You speak of things that are comletely relative. Relative to the guy who likes to steal and get in barfights, yeah, the life i lead is pretty"good". Relative to the guy who molests children, the stealing barfighter also leads a pretty "good" life. Relative to the guy who molests and MURDERS kids,... you get the point, i'm sure. Now, for the sake of discussion, when you relate my life to GOD, suddenly it doesn't look so "good" anymore. So the qustion becomes "what makes a good life?" Where do you draw the line? Wherever you draw it, surely, someone else will draw it differently. So, the question, for those who believe (i understand you don't and i'm fine with that), must be where does GOD draw the line? i don't like to cite scripture here as i know that most here don't care to hear it and are completelyy uninfluenced by it, and this is not a conversation about Christanity (at least the op didn't intend it as such), but here is something Christ had to say on the matter:
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (matthew 5)
Now i don't know about you, but though i've never killed anyone, i, to some degree, get angry almost every day, which makes my life, in relation to God, pretty pathetic.
Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.
Religion and the belief in God (s) are a simple survival tactics used by humans to rationalize and give hope. Bad part, some use this aspect as well as means of control, organized religions, leaders. I do understand why humans have this need to explain the unexplanable as well as the need to be able to ask for help........and I don't fault anyone for practicing....more power to you.....just keep it to yourself.
It makes no sense to me to assume life came from nothing. Creationism is the only thing that makes sense to me. Someone/something had to do this. Although believing in God means you have to believe HE came from nothing.
As for all the comments on organized religion, you have to find one that you feel is true or else create your own.
Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?
how do you know which way is the right way he decreed? was he lying to buddhists? did muslims make their practices up? is mormonism a huge scam to bang more chicks?
It makes no sense to me to assume life came from nothing. Creationism is the only thing that makes sense to me. Someone/something had to do this. Although believing in God means you have to believe HE came from nothing.
As for all the comments on organized religion, you have to find one that you feel is true or else create your own.
Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?
You speak of things that are comletely relative. Relative to the guy who likes to steal and get in barfights, yeah, the life i lead is pretty"good". Relative to the guy who molests children, the stealing barfighter also leads a pretty "good" life. Relative to the guy who molests and MURDERS kids,... you get the point, i'm sure. Now, for the sake of discussion, when you relate my life to GOD, suddenly it doesn't look so "good" anymore. So the qustion becomes "what makes a good life?" Where do you draw the line? Wherever you draw it, surely, someone else will draw it differently. So, the question, for those who believe (i understand you don't and i'm fine with that), must be where does GOD draw the line? i don't like to cite scripture here as i know that most here don't care to hear it and are completelyy uninfluenced by it, and this is not a conversation about Christanity (at least the op didn't intend it as such), but here is something Christ had to say on the matter:
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (matthew 5)
Now i don't know about you, but though i've never killed anyone, i, to some degree, get angry almost every day, which makes my life, in relation to God, pretty pathetic.
Long story short, your "good life" philosophical argument against a theistic worldview doesn't hold water.
Great point. For those of us who believe in him, God has the authority to set the rules and we have the responsibility to live by them.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?
The loving father:
Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man... living in the sky...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever till the end of time...but he loves you
But seriously, if your kids go against your wil and disobey you, do you torture them? Do make them suffer?
how do you know which way is the right way he decreed? was he lying to buddhists? did muslims make their practices up? is mormonism a huge scam to bang more chicks?
I know what I personally believe. You have to know what you personally believe. If you have a belief then all other religions or interpretations are wrong because you have decided which is right to you.
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
I know what I personally believe. You have to know what you personally believe. If you have a belief then all other religions or interpretations are wrong because you have decided which is right to you.
au contraire. i believe all religions are all right and all wrong. i don't believe god has rules or checklists. so all religions are right in trying to set standards for their believers, but wrong in claiming that anyone who doesn't follow their standards is doomed.
I know what I personally believe. You have to know what you personally believe. If you have a belief then all other religions or interpretations are wrong because you have decided which is right to you.
So you do realize that if you picked the wrong this wonderful loving god will send you to hell right, no matter how good you tried to live your life?
I posted quite a bit in this thread already and cant be bothered getting right into it again right now as im a bit busy but ill just say soulsinging speaks the truth in my opinion.
People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
becos as i said in my post above, i am somewhat appalled by the notion of a tiny god who is more vain than paris hilton and don't see how anyone can say such a god is full of "love." it's an outright contradiction. god loves you so much he can never forgive you for picking the wrong church and will damn you to hell for not spending enough time on your knees worshipping and begging for his forgiveness. how is that love?
wow... this never gets old....
it's not because God doesn't want us to get "into heaven" simply because we don't believe. it's because of our own "unbelief" that we don't get into heaven. heaven is open for everybody... although i don't think heaven is a literal place in x time or y place. i think heaven is open already for us all here at this moment and it's a matter of you changing your beliefs. i explained that to you already a long time ago.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
it's not because God doesn't want us to get "into heaven" simply because we don't believe. it's because of our own "unbelief" that we don't get into heaven. heaven is open for everybody... although i don't think heaven is a literal place in x time or y place. i think heaven is open already for us all here at this moment and it's a matter of you changing your beliefs. i explained that to you already a long time ago.
me changing my beliefs to what? yours? why should i have to change? why can't you change yours?
the point is we can't have access if we don't believe....
