100%. I stopped caring about GA/ up front many years ago for any concert. Having a seat is perfect, got my space, place to set my beer, rock a little, go piss and come back when I need, etc, etc, etc... Fun easy night for enjoying music.
Same...we were either going to hang out near the back of the GA crowd or grab the bleachers and we opted for the bleachers. I imagine it wasn't too bad near the back but I don't like having to search for my wife (or her for me) after I grab a beer or go to the bathroom.
We grabbed aisle seats on the bleachers about 6 rows up both night for encore weekend and it was great. Sounded great, screens made everything close and I could jump up, grab a beer, and be right back in my same spot in about two minutes. The Fri night bleacher crowd around us was kind of lame but Sat night was awesome.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
100%. I stopped caring about GA/ up front many years ago for any concert. Having a seat is perfect, got my space, place to set my beer, rock a little, go piss and come back when I need, etc, etc, etc... Fun easy night for enjoying music.
Same...we were either going to hang out near the back of the GA crowd or grab the bleachers and we opted for the bleachers. I imagine it wasn't too bad near the back but I don't like having to search for my wife (or her for me) after I grab a beer or go to the bathroom.
We grabbed aisle seats on the bleachers about 6 rows up both night for encore weekend and it was great. Sounded great, screens made everything close and I could jump up, grab a beer, and be right back in my same spot in about two minutes. The Fri night bleacher crowd around us was kind of lame but Sat night was awesome.
We were in the bleachers too Saturday night. Had a great group around us. 4 rows back on the mid-left side of the bleachers facing the stage. The bleachers were bouncing and it was a lot of fun.
I am not one to push my way to the front, I find it rude. That being said it's GA and unless you are on the rail or right behind the rail where u can lock in, don't expect much at a festival.
Maybe it's better at US shows with GA where it's all 10c? I always go seats.
I think the civilized way to go about it (and not that most people are civilized 8 drinks in on a hot day) is that you can walk to any space in GA as long as you don't need to touch someone or say excuse me on your way to that space. I'll usually walk through a random path to find a decent spot, and that's where I'll be. No need to be close to others or the band, and once I'm there, that is where I'll remain for the show.
occasionally if in GA and there's enough room to squeeze by easily without pissing people off I'll do it. but I'm not shouldering people to get by. Sometimes I'll ask, and if they say no, I just leave it and enjoy where I'm at.
The amount of people "looking for friends" Friday night (and I'm sure every night) was ridiculous. We went to main stage around 5:00 and were probably 40-50 feet back. Half way through Beck It was a constant barrage of those claiming to be finding their friends and shoving their way through. Funny how many quickly gave up "finding their friends" and stopped somewhere in front of us. Some friends!! lol The bad acting is what made it actually kind of funny. Saturday we choose the bleachers so we didn't have to deal with that. The sound was awesome from the bleachers and a bit more relaxed atmosphere.
I think it is a combination of west coast attitude and inexperience. Love the folks that show up at 8pm with five plates of nachos and beers trying to find their friends.I honestly think many of those folks have never been to a GA festival before and mistook this for the Catalina Wine Mixer. We had a few of those guys show up and try to stand in front of us, we just politely said, "VIP is that way keep moving please!"
If I want to get close at an all GA event I'm either all the way in the back or on a side rail. It's great when you have a rail and no one is trying to get in front of you because people do suck, lol.
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,226
People who are saying seats are better must have good 10c #s!
I sure don't have a great number. But people who act like entitled jackasses really get me agitated, and I admit I have a hard time letting go of that irritation. That would ruin my enjoyment of the show, so I'd rather just have my little assigned spot in the seats. We tried GA for the 2018 Europe shows: it worked out well once (Prague), was pointless once (Krakow, where there seemed to be no 10C "pit" and lots of really tall people, LOL), and was annoying AF in Berlin, where we put in the time in line, chose seats that we liked, then had to deal with latecomers who were certain that if they shoved hard enough they could fit three or eight more people into our row (maybe if we all turned sideways?), force us off the aisle, etc. I'll stick with reserved seating from now on.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,226
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
People who are saying seats are better must have good 10c #s!
