I don't believe in god as it's always seemed like a fairy tale, which people tend to hold onto out of fear. Just because we want somthing to be real doesn't make it so.
I am very happy to believe in myself and live in the moment, i have no firm beliefs of what happens when we die.
I have heard a couple of intresting stories of things that have happened when people i know have used a ouija board, which makes me wonder if there are spirits that live on or get stuck. But i haven't looked into it yet.
I did study budhism for a few years, but in the end i didn't want to give my life up to it.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
thats my issue with religion... you havent found it by yourself, you've had months of explanations so it made sense to you??!?! you could have read into it yourself and made a choice based on your belief, not because someone explained it.. no ones neutral.. if i had to explain religion to my kids or to a friend then they'd come out of it with less belief than they went into the convo with.
anything that requires door-to-door salesmen to promote it cant be good... curtain salesmen, hoover sales reps and 17year Idaho kids in suits who should be out getting drunk or laid or both instead of trying to sign up me up to a fucking religion.. all the same thing, all trying to sell me something i dont need... if i need a fucking hoover, or some curtains or my sundays ripped away from me then i'll LOOK for it myself... until then.. leave me alone. :( :(
anyone want a fruit pastille?
I don't think we find anything ourselves . We are influenced by so many outside agencies ; whether it's parents , friends , advertising executives , shops , books etc .
thats my issue with religion... you havent found it by yourself, you've had months of explanations so it made sense to you??!?! you could have read into it yourself and made a choice based on your belief, not because someone explained it.. no ones neutral.. if i had to explain religion to my kids or to a friend then they'd come out of it with less belief than they went into the convo with.
anything that requires door-to-door salesmen to promote it cant be good... curtain salesmen, hoover sales reps and 17year Idaho kids in suits who should be out getting drunk or laid or both instead of trying to sign up me up to a fucking religion.. all the same thing, all trying to sell me something i dont need... if i need a fucking hoover, or some curtains or my sundays ripped away from me then i'll LOOK for it myself... until then.. leave me alone. :( :(
anyone want a fruit pastille?
That's what I found. It's a brainwashing. They pound the same chants and mantra's into your head over and over again, and what happens is that you begin to convince yourself it's real. All religion is the same as any cult. It's just how the mind works. You brainwash yourself.
Hypnotization is real. If you've ever witnessed a group hypnosis take place on a stage to some of your friends you can attest. I cannot be hypnotized.
I would bet though, that every highly religious person can be easily hypnotized. It's just how the mind works (for some people).
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Life is a miracle. Creation is a miracle. These things could not be present without goodness in the world. On the other hand, the world could exist without goodness, logically speaking. But, it exists WITH it. That is the work of God in our daily lives.
In my view, God is the first cause and all creation was brought about because of His actions.
If you are an atheist but God exists, you will spend eternity in hell because you had the opportunity to believe. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, all you did was give up a little bit of your time to worship God and forego sin. What atheism really comes down to is selfishness - it's all about what I want.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
If you are an atheist but God exists, you will spend eternity in hell because you had the opportunity to believe.
what about a baby that dies aged 3months in a car crash? does it go to hell cos it didnt have a chance to believe?
its been said on here many times but a child rapist killer could still go to heaven if he repents his sins and truly believes in God... whereas a man who does nothing wrong all his life and is then crushed to death by a falling church spire on his way to the local youth centre where he was about to give a talk on how to be a better person in life will go to hell.
if god NEEDS people to believe in him before he allows people into heaven then he's an arrogant narcissist... and what about people who kill in the name of religion... they truly believe in god.. what awaits them?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I don't think we find anything ourselves . We are influenced by so many outside agencies ; whether it's parents , friends , advertising executives , shops , books etc .
thats true to an extent, but people can soak in info and then make their own decision... if people are weak minded then they'll believe anything... Heavens Gate whackos for instance.. believed a spaceship was coming.. retards
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
what about a baby that dies aged 3months in a car crash? does it go to hell cos it didnt have a chance to believe?
its been said on here many times but a child rapist killer could still go to heaven if he repents his sins and truly believes in God... whereas a man who does nothing wrong all his life and is then crushed to death by a falling church spire on his way to the local youth centre where he was about to give a talk on how to be a better person in life will go to hell.
if god NEEDS people to believe in him before he allows people into heaven then he's an arrogant narcissist... and what about people who kill in the name of religion... they truly believe in god.. what awaits them?
You're mentioning a bunch of silly extreme examples which you should already know the answer to.