God, or the biblical God, doesn't interfere with our choices so why would he force us into heaven if we don't wanna believe?
that's what im saying. i do believe in god. i just believe in a god who is vastly different from the christian one. now, if the christians are right, and i show up at the pearly gates and god is asking me why i wasnt down with jesus, ill say it didnt make sense to me and i found a stronger faith in my own spiritual experiences. i will admit i was wrong though and if that isn't good enough, then it is a god i want no part of and im perfectly happy rotting in hell. i prefer that to spending eternity with a god who is as vain as paris hilton and cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion.
that's what im saying. i do believe in god. i just believe in a god who is vastly different from the christian one. now, if the christians are right, and i show up at the pearly gates and god is asking me why i wasnt down with jesus, ill say it didnt make sense to me and i found a stronger faith in my own spiritual experiences. i will admit i was wrong though and if that isn't good enough, then it is a god i want no part of and im perfectly happy rotting in hell. i prefer that to spending eternity with a god who is as vain as paris hilton and cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion.
Life is a miracle. Creation is a miracle. These things could not be present without goodness in the world. On the other hand, the world could exist without goodness, logically speaking. But, it exists WITH it. That is the work of God in our daily lives.
In my view, God is the first cause and all creation was brought about because of His actions.
If you are an atheist but God exists, you will spend eternity in hell because you had the opportunity to believe. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, all you did was give up a little bit of your time to worship God and forego sin. What atheism really comes down to is selfishness - it's all about what I want.
eh! so call me selfish! :rolleyes: I had kinda hoped that we wouldn't be put through hell here on this thread having to listen to your loopy theories and fire and brimstone.
eh! so call me selfish! :rolleyes: I had kinda hoped that we wouldn't be put through hell here on this thread having to listen to your loopy theories and fire and brimstone.
dont let it get to ya. if ya dont like his sermons, go to the sex thread and read about his love of premarital intercourse. it's a nice laugh to see the open hypocrisy.
eh! so call me selfish! :rolleyes: I had kinda hoped that we wouldn't be put through hell here on this thread having to listen to your loopy theories and fire and brimstone.
Yer mom is loopy
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
that's what im saying. i do believe in god. i just believe in a god who is vastly different from the christian one. now, if the christians are right, and i show up at the pearly gates and god is asking me why i wasnt down with jesus, ill say it didnt make sense to me and i found a stronger faith in my own spiritual experiences. i will admit i was wrong though and if that isn't good enough, then it is a god i want no part of and im perfectly happy rotting in hell. i prefer that to spending eternity with a god who is as vain as paris hilton and cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion.
ok... you believe in god, just not the biblical one. no problem. i mean, if you'd rather rot in hell, as you say, and you've seemed to find stronger spiritual experiences. that's perfectly understandable in your point of view.
the funny thing is the biblical God isn't such a dictator as you view it... although if that's how you view it and don't want to hear anymore of it that's ok too. but still you're not understanding what i'm telling you.... "cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion" he's doing that right now and has been doing that since the beginning of time. abraham, a pagan. paul, an executioner. my father, nephew of a voodoo witch. that's where you're wrong, he does forgive for picking other
"spiritual devotions".
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
dont let it get to ya. if ya dont like his sermons, go to the sex thread and read about his love of premarital intercourse. it's a nice laugh to see the open hypocrisy.
i always thought corporatewhore was a girl
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
ok... you believe in god, just not the biblical one. no problem. i mean, if you'd rather rot in hell, as you say, and you've seemed to find stronger spiritual experiences. that's perfectly understandable in your point of view.
the funny thing is the biblical God isn't such a dictator as you view it... although if that's how you view it and don't want to hear anymore of it that's ok too. but still you're not understanding what i'm telling you.... "cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion" he's doing that right now and has been doing that since the beginning of time. abraham, a pagan. paul, an executioner. my father, nephew of a voodoo witch. that's where you're wrong, he does forgive for picking other
"spiritual devotions".
but only if they change their mind before they die? i dont view the christian god as anything other than what im told he is. now, if christians tell me that i can only go to heaven if i accept jesus, the bible, and all accompanying doctrines BEFORE i die... how is that any different from what i have been saying? you choose wrong, and you go to hell.
otherwise, it is as i said, i can worship whatever and however i want now as long as it is honest and sincere and then god will judge me on those merits. under that system, you don't have to be christian to go to heaven.
so do you or don't you? if you do, then your argument is deceptive, becos god IS punishing you for choosing wrong. if you don't then what does it matter what faith you use to express your love of god? it's only a matter of what works for you.
dont let it get to ya. if ya dont like his sermons, go to the sex thread and read about his love of premarital intercourse. it's a nice laugh to see the open hypocrisy.
eh! hehe! Shoulda left well alone. The kids got a lot of life to get through yet. Never know he might actually change his mind about a few things!
