I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.
I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.
I wonder what would have happened had people not gotten the vaccine….if deaths would be up….if the risk to the elderly and at risk individuals would have been greater….
It’s a bit weird to think it’s ok for at risk people to just deal with it without the help of society. It would be really interesting though to see the multiverse of this…
I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.
so you agree being vaccinated does cut down transmission. and no, you can't infer the same of unvaxxed. you are more likely to not become infected if vaxxed as opposed to unvaxxed. simple science. proven science.
I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.
I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.
so you agree being vaccinated does cut down transmission. and no, you can't infer the same of unvaxxed. you are more likely to not become infected if vaxxed as opposed to unvaxxed. simple science. proven science.
I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.
You are also less likely to become infected with natural immunity, albeit not to as great of a degree as vaccination.
"Time to move on" from judging the unvaxxed. It has really gotten us nowhere and at best has contributed to deepening the divide in so called western liberal societies. I'm especially referring to the decision to reinstate those who were forced out of work and give them back pay. Seems like a good idea. I think some of these things like forced unemployment contributed to more distrust and as I said deepened the division or created another reason for division in our currently fragile society, in addition to downstream effects like adding to supply chain issues and lack of staff for in demand public facing jobs like sanitation, fire, policing, healthcare(yes even some healthcare professionals chose to be unvaccinated) etc. These people aren't Nazis or Trump Supporters or alt rights as a group, it is many different parts of society, naturalists, homeopaths, hippies as well as all the rest. It is easy to vilify and point blame at these people specifically after a rough time where we were all scared and filled with uncertainty, but they didn't create the disease or the underlying lack of infrastructure to deal with it more effectively.
Knowing what we know now it seems like allowing those who would like the vaccine to have access, prioritizing access to older and at risk people with underlying conditions while letting those with different choices as it comes to healthcare fend for themselves seems pretty ok. If people wish to be at a greater risk, or believe they have a superior immune system, good for them. With the vaccines being as effective as they are it seems that the unvaccinated are ok with their risk factor, so why shouldn't the rest of us.
If it comes to a matter of hospital beds and staffing, look at the statistics regarding the reduction of hospital beds in western countries and especially in the US since the 70s and how this phenomenon correlates with corporate mergers in the healthcare industry meant to increase profit and the rise of the health insurance industry and revenue generating outpatient procedures. We base our health care system on markets and investor dividends rather than public health.
I know people in Texas who would regularly be dyed in the wool Democrat voters that will be voting for Abbott because they don't want the state to shut down if covid ramps up like so many D governed states have in the past. I think this is ridiculous of course, but these are lost Beto votes because some otherwise liberal people viewed some of the covid measures as government overreach. I'm not going to stop talking to these people, because even though I don't agree with them I understand where they are coming from.
"America’s now-disastrous lack of hospital capacity is no accident. It is, in part, a result of consolidation over the past 30 years that concentrated our health-care system in wealthy cities and suburbs, where the prevalence of expensive insurance plans allowed big health systems to rake in profits. There have been more than 680 hospital mergers over the past decade, a trend that is likely to accelerate in the coming years. It involves mergers between hospital systems, as well as large hospital conglomerates’ takeovers of rural hospitals, physician offices, ambulatory surgical centers and other outpatient clinics.
Under a Clinton-era rule, the Federal Trade Commission, which since the mid-1970s has been in charge of policing the health-care industry, will not challenge a merger in which either of the hospital groups has fewer than 100 beds, sidelining the agency when big hospital groups snap up smaller rural facilities. Edith Ramirez, the head of the FTC during the Obama administration, said the agency challenged just 1 percent of all hospital deals.
The wave of takeovers the FTC oversaw has contributed to the loss of rural hospitals and a decline in the number of beds across the country. Today, there are about 15 percent fewer community hospitals in the United States than in the mid-1970s; since 2010, about a dozen merged rural hospitals have shuttered. The impact of hospital consolidation is particularly painful in the context of the pandemic: Mergers and closures have contributed to the reduction in hospital beds in the United States, from around 1.5 million in 1975 to just more than 900,000 in 2017.