The baby that dies was completely innocent and also never had the opportunity to believe in God - it wasn't mature enough yet.
God needs people to believe in Him for the same reason that parents need to take care of their children. Love. You wouldn't do it for any other reason besides love. It's really not that hard to love either, so I don't see why it's so difficult to believe in God.
People who kill in the same of Christianity are not being true Christians.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
The baby that dies was completely innocent and also never had the opportunity to believe in God - it wasn't mature enough yet.
ok then what about a remote tribe of Amazonian indians who've never even heard of the bible, jesus or arks.. they worship the river cos it makes their plants grow... do they go to heaven?
God needs people to believe in Him for the same reason that parents need to take care of their children. Love. You wouldn't do it for any other reason besides love. It's really not that hard to love either, so I don't see why it's so difficult to believe in God.
some people make very very bad parents... Eminems mum for example
People who kill in the same of Christianity are not being true Christians.
where did i mention christianity.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
what about a baby that dies aged 3months in a car crash? does it go to hell cos it didnt have a chance to believe?
its been said on here many times but a child rapist killer could still go to heaven if he repents his sins and truly believes in God... whereas a man who does nothing wrong all his life and is then crushed to death by a falling church spire on his way to the local youth centre where he was about to give a talk on how to be a better person in life will go to hell.
if god NEEDS people to believe in him before he allows people into heaven then he's an arrogant narcissist... and what about people who kill in the name of religion... they truly believe in god.. what awaits them?
CorporateWhore has already explained about the baby .
Your other extreme examples would be yes and impossible , if I understand the Christian teaching correctly .
Yes if you truly repent , then your sins will be forgiven you , emphasis on the words truly repent . And in the 2nd instance , there is no such thing as a man who has done nothing wrong , we've all sinned .
Now , I'm prepared to be corrected on this , but that is how I believe the Christian teaching would view your 2 scenarios . I'm not knowledgeable enough about other religions to answer on their belief systems .
ok then what about a remote tribe of Amazonian indians who've never even heard of the bible, jesus or arks.. they worship the river cos it makes their plants grow... do they go to heaven?
what about a baby that dies aged 3months in a car crash? does it go to hell cos it didnt have a chance to believe?
its been said on here many times but a child rapist killer could still go to heaven if he repents his sins and truly believes in God... whereas a man who does nothing wrong all his life and is then crushed to death by a falling church spire on his way to the local youth centre where he was about to give a talk on how to be a better person in life will go to hell.
if god NEEDS people to believe in him before he allows people into heaven then he's an arrogant narcissist... and what about people who kill in the name of religion... they truly believe in god.. what awaits them?
I don't think God needs people, the way you're talking...i think he wants people to believe in Him. People need to believe in God, but God doesn't need us to believe, but wants people to. If he needs us, that would mean that he relies on us to be God. If He truly is God, he doesn't need us to validate Him b/c he'd still be God, even if no one follows him.
I think one of the things that we as humans try to do is to adapt things to our standard and if it doesn't fit what we expect of it, we write it off. Presuppose that their is something that is perfect out there, if you believe there is something perfect and better than you and you believe you are not perfect, why would you try to conform something perfect to ideas that aren't? That it seems is where the ultimate problem is, we dont' want to admit that there may be something greater than us as individuals. If we do admit that then we either have to change to try to become better and try to adapt (however unsuccessfully) to perfection or choose to ignore it or decide that it isn't there. I believe there is something more powerful than me, more perfect than me (which isn't too hard at all), and I agree with what someone else has said, I believe I've seen God work in my life and in others lives.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
ok then what about a remote tribe of Amazonian indians who've never even heard of the bible, jesus or arks.. they worship the river cos it makes their plants grow... do they go to heaven?
There is a concept of accountablity in some christian circles. God alone is the one on who the decision lies, so most people tend to think that if you have never heard of Christ etc... but still recognize that there is something greater God knows the heart of that person and will hold them accountable to what they have been exposed to.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
so what about someone who has led a good life but doesnt believe in god?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
so what about someone who has led a good life but doesnt believe in god?
