Viruses / Vaccines 2

BF25394

shadowcast said:

benjs said:

shadowcast said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Then you take precautions...You get vaxed, you stay home, you wear a mask. If you get vaxed you won't get it or spread it right? The damage they did to our kids keeping them out of school, wearing masks (that don't work) there are kids that still wear mask at my kids schools (These parents are lunatics) . The country already suffers from enough mental illness. COVID really rattled the cage and made it 100x worse. This also planted a seed in peoples head to be lazy and not work. Get a hand out. Stay at home all day and scroll on their phone and order from Door dash.  "We're all just visiting. All just breaking like waves". Don't live your life in fear....I highly recommend reading the book The culture of fear. 

Given you had such concern of the mental cost of isolation during CoVID, how can you tell people if they're scared they should "just stay home"? Do they not matter?

Next - you talk about wearing masks. Much of Asia does this as preventative measures - are they predominantly mentally ill? My sister learned during CoVID that if she wears a mask more often, she never gets sick. It's been since CoVID and she's not been sick once - That's down from having a nasty cold for five months of the year. Is she mentally ill for wearing a mask? 

Then - you talk about these "lunatic parents". Maybe you do you? In what way are these folks affecting you?

After that, you talk about how CoVID really "rattled the cage". You're right - the country clearly already suffered from enough mental illness prior to CoVID. Back then, there was this guy in charge who said it was a hoax and diminished the potential harm of the virus - and in spite of what their eyes and ears showed them, they believed said dumb fuck. Then he fought against introducing precautions to society that were then considered medically sound. Then he showed vaccine skepticism and dissuaded throngs of people from preventing their own demise (all while claiming credit for the speed of the vaccine's development - huh?). If people had fucking listened to advice, and stopped complaining about how terrible the shutdowns would be instead of moaning about their temporarily restricted freedom, CoVID would've likely been an epidemic instead of a pandemic, and far more manageable within North America. So if you think CoVID made the state of mental health 100x worse, what do you think of the dumb fucks who enlarged the problem and prolonged it?

And then, you move onto the victim shaming portion of your statement. How awful that people went through emotional trauma (100x worse than what they were experiencing prior to CoVID, apparently) and came out of it "lazy". Not depressed. Not stuck, trapped, paralyzed, helpless - just "lazy". 

I'm sorry you feel so apathetic about fellow humans. 

Trump is a jackass but not as bad as Biden....Biden really put the lockdown on and wanted to mandate the vaccine. China wears masks  the most and where did the virus come from? You have an immune system it needs practice. It was a scamdemic. A million people did not die from covid. If you died in a car accident and had covid in your system they marked it down as a covid death. It was the flu. The mental illness being cast upon by these maniac parents that have their kids where a mask still is child abuse. These parents are not helping society by raising their kids like this. We are going to have even more mental illness  You choose to live in fear. I do not. So continue being doubled masked and quadruple boosted. We are all in failing bodies......Do not spend your time here in constant fear. It's not healthy.

 Psssst pro tip- allllll the doctors and alllll the scientists knew everyone would eventually get covid/the flu. So instead of telling them to eat better, lose weight,  take vitamin C&D, take ivermectin &  go outside and exercise. They closed parks, put chains on the swings, dumped sand in skate parks. arrested people for swimming in the ocean, if you got COVID they literally told you to stay home for 7-10 days and nothing else. If it gets worse come to the hospital. They never mentioned any other remedy besides sheltering and placing and getting the jab. Calling bullshit.....I've known more people (4) under 45 that have died unexpectedly after COVID (vaccinated) and didn't know one person who died from COVID/the flu. 

There is so much here that demonstrates it would be pointless to try to have an informed debate with you-- ivermectin!-- but I can't refrain from pointing out your comically revisionist history. You actually believe that "lockdowns"-- and it's always worth noting that there actually weren't lockdowns in this country; aside from nursing homes; people were free to come and go as they pleased; not so in, for example, China, which actually locked down large portions of its population-- were greater in 2021 and later, under Biden, than they were in 2020 under Trump? That is an insane version of history.

With respect to prevalent masking, you might want to "do the research" on Japan, which it might shock you to learn is a different country than China.

BF25394

shadowcast said:

Tim Simmons said:

shadowcast said:

BIG Pharma wants you weak and sick just along enough that they can make money off you. They are not interested in cures. 

I'd be curious to see how we would all be faring as a society if there were no pharmaceutical companies. 