Further exacerbating the effects of these mergers, at least 120 rural hospitals have shuttered over the past decade. The loss of providers is a result of a number of factors, including shrinking populations in rural areas. But consolidation has played a part. The Affordable Care Act increased the pace of consolidation, and the hospital industry is now highly concentrated in 90 percent of all U.S. cities, according to a Commonwealth Fund study. These mergers and rural closures have moved decision-making further and further away from the communities most affected.
Rural hospitals in particular have struggled for myriad reasons, including the decision of many Southern and Midwestern states to not expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. In fact, none of the six states with the greatest number of hospital closures since 2010 (Texas, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and North Carolina) expanded Medicaid, resulting in a health landscape where patients are in worse health and have fewer providers to treat them.
Recent studies have shown that even before covid-19 began to strain rural health systems, 1 out of every 5 rural hospitals was at risk of closing because of financial pressure. Part of this pressure comes from sicker patient populations that are more likely to rely on Medicare or Medicaid, which have lower reimbursement rates than private insurance does. That has made for an underlying health crisis upon which the covid-19 pandemic is now layered. If hospitals had not undergone such sweeping consolidation over the past decades, our health-care system probably would be better equipped for the outbreak now. “It is definitely a piece of the overall puzzle,” says Dunc Williams, who researched rural hospital mergers and closures at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
This trend is just one example of the increase in corporate power that has characterized the economy over the past few decades. It has also hurt patient care and driven up patient and insurer costs — which means more cash for already-wealthy hospital conglomerates and the executives who run them.
The latest hospital merger wave has been fueled by the financial sector’s influence in the health sector. Investors have pressured hospitals to cut costs, buy their rivals and then raise profits by imposing a largely outpatient health-care model. Outpatient hospital prices have grown four times faster than what doctors charge — a trend that has both reduced beds and propelled hospitals’ frenzied takeover of independent physician groups. Between 2016 and 2018, hospitals acquired more than 8,000 doctors groups."
I hope the rest of the country follows suit. Trying to remove people from participating in society and having a livelihood for their family always seemed like a bad and divisive move. Especially when we found out that covid still transmits between vaccinated people, natural immunity actually works and the people with the worst outcomes were the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Oh and that we may have had so many more deaths here partly because health insurance companies have taken over healthcare and private equity companies have closed hospitals in the name of maximizing profits while reducing general medicine availability in favor of revenue generating electives and out patient procedures. At least it is easy and doesn't require any thought to blame those people that had different ideas about the vaccines and pandemic.
“Several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection,” it states, “Uninfected people cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission.”
Interesting you posted this as I never stated that being vaccinated does not cut down on transmission I stated that you can still spread covid even if vaccinated. By the same data you provided one could infer that unvaccinated individuals that are not infected also can't transmit, therefore being unvaccinated and uninfected is effective at preventing transmission. We are several years into this and people with up to 3 boosters are still getting and spreading covid. People that were never vaccinated are still getting and spreading covid and surviving. We are also at a point where severity of outcomes is much lower than at the start of the pandemic. I am vaccinated and was in favor of some of the more draconian public health measures that took place at the beginning. At this point I am really rethinking my stance. Now I am of the view that if you got the vaccine, great, if you didn't that's great too. It really is time to move on.
so you agree being vaccinated does cut down transmission. and no, you can't infer the same of unvaxxed. you are more likely to not become infected if vaxxed as opposed to unvaxxed. simple science. proven science.
I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.
BS??
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I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.
In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough
At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.
In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...
Now, I don't give a shit.
The same. Those first few weeks I was wiping everydamn thing down and then maybe even wiping it down again when I pulled it out of the fridge.
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough
I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough
I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.
Glad you're feeling better though.
Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough
I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.
Glad you're feeling better though.
Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.
Twice in 3 months? I thought immunity lasted longer than that? Wow.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,936
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough
I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.
Glad you're feeling better though.
Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.
Twice in 3 months? I thought immunity lasted longer than that? Wow.
suppose variant comes into play.
although my doc suggested 6 months between boosters or booster 3 months after postive infection.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Now it’s about just talking care of number 1 for me and family, wear mask and keep safe, I’m just getting over my 1st bout with COVID and even though I’m triple vaccinated it wasn’t anything to just brush off.