That's an oxymoron. How are you going to lead a good life but deny that the greatest good exists? Certainly there are good atheists. But, they deny that the greatest good exists in favor of their own good. Ultimately it comes down to thinking that they are greater than God - that their good is more good than God.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
That's an oxymoron. How are you going to lead a good life but deny that the greatest good exists? Certainly there are good atheists. But, they deny that the greatest good exists in favor of their own good. Ultimately it comes down to thinking that they are greater than God - that their good is more good than God.
oxymorons are 2 words.. silent alarm, jumbo shrimp, smart american, things like that...
so to live a good life you must believe in god, and then and only then will heaven await.... yet the amazonian indians who have no knowledge of god yet live a good life will get into heaven due to having led a good life, but that good life cant exist cos they havent acknowledged god?
this religion stuff is confusing and very rulesy... i have no time for either, in fact i'll bail out on this one now and will content myself with sinful living, shagging, boozing, ignoring charity callers to my door, generally taking the piss out of people less fortunate than me... and if theres a god then i've fucked up and i'm going to hell and if there isnt then i've lived a "good life" and can be content that i had fun whilst bible-bashers were out trying to suppress their thoughts of sinful lust by selling cookies at a stall every summer sunday
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
oxymorons are 2 words.. silent alarm, jumbo shrimp, smart american, things like that...
so to live a good life you must believe in god, and then and only then will heaven await.... yet the amazonian indians who have no knowledge of god yet live a good life will get into heaven due to having led a good life, but that good life cant exist cos they havent acknowledged god?
this religion stuff is confusing and very rulesy... i have no time for either, in fact i'll bail out on this one now and will content myself with sinful living, shagging, boozing, ignoring charity callers to my door, generally taking the piss out of people less fortunate than me... and if theres a god then i've fucked up and i'm going to hell and if there isnt then i've lived a "good life" and can be content that i had fun whilst bible-bashers were out trying to suppress their thoughts of sinful lust by selling cookies at a stall every summer sunday
2 things...it's about accountability, and why all the sudden concern and care for the amazonians?
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
The way I understand Christian beliefs , is that whether you go to heaven or not , is dependent upon your own personal relationship with God .
God judges us all , and it would be presumptious for us to try to second guess other peoples ( including Amazonian Indians )relationship with Him .
All we can do is sort out our own life .
We've been given the guidelines on how to lead our lives , what the "rules" are , what the admission criteria for heaven is etc.
Surely as the world has become more screwed up in time, the requirements and standards needed to get into heaven have slipped a little? Im not religious and dont go to church, but i dont dismiss the possibility of their being a god, heaven or hell etc.
Im not evil and dont think i deserve to be going to the same place as people like Hitler, Ted Bundy, Ian Huntley, Phill collins etc, yet according to the bible hell is where im headed if i dont change my ways. Doesnt seem right to me.
People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
2 things...it's about accountability, and why all the sudden concern and care for the amazonians?
i dont know, i felt they were left out of the whole Heaven or Hell equation.. i could have picked Eskimos or a tribe of Masai warriors from Kenya.. doesnt really matter... Amazonian women tend to leave their jugs out as well so i plumped for them... so to speak
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Surely as the world has become more screwed up in time, the requirements and standards needed to get into heaven have slipped a little? Im not religious and dont go to church, but i dont dismiss the possibility of their being a god, heaven or hell etc.
Im not evil and dont think i deserve to be going to the same place as people like Hitler, Ted Bundy, Ian Huntley, Phill collins etc, yet according to the bible hell is where im headed if i dont change my ways. Doesnt seem right to me.
Where does it say that God's idea of fair and right matches ours ?
oxymorons are 2 words.. silent alarm, jumbo shrimp, smart american, things like that...
so to live a good life you must believe in god, and then and only then will heaven await.... yet the amazonian indians who have no knowledge of god yet live a good life will get into heaven due to having led a good life, but that good life cant exist cos they havent acknowledged god?
this religion stuff is confusing and very rulesy... i have no time for either, in fact i'll bail out on this one now and will content myself with sinful living, shagging, boozing, ignoring charity callers to my door, generally taking the piss out of people less fortunate than me... and if theres a god then i've fucked up and i'm going to hell and if there isnt then i've lived a "good life" and can be content that i had fun whilst bible-bashers were out trying to suppress their thoughts of sinful lust by selling cookies at a stall every summer sunday
Um, okay. Holy atheist. Oxymoron.
The indians you speak of did not receive the gospel. They cannot act on information that they do not know.
As long as you resign to your lifestyle and refuse to make it better, no amount of God can help you anyway.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Not to sound extreme but...what's the difference between the guy who kills for fun and the guy who goes his whole life being a mediocre human being?
since when did "decent guy" become "mediocre human being"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i just assumed that God, being all good that he is, wouldnt categorise someone who is basically a decent guy, with someone who kills people for fun.
if christianity is all about being good and that's enough to get into heaven... why did Jesus die? The thing is, no one is "good" enough to get into heaven. So the ultimate question is not how good were you, but did you love and worship God and acknowledge what Jesus did. edit: see above answers for people who haven't heard about the bible.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Not to sound extreme but...what's the difference between the guy who kills for fun and the guy who goes his whole life being a mediocre human being?
