Viruses / Vaccines 2

mace1229

Testing shortage seems to be getting better. Our youngest woke us up at 2 am Saturday and had a 104 fever. He’s better now. We had 1 home test and he was positive. Last time I tried booking with our healthcare it was about 2 weeks out, which is pointless. This time they had next day appointments. Hoping for results today, but not one else has symptoms yet. I was going to lose my mind if we couldn’t get tested for weeks.

oftenreading

Today Health Canada approved paxlovid (nirmatrelvir/ritonavir), which some research suggests can reduce the rate of serious morbidity and mortality by 89% in high-risk covid patients.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/health-canada-pfizer-therapeutic-1.6317505

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

Testing shortage seems to be getting better. Our youngest woke us up at 2 am Saturday and had a 104 fever. He’s better now. We had 1 home test and he was positive. Last time I tried booking with our healthcare it was about 2 weeks out, which is pointless. This time they had next day appointments. Hoping for results today, but not one else has symptoms yet. I was going to lose my mind if we couldn’t get tested for weeks.

Good luck to all of you.

You may want to wait another day or two before testing the family, especially if you are still asymptomatic. 

mrussel1

oftenreading said:

Today Health Canada approved paxlovid (nirmatrelvir/ritonavir), which some research suggests can reduce the rate of serious morbidity and mortality by 89% in high-risk covid patients.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/health-canada-pfizer-therapeutic-1.6317505

That's good although I think this is in very short supply right now,  at least it is here in the States. 

oftenreading

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

Today Health Canada approved paxlovid (nirmatrelvir/ritonavir), which some research suggests can reduce the rate of serious morbidity and mortality by 89% in high-risk covid patients.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/health-canada-pfizer-therapeutic-1.6317505

That's good although I think this is in very short supply right now,  at least it is here in the States. 

Indeed, though Pfizer is working on increasing production capacity by expanding development in countries/facilities in Europe and other areas.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-boost-covid-19-pill-production-with-french-deal-2022-01-17/

oftenreading

A good read on why we shouldn't be calling omicron infections "mild", why it's not a great idea to "just get infected and get it over with", and why the "hospitalized with or for covid" debate is more complicated than some would like it to be.

Experts on whether getting Covid is inevitable and why, despite claims of ‘mildness’, the variant is highly dangerous

Leaders in the US have struck a pessimistic tone about the Covid-19 pandemic in recent weeks amid rapid spread of the Omicron variant.

Janet Woodcock, acting commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration, recently testified before Congress that “most people are going to get Covid”. Dr Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to Joe Biden, has also said that Omicron “​​will ultimately find just about everybody” in terms of exposure, though vaccines make an important difference in who develops the illness.

But Covid-19 is still a very serious disease with unknown outcomes, even for the less severe Omicron variant.

Here top experts break down exactly why people should still try to avoid getting Covid-19 – especially in the next few weeks and months, as hospitals see unprecedented strain and effective early treatments are appearing on the horizon.

Am I just going to get Covid no matter what I do?

“That’s not true,” said Paul Offit, a professor of pediatrics in the division of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “I don’t plan on getting infected with Omicron. I’m vaccinated; because I’m over 65, I’m boosted. I wear a mask whenever I’m in public and indoors around people I don’t know. And I have no intentions of being infected with this virus.”

While the more transmissible Omicron variant is infecting more people than ever before, taking proven precautions can still prevent it: getting vaccinated and boosted, wearing high-quality masks, improving ventilation and avoiding crowds indoors.

Should I just get it and get it over with?

Planning to get Omicron in order to gain some immunity or get it over with is a terrible idea, said Eric Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research. “This is a real-deal virus where there’s unpredictability,” he said. “Some people can get very sick. Some people can get long Covid. Some people unwittingly will then get immunocompromised people sick”, leading to hospitalization and death.

He added: “There’s too many liabilities, too many uncertainties and unpredictabilities when you get a virus with this known profile that can be very severe and lethal still.”

And it’s not at all clear if recovering from Omicron would protect against future variants.