I sure don't have a great number. But people who act like entitled jackasses really get me agitated, and I admit I have a hard time letting go of that irritation. That would ruin my enjoyment of the show, so I'd rather just have my little assigned spot in the seats. We tried GA for the 2018 Europe shows: it worked out well once (Prague), was pointless once (Krakow, where there seemed to be no 10C "pit" and lots of really tall people, LOL), and was annoying AF in Berlin, where we put in the time in line, chose seats that we liked, then had to deal with latecomers who were certain that if they shoved hard enough they could fit three or eight more people into our row (maybe if we all turned sideways?), force us off the aisle, etc. I'll stick with reserved seating from now on.
yeah and it's inevitable that once you find a decent spot and lock in there will be some jackass that has no problem taking the 5 inch space between you and the person in front of you. When I get GA tickets for arena shows I just hang in the back. I'm perfectly happy back there.
The best shows I have been to were the reserved seating GA shows in 2010 where they did the 1st and 10th row lottery. I scored two 10th row tickets that tour (Noblesville and Columbus) and loved it.
Post edited by Gern Blansten on
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
yeah I feel for some people who might not travel much and don't understand the unwritten rules but holy shit.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
yeah I feel for some people who might not travel much and don't understand the unwritten rules but holy shit.
I knew those rules when I rode the bus at 7 years old.
Darwinspeed, all.
Cheers,
HFD
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,226
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
selfish assholes suck
I watch some of this behavior, and I think of Ed's "we're going to register Pearl Jam as a religion" monologue. There's just one rule, he said, just one: Don't be an asshole. It's really basic stuff, and it's not everyone, but it's too many people.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Reminds me of the people disembarking an airplane that ignore the exit by row rule. Some people are just stupid as hell.
One of those guys was on our shuttle on Friday. He was sitting in the back, and as soon as the bus stopped he made his way past rows of people who were just staring at him.
yeah I feel for some people who might not travel much and don't understand the unwritten rules but holy shit.
4 flights this weekend for Ohana. From Evansville Indiana to Atlanta, with connecting flight to San Diego on Friday, then the reverse on Sunday. I was pleasantly surprised that out of all of those flights, I only saw a couple of people who tried to be first off of the plane even though they were seated close to the back.
I like the line nazis Grown men and women telling others how to line up in the order that they came up with that morning with little to no logistical knowledge whatsoever. All so they can run to the rail after.
People who are saying seats are better must have good 10c #s!
I sure don't have a great number. But people who act like entitled jackasses really get me agitated, and I admit I have a hard time letting go of that irritation. That would ruin my enjoyment of the show, so I'd rather just have my little assigned spot in the seats. We tried GA for the 2018 Europe shows: it worked out well once (Prague), was pointless once (Krakow, where there seemed to be no 10C "pit" and lots of really tall people, LOL), and was annoying AF in Berlin, where we put in the time in line, chose seats that we liked, then had to deal with latecomers who were certain that if they shoved hard enough they could fit three or eight more people into our row (maybe if we all turned sideways?), force us off the aisle, etc. I'll stick with reserved seating from now on.
My number sucks as well. You can sometimes get better seats in public sale or fan to fan or TM verified, but regardless, give me my small bit of real estate and a place to sit down or stand depending on the song/mood.
PJ: 2013: London (ON); Buffalo; 2014: Cincinnati; 2016: Sunrise, Miami, Toronto 1-2, Wrigley 2; 2018: London (UK) 1, Milan, Padova, Sea 2, Wrigley 1-2, Fenway 1-2; 2021: SHN, Ohana, Ohana Encore 1-2; 2022: LA 1-2, Phx, Oak 1-2, Fresno, Copenhagen, Hyde Park 1-2; Quebec, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto; MSG, Camden, Nashville, Louisville, St. Louis, OKC; 2023: St. Paul 1-2, Chicago 1-2; Fort Worth 2; Austin 1-2
EV Solo: 2017 Louisville and Franklin, 2018 Ohana, 2019 Innings Fest, Berlin, Düsseldorf, Dublin and Ohana; 2021 Ohana Friday (from beach) and Saturday; 2022 Earthlings Newark; 2023 Innings Fest and Benoraya 1-2.
Gutted: London 2 2018, Sacramento 2022, Noblesville 2023
This kind of behavior at a G.A. show and/or festival is as old as G.A. shows and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Does it suck? Yes Will it stop? No
That's one of the reasons why old guys like me chose VIP
I'm old too but VIP isn't always a financial option for me. I'm also short, so GA really does a job on me if I want to see anything more than the back of someone's t-shirt.
