No offense to anyone.... but it seems pretty selfish or self-centered to say no just because you're worried about guilt or bad personal feelings.
The question is loaded. The variables relative to committing the act are endless. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
No offense to anyone.... but it seems pretty selfish or self-centered to say no just because you're worried about guilt or bad personal feelings.
The question is loaded. The variables relative to committing the act are endless. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
Why does preventing the holocaust create another genocide in its place?
someone earlier mentioned that they stomped a bee to death. ouch. i could off baby hitler before smashing a bee. in fact i find it easier to believe i could smoke a maniac monster predator 247,215 times or 247,216 times easier than a bee. a bee is innocent doing his thing. a nasty bastard predator who enjoys harming others should be smoked w/ a railroad spike, a softball, four rocks, a wobbly pool cue, chalk, cassette tape plastic fashioned into a spear tip, 19 gallons of paste, 7 chrome wheels & a couple nasty ideas that include hyenas & banking insurance investments from walmart
No offense to anyone.... but it seems pretty selfish or self-centered to say no just because you're worried about guilt or bad personal feelings.
The question is loaded. The variables relative to committing the act are endless. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
Why does preventing the holocaust create another genocide in its place?
Bad choice of words. It doesn't create one... another replaces it.
The future from that moment is altered. It's impossible to say exactly how things play out from that moment, but I feel comfortable saying we'd experience something else horrific with a new character as the demon and new victims to speak of.
If we killed baby Hitler... none of us are talking right now- we would never have existed. Further... I'm not convinced things would have been peachy-keen as a result.
Our past has been a part of our destiny. The only things we can truly do to impact humanity is what we do now and in the future. The past is supposed to guide our current to shape our future... but we have shown we aren't too interested in changing our propensity for violence on all scales.
someone earlier mentioned that they stomped a bee to death. ouch. i could off baby hitler before smashing a bee. in fact i find it easier to believe i could smoke a maniac monster predator 247,215 times or 247,216 times easier than a bee. a bee is innocent doing his thing. a nasty bastard predator who enjoys harming others should be smoked w/ a railroad spike, a softball, four rocks, a wobbly pool cue, chalk, cassette tape plastic fashioned into a spear tip, 19 gallons of paste, 7 chrome wheels & a couple nasty ideas that include hyenas & banking insurance investments from walmart
Yeah.
A bee doing new things or a mosquito doing mosquito things are a hell of a lot more palatable than a f**king psycho doing psycho things.
No offense to anyone.... but it seems pretty selfish or self-centered to say no just because you're worried about guilt or bad personal feelings.
The question is loaded. The variables relative to committing the act are endless. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
Why does preventing the holocaust create another genocide in its place?
Bad choice of words. It doesn't create one... another replaces it.
The future from that moment is altered. It's impossible to say exactly how things play out from that moment, but I feel comfortable saying we'd experience something else horrific with a new character as the demon and new victims to speak of.
Indin't think there is any logical reason to think that if you stopped that genocide, some other that would not have otherwise occured would happen. I am simplifying it because it is indeed simple (FWIW, i think you are overthinking it). Get a chance to kill Hitler and prevent the holocaust and WWII, take that chance. You seem to be suggesting that getting rid of Hitler would be pointless because the world is shitty anyhow, so what's the difference. But life is risk and causing change. For all you know, going grocery shopping on Tuesday instead of Wednesday would somehow result in a genocide. That doesn't keep you from going to the grocery store.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
someone earlier mentioned that they stomped a bee to death. ouch. i could off baby hitler before smashing a bee. in fact i find it easier to believe i could smoke a maniac monster predator 247,215 times or 247,216 times easier than a bee. a bee is innocent doing his thing. a nasty bastard predator who enjoys harming others should be smoked w/ a railroad spike, a softball, four rocks, a wobbly pool cue, chalk, cassette tape plastic fashioned into a spear tip, 19 gallons of paste, 7 chrome wheels & a couple nasty ideas that include hyenas & banking insurance investments from walmart
I said earlier that I did that years ago and still regret it. It was a snap decision Nd iregretted it instantly. I mentioned in the context of not being able to kill a baby. I alwaystell mykids, even when they want to stomp on a pest like an ant, to not harm anythingthat isnt harming you.my wife thinks im nuts for catching spiders in the house and releasing them outside instaed of smashing them. Bit they dont deserve that. They dont know they are in my house. They just know its awesome in my house. Lol.