If you’ve already gotten Omicron, it may have broadened your T-cell recognition and your B-cell memory and given you “a nice jolt of neutralizing antibodies”, Topol said. But “you can’t possibly make that assertion that Omicron will protect from the future”.

But isn’t Omicron mild?

Definitely not a guarantee. It is still a deadly illness.

Omicon is less severe than Delta – but Delta was itself more severe than previous variants.

“It can still be severe,” Topol said. He calls it less severe, not milder. “‘Milder’ caught on early, and I think it’s unfortunate it’s given this impression, because there’s so many people dying and winding up in the ICU.”

In animal studies, Omicron was less effective than Delta at infecting lung tissue, making severe pneumonia less likely. And according to a new preprint study, which has not been published or peer reviewed, illness was shorter and hospitalizations were half as likely among those with Omicron versus Delta.

But a lowered risk of getting very ill doesn’t mean no risk, Offit said. “You still could have all of those things happen to you – you still could be hospitalized, go to the ICU, require mechanical ventilation and die.”

Is that why some people are still being hospitalized?

The US has record-high hospitalizations, and cases are more than three times higher than our previous highest peak, a year ago.

That’s because the other characteristics of Omicron – its immune-evasiveness and transmissibility – more than outweigh its relatively less severe symptoms. When more people get sick, there are more chances of the illness going very wrong.

“A small percentage of a huge number is a very large number,” said Jorge Moreno, assistant professor of medicine at the Yale School of Medicine.

Jerome Adams, the former US surgeon general, laid out the math: “If your enemy uses a weapon that’s one-third as likely to kill you, but four times as many people are shooting at you, you’re now 1.3 times as likely to die!”

What about this idea of being hospitalized “for” versus “with” Covid?

“I think that’s grossly inaccurate,” Topol said. He recently cared for a Covid-positive patient with chronic lung disease who was coded as hospitalized “with”, not “for,” Covid. That’s because the patient needed to be treated for the lung disease – but it had only flared up because of Covid.

“We do have 150,000 US hospitalizations with or for Covid, which is well beyond any record and is completely overwhelming health systems,” Topol said. “So, this debate is just nonsensical.”

There are cases where patients are undergoing surgery or getting treated for accidents when they test positive for Covid incidentally. But that’s not very common, experts said.

It’s far more likely that Covid exacerbates another condition or causes a different illness to rise to the forefront: complications from diabetes, renal failure, strokes, heart inflammation or failure, asthma, emphysema, pulmonary embolisms.

Does that mean the types of complications caused by Covid are changing?

“This virus does things no other respiratory virus does,” Offit said. “You can have strokes, heart attacks, kidney disease, liver disease, and then whatever long Covid is.”

Previous variants also created these types of complications. The difference with Omicron is, you might not need to be ventilated – but you’ll still need to be hospitalized, sometimes in the intensive care unit.

“It may be causing a milder pulmonary problem, but it’s definitely still causing other problems,” Moreno said. “They may not require intubation; they may still require the ICU.”

One major complication from Covid has been diabetic ketoacidosis. “It raises their blood sugars; it creates conditions that are more threatening for patients with diabetes,” Moreno said.

“Those are very urgent and sometimes life-threatening conditions. They still require a lot of care. They still require a lot of time in the hospital.”

continued at link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/16/no-intention-of-getting-infected-understanding-omicrons-severity

Meltdown99

Gern Blansten said:

Meltdown99 said:

mickeyrat said:

Meltdown99 said:

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1481956437559554054?s=21

"but I'm  just a dumb monkey comedian. nobody should listen to me .... now let me tell you about my supplements....."

As long as he can attract guest and viewers he’ll always have a platform…unfortunately…

Yeah it's fucked up. I have a tRumpster friend that actually got vaccinated but when I was talking to him the other day I asked if he got boosted and he had not yet. He was bringing up this bullshit from Rogan. I told him to get boosted but left it at that. He said that he had been taking some immunity boosting bullshit from some local wellness store.

Why people reject science yet believe idiots like Rogan just blows my mind.

Most of my opinions on Rohan are based off clips and what i read.  So this past weekend I watched 3 of his podcast or whatever on YouTube…jay leno, bill burr and bob saget…bill burr was the only 1 enjoyable..The other 2 were Rogan and his guest just sitting and talking…with Rogan spreading his ignorance…not enjoyable.