I definitely opt for reserved seats (ideally on side close to the stage) when possible, but sometimes I just have to suck it up and realize I'll be far away. I still take far away reserved seats over GA pit, especially at an arena or bigger, because it's just...not... worth the hassle anymore.
But I still don't tolerate assholes either. My 12 yr old daughter saw her first "Mom's reaction when assholes almost trample her" at SHN, and we weren't anywhere near the front of the audience. Fortunately for most of the PJ set we had a little spontaneous community around us and even though I would have taken on the assholes who were literally trying to climb over people to get out of the beach part up to the boardwalk alone regardless (we were near a main stairway up on the boardwalk and many decided they would rather climb over other concert goers so they didn't have to wait in line), we built a little community of about 20 people who were over it and who literally stopped everyone from climbing over us in that section. It got close to very heated a couple of times but fuck it, it's rude enough to power your way through a crowd to take up space that isn't really there right before the band. It's BEYOND rude to actually think it's ok to trample people and climb over them to get out just because you can't be bothered to wait to go up the actual stairs.
What's also so interesting? The people who do stuff like this do it ALL THE TIME. Which means, when you really resist them and tell them a hard NO, they don't like it. At all.
That may have been the most satisfying part! Telling people who usually overpower others past "no" "NO" in a way they basically had no choice but to accept.
I was at Coachella once, long ago, and I was about to start to cross the main crowded lawn balancing some food and drinks for others, when this guy whizzes past me and almost into me on an electric skateboard. I went into FULL "grouchy old man on his porch" mode and yelled "WHAT THE F***! You can't ride that ish here, there are people EVERYWHERE!" (I.e. "Get off my lawn!!" on a lawn of 100,000 people)
The guy stopped completely, jumped off the board and picked it up, and walked back to me. "I am SO sorry! Really! I won't ride it anymore out here." He was super apologetic and very nice.
He was also Tommy Lee of Motley Crue.
I was like "Oh, well, yeah, ok, don't let it happen again young man!" as he towered over me all tattooed and super polite! He really was very nice. Grumpy old man mode is good once in awhile...
Reminds me of the douche in line last Sunday at the VIP beer stand. There were two cashiers and the line was in the middle so that you took the next open cashier. I was behind a guy who was next in line and an evenbro just walked right up to one of the lines. The guy just shook his head and didn't say anything. Then the other cashier opens up and he orders. I'm waiting for the next opening and another evenbro just pops right up to the register in front of me. I told him "hey the line is back here" because there was actually another guy behind me and he blew up at me. Fucking prick....he knew where the line was.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
I was at Coachella once, long ago, and I was about to start to cross the main crowded lawn balancing some food and drinks for others, when this guy whizzes past me and almost into me on an electric skateboard. I went into FULL "grouchy old man on his porch" mode and yelled "WHAT THE F***! You can't ride that ish here, there are people EVERYWHERE!" (I.e. "Get off my lawn!!" on a lawn of 100,000 people)
The guy stopped completely, jumped off the board and picked it up, and walked back to me. "I am SO sorry! Really! I won't ride it anymore out here." He was super apologetic and very nice.
He was also Tommy Lee of Motley Crue.
I was like "Oh, well, yeah, ok, don't let it happen again young man!" as he towered over me all tattooed and super polite! He really was very nice. Grumpy old man mode is good once in awhile...
Reminds me of the douche in line last Sunday at the VIP beer stand. There were two cashiers and the line was in the middle so that you took the next open cashier. I was behind a guy who was next in line and an evenbro just walked right up to one of the lines. The guy just shook his head and didn't say anything. Then the other cashier opens up and he orders. I'm waiting for the next opening and another evenbro just pops right up to the register in front of me. I told him "hey the line is back here" because there was actually another guy behind me and he blew up at me. Fucking prick....he knew where the line was.
Once I had to go to the bathroom at a preparty. Just walked in and went. I hear people freaking out about something. Exit the john and see I cut a huge line. Whooooops!
Friend of mine was near the rail for the show last weekend (not the encore). He said everyone around him was really cool, and most got there around 1:00 that day. Right before PJ hit the stage he noticed a radio jockey where he’s from squeeze her way to the rail between friends, who apparently had been saving her a spot.