No offense to anyone.... but it seems pretty selfish or self-centered to say no just because you're worried about guilt or bad personal feelings.
The question is loaded. The variables relative to committing the act are endless. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
Why does preventing the holocaust create another genocide in its place?
Bad choice of words. It doesn't create one... another replaces it.
The future from that moment is altered. It's impossible to say exactly how things play out from that moment, but I feel comfortable saying we'd experience something else horrific with a new character as the demon and new victims to speak of.
Indin't think there is any logical reason to think that if you stopped that genocide, some other that would not have otherwise occured would happen. I am simplifying it because it is indeed simple (FWIW, i think you are overthinking it). Get a chance to kill Hitler and prevent the holocaust and WWII, take that chance. You seem to be suggesting that getting rid of Hitler would be pointless because the world is shitty anyhow, so what's the difference. But life is risk and causing change. For all you know, going grocery shopping on Tuesday instead of Wednesday would somehow result in a genocide. That doesn't keep you from going to the grocery store.
Are you sure the change you are going to get is the one you want?
And you do realize that Hitler didn't spark widespread anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany?
I've said all I wanted to say regarding this topic. I might have thought about it a bit more than I needed to, but that's what I tend to do.
Hitler sucks. The holocaust was brutal. Punching Hitler in the face a bunch of times would be fun. Killing a baby would be very challenging for me.
No offense to anyone.... but it seems pretty selfish or self-centered to say no just because you're worried about guilt or bad personal feelings.
The question is loaded. The variables relative to committing the act are endless. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
Why does preventing the holocaust create another genocide in its place?
Bad choice of words. It doesn't create one... another replaces it.
The future from that moment is altered. It's impossible to say exactly how things play out from that moment, but I feel comfortable saying we'd experience something else horrific with a new character as the demon and new victims to speak of.
Indin't think there is any logical reason to think that if you stopped that genocide, some other that would not have otherwise occured would happen. I am simplifying it because it is indeed simple (FWIW, i think you are overthinking it). Get a chance to kill Hitler and prevent the holocaust and WWII, take that chance. You seem to be suggesting that getting rid of Hitler would be pointless because the world is shitty anyhow, so what's the difference. But life is risk and causing change. For all you know, going grocery shopping on Tuesday instead of Wednesday would somehow result in a genocide. That doesn't keep you from going to the grocery store.
Are you sure the change you are going to get is the one you want?
And you do realize that Hitler didn't spark widespread anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany?
I've said all I wanted to say regarding this topic. I might have thought about it a bit more than I needed to, but that's what I tend to do.
Hitler sucks. The holocaust was brutal. Punching Hitler in the face a bunch of times would be fun. Killing a baby would be very challenging for me.
Yes, I am sure that if I kill Hitler, Hitler will not write Mein kampf, become the leader of Germany, start WWII, and commit the holocaust. 100% sure. I am well aware of the butterfly effect theory and all that. I am also well aware that Hitler did not singlehandedly invent antisemitism. But as I already said, that is a risk i would be willing to take. Just as I am willing to do all kinds of things without knowing what larger effect it might have on the future.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
I took the question this way: Would you kill baby Hitler? And I would still say, yes, kill that mofo. Because the way I read it, it's Hitler, just in baby shape. I might have replied differently if the question was: Would you kill the baby that one day will turn out to be Adolf Hitler? I guess I feel a bit more touchy about this subject as a German. We get confronted with our country's history all the time, maybe I was even more so because I grew up in Eastern Germany. And we are what we are because of it. We don't feel good about displaying national pride generally, for example. This has changed a bit in recent years because of soccer (being proud of your team makes it okay to fly the German flag, I guess), but in general it is not something that makes us feel very comfy. Or at least this is how I see it. In recent months, the situation has changed again as well, with the whole refugee crisis. But this is a completely different topic.
Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue!
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,761
The Milgram Experiment proved that Hitler's influence could have (or even could) happened anywhere. Rather than focus on the dynamic twisted leader, perhaps it would be more useful to understand and learn about the dangers of blind obedience.
If you're not familiar with this experiment the following link provides a good summary and tie in to the subject at hand:
The Milgram Experiment proved that Hitler's influence could have (or even could) happened anywhere. Rather than focus on the dynamic twisted leader, perhaps it would be more useful to understand and learn about the dangers of blind obedience.
If you're not familiar with this experiment the following link provides a good summary and tie in to the subject at hand:
How about kill Hitler AND do what you said. Killing Hitler doesn't rule out any other actions. Also, I don't think that the Milgram experiment proved that Hitler could happen anywhere. The whole Hitler reign and holocaust required very very specific circumstances and actions on his part. Again, killing Hitler isn't supposed to be a cure-all for evil. It's just stopping Hitler and the shit he did specifically.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,761
The Milgram Experiment proved that Hitler's influence could have (or even could) happened anywhere. Rather than focus on the dynamic twisted leader, perhaps it would be more useful to understand and learn about the dangers of blind obedience.
If you're not familiar with this experiment the following link provides a good summary and tie in to the subject at hand:
How about kill Hitler AND do what you said. Killing Hitler doesn't rule out any other actions. Also, I don't think that the Milgram experiment proved that Hitler could happen anywhere. The whole Hitler reign and holocaust required very very specific circumstances and actions on his part. Again, killing Hitler isn't supposed to be a cure-all for evil. It's just stopping Hitler and the shit he did specifically.
True, Hitler needed a desperate Germany to make it easier to put his evil over the masses there. But similar cauldrons of misfortune and desperation are not unique to 1930's Germany.
But I will break my persistent campaigning for peaceful solutions to say that I will admit this: It's a damn shame the July 20, 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler failed. There no denying it would have been great if it had worked out or been carried out earlier.
But, OK, the man is dead. Did we learn anything? Can we prevent another such atrocity? And can anyone name a major empire through which equally horrible acts have not been carried out? I can't. We would do well to learn, grow, move on.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
If we had the power to go back and assisinate evil,why stop at Baby Hitler.During the Holocaust there were many soulless pieces of shit that took part in this extermination.I would watch every news reel I could find and I would go back to every single towns person ,soldier,Policeman,who joined in with hate and humiliation and cold blooded murder and torture and I would make everyone of them suffer.I have zero compassion for those who act powerful at the expense of the week.Zero.
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
The question isn't so easy to answer. I think about it and say no. The worlds history would be altered and I wouldn't be here right now discussing this.
Millions saved but millions upon millions aren't born. It would be an alternate universe.
To add to the question of "Could you kill?" do you come from the future to kill him? Do you have powers like that movie The Dead Zone where you can see peoples futures?
In hindsight of course he should be killed but what happens to the world if he doesn't exist? Do the English continue to rule over colonies and other countries? Does Apartheid ever end in Africa? Does segregation in the states end?
This thread can open up sooooo many other questions and possibilities.
Oh and Brianlux there was a book written about what you're saying to It's called The Wave.
I'll suggest another book, I just finished it. KL: A History of the Nazi Concentration Camp by Nikolaus Wachsmann. It's really good, really dense, 800 pages long. Talks about the camps starting in 1933, mostly for people being opponents to Hitler. The Final Solution happens later. There's not as much about Hitler as you'd think - he delegates lots of dirty work to others. Himmler, among many, is so heinous... that's another question, would Himmler have existed without Hitler?