Gern Blansten

Meltdown99 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Meltdown99 said:

mickeyrat said:

Meltdown99 said:

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1481956437559554054?s=21

"but I'm  just a dumb monkey comedian. nobody should listen to me .... now let me tell you about my supplements....."

As long as he can attract guest and viewers he’ll always have a platform…unfortunately…

Yeah it's fucked up. I have a tRumpster friend that actually got vaccinated but when I was talking to him the other day I asked if he got boosted and he had not yet. He was bringing up this bullshit from Rogan. I told him to get boosted but left it at that. He said that he had been taking some immunity boosting bullshit from some local wellness store.

Why people reject science yet believe idiots like Rogan just blows my mind.

Most of my opinions on Rohan are based off clips and what i read.  So this past weekend I watched 3 of his podcast or whatever on YouTube…jay leno, bill burr and bob saget…bill burr was the only 1 enjoyable..The other 2 were Rogan and his guest just sitting and talking…with Rogan spreading his ignorance…not enjoyable.

I honestly haven't listened to him much. I probably wouldn't mind him if he didn't spew that bullshit as fact.

He's not stupid but how does someone with that following not want to make sure what they are stating is helpful or even true?  It's fucked up to bring that quack doctor on to give these anti-vax idiots a leg to stand on.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

Testing shortage seems to be getting better. Our youngest woke us up at 2 am Saturday and had a 104 fever. He’s better now. We had 1 home test and he was positive. Last time I tried booking with our healthcare it was about 2 weeks out, which is pointless. This time they had next day appointments. Hoping for results today, but not one else has symptoms yet. I was going to lose my mind if we couldn’t get tested for weeks.

Good luck to all of you.

You may want to wait another day or two before testing the family, especially if you are still asymptomatic. 

Thank you.
yeah, I thought about that. But I think my wife needs (may just be recommended) a negative test to go in tomorrow. So we’ll try again in a few days if it’s negative.

bootlegger10

Zod said:

How did everyone fair with their booster?

My first 2 were Pfizer, but on Thursday I got a Moderna booster.   The first pfizer was ok, super sore arm for a few days, 2nd pfizer as an even sorer sore arm, and I felt off/lathargic for a day or two.    I had that with the moderna, but went up another notch and I had a major fever about a day and a bit after I got the shot.. going back to normal now.. but fuck that wasn't pleasant.

My first two were Pfizer and I elected to do Pfizer again as had no significant issues with the Pfizer shots before.   I didn't have any issues with the booster but did make sure to drink fluids and took Tylenol/Advil during the day which may have helped a little (I didn't take any pain relievers during the first two shots).  

mickeyrat

oftenreading said:

A good read on why we shouldn't be calling omicron infections "mild", why it's not a great idea to "just get infected and get it over with", and why the "hospitalized with or for covid" debate is more complicated than some would like it to be.

Experts on whether getting Covid is inevitable and why, despite claims of ‘mildness’, the variant is highly dangerous

Leaders in the US have struck a pessimistic tone about the Covid-19 pandemic in recent weeks amid rapid spread of the Omicron variant.

Janet Woodcock, acting commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration, recently testified before Congress that “most people are going to get Covid”. Dr Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to Joe Biden, has also said that Omicron “​​will ultimately find just about everybody” in terms of exposure, though vaccines make an important difference in who develops the illness.

But Covid-19 is still a very serious disease with unknown outcomes, even for the less severe Omicron variant.

Here top experts break down exactly why people should still try to avoid getting Covid-19 – especially in the next few weeks and months, as hospitals see unprecedented strain and effective early treatments are appearing on the horizon.

Am I just going to get Covid no matter what I do?

“That’s not true,” said Paul Offit, a professor of pediatrics in the division of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “I don’t plan on getting infected with Omicron. I’m vaccinated; because I’m over 65, I’m boosted. I wear a mask whenever I’m in public and indoors around people I don’t know. And I have no intentions of being infected with this virus.”