They got greedy in the 80's......Hence Dallas Buyers club and Oxycotten. 

Oxycotten? Did you get that from one of the peer-reviewed scientific journals you read?

Bentleyspop

BF25394 said:

shadowcast said:

benjs said:

shadowcast said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Then you take precautions...You get vaxed, you stay home, you wear a mask. If you get vaxed you won't get it or spread it right? The damage they did to our kids keeping them out of school, wearing masks (that don't work) there are kids that still wear mask at my kids schools (These parents are lunatics) . The country already suffers from enough mental illness. COVID really rattled the cage and made it 100x worse. This also planted a seed in peoples head to be lazy and not work. Get a hand out. Stay at home all day and scroll on their phone and order from Door dash.  "We're all just visiting. All just breaking like waves". Don't live your life in fear....I highly recommend reading the book The culture of fear. 

Given you had such concern of the mental cost of isolation during CoVID, how can you tell people if they're scared they should "just stay home"? Do they not matter?

Next - you talk about wearing masks. Much of Asia does this as preventative measures - are they predominantly mentally ill? My sister learned during CoVID that if she wears a mask more often, she never gets sick. It's been since CoVID and she's not been sick once - That's down from having a nasty cold for five months of the year. Is she mentally ill for wearing a mask? 

Then - you talk about these "lunatic parents". Maybe you do you? In what way are these folks affecting you?

After that, you talk about how CoVID really "rattled the cage". You're right - the country clearly already suffered from enough mental illness prior to CoVID. Back then, there was this guy in charge who said it was a hoax and diminished the potential harm of the virus - and in spite of what their eyes and ears showed them, they believed said dumb fuck. Then he fought against introducing precautions to society that were then considered medically sound. Then he showed vaccine skepticism and dissuaded throngs of people from preventing their own demise (all while claiming credit for the speed of the vaccine's development - huh?). If people had fucking listened to advice, and stopped complaining about how terrible the shutdowns would be instead of moaning about their temporarily restricted freedom, CoVID would've likely been an epidemic instead of a pandemic, and far more manageable within North America. So if you think CoVID made the state of mental health 100x worse, what do you think of the dumb fucks who enlarged the problem and prolonged it?

And then, you move onto the victim shaming portion of your statement. How awful that people went through emotional trauma (100x worse than what they were experiencing prior to CoVID, apparently) and came out of it "lazy". Not depressed. Not stuck, trapped, paralyzed, helpless - just "lazy". 

I'm sorry you feel so apathetic about fellow humans. 

Trump is a jackass but not as bad as Biden....Biden really put the lockdown on and wanted to mandate the vaccine. China wears masks  the most and where did the virus come from? You have an immune system it needs practice. It was a scamdemic. A million people did not die from covid. If you died in a car accident and had covid in your system they marked it down as a covid death. It was the flu. The mental illness being cast upon by these maniac parents that have their kids where a mask still is child abuse. These parents are not helping society by raising their kids like this. We are going to have even more mental illness  You choose to live in fear. I do not. So continue being doubled masked and quadruple boosted. We are all in failing bodies......Do not spend your time here in constant fear. It's not healthy.

 Psssst pro tip- allllll the doctors and alllll the scientists knew everyone would eventually get covid/the flu. So instead of telling them to eat better, lose weight,  take vitamin C&D, take ivermectin &  go outside and exercise. They closed parks, put chains on the swings, dumped sand in skate parks. arrested people for swimming in the ocean, if you got COVID they literally told you to stay home for 7-10 days and nothing else. If it gets worse come to the hospital. They never mentioned any other remedy besides sheltering and placing and getting the jab. Calling bullshit.....I've known more people (4) under 45 that have died unexpectedly after COVID (vaccinated) and didn't know one person who died from COVID/the flu. 

There is so much here that demonstrates it would be pointless to try to have an informed debate with you-- ivermectin!-- but I can't refrain from pointing out your comically revisionist history. You actually believe that "lockdowns"-- and it's always worth noting that there actually weren't lockdowns in this country; aside from nursing homes; people were free to come and go as they pleased; not so in, for example, China, which actually locked down large portions of its population-- were greater in 2021 and later, under Biden, than they were in 2020 under Trump? That is an insane version of history.

With respect to prevalent masking, you might want to "do the research" on Japan, which it might shock you to learn is a different country than China.

You're attempting to make sense to an anti-science, anti-vax 🍊 🤡 💩 cultist.
In other words, it's a good attempt, but you're wasting your time.