How bad was it Jose? I was sick for only a day, sluggish for two after that then fine.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
It def took me by surprise at how my head was affected! Today is my 6th day out and last night I still felt cloudy and still have a slight cough
I had a dumb cough two months after so possibly expect that. The fog lifted for me after a few days thankfully. I know others had/still have it. Let's hope yours goes away soon.
Glad you're feeling better though.
Thanks Chris! My wife has gotten it twice in three months I def don’t want it again so I’ll be careful about my whereabouts.
Twice in 3 months? I thought immunity lasted longer than that? Wow.
suppose variant comes into play.
although my doc suggested 6 months between boosters or booster 3 months after postive infection.
Yep now I have to wait 3 months to get my 2nd booster so does my wife, I can get the flu shot on Monday when I go back to work.
At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.
In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...
Now, I don't give a shit.
The same. Those first few weeks I was wiping everydamn thing down and then maybe even wiping it down again when I pulled it out of the fridge.
I was washing and sanitizing my hands more than usual, but that's about it. I wasn't wiping anything down that I couldn't tell was dirty.
I think you're probably right about the forced unemployment thing. At the time, I think it was justified because of what we knew/didn't know during that time period. Too many people are judging last year's actions with this year's knowledge, and that just doesn't make any sense. But I have no issue with back pay for those that lost their jobs.
Oddly, my workplace STILL advertises job postings with a vaxxed requirement, which surprises me, especially with the job market today, plus, they aren't exactly forcing current employees from proving they've gotten boosters, so someone who got one dose 2 years ago is at the same immunity level as a non vaxxed, so it's pretty stupid. Unless they are just keeping it that way in case of a new surge/variant/etc. Not sure.
At this point I too don't care if you're vaxxed or not.
In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...
Now, I don't give a shit.
The same. Those first few weeks I was wiping everydamn thing down and then maybe even wiping it down again when I pulled it out of the fridge.
I was washing and sanitizing my hands more than usual, but that's about it. I wasn't wiping anything down that I couldn't tell was dirty.
I think you're probably right about the forced unemployment thing. At the time, I think it was justified because of what we knew/didn't know during that time period. Too many people are judging last year's actions with this year's knowledge, and that just doesn't make any sense. But I have no issue with back pay for those that lost their jobs.
Oddly, my workplace STILL advertises job postings with a vaxxed requirement, which surprises me, especially with the job market today, plus, they aren't exactly forcing current employees from proving they've gotten boosters, so someone who got one dose 2 years ago is at the same immunity level as a non vaxxed, so it's pretty stupid. Unless they are just keeping it that way in case of a new surge/variant/etc. Not sure.
Agreed.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,936
Updated October 28, 2022 at 5:45 p.m. EDT|Published October 28, 2022 at 11:00 a.m. EDT
Influenza
is hitting the United States unusually early and hard, resulting in the
most hospitalizations at this point in the season in more than a decade
and underscoring the potential for a perilous winter of respiratory
viruses, according to federal health data released Friday.
While
flu season is usually between October and May, peaking in December and
January, it’s arrived about six weeks earlier this year with
uncharacteristically high illness. There have already been at least
880,000 cases of influenza illness, 6,900 hospitalizations and 360
flu-related deaths nationally, including one child, according to
estimates released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
As most repubs thought, I think you mean? What did the Bullshit Detector in that other thread say about "absence of evidence?" Seems just as likely that gRANDstanding Paul is teeing up investigations. I look forward to Gym Jordan's mile a minute screaming word salads.
Senate Republican staffers have produced a report laying out their argument that the “most likely” origin of the coronaviruspandemic was some kind of “research-related incident” in China, citing safety lapses in laboratories there and arguing that there are evidentiary gaps in published scientific research that points to a natural origin from animals sold at a market in Wuhan.
The report, while not a formal scientific document, represents a possible template for a future investigatory hearing in Congress if Republicans gain control ofthe House or Senate — or both — following the midterm elections. The so-called “lab leak” theory is a talking point for some Republicans seeking office, and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) has promised hearings if his party wins the Senate.
The 35-page “interim” report released Thursday comes from Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Republican staffers on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, which has been probing the origin of the virus.
Although the report favors the “lab leak” origin, it does not rule out a market origin. The report also does not indulge the more provocative arguments for how SARS-CoV-2 entered the human population. There is no claim that the virus was engineered as a bioweapon, for example.
