why do you believe in God or...

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  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    rgambs said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    1 God.  I tried to casually sumerise it up above.  Probably not the right thing for me to do rgambs. 
    Here they are
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV
    The Ten Commandments are just the foundation for good living.  The Bible deals with the issues of child molestation, rape & murder just not there.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    Of course it does, if by "deals with" you mean "openly endorses".  The Bible openly endorses child rape and slavery.  Period. 
    Full stop.
    End of story.
    Prove it.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    edited December 2019
    for rape murder and child molestation the God of the Bible calls for capital punishment don't tell me that it endorses it in any way shape or form You know we've been all through this at nausea in the concept of God thread.
    Round and round we go.
    To each his own believe what you want.

    Post edited by RYME on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,379
    the bible is pure fiction. humans had morality prior to it being written. it was only written as a means to control. nothing more. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

    ISO: LET ME SLEEP XMAS SINGLE 1991
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,229
    edited December 2019
    RYME said:
    for rape murder and child molestation the God of the Bible calls for capital punishment don't tell me that it endorses it in any way shape or form You know we've been all through this at nausea in the concept of God thread.
    Round and round we go.
    To each his own believe what you want.

    So the all powerful god calls for capital punishment yet allows it to happen?  How powerful is that?  

    He either isn't all powerful or he is and doesn't do anything about it.

    Not interested
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,543
    edited December 2019
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,229
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,379
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    my brother says animals don't have souls. god gave humans consciousness and therefore a soul to serve him, and he gave animals to serve us. 

    I think the theory goes that we will see all our loved ones in heaven, but not in the same earthly context you mean here. we may or may not even have earthly memories, only that our souls were attached and it isn't like we'll all sitting around chatting like we are here. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

    ISO: LET ME SLEEP XMAS SINGLE 1991
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,229
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    my brother says animals don't have souls. god gave humans consciousness and therefore a soul to serve him, and he gave animals to serve us. 

    I think the theory goes that we will see all our loved ones in heaven, but not in the same earthly context you mean here. we may or may not even have earthly memories, only that our souls were attached and it isn't like we'll all sitting around chatting like we are here. 
    well that's not what my pamphlet said....it was a nice summer day with carnivores strolling with humans and not eating them
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,379
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    two things:

    1) when my wife and I were first married, we got into a discussion (fight) about me not going to church with her family on important christian holidays (I did it for a while just to not rock the boat, but then I said "fuck it"). Her take was "what do you care? you don't believe in anything". That's how she was taught. That just because I don't believe in a god that I don't have any beliefs at all. That's the arrogance of the religious community; the absence of religion = the absence of belief/position. 

    to quote Josh Homme/QOTSA: My God Is The Sun

    2) the existence of hell depends on the specific religion. some christians believe in it, some don't. but I don't think most christians consider it "winning" if they end up in heaven and the rest of us end up in hell. that's why they try to convert us, so we can be in heaven with them. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

    ISO: LET ME SLEEP XMAS SINGLE 1991
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 11,237
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.
    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.

    I personally am in the camp of thinking there is nothing after death. If I understand you here, you’re saying that it’s either nothing or the Christian god. Why would you assume that if there is a god, then it’s the god as conceptualized by Christians? Why do the Christians “win”?  Given all the many faiths that have been espoused since the beginning of humanity, and all their variance, if there is a god I don’t know why anyone would assume it would be of the Christian flavour. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,379
    and I have never met one christian (including my wife) who will admit that 90% of christian theology was lifted from past religions. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

    ISO: LET ME SLEEP XMAS SINGLE 1991
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    No I misspelled mystery.
    Problems with autocorrect I guess.
    Misery was not the word I wanted.  So that assumption is wrong.
    No I was talking about the Mystery Train of Life.
    Who was right and who was wrong we shall all find out one of these days is all I was saying, nothing deeper than that.  I'm not judging people to hell this is getting ridiculous.
    * the argument as to whether there is a God or not a god  was my only premise for a win-lose right wrong had nothing to do with the here and after.  You assume way too much about me.
    I judge no one.