Of course if he doesn't that wouldn't surprise me either.
that's what im saying. i do believe in god. i just believe in a god who is vastly different from the christian one. now, if the christians are right, and i show up at the pearly gates and god is asking me why i wasnt down with jesus, ill say it didnt make sense to me and i found a stronger faith in my own spiritual experiences. i will admit i was wrong though and if that isn't good enough, then it is a god i want no part of and im perfectly happy rotting in hell. i prefer that to spending eternity with a god who is as vain as paris hilton and cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion.
Comments
Listen, brother.
Listen to some music after work.
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somehow, i don't think you do.
But, I did.
Too late, mushterbate.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
As for all the comments on organized religion, you have to find one that you feel is true or else create your own.
Although if you believe in the concept of God and creation, wouldn't you think that He has a right to be worshiped in a way he decrees? When you think of worship, think of reverence or respect. Think of God as the parent and we as his children. Don't you expect your children to give this to you as the parent? Why wouldn't God as the bringer of life deserve this on a grander scale?
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
how do you know which way is the right way he decreed? was he lying to buddhists? did muslims make their practices up? is mormonism a huge scam to bang more chicks?
The child is the father of the man.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Great point. For those of us who believe in him, God has the authority to set the rules and we have the responsibility to live by them.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
The loving father:
Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it, religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man... living in the sky...who watches every thing you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten special things that he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry for ever and ever till the end of time...but he loves you
But seriously, if your kids go against your wil and disobey you, do you torture them? Do make them suffer?
naděje umírá poslední
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
but whose rules are the right ones? there are hundreds of religions each claiming they got their rules from god. who's right?
au contraire. i believe all religions are all right and all wrong. i don't believe god has rules or checklists. so all religions are right in trying to set standards for their believers, but wrong in claiming that anyone who doesn't follow their standards is doomed.
So you do realize that if you picked the wrong this wonderful loving god will send you to hell right, no matter how good you tried to live your life?
You'll be there with Gandhi and Hitler.
naděje umírá poslední
No, because in my chosen belief, there is no hell. So therefore I won't be going there.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
Actually if your chosen belief is wrong and the right belief has a hell, you're going there.
naděje umírá poslední
it's not because God doesn't want us to get "into heaven" simply because we don't believe. it's because of our own "unbelief" that we don't get into heaven. heaven is open for everybody... although i don't think heaven is a literal place in x time or y place. i think heaven is open already for us all here at this moment and it's a matter of you changing your beliefs. i explained that to you already a long time ago.
me changing my beliefs to what? yours? why should i have to change? why can't you change yours?
the point is we can't have access if we don't believe....
God, or the biblical God, doesn't interfere with our choices so why would he force us into heaven if we don't wanna believe?
that's what im saying. i do believe in god. i just believe in a god who is vastly different from the christian one. now, if the christians are right, and i show up at the pearly gates and god is asking me why i wasnt down with jesus, ill say it didnt make sense to me and i found a stronger faith in my own spiritual experiences. i will admit i was wrong though and if that isn't good enough, then it is a god i want no part of and im perfectly happy rotting in hell. i prefer that to spending eternity with a god who is as vain as paris hilton and cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion.
amen....;)
eh! so call me selfish! :rolleyes: I had kinda hoped that we wouldn't be put through hell here on this thread having to listen to your loopy theories and fire and brimstone.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
dont let it get to ya. if ya dont like his sermons, go to the sex thread and read about his love of premarital intercourse. it's a nice laugh to see the open hypocrisy.
-Enoch Powell
the funny thing is the biblical God isn't such a dictator as you view it... although if that's how you view it and don't want to hear anymore of it that's ok too. but still you're not understanding what i'm telling you.... "cannot forgive anyone for picking the wrong manner of expressing their devotion" he's doing that right now and has been doing that since the beginning of time. abraham, a pagan. paul, an executioner. my father, nephew of a voodoo witch. that's where you're wrong, he does forgive for picking other
"spiritual devotions".
but only if they change their mind before they die? i dont view the christian god as anything other than what im told he is. now, if christians tell me that i can only go to heaven if i accept jesus, the bible, and all accompanying doctrines BEFORE i die... how is that any different from what i have been saying? you choose wrong, and you go to hell.
otherwise, it is as i said, i can worship whatever and however i want now as long as it is honest and sincere and then god will judge me on those merits. under that system, you don't have to be christian to go to heaven.
so do you or don't you? if you do, then your argument is deceptive, becos god IS punishing you for choosing wrong. if you don't then what does it matter what faith you use to express your love of god? it's only a matter of what works for you.
eh! hehe!
Of course if he doesn't that wouldn't surprise me either.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Your point oh holier than thou? :rolleyes:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well put. This nails it for me as well.
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