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
The question isn't so easy to answer. I think about it and say no. The worlds history would be altered and I wouldn't be here right now discussing this.
Millions saved but millions upon millions aren't born. It would be an alternate universe.
To add to the question of "Could you kill?" do you come from the future to kill him? Do you have powers like that movie The Dead Zone where you can see peoples futures?
In hindsight of course he should be killed but what happens to the world if he doesn't exist? Do the English continue to rule over colonies and other countries? Does Apartheid ever end in Africa? Does segregation in the states end?
This thread can open up sooooo many other questions and possibilities.
Oh and Brianlux there was a book written about what you're saying to It's called The Wave.
Yes! The book about Ron Jones! Mr. Jones taught at my high school and although I never had any of his classes, my girl friend at the time did and I was able to sit in on a few of them with her. Jones was a great teacher- an amazing man now residing/ and working as a story teller in S.F.- who taught us much about the dangers of blind acceptance/obedience.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
The question isn't so easy to answer. I think about it and say no. The worlds history would be altered and I wouldn't be here right now discussing this.
Millions saved but millions upon millions aren't born. It would be an alternate universe.
To add to the question of "Could you kill?" do you come from the future to kill him? Do you have powers like that movie The Dead Zone where you can see peoples futures?
In hindsight of course he should be killed but what happens to the world if he doesn't exist? Do the English continue to rule over colonies and other countries? Does Apartheid ever end in Africa? Does segregation in the states end?
This thread can open up sooooo many other questions and possibilities.
Oh and Brianlux there was a book written about what you're saying to It's called The Wave.
Yes! The book about Ron Jones! Mr. Jones taught at my high school and although I never had any of his classes, my girl friend at the time did and I was able to sit in on a few of them with her. Jones was a great teacher- an amazing man now residing/ and working as a story teller in S.F.- who taught us much about the dangers of blind acceptance/obedience.
Very cool. I'm happy someone knows that book too, lol. The author of The Wave, Strasser came to my school to talk about it. Somewhere I have a signed copy.
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
I beg yor pardon? You feel that my behaviour on the boards indicates that I am not strong enough to make sacrifices or deal with hardship in real life???
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,761
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
The question isn't so easy to answer. I think about it and say no. The worlds history would be altered and I wouldn't be here right now discussing this.
Millions saved but millions upon millions aren't born. It would be an alternate universe.
To add to the question of "Could you kill?" do you come from the future to kill him? Do you have powers like that movie The Dead Zone where you can see peoples futures?
In hindsight of course he should be killed but what happens to the world if he doesn't exist? Do the English continue to rule over colonies and other countries? Does Apartheid ever end in Africa? Does segregation in the states end?
This thread can open up sooooo many other questions and possibilities.
Oh and Brianlux there was a book written about what you're saying to It's called The Wave.
Yes! The book about Ron Jones! Mr. Jones taught at my high school and although I never had any of his classes, my girl friend at the time did and I was able to sit in on a few of them with her. Jones was a great teacher- an amazing man now residing/ and working as a story teller in S.F.- who taught us much about the dangers of blind acceptance/obedience.
Very cool. I'm happy someone knows that book too, lol. The author of The Wave, Strasser came to my school to talk about it. Somewhere I have a signed copy.
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
I beg yor pardon? You feel that my behaviour on the boards indicates that I am not strong enough to make sacrifices or deal with hardship in real life???
I probably shouldn't get in the middle of this but, tempo, when PJ_Soul says something I believe it and would take it for face value without a doubt.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
For me I couldn't and I wouldn't do it....it's simple thinking change THAT history and something else FAR WORSE would probably happen.
Peace
Post edited by g under p on
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
The question isn't so easy to answer. I think about it and say no. The worlds history would be altered and I wouldn't be here right now discussing this.
Millions saved but millions upon millions aren't born. It would be an alternate universe.
To add to the question of "Could you kill?" do you come from the future to kill him? Do you have powers like that movie The Dead Zone where you can see peoples futures?