    I cannot answer the what if scenarios.

    Its interesting to me that so many seculars atheists and agnostics here, want to talk about God.  They want to talk about something they don't believe exist.
    There are multiple topics here where God is the subject.
    *The concept of God
    *Why do you believe in God?
    * probably a few more that I don't know about.
     If people are so certain that there is no God why do people keep bringing it up and talking about it?
    To talk with other non-believers?
    Looking for reassurance from like-minded individuals?  I'm not being flip,
    It's been said by many people in these threads that the Bible is a book of fairy tales and God is just a figment of people's imagination
    I don't understand why so much passion from people about something that they think doesn't exist.


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,379
    RYME said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    No I misspelled mystery.
    Problems with autocorrect I guess.
    Misery was not the word I wanted.  So that assumption is wrong.
    No I was talking about the Mystery Train of Life.
    Who was right and who was wrong we shall all find out one of these days is all I was saying, nothing deeper than that.  I'm not judging people to hell this is getting ridiculous.
    * the argument as to whether there is a God or not a god  was my only premise for a win-lose right wrong had nothing to do with the here and after.  You assume way too much about me.
    I judge no one.

    I cannot answer the what if scenarios.

    Its interesting to me that so many seculars atheists and agnostics here, want to talk about God.  They want to talk about something they don't believe exist.
    There are multiple topics here where God is the subject.
    *The concept of God
    *Why do you believe in God?
    * probably a few more that I don't know about.
     If people are so certain that there is no God why do people keep bringing it up and talking about it?
    To talk with other non-believers?
    Looking for reassurance from like-minded individuals?  I'm not being flip,
    It's been said by many people in these threads that the Bible is a book of fairy tales and God is just a figment of people's imagination
    I don't understand why so much passion from people about something that they think doesn't exist.


    my thread "the concept of god" was not intended to be a thread about the christian god. then I got told that I wasn't allowed to separate the two. LOL. 

    just because I think the bible is fiction, does not mean I think god isn't possible. I'm agnostic (lean atheist). I think the bible was written by men as a means to control people. I don't believe any deity had any hand (figurative or literal) in its conception or writing. 

    Do I believe jesus was real? I believe it's entirely possible he was a real person, yes. was he immaculately conceived? No. did he resurrect? no. 

    I think people talk about it because it's such a huge part of our collective culture and has been for hundreds of years. most people who start threads like these are honestly looking for discussion, not to throw anything in anyone else's face or to mock anyone. but it inevitably always turns into that. the reason? there are so many people that have been negatively affected in some way over their life (or know someone who has been) that it stirs up anger or resentment or both, and it comes out as anger or mocking towards those that believe. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
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    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

    ISO: LET ME SLEEP XMAS SINGLE 1991
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,154
    RYME said:
    rgambs said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    brianlux said:
    RYME said:
    Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
    To each his or her own.
    But There is a Black & White answer.
    One of these days we will all find out.


    I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

    I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.
    Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
    But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

    If that happens, RYME, so be it.  And if it happens, I'll have a lot of explaining to do.  My best guess is that the afterlife is whatever radio waves emanate out into the universe from my brain.  A good reason to have more good thoughts than bad!
    Well I think you know that I believe in the God of the 10 Commandments.
    1 God.  I tried to casually sumerise it up above.  Probably not the right thing for me to do rgambs. 
    Here they are
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV
    The Ten Commandments are just the foundation for good living.  The Bible deals with the issues of child molestation, rape & murder just not there.
    Even if you don't believe in any God.  I think everybody tried to obey the Ten commandments, God or No God the world would be a much place.
    Of course it does, if by "deals with" you mean "openly endorses".  The Bible openly endorses child rape and slavery.  Period. 
    Full stop.
    End of story.
    Prove it.
    "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

    "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again." Exodus 21: 7-8

    "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.  Numbers 23: 17-18


    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,386
    RYME said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    No I misspelled mystery.
    Problems with autocorrect I guess.
    Misery was not the word I wanted.  So that assumption is wrong.
    No I was talking about the Mystery Train of Life.
    Who was right and who was wrong we shall all find out one of these days is all I was saying, nothing deeper than that.  I'm not judging people to hell this is getting ridiculous.
    * the argument as to whether there is a God or not a god  was my only premise for a win-lose right wrong had nothing to do with the here and after.  You assume way too much about me.
    I judge no one.

