Viruses / Vaccines 2

HughFreakingDillon

Nami said:

Smellyman said:

Nami said:

https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A

fer christ sakes

A 19 min video and it took you 8 minutes to respond from me posting.  Obviously you didn't watch the vid, so doctor's/ med group studies are no longer legit?
This guy is pretty good and has been promoting vaccination all along.

he's also been promoting covid misinformation all along, much of that information being utilized by covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers throughout the pandemic. 

lastexitlondon

Dr.  Campbell is a sound source.  Always has the  links to the studies and reports.

HughFreakingDillon

lastexitlondon said:

Dr.  Campbell is a sound source.  Always has the  links to the studies and reports.

COVID-19 misinformation

Further information: Ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic

In November 2021, Campbell said in a video that ivermectin might have been responsible for a sudden decline in COVID-19 cases in Japan. However, the drug had never been officially authorised for such use in the country; its use was merely promoted by the chair of a non-governmental medical association in Tokyo, and it has no established benefit as a COVID-19 treatment.[3] Meaghan Kall, the lead epidemiologist for COVID-19 at the UK Health Security Agency, said that Campbell was confusing causation and correlation. Further, Kall said that there was no evidence of ivermectin being used in large numbers in Japan; rather, she said it "appears this was based on anecdata on social media driving wildly damaging misinformation".[3]

In November 2021, Campbell quoted from a non-peer-reviewed journal abstract by Steven Gundry saying that mRNA vaccines might cause heart problems.[4] Campbell's video was viewed over 2 million times within a few weeks and was used by anti-vaccination activists as support for the misinformation that COVID-19 vaccination will cause a wave of heart attacks.[4] According to a FactCheck review, Campbell had in his video drawn attention to typos in the abstract, and a lack of methodology and data, but he did not mention the expression of concern that had been published for the abstract, saying instead that it could be "incredibly significant".[4]

A popular misconception throughout the pandemic has been that deaths have been overreported.[14] In January 2022, Campbell posted a Youtube video in which he cited figures from the UK's Office of National Statistics (ONS) suggesting they showed deaths from COVID-19 were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating" and concentrated on a figure of 17,371 death certificates where only COVID-19 was recorded as a cause of death. Within a few days the video had been viewed over 1.5 million times.[15] It was shared by British Conservative politician David Davis who called it "excellent" and said that it was "disentangling the statistics", and American comedian Jimmy Dore used it to claim that COVID-19 deaths had been overreported and that it proved the public had been the victim of a "scaremongering campaign".[16][14] The ONS responded by debunking the claims as spurious and wrong.[17] An ONS spokesman said "to suggest that [the 17,000] figure represents the real extent of deaths from the virus is both factually incorrect and highly misleading".[16] The official figure for COVID-19-related deaths in the UK for the period was over 175,000.[14][18]

mrussel1

lastexitlondon said:

Dr.  Campbell is a sound source.  Always has the  links to the studies and reports.

Did he link to all of the peer reviewed studies that show it does not help at all?

lastexitlondon

Yes  he has long said it doesnt.  

mrussel1

lastexitlondon said:

Yes  he has long said it doesnt.  

Well this is literally the conclusion of the You Tube video:

Ivermectin use was associated with decreased mortality in patients with COVID-19 compared to remdesivir.

This contradicts many other peer reviewed studies. 

To be honest, I don't give a damn.  If I was that sick, I'd choose Remdesivir without question, considering that was actually studied and developed for COVID, vs being an anti-parasitic.  Why some people are so personally invested in Invermectin is just completely beyond me.  

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

mrussel1

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

mcgruff10

God it feels good teaching without a mask.  I can actually project my voice across the room!!!!

cincybearcat

mcgruff10 said:

God it feels good teaching without a mask.  I can actually project my voice across the room!!!!

And lots of other things!

JeBurkhardt

My wife has been told that she might be teaching Summer school for the first time this year. Normally there is a class or two that is taught at the high school to help a few kids who might need some extra work to make sure they are ready for the Fall. This Summer is going to have multiple classes going. A large number of students need the extra help due to a back sliding of educational progress that has resulted from the past 2 years. She was told it was a strong possibility that it would be the next couple of Summers as well, depending on the progress that is made next academic year. She didn't say anything about the plans for the elementary and Jr high schools.

jwhjr17

PJNB said:

oftenreading said:

PJNB said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

tish said:

Canada's Dr.Tam (top doc) says future school closures and gathering limits not likely should next variant escape vaccine because we have treatments and rapid tests now. Says to keeps masks at hand for first line of defense.

curious, have each province lifted most or all capacity limits?

march 15 in manitoba the vaccine passport and masking, and even isolating when covid positive are done. our medical experts are especially not happy about the last two. 

Not isolating when you have a contagious disease that can be deadly to some is ridiculous, and also just plain rude. I hope people continue to do the right thing and stay home when they’re sick. 

What about the families that are barely making ends meet and can't stay at home for a week without pay? 

If you're hoping that I have an answer for economic disparities that predate the pandemic by centuries then you're sadly mistaken. 

We need to be honest with ourselves that we're not lifting these different restrictions because the pandemic is over, we're lifting them because people are tired of them. We are not yet at the endemic stage, but even when we are it doesn't mean that there will be no or few deaths, it just means that the pattern of spread and the impact of infections will be more predictable and more manageable.

It didn't make sense to go into work while sick with a highly infectious disease before the pandemic, and it won't make sense after the pandemic. 