In hindsight of course he should be killed but what happens to the world if he doesn't exist? Do the English continue to rule over colonies and other countries? Does Apartheid ever end in Africa? Does segregation in the states end?
This thread can open up sooooo many other questions and possibilities.
Oh and Brianlux there was a book written about what you're saying to It's called The Wave.
Yes! The book about Ron Jones! Mr. Jones taught at my high school and although I never had any of his classes, my girl friend at the time did and I was able to sit in on a few of them with her. Jones was a great teacher- an amazing man now residing/ and working as a story teller in S.F.- who taught us much about the dangers of blind acceptance/obedience.
Very cool. I'm happy someone knows that book too, lol. The author of The Wave, Strasser came to my school to talk about it. Somewhere I have a signed copy.
What a warped question. You essentially are killing a baby. Only you would have the knowledge of knowing what he is capable of doing. You would be sent to prison for killing and nobody is going to "praise" you for doing so.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
To stop Hitler?? I'd be perfectly willing to die, let alone spend my life feeling hated in prison. Seriously, who cares about personal consequences when you can save many other lives?? I really don't understand this line of thinking. I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
You don't like it when someone calls you out here on the forums so your going to be ok in prison?
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
I beg yor pardon? You feel that my behaviour on the boards indicates that I am not strong enough to make sacrifices or deal with hardship in real life???
I probably shouldn't get in the middle of this but, tempo, when PJ_Soul says something I believe it and would take it for face value without a doubt.
Thank you Brian. I have a lot of flaws, but my straightforward honesty and strength of conviction is probably what makes up the most of me, and it can be weird to know that some don't understand that huge part of me, but when people do get me well enough to understand that part of me I feel like there is real understanding there.
So anyway, about the whole butterfly effect issue.... It's a totally valid theory - if you kill Hitler ot could cause a change that makes things even worse than what you stopped - but I'm just wondering what people had in mind there. For me, it's a logical possibility, but a remote one, given the magnitude of what you're stopping, so I'd be willing to take a chance. Because seriously, what could be worse, really, in the context of that time and place? I mean, killing Hitler is probably not going to cause aliens to come and wipe us all out or cause some kind of natural disaster that wipes out tens of millions of people, with a focus in Jews. And i see no reason to think that somehow Germany or some other nation would have come up with all that rhetoric that took years for Hitler to develop to do what he did to the pychology of the German population, to come up with "the final solution" independent of Hitler's influence, to match or exceed Hitler's hand in gathering together the particular people that he did in order to all focus on the goals that he specifically dictated, which resulted in the furnaces, the experiments, everything that we consider so evil about Hitler and his handpicked menagerie of psychopaths. So what are are people thinking could realistically be worse if Hitler hadn't existed? It actually sounds like many of you think that the holocaust or something worse to specfically replace it (as opposed to other shit that also would have happened ether way) was actually a concrete inevitability, with or without Hitler.... To me, that doesn't give enough "credit" to Hitler and the role he played. It also suggests that some of you don't think that changing events in history could ever fix or change anything. Like it's all based on fate or something. Is that right??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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From my perspective, killing baby Hitler solves one genocide but creates another. Not only that... it alters the course of history in ways we simply cannot fathom.
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The future from that moment is altered. It's impossible to say exactly how things play out from that moment, but I feel comfortable saying we'd experience something else horrific with a new character as the demon and new victims to speak of.
If we killed baby Hitler... none of us are talking right now- we would never have existed. Further... I'm not convinced things would have been peachy-keen as a result.
Our past has been a part of our destiny. The only things we can truly do to impact humanity is what we do now and in the future. The past is supposed to guide our current to shape our future... but we have shown we aren't too interested in changing our propensity for violence on all scales.
A bee doing new things or a mosquito doing mosquito things are a hell of a lot more palatable than a f**king psycho doing psycho things.