That does sound a bit extreme but as it was once said to me when I was arguing that your average person and a murderer were miles apart ....... yes there is a difference but the average person will still commit any number of sins e.g everybody tells lies ; everybody gets angry or jealous at times .
Just because there is a perception amongst humans that some sins are worse than others , doesn't make the "little" sins okay .
We all sin and in God's eyes that is unacceptable , but if we are truly sorry we wil be forgiven .
That does sound a bit extreme but as it was once said to me when I was arguing that your average person and a murderer were miles apart ....... yes there is a difference but the average person will still commit any number of sins e.g everybody tells lies ; everybody gets angry or jealous at times .
Just because there is a perception amongst humans that some sins are worse than others , doesn't make the "little" sins okay .
We all sin and in God's eyes that is unacceptable , but if we are truly sorry we wil be forgiven .
Nah, you got it all wrong. The gig is up on God and the sinning. God told me this morning, "son, sometimes you just gotta say, 'what the fuck'."
Comments
I am very happy to believe in myself and live in the moment, i have no firm beliefs of what happens when we die.
I have heard a couple of intresting stories of things that have happened when people i know have used a ouija board, which makes me wonder if there are spirits that live on or get stuck. But i haven't looked into it yet.
I did study budhism for a few years, but in the end i didn't want to give my life up to it.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I don't think we find anything ourselves . We are influenced by so many outside agencies ; whether it's parents , friends , advertising executives , shops , books etc .
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
That's what I found. It's a brainwashing. They pound the same chants and mantra's into your head over and over again, and what happens is that you begin to convince yourself it's real. All religion is the same as any cult. It's just how the mind works. You brainwash yourself.
Hypnotization is real. If you've ever witnessed a group hypnosis take place on a stage to some of your friends you can attest. I cannot be hypnotized.
I would bet though, that every highly religious person can be easily hypnotized. It's just how the mind works (for some people).
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
In my view, God is the first cause and all creation was brought about because of His actions.
If you are an atheist but God exists, you will spend eternity in hell because you had the opportunity to believe. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, all you did was give up a little bit of your time to worship God and forego sin. What atheism really comes down to is selfishness - it's all about what I want.
-Enoch Powell
what about a baby that dies aged 3months in a car crash? does it go to hell cos it didnt have a chance to believe?
its been said on here many times but a child rapist killer could still go to heaven if he repents his sins and truly believes in God... whereas a man who does nothing wrong all his life and is then crushed to death by a falling church spire on his way to the local youth centre where he was about to give a talk on how to be a better person in life will go to hell.
if god NEEDS people to believe in him before he allows people into heaven then he's an arrogant narcissist... and what about people who kill in the name of religion... they truly believe in god.. what awaits them?
thats true to an extent, but people can soak in info and then make their own decision... if people are weak minded then they'll believe anything... Heavens Gate whackos for instance.. believed a spaceship was coming.. retards
You're mentioning a bunch of silly extreme examples which you should already know the answer to.
The baby that dies was completely innocent and also never had the opportunity to believe in God - it wasn't mature enough yet.
God needs people to believe in Him for the same reason that parents need to take care of their children. Love. You wouldn't do it for any other reason besides love. It's really not that hard to love either, so I don't see why it's so difficult to believe in God.
People who kill in the same of Christianity are not being true Christians.
-Enoch Powell
Define hypnotised
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
ok then what about a remote tribe of Amazonian indians who've never even heard of the bible, jesus or arks.. they worship the river cos it makes their plants grow... do they go to heaven?
some people make very very bad parents... Eminems mum for example
where did i mention christianity.
Your other extreme examples would be yes and impossible , if I understand the Christian teaching correctly .
Yes if you truly repent , then your sins will be forgiven you , emphasis on the words truly repent . And in the 2nd instance , there is no such thing as a man who has done nothing wrong , we've all sinned .
Now , I'm prepared to be corrected on this , but that is how I believe the Christian teaching would view your 2 scenarios . I'm not knowledgeable enough about other religions to answer on their belief systems .
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
Yes, if they led a good life.
I can only speak for Christianity. Other religions support the use of war to further their goals.