Nor does it mention Anthony S. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who has been a frequent target of Paul and other lab-leak proponents because his institute helped fund virus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
The report’s conclusions diverge sharply from those of two peer-reviewed studies published in the journal Science this summer that presented the case for the Huanan Seafood Market as the epicenter of the outbreak. One study found a geographical bull’s eye on the market among early cases of the disease that came to be called covid-19. The other study presented an analysis of two early strains of the virus suggesting that there were two and maybe many more distinct spillovers of the virus from animals sold at the market.
Scientists favoring the market origin do not know which animals were infected or where they came from. No animals at the market were tested before the market was closed and cleaned.
“Critical corroborating evidence of a natural zoonotic spillover is missing. While the absence of evidence is not itself evidence, the lack of corroborating evidence of a zoonotic spillover or spillovers, three years into the pandemic, is highly problematic,” the new GOP report states.
Michael Worobey, a professor at the University of Arizona who co-authored both studies published in Science, said the new GOP report “gets the science completely wrong.”
“As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics,” he said.
Worobey said the hypothesis of some kind of laboratory incident was worth investigating, and he was among the scientists who wrote a letter to Science in May 2021 arguing that all possible origins should be probed. But he said his investigations and those of other scientists point to a market origin.
He said he is willing to testify if the Republicans call hearings.
David Relman, a professor of medicine at Stanford University who was one of the experts interviewed by the committee staff, praised the report as a credible effort to pull together a great deal of information, including on safety issues at Chinese laboratories.
“I think it’s a sober and fair treatment of what is largely a body of circumstantial evidence that makes the case for both hypotheses,” Relman said. “But in particular raises questions about the assumption that a natural spillover must have been the cause.”
Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at the University of Saskatchewan and co-author of one of the Science papers, dismissed the new GOP report as “speculative hand-waving” and views it as a partisan document.
“This is in service of trying to set up something that would be politically advantageous for one party,” she said. “It’s to make it easier to have essentially show trials for people’s adversaries, which has unfortunately come to include scientists.”
Im not sure on usa politics or uk really. But just some clear truth would be nice. In hindsight its easier to see. But all this stuff thats factual around now after the event needs to be clear. Because when the next one comes the world needs information to be clear
brixton 93
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albany 06
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reading 06
barcelona 06
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
https://nypost.com/2022/10/25/judge-tosses-nyc-vaccine-mandate-orders-workers-backpay/
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298
www.headstonesband.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
It’s a bit weird to think it’s ok for at risk people to just deal with it without the help of society. It would be really interesting though to see the multiverse of this…
I really don't give a shit if anyone gets vaxxed at this point. I'm just stating what I've seen of the science as it evolves. In another thread I got attacked for asking someone to clarify some info (ironically being told I was ABOUT to attack that person, like some preemptive strike of some sort). But this person posted BS. And people should expect to be called out on it. every single time.
I'm not sure what you mean by "time to move on". you don't seem to be saying "don't get vaccinated" but if that's not it, what are you inferring? At least where I am, there are zero covid restrictions in place, and haven't been for months. save for doctor and dental offices. Everything is completely mask-optional and no vaccine requirements.
www.headstonesband.com
"Time to move on" from judging the unvaxxed. It has really gotten us nowhere and at best has contributed to deepening the divide in so called western liberal societies. I'm especially referring to the decision to reinstate those who were forced out of work and give them back pay. Seems like a good idea. I think some of these things like forced unemployment contributed to more distrust and as I said deepened the division or created another reason for division in our currently fragile society, in addition to downstream effects like adding to supply chain issues and lack of staff for in demand public facing jobs like sanitation, fire, policing, healthcare(yes even some healthcare professionals chose to be unvaccinated) etc. These people aren't Nazis or Trump Supporters or alt rights as a group, it is many different parts of society, naturalists, homeopaths, hippies as well as all the rest. It is easy to vilify and point blame at these people specifically after a rough time where we were all scared and filled with uncertainty, but they didn't create the disease or the underlying lack of infrastructure to deal with it more effectively.
