up in hell?
I have sometimes read the bible to try and make more sense of it and have ended up twice as confused.
Thanks be to God, wouldn't you say?
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Lol.
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What were you looking for in that godforsaken book?
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nope, i was referring to you (whom is not God)
i think you missed his point, which was that the judgment is up to god and he is fine with that. he is not fine with the judgment being decided by and according to the rules of any one particular religious doctrine. that when you tell him "my rules are the right ones" his response is "says who?" his point was that worshipping at a given church shouldn't or doesn't matter a damn. what matters is god's judgment upon you at death.
How do you know that I'm not?
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i'll just go with the odds.
So then, you're saying there's a chance...i read ya.
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hypnosis...brain washed...same diff...any dictionary will tell you.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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