While the more transmissible Omicron variant is infecting more people than ever before, taking proven precautions can still prevent it: getting vaccinated and boosted, wearing high-quality masks, improving ventilation and avoiding crowds indoors.

Should I just get it and get it over with?

Planning to get Omicron in order to gain some immunity or get it over with is a terrible idea, said Eric Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research. “This is a real-deal virus where there’s unpredictability,” he said. “Some people can get very sick. Some people can get long Covid. Some people unwittingly will then get immunocompromised people sick”, leading to hospitalization and death.

He added: “There’s too many liabilities, too many uncertainties and unpredictabilities when you get a virus with this known profile that can be very severe and lethal still.”

And it’s not at all clear if recovering from Omicron would protect against future variants.

If you’ve already gotten Omicron, it may have broadened your T-cell recognition and your B-cell memory and given you “a nice jolt of neutralizing antibodies”, Topol said. But “you can’t possibly make that assertion that Omicron will protect from the future”.

But isn’t Omicron mild?

Definitely not a guarantee. It is still a deadly illness.

Omicon is less severe than Delta – but Delta was itself more severe than previous variants.

“It can still be severe,” Topol said. He calls it less severe, not milder. “‘Milder’ caught on early, and I think it’s unfortunate it’s given this impression, because there’s so many people dying and winding up in the ICU.”

In animal studies, Omicron was less effective than Delta at infecting lung tissue, making severe pneumonia less likely. And according to a new preprint study, which has not been published or peer reviewed, illness was shorter and hospitalizations were half as likely among those with Omicron versus Delta.

But a lowered risk of getting very ill doesn’t mean no risk, Offit said. “You still could have all of those things happen to you – you still could be hospitalized, go to the ICU, require mechanical ventilation and die.”

Is that why some people are still being hospitalized?

The US has record-high hospitalizations, and cases are more than three times higher than our previous highest peak, a year ago.

That’s because the other characteristics of Omicron – its immune-evasiveness and transmissibility – more than outweigh its relatively less severe symptoms. When more people get sick, there are more chances of the illness going very wrong.

“A small percentage of a huge number is a very large number,” said Jorge Moreno, assistant professor of medicine at the Yale School of Medicine.

Jerome Adams, the former US surgeon general, laid out the math: “If your enemy uses a weapon that’s one-third as likely to kill you, but four times as many people are shooting at you, you’re now 1.3 times as likely to die!”

What about this idea of being hospitalized “for” versus “with” Covid?

“I think that’s grossly inaccurate,” Topol said. He recently cared for a Covid-positive patient with chronic lung disease who was coded as hospitalized “with”, not “for,” Covid. That’s because the patient needed to be treated for the lung disease – but it had only flared up because of Covid.

“We do have 150,000 US hospitalizations with or for Covid, which is well beyond any record and is completely overwhelming health systems,” Topol said. “So, this debate is just nonsensical.”

There are cases where patients are undergoing surgery or getting treated for accidents when they test positive for Covid incidentally. But that’s not very common, experts said.

It’s far more likely that Covid exacerbates another condition or causes a different illness to rise to the forefront: complications from diabetes, renal failure, strokes, heart inflammation or failure, asthma, emphysema, pulmonary embolisms.

Does that mean the types of complications caused by Covid are changing?

“This virus does things no other respiratory virus does,” Offit said. “You can have strokes, heart attacks, kidney disease, liver disease, and then whatever long Covid is.”

Previous variants also created these types of complications. The difference with Omicron is, you might not need to be ventilated – but you’ll still need to be hospitalized, sometimes in the intensive care unit.

“It may be causing a milder pulmonary problem, but it’s definitely still causing other problems,” Moreno said. “They may not require intubation; they may still require the ICU.”

One major complication from Covid has been diabetic ketoacidosis. “It raises their blood sugars; it creates conditions that are more threatening for patients with diabetes,” Moreno said.

“Those are very urgent and sometimes life-threatening conditions. They still require a lot of care. They still require a lot of time in the hospital.”

continued at link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/16/no-intention-of-getting-infected-understanding-omicrons-severity

well. this is what journslism looks like?