Knowing what we know now it seems like allowing those who would like the vaccine to have access, prioritizing access to older and at risk people with underlying conditions while letting those with different choices as it comes to healthcare fend for themselves seems pretty ok. If people wish to be at a greater risk, or believe they have a superior immune system, good for them. With the vaccines being as effective as they are it seems that the unvaccinated are ok with their risk factor, so why shouldn't the rest of us.
I know people in Texas who would regularly be dyed in the wool Democrat voters that will be voting for Abbott because they don't want the state to shut down if covid ramps up like so many D governed states have in the past. I think this is ridiculous of course, but these are lost Beto votes because some otherwise liberal people viewed some of the covid measures as government overreach. I'm not going to stop talking to these people, because even though I don't agree with them I understand where they are coming from.
"America’s now-disastrous lack of hospital capacity is no accident. It is, in part, a result of consolidation over the past 30 years that concentrated our health-care system in wealthy cities and suburbs, where the prevalence of expensive insurance plans allowed big health systems to rake in profits. There have been more than 680 hospital mergers over the past decade, a trend that is likely to accelerate in the coming years. It involves mergers between hospital systems, as well as large hospital conglomerates’ takeovers of rural hospitals, physician offices, ambulatory surgical centers and other outpatient clinics.
Under a Clinton-era rule, the Federal Trade Commission, which since the mid-1970s has been in charge of policing the health-care industry, will not challenge a merger in which either of the hospital groups has fewer than 100 beds, sidelining the agency when big hospital groups snap up smaller rural facilities. Edith Ramirez, the head of the FTC during the Obama administration, said the agency challenged just 1 percent of all hospital deals.
The wave of takeovers the FTC oversaw has contributed to the loss of rural hospitals and a decline in the number of beds across the country. Today, there are about 15 percent fewer community hospitals in the United States than in the mid-1970s; since 2010, about a dozen merged rural hospitals have shuttered. The impact of hospital consolidation is particularly painful in the context of the pandemic: Mergers and closures have contributed to the reduction in hospital beds in the United States, from around 1.5 million in 1975 to just more than 900,000 in 2017.
Further exacerbating the effects of these mergers, at least 120 rural hospitals have shuttered over the past decade. The loss of providers is a result of a number of factors, including shrinking populations in rural areas. But consolidation has played a part. The Affordable Care Act increased the pace of consolidation, and the hospital industry is now highly concentrated in 90 percent of all U.S. cities, according to a Commonwealth Fund study. These mergers and rural closures have moved decision-making further and further away from the communities most affected.
Rural hospitals in particular have struggled for myriad reasons, including the decision of many Southern and Midwestern states to not expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. In fact, none of the six states with the greatest number of hospital closures since 2010 (Texas, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and North Carolina) expanded Medicaid, resulting in a health landscape where patients are in worse health and have fewer providers to treat them.
Recent studies have shown that even before covid-19 began to strain rural health systems, 1 out of every 5 rural hospitals was at risk of closing because of financial pressure. Part of this pressure comes from sicker patient populations that are more likely to rely on Medicare or Medicaid, which have lower reimbursement rates than private insurance does. That has made for an underlying health crisis upon which the covid-19 pandemic is now layered. If hospitals had not undergone such sweeping consolidation over the past decades, our health-care system probably would be better equipped for the outbreak now. “It is definitely a piece of the overall puzzle,” says Dunc Williams, who researched rural hospital mergers and closures at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
This trend is just one example of the increase in corporate power that has characterized the economy over the past few decades. It has also hurt patient care and driven up patient and insurer costs — which means more cash for already-wealthy hospital conglomerates and the executives who run them.
The latest hospital merger wave has been fueled by the financial sector’s influence in the health sector. Investors have pressured hospitals to cut costs, buy their rivals and then raise profits by imposing a largely outpatient health-care model. Outpatient hospital prices have grown four times faster than what doctors charge — a trend that has both reduced beds and propelled hospitals’ frenzied takeover of independent physician groups. Between 2016 and 2018, hospitals acquired more than 8,000 doctors groups."
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
In the beginning when not much was known about it we all did what we thought was right. Maybe it was a little obsessive, I mean I wiped down EVERYTHING i bought at the supermarket...
Now, I don't give a shit.