    I cannot answer the what if scenarios.

    Its interesting to me that so many seculars atheists and agnostics here, want to talk about God.  They want to talk about something they don't believe exist.
    There are multiple topics here where God is the subject.
    *The concept of God
    *Why do you believe in God?
    * probably a few more that I don't know about.
     If people are so certain that there is no God why do people keep bringing it up and talking about it?
    To talk with other non-believers?
    Looking for reassurance from like-minded individuals?  I'm not being flip,
    It's been said by many people in these threads that the Bible is a book of fairy tales and God is just a figment of people's imagination
    I don't understand why so much passion from people about something that they think doesn't exist.



    I don't know if God exists or not, RYME.  That there is life at all in the universe- that there is a universe itself seems pretty amazing to me.  But how all that came about, despite some scientific theories, still seems very mysterious to me.  But one of the main reasons I like to talk about it and why I think it is important is because the way so many people hold to their strong beliefs (not meaning to say "you", just humans in general) has had a major impact on societal and international relations including (and often causing) war.  One of the main reasons I support and profess the notion that it is all a big mystery is that if people would accept the (what I believe is) rational viewpoint that we don't if there is a god, there would be much less strife, killing, war, arguing, etc. among people.  Since every set of beliefs within every religious sect is based on faith, supposition, stories, doctrine and/or dogma rather than empirical knowledge, the result is, far too often, conflict.  I think we could resolve a lot of that conflict by being more skeptical of these beliefs and more willing to accept that there are some things we just don't know or understand.  My intention is not to offend or argue, but rather to voice my thoughts and seek a way to resolve unnecessary conflict.

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,229
    RYME said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    No I misspelled mystery.
    Problems with autocorrect I guess.
    Misery was not the word I wanted.  So that assumption is wrong.
    No I was talking about the Mystery Train of Life.
    Who was right and who was wrong we shall all find out one of these days is all I was saying, nothing deeper than that.  I'm not judging people to hell this is getting ridiculous.
    * the argument as to whether there is a God or not a god  was my only premise for a win-lose right wrong had nothing to do with the here and after.  You assume way too much about me.
    I judge no one.

    I cannot answer the what if scenarios.

    Its interesting to me that so many seculars atheists and agnostics here, want to talk about God.  They want to talk about something they don't believe exist.
    There are multiple topics here where God is the subject.
    *The concept of God
    *Why do you believe in God?
    * probably a few more that I don't know about.
     If people are so certain that there is no God why do people keep bringing it up and talking about it?
    To talk with other non-believers?
    Looking for reassurance from like-minded individuals?  I'm not being flip,
    It's been said by many people in these threads that the Bible is a book of fairy tales and God is just a figment of people's imagination
    I don't understand why so much passion from people about something that they think doesn't exist.


    If you posted about believing in blue monkeys living on the moon we would likely question you about that.  Basically the same thing.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
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  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    edited December 2019
    RYME said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    No I misspelled mystery.
    Problems with autocorrect I guess.
    Misery was not the word I wanted.  So that assumption is wrong.
    No I was talking about the Mystery Train of Life.
    Who was right and who was wrong we shall all find out one of these days is all I was saying, nothing deeper than that.  I'm not judging people to hell this is getting ridiculous.
    * the argument as to whether there is a God or not a god  was my only premise for a win-lose right wrong had nothing to do with the here and after.  You assume way too much about me.
    I judge no one.

    I cannot answer the what if scenarios.

    Its interesting to me that so many seculars atheists and agnostics here, want to talk about God.  They want to talk about something they don't believe exist.
    There are multiple topics here where God is the subject.
    *The concept of God
    *Why do you believe in God?
    * probably a few more that I don't know about.
     If people are so certain that there is no God why do people keep bringing it up and talking about it?
    To talk with other non-believers?
    Looking for reassurance from like-minded individuals?  I'm not being flip,
    It's been said by many people in these threads that the Bible is a book of fairy tales and God is just a figment of people's imagination
    I don't understand why so much passion from people about something that they think doesn't exist.