-Enoch Powell
I don't think God needs people, the way you're talking...i think he wants people to believe in Him. People need to believe in God, but God doesn't need us to believe, but wants people to. If he needs us, that would mean that he relies on us to be God. If He truly is God, he doesn't need us to validate Him b/c he'd still be God, even if no one follows him.
I think one of the things that we as humans try to do is to adapt things to our standard and if it doesn't fit what we expect of it, we write it off. Presuppose that their is something that is perfect out there, if you believe there is something perfect and better than you and you believe you are not perfect, why would you try to conform something perfect to ideas that aren't? That it seems is where the ultimate problem is, we dont' want to admit that there may be something greater than us as individuals. If we do admit that then we either have to change to try to become better and try to adapt (however unsuccessfully) to perfection or choose to ignore it or decide that it isn't there. I believe there is something more powerful than me, more perfect than me (which isn't too hard at all), and I agree with what someone else has said, I believe I've seen God work in my life and in others lives.
There is a concept of accountablity in some christian circles. God alone is the one on who the decision lies, so most people tend to think that if you have never heard of Christ etc... but still recognize that there is something greater God knows the heart of that person and will hold them accountable to what they have been exposed to.
so what about someone who has led a good life but doesnt believe in god?
That's an oxymoron. How are you going to lead a good life but deny that the greatest good exists? Certainly there are good atheists. But, they deny that the greatest good exists in favor of their own good. Ultimately it comes down to thinking that they are greater than God - that their good is more good than God.
-Enoch Powell
oxymorons are 2 words.. silent alarm, jumbo shrimp, smart american, things like that...
so to live a good life you must believe in god, and then and only then will heaven await.... yet the amazonian indians who have no knowledge of god yet live a good life will get into heaven due to having led a good life, but that good life cant exist cos they havent acknowledged god?
this religion stuff is confusing and very rulesy... i have no time for either, in fact i'll bail out on this one now and will content myself with sinful living, shagging, boozing, ignoring charity callers to my door, generally taking the piss out of people less fortunate than me... and if theres a god then i've fucked up and i'm going to hell and if there isnt then i've lived a "good life" and can be content that i had fun whilst bible-bashers were out trying to suppress their thoughts of sinful lust by selling cookies at a stall every summer sunday
2 things...it's about accountability, and why all the sudden concern and care for the amazonians?
God judges us all , and it would be presumptious for us to try to second guess other peoples ( including Amazonian Indians )relationship with Him .
All we can do is sort out our own life .
We've been given the guidelines on how to lead our lives , what the "rules" are , what the admission criteria for heaven is etc.
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
Im not evil and dont think i deserve to be going to the same place as people like Hitler, Ted Bundy, Ian Huntley, Phill collins etc, yet according to the bible hell is where im headed if i dont change my ways. Doesnt seem right to me.
i dont know, i felt they were left out of the whole Heaven or Hell equation.. i could have picked Eskimos or a tribe of Masai warriors from Kenya.. doesnt really matter... Amazonian women tend to leave their jugs out as well so i plumped for them... so to speak
Where does it say that God's idea of fair and right matches ours ?
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
Um, okay. Holy atheist. Oxymoron.
The indians you speak of did not receive the gospel. They cannot act on information that they do not know.
As long as you resign to your lifestyle and refuse to make it better, no amount of God can help you anyway.
-Enoch Powell
Eh?
i just assumed that God, being all good that he is, wouldnt categorise someone who is basically a decent guy, with someone who kills people for fun.
Not to sound extreme but...what's the difference between the guy who kills for fun and the guy who goes his whole life being a mediocre human being?
-Enoch Powell
I'd call a guy that kills for fun a mediocre human being.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
since when did "decent guy" become "mediocre human being"
if christianity is all about being good and that's enough to get into heaven... why did Jesus die? The thing is, no one is "good" enough to get into heaven. So the ultimate question is not how good were you, but did you love and worship God and acknowledge what Jesus did. edit: see above answers for people who haven't heard about the bible.
Indians are cool. They know how to live the way of the earth.
Thus Sprach Zarathrustra
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
That does sound a bit extreme but as it was once said to me when I was arguing that your average person and a murderer were miles apart ....... yes there is a difference but the average person will still commit any number of sins e.g everybody tells lies ; everybody gets angry or jealous at times .
Just because there is a perception amongst humans that some sins are worse than others , doesn't make the "little" sins okay .
We all sin and in God's eyes that is unacceptable , but if we are truly sorry we wil be forgiven .
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.