My point is what works for you might not work for others. If you have a job that allowed you to work from home the last two years and when you go back you have payed sick days you are going to look at things differently then a single parent working 3 jobs and barely getting by and can't afford to take the time off. I am not asking you to have an answer for economic disparities but rather sympathize for those that need to work even while sick. I would not call them rude for wanting to provide for their family. 


Also I disagree with the fact that governments are lifting restrictions mainly because people are tired of them. That would give people the sense that the truckers actually made an impact on the decision making going on the last couple of months. The science has dictated these restrictions from the start and will continue to hopefully do so. 

Sadly I thought that at the start, but I think it's been made painfully obvious that hasn't been the case as time went on.

mickeyrat

6 million deaths

US has 984k

tempo_n_groove

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

mickeyrat

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

this is a partial reason....

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

As Mick points it is certainly population (particularly with CA), but it could be the pattern of the virus,  unvax rate,  basically all of these issues together. 

I'm pretty sure NY got omicron first.  It gets everything first m

Halifax2TheMax

Age, co-morbidities and vaccination rates all come into play.

Florida has fully vaccinated 14,190,955 people,

covering 69.7% of the eligible population, 5 and older...

and 66.1% of the state’s entire population.

5,475,277 people have received a booster shot,

covering 38.6% of fully vaccinated people. Read the methodology

California has fully vaccinated 27,906,011 people,

covering 75.3% of the eligible population, 5 and older...

and 70.6% of the state’s entire population.

13,578,690 people have received a booster shot,

covering 48.7% of fully vaccinated people. Read the methodology

New York has fully vaccinated 14,727,470 people,

covering 80.3% of the eligible population, 5 and older...

and 75.7% of the state’s entire population.

6,512,229 people have received a booster shot,

covering 44.2% of fully vaccinated people. Read the methodology

Covid-related deaths in Florida are decreasing

Florida currently has a higher seven-day average death rate than the U.S. overall.

New deaths reported per day

At least 71,326 have been reported since Feb. 29, 2020.

Covid-related deaths in California are decreasing

California currently has a lower seven-day average death rate than the U.S. overall.

New deaths reported per day

At least 85,849 have been reported since Feb. 29, 2020.

Covid-related deaths in New York are decreasing

New York currently has a lower seven-day average death rate than the U.S. overall.

New deaths reported per day

At least 67,298 have been reported since Feb. 29, 2020.

Population of Flo Rida (2021): 21,781,128

Population of California (2021): 39,237,836

Population of New York (2021): 19,835,913

Bentleyspop

https://twitter.com/TheGoodLiars/status/1500902909478903818?t=XqKs05pMSouZ2gMI2Y0QSQ&s=19

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

this is a partial reason....

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

As Mick points it is certainly population (particularly with CA), but it could be the pattern of the virus,  unvax rate,  basically all of these issues together. 

I'm pretty sure NY got omicron first.  It gets everything first m

The math doesn't add up.  Florida has almost as many people as NY and a 500% increase in deaths.  California has double NY population and also a 500% increase in deaths.

Pennsylvania, Ohio and Illinois have about the same population, less than NY and double Covid deaths.

The numbers on this fascinate me.  I wonder about population density, restrictions, timeline, masking and vaxing.

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

this is a partial reason....

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Covid deaths have been decreasing for a year,  the last few months have dropped like a rock.  It's time to make this endemic.

The focus in the news medias shifted a while ago on how many new cases rather than deaths.  Now?  I don't hear a peep on the news about numbers anymore.

We can't "make" something endemic. There is a specific definition for endemic, just like for pandemic and epidemic. 

A disease is considered endemic when it's present in a way that's a relatively stable and predictable pattern. Does anyone really think we can say that about covid-19 yet? This is what I mean when I say that people want to drop the restrictions because they're tired of them, not because of scientific realities. 

Taking BC as an example, hospitalizations are down significantly, but they're still higher than at any time in the pandemic before December 1, 2021. Deaths are also down, but again higher than any time prior to the end of last year. 

Deaths and serious illness dropping significantly is a good thing, of course. That doesn't mean the pandemic isn't still with us. 

I think where a locality or region is will vary greatly.  Tempo is in NYC and that was hit early and hard even by Omicron.  That's also true of where I am (VA).  Because of our proximity to the NE (population center of the US), things hit us early too.  This variant was raging in December and has fallen off the cliff. 

Seven day average of cases: 975
Seven day average of deaths: 31

While I understand your point that calling something endemic is a scientific conclusion, not a political or social one,  let me be heartless here.  While this variant isn't a disease of the unvaxxed, it is orders of magnitude more dangerous for the unvaxxed.  Everyone who wants a vaccine can get one.  I can't be worried about those people anymore.   We have excellent treatments as well.  So I can tell you sitting here in VA, I'm quite comfortable with the removal of masks in schools, stores, etc. at this point.  

So what I find odd is that a place like California and Florida still have a bunch of deaths, 1200 each for the past 7 days.  NY had 200.  Now I'm not sure of vaccination rates or because it hit us first or not but that is a huge difference.

As Mick points it is certainly population (particularly with CA), but it could be the pattern of the virus,  unvax rate,  basically all of these issues together. 

I'm pretty sure NY got omicron first.  It gets everything first m

The math doesn't add up.  Florida has almost as many people as NY and a 500% increase in deaths.  California has double NY population and also a 500% increase in deaths.

Pennsylvania, Ohio and Illinois have about the same population, less than NY and double Covid deaths.

The numbers on this fascinate me.  I wonder about population density, restrictions, timeline, masking and vaxing.

not to mention the age difference in the southern states as compared to NY.