OnWis97

Scott Quiner is the current poster child for hospitals killing patriots.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-man-battling-covid-19-moved-to-texas-hospital-after-ventilator-lawsuit.amp

Gern Blansten

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

JB16057

Gern Blansten said:

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

The vaccine used to protect against the spread of COVID but now it doesn't. We are being told to go get those boosters but is that the right decision? As far as we know right now the answer is yes but what if that changes over time much like the vaccine efficacy? https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/1/12/22879917/covid-19-vaccine-booster-too-many-shots-immune-system

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

I haven’t seen that, not saying it isn’t happening. But why single her out, everyone said it up until about 7 or 8 months ago.
I do see similar arguments that don’t single her out and not to call anyone a liar, but to point out how much we don’t know, and how quickly what we do changes.
What I find odd is a lot of people seem to claim the purpose of this, and any vaccine, is to not prevent illness and spread, but simply lessen the symptoms when you do get it. I see nothing wrong with saying the vaccine isn’t as effective as it once was, but will still save many lives. Don’t need to sugar coat that into something it’s not.

mrussel1

JB16057 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

The vaccine used to protect against the spread of COVID but now it doesn't. We are being told to go get those boosters but is that the right decision? As far as we know right now the answer is yes but what if that changes over time much like the vaccine efficacy? https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/1/12/22879917/covid-19-vaccine-booster-too-many-shots-immune-system

Then you adjust guidance if the latest research points that way.  That's how science works.  LThe studies so far have shown that full vaccine plus booster protect you from infection 50 to 80% of the time.  Now that's not perfect and not as high as it was against the original variants,  but still worthwhile to push a a public health priority.  

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

The vaccine used to protect against the spread of COVID but now it doesn't. We are being told to go get those boosters but is that the right decision? As far as we know right now the answer is yes but what if that changes over time much like the vaccine efficacy? https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/1/12/22879917/covid-19-vaccine-booster-too-many-shots-immune-system

Then you adjust guidance if the latest research points that way.  That's how science works.  LThe studies so far have shown that full vaccine plus booster protect you from infection 50 to 80% of the time.  Now that's not perfect and not as high as it was against the original variants,  but still worthwhile to push a a public health priority.  

you mean the vaccine built for the varients from 2020?

fucking lazy science.  shoulda did em for the next one to come.

mrussel1

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

The vaccine used to protect against the spread of COVID but now it doesn't. We are being told to go get those boosters but is that the right decision? As far as we know right now the answer is yes but what if that changes over time much like the vaccine efficacy? https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/1/12/22879917/covid-19-vaccine-booster-too-many-shots-immune-system

Then you adjust guidance if the latest research points that way.  That's how science works.  LThe studies so far have shown that full vaccine plus booster protect you from infection 50 to 80% of the time.  Now that's not perfect and not as high as it was against the original variants,  but still worthwhile to push a a public health priority.  

you mean the vaccine built for the varients from 2020?

fucking lazy science.  shoulda did em for the next one to come.

They were probably union. 

oftenreading

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

JB16057 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I keep seeing tRumpsters trot out this clip of Rachel Maddow saying that people that have been vaccinated do NOT transmit the virus....come to find out this clip is a year old and that was the thought at the time. Maddow wasn't making it up...she was just reporting what others were publishing.

None of them do five seconds of research to see why Maddow would have said that. They just say how much of a liar she is.

This is an example of the disconnect between fake news and reality. 

The vaccine used to protect against the spread of COVID but now it doesn't. We are being told to go get those boosters but is that the right decision? As far as we know right now the answer is yes but what if that changes over time much like the vaccine efficacy? https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2022/1/12/22879917/covid-19-vaccine-booster-too-many-shots-immune-system

Then you adjust guidance if the latest research points that way.  That's how science works.  LThe studies so far have shown that full vaccine plus booster protect you from infection 50 to 80% of the time.  Now that's not perfect and not as high as it was against the original variants,  but still worthwhile to push a a public health priority.  

you mean the vaccine built for the varients from 2020?

fucking lazy science.  shoulda did em for the next one to come.

They were probably union. 

Immunologists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your labs.

nicknyr15

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna11996