It amazes me how this hits people differently.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Glad you're feeling better though.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think you're probably right about the forced unemployment thing. At the time, I think it was justified because of what we knew/didn't know during that time period. Too many people are judging last year's actions with this year's knowledge, and that just doesn't make any sense. But I have no issue with back pay for those that lost their jobs.
Oddly, my workplace STILL advertises job postings with a vaxxed requirement, which surprises me, especially with the job market today, plus, they aren't exactly forcing current employees from proving they've gotten boosters, so someone who got one dose 2 years ago is at the same immunity level as a non vaxxed, so it's pretty stupid. Unless they are just keeping it that way in case of a new surge/variant/etc. Not sure.
www.headstonesband.com
So far, this flu season is more severe than it has been in 13 years
Influenza is hitting the United States unusually early and hard, resulting in the most hospitalizations at this point in the season in more than a decade and underscoring the potential for a perilous winter of respiratory viruses, according to federal health data released Friday.
While flu season is usually between October and May, peaking in December and January, it’s arrived about six weeks earlier this year with uncharacteristically high illness. There have already been at least 880,000 cases of influenza illness, 6,900 hospitalizations and 360 flu-related deaths nationally, including one child, according to estimates released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
continues.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
As most people thought
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Senate Republican staffers have produced a report laying out their argument that the “most likely” origin of the coronavirus pandemic was some kind of “research-related incident” in China, citing safety lapses in laboratories there and arguing that there are evidentiary gaps in published scientific research that points to a natural origin from animals sold at a market in Wuhan.
The report, while not a formal scientific document, represents a possible template for a future investigatory hearing in Congress if Republicans gain control of the House or Senate — or both — following the midterm elections. The so-called “lab leak” theory is a talking point for some Republicans seeking office, and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) has promised hearings if his party wins the Senate.
The 35-page “interim” report released Thursday comes from Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Republican staffers on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, which has been probing the origin of the virus.
Although the report favors the “lab leak” origin, it does not rule out a market origin. The report also does not indulge the more provocative arguments for how SARS-CoV-2 entered the human population. There is no claim that the virus was engineered as a bioweapon, for example.
Nor does it mention Anthony S. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who has been a frequent target of Paul and other lab-leak proponents because his institute helped fund virus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
For those still trying to duck covid, the isolation is worse than ever
The report’s conclusions diverge sharply from those of two peer-reviewed studies published in the journal Science this summer that presented the case for the Huanan Seafood Market as the epicenter of the outbreak. One study found a geographical bull’s eye on the market among early cases of the disease that came to be called covid-19. The other study presented an analysis of two early strains of the virus suggesting that there were two and maybe many more distinct spillovers of the virus from animals sold at the market.
Scientists favoring the market origin do not know which animals were infected or where they came from. No animals at the market were tested before the market was closed and cleaned.
“Critical corroborating evidence of a natural zoonotic spillover is missing. While the absence of evidence is not itself evidence, the lack of corroborating evidence of a zoonotic spillover or spillovers, three years into the pandemic, is highly problematic,” the new GOP report states.
Michael Worobey, a professor at the University of Arizona who co-authored both studies published in Science, said the new GOP report “gets the science completely wrong.”
“As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics,” he said.
Worobey said the hypothesis of some kind of laboratory incident was worth investigating, and he was among the scientists who wrote a letter to Science in May 2021 arguing that all possible origins should be probed. But he said his investigations and those of other scientists point to a market origin.
He said he is willing to testify if the Republicans call hearings.
David Relman, a professor of medicine at Stanford University who was one of the experts interviewed by the committee staff, praised the report as a credible effort to pull together a great deal of information, including on safety issues at Chinese laboratories.
“I think it’s a sober and fair treatment of what is largely a body of circumstantial evidence that makes the case for both hypotheses,” Relman said. “But in particular raises questions about the assumption that a natural spillover must have been the cause.”
Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at the University of Saskatchewan and co-author of one of the Science papers, dismissed the new GOP report as “speculative hand-waving” and views it as a partisan document.
“This is in service of trying to set up something that would be politically advantageous for one party,” she said. “It’s to make it easier to have essentially show trials for people’s adversaries, which has unfortunately come to include scientists.”
Covid lab leak theory supported in report from Senate Republicans - The Washington Post
Report An Analysis of the Origins of COVID-19 (senate.gov)
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Thanks for posting.
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..