I am simplifying it because it is indeed simple (FWIW, i think you are overthinking it). Get a chance to kill Hitler and prevent the holocaust and WWII, take that chance. You seem to be suggesting that getting rid of Hitler would be pointless because the world is shitty anyhow, so what's the difference. But life is risk and causing change. For all you know, going grocery shopping on Tuesday instead of Wednesday would somehow result in a genocide. That doesn't keep you from going to the grocery store.
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And you do realize that Hitler didn't spark widespread anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany?
I've said all I wanted to say regarding this topic. I might have thought about it a bit more than I needed to, but that's what I tend to do.
Hitler sucks. The holocaust was brutal. Punching Hitler in the face a bunch of times would be fun. Killing a baby would be very challenging for me.
I am well aware of the butterfly effect theory and all that. I am also well aware that Hitler did not singlehandedly invent antisemitism. But as I already said, that is a risk i would be willing to take. Just as I am willing to do all kinds of things without knowing what larger effect it might have on the future.
Could you live a life being persecuted, hated, abused and not understood?
This is like that Steven King movie The Dead Zone.
Whomever said that this is a "loaded question" hit the nail on the head.
I guess I feel a bit more touchy about this subject as a German. We get confronted with our country's history all the time, maybe I was even more so because I grew up in Eastern Germany. And we are what we are because of it. We don't feel good about displaying national pride generally, for example. This has changed a bit in recent years because of soccer (being proud of your team makes it okay to fly the German flag, I guess), but in general it is not something that makes us feel very comfy. Or at least this is how I see it. In recent months, the situation has changed again as well, with the whole refugee crisis. But this is a completely different topic.
I think it's a really interesting question. Difficult hypotheticals are great to discuss!
If you're not familiar with this experiment the following link provides a good summary and tie in to the subject at hand:
http://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html
But I will break my persistent campaigning for peaceful solutions to say that I will admit this: It's a damn shame the July 20, 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler failed. There no denying it would have been great if it had worked out or been carried out earlier.
But, OK, the man is dead. Did we learn anything? Can we prevent another such atrocity? And can anyone name a major empire through which equally horrible acts have not been carried out? I can't. We would do well to learn, grow, move on.
If you were to be bashed and abused for the rest of your life in prison I'm pretty sure the thought of saving people would vanish. Try that line of thinking.
The question isn't so easy to answer. I think about it and say no. The worlds history would be altered and I wouldn't be here right now discussing this.
Millions saved but millions upon millions aren't born. It would be an alternate universe.
To add to the question of "Could you kill?" do you come from the future to kill him? Do you have powers like that movie The Dead Zone where you can see peoples futures?
In hindsight of course he should be killed but what happens to the world if he doesn't exist? Do the English continue to rule over colonies and other countries? Does Apartheid ever end in Africa? Does segregation in the states end?
This thread can open up sooooo many other questions and possibilities.
Oh and Brianlux there was a book written about what you're saying to It's called The Wave.
http://www.amazon.com/KL-History-Nazi-Concentration-Camps-ebook/dp/B00NS3NBWU/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1445789075&sr=8-1
THE RESULTS are in....
http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/could-you-kill-baby-hitler-new-york-times-poll-results-are-in-20152310
For me I couldn't and I wouldn't do it....it's simple thinking change THAT history and something else FAR WORSE would probably happen.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
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*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
So anyway, about the whole butterfly effect issue.... It's a totally valid theory - if you kill Hitler ot could cause a change that makes things even worse than what you stopped - but I'm just wondering what people had in mind there. For me, it's a logical possibility, but a remote one, given the magnitude of what you're stopping, so I'd be willing to take a chance. Because seriously, what could be worse, really, in the context of that time and place?
I mean, killing Hitler is probably not going to cause aliens to come and wipe us all out or cause some kind of natural disaster that wipes out tens of millions of people, with a focus in Jews. And i see no reason to think that somehow Germany or some other nation would have come up with all that rhetoric that took years for Hitler to develop to do what he did to the pychology of the German population, to come up with "the final solution" independent of Hitler's influence, to match or