He mentioned he didn’t mind too much at first because he was still in a great spot, and it didn’t affect where he was standing. His only complaint was in regards to how entitled she seemed to be about it. Some close by weren’t happy about it, and she was heard saying, “the front is where I belong, people don’t like it … F them”. Like Ed has said many times at shows, as far as one rule he has - “don’t be an asshole”. Take care of each other
I was at Coachella once, long ago, and I was about to start to cross the main crowded lawn balancing some food and drinks for others, when this guy whizzes past me and almost into me on an electric skateboard. I went into FULL "grouchy old man on his porch" mode and yelled "WHAT THE F***! You can't ride that ish here, there are people EVERYWHERE!" (I.e. "Get off my lawn!!" on a lawn of 100,000 people)
The guy stopped completely, jumped off the board and picked it up, and walked back to me. "I am SO sorry! Really! I won't ride it anymore out here." He was super apologetic and very nice.
He was also Tommy Lee of Motley Crue.
I was like "Oh, well, yeah, ok, don't let it happen again young man!" as he towered over me all tattooed and super polite! He really was very nice. Grumpy old man mode is good once in awhile...
Comments
We grabbed aisle seats on the bleachers about 6 rows up both night for encore weekend and it was great. Sounded great, screens made everything close and I could jump up, grab a beer, and be right back in my same spot in about two minutes. The Fri night bleacher crowd around us was kind of lame but Sat night was awesome.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Maybe it's better at US shows with GA where it's all 10c? I always go seats.
Cheers,
HFD
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
I sure don't have a great number. But people who act like entitled jackasses really get me agitated, and I admit I have a hard time letting go of that irritation. That would ruin my enjoyment of the show, so I'd rather just have my little assigned spot in the seats. We tried GA for the 2018 Europe shows: it worked out well once (Prague), was pointless once (Krakow, where there seemed to be no 10C "pit" and lots of really tall people, LOL), and was annoying AF in Berlin, where we put in the time in line, chose seats that we liked, then had to deal with latecomers who were certain that if they shoved hard enough they could fit three or eight more people into our row (maybe if we all turned sideways?), force us off the aisle, etc. I'll stick with reserved seating from now on.
The best shows I have been to were the reserved seating GA shows in 2010 where they did the 1st and 10th row lottery. I scored two 10th row tickets that tour (Noblesville and Columbus) and loved it.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Cheers,
HFD
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Cheers,
HFD
I watch some of this behavior, and I think of Ed's "we're going to register Pearl Jam as a religion" monologue. There's just one rule, he said, just one: Don't be an asshole. It's really basic stuff, and it's not everyone, but it's too many people.
Does it suck? Yes
Will it stop? No
That's one of the reasons why old guys like me chose VIP
Gutted: London 2 2018, Sacramento 2022, Noblesville 2023
I definitely opt for reserved seats (ideally on side close to the stage) when possible, but sometimes I just have to suck it up and realize I'll be far away. I still take far away reserved seats over GA pit, especially at an arena or bigger, because it's just...not... worth the hassle anymore.
But I still don't tolerate assholes either. My 12 yr old daughter saw her first "Mom's reaction when assholes almost trample her" at SHN, and we weren't anywhere near the front of the audience. Fortunately for most of the PJ set we had a little spontaneous community around us and even though I would have taken on the assholes who were literally trying to climb over people to get out of the beach part up to the boardwalk alone regardless (we were near a main stairway up on the boardwalk and many decided they would rather climb over other concert goers so they didn't have to wait in line), we built a little community of about 20 people who were over it and who literally stopped everyone from climbing over us in that section. It got close to very heated a couple of times but fuck it, it's rude enough to power your way through a crowd to take up space that isn't really there right before the band. It's BEYOND rude to actually think it's ok to trample people and climb over them to get out just because you can't be bothered to wait to go up the actual stairs.
What's also so interesting? The people who do stuff like this do it ALL THE TIME. Which means, when you really resist them and tell them a hard NO, they don't like it. At all.
That may have been the most satisfying part! Telling people who usually overpower others past "no" "NO" in a way they basically had no choice but to accept.
The guy stopped completely, jumped off the board and picked it up, and walked back to me. "I am SO sorry! Really! I won't ride it anymore out here." He was super apologetic and very nice.
He was also Tommy Lee of Motley Crue.
I was like "Oh, well, yeah, ok, don't let it happen again young man!" as he towered over me all tattooed and super polite! He really was very nice. Grumpy old man mode is good once in awhile...
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Cheers,
HFD