    If you posted about believing in blue monkeys living on the moon we would likely question you about that.  Basically the same thing.

    What is the title of this thread?
    Well let's create a new thread then,
    The Concept of Blue Monkeys On The Moon
    Oh and if you say that one's belief in God is the same as believing that there are blue monkeys on the moon, again we shall have an answer one of these days.  
    Post edited by RYME on
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,229
    RYME said:
    RYME said:
    OnWis97 said:
    RYME said:
    And so if you die and then YOU, hear nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, black space for eternity,,, the  seculars and atheists are correct.  They win.  We are all gone.

    BUT, If we all get to the other side & our spirits&souls are fully conscious and fully aware of whats going on & where we are, and GOD Himself is standing before us asking each individual some very serious questions,,,, the Christians are right & we win!! Win what?  The Mistery Train Game!!
    Thanks for playing,,, enjoy the ride... B)
    I can't wait for the results, I think I'm going to ace this test, & I hope you all do too.
    (Agnostic here, which means I don't really feel like I know anything).

    First, I'm curious about your misspelled word, "Mistery."  I first took it to by "Mystery."  But as I was writing the below, it occured to me that it was supposed to be "Misery."

    I actually take exception with this for a couple of reasons.  If the atheists are correct they "win."  I dunno...to me it's not about winning.  But whatever.  My main beef is the "Christians win" scenario.  What you seem to be implying (and you're being a bit vague, so correct me if I am wrong) is eternal damnation for the rest of us.  It seems less than holy or godly for Christians to be high-fiving each other about the "win" and the rest of us having the ultimate "misery" for eternity.  

    When I point out that I'm an agnostic, people sometimes hit me with what they believe is a trump card: "you have no faith."  But I do.  I have faith that whatever the truth is, whatever/whoever is right (and wrong), the "wrong" ones don't spend an eternity in hell (it's literally the only religious-based faith I have). To me that's a messed up part of that particular religion and the reason that if I ever do need spiritual/religious guidance (unlikely), I won't be shopping down the Christianity aisle.  I can't prove that "being wrong" doesn't result in eternal damnation any more than you can prove your faith to me.  It's just something I believe isn't true.  And if it is, maybe all the high-fivers have to take a detour when they hit the gates. I just can't imagine I'm going to be sent to hell because I was wrong...and that I'm going to see great people there like Gandhi. But then again, he'll probably be in solitary.

    Edit: Someone correct me if I am wrong...but I THINK those who are wrong go to hell, right?  I've heard that disputed, but my guess is that's just political correctness/softballing in trying to reach the masses.
    Well said....

    I remember (as a kid in church) wondering if dogs and cats went to heaven.  My dad was a vet and I was at his office a lot so that was probably what started my questioning of faith.  Dogs don't go to church, don't have a bible, etc. They are animals (just like humans) so why would we go to heaven and they wouldn't?  I remember getting handouts from Jehovah's Witnesses (or maybe Mormon's?) that depicted scenes in heaven where people were having picnics and lions and bears were sitting around with smiles on their faces.  Odd.

    I have posed this question here before and never received a good answer.  One thing I have always wondered about heaven is this...

    Say a married couple are rather religious and one spouse dies.  For this example let's assume the male dies.  Spouse assumes he is in heaven waiting for her right?  Let's say that, unbeknownst to spouse, husband was having an affair.  The affair was to the point where he was going to leave his wife and marry his new squeeze but he dies before that happens.  The girlfriend assumes boyfriend will meet her in heaven right?  Let's say girlfriend dies before spouse.  Who does he hook up with in heaven?  Does spouse make it to heaven and encounters the sight of her husband and girlfriend?  How does that work in heaven?
    No I misspelled mystery.
    Problems with autocorrect I guess.
    Misery was not the word I wanted.  So that assumption is wrong.
    No I was talking about the Mystery Train of Life.
    Who was right and who was wrong we shall all find out one of these days is all I was saying, nothing deeper than that.  I'm not judging people to hell this is getting ridiculous.
    * the argument as to whether there is a God or not a god  was my only premise for a win-lose right wrong had nothing to do with the here and after.  You assume way too much about me.
    I judge no one.

    I cannot answer the what if scenarios.

    Its interesting to me that so many seculars atheists and agnostics here, want to talk about God.  They want to talk about something they don't believe exist.
    There are multiple topics here where God is the subject.
    *The concept of God
    *Why do you believe in God?
    * probably a few more that I don't know about.
     If people are so certain that there is no God why do people keep bringing it up and talking about it?
    To talk with other non-believers?
    Looking for reassurance from like-minded individuals?  I'm not being flip,
    It's been said by many people in these threads that the Bible is a book of fairy tales and God is just a figment of people's imagination
    I don't understand why so much passion from people about something that they think doesn't exist.


    If you posted about believing in blue monkeys living on the moon we would likely question you about that.  Basically the same thing.

    What is the title of this thread?
    Well let's create a new thread then,
    The Concept of Blue Monkeys On The Moon
    Not necessary....it's basically the same

    How many gods do you believe in?  Why don't you believe in all the others?
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 21,610
    Ishmael changed my way of thinking, and of man's place in this world.

    Me, I'm a fence-sitter.  I don't know shit about what's to come, and know enough to know that.

    Faith, or the lack of it, shouldn't cause arguments.  Winning, to me, is about how we live, not by what might be after we're dead.

    And on that note, helloooo, George!

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,379
    hedonist said:
    Ishmael changed my way of thinking, and of man's place in this world.

    Me, I'm a fence-sitter.  I don't know shit about what's to come, and know enough to know that.

    Faith, or the lack of it, shouldn't cause arguments.  Winning, to me, is about how we live, not by what might be after we're dead.

    And on that note, helloooo, George!

    I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, hedo: I don't know shit about what's to come, and know enough to know that.

    in all fairness to RYME, I think he was just making a joke about winning. I don't honestly believe he actually believes that. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

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  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 21,610
    Yup, I believe his heart's in the right place.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 10,229
    I ended up at this....if there is a god I'm not going to worry because I am a good person and I teach my children to be good people.  I am a better person ethically and morally than more than a few diehard "christians" that I know.  If that earns me a spot in hell then so be it.

    I had a client tell me once that he considered his payments into social security as "tithing"....so he basically took his income x 10% then subtracted out what he paid in self employment tax before he settled up with his church.  Great guy but I think he's going to hell for that. (not really....I don't believe in hell)
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 21,610
    I ended up at this....if there is a god I'm not going to worry because I am a good person and I teach my children to be good people.  I am a better person ethically and morally than more than a few diehard "christians" that I know.  If that earns me a spot in hell then so be it.

    I had a client tell me once that he considered his payments into social security as "tithing"....so he basically took his income x 10% then subtracted out what he paid in self employment tax before he settled up with his church.  Great guy but I think he's going to hell for that. (not really....I don't believe in hell)
    That's exactly it - be decent; don't be an asshole.

    People will rationalize their own behavior, as you describe in your second paragraph.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,817
    edited December 2019
    hedonist said:
    Ishmael changed my way of thinking, and of man's place in this world.

    Me, I'm a fence-sitter.  I don't know shit about what's to come, and know enough to know that.

    Faith, or the lack of it, shouldn't cause arguments.  Winning, to me, is about how we live, not by what might be after we're dead.

    And on that note, helloooo, George!

    I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, hedo: I don't know shit about what's to come, and know enough to know that.

    in all fairness to RYME, I think he was just making a joke about winning. I don't honestly believe he actually believes that. 

    Thank you HFD & hedonist. :)
    I'm not slamming non believers.
    I don't know why, but from time to time I share a little bit of my faith.
    I have nothing against people who believe otherwise.
    I've never in my life told anybody that they are going to hell.
    Post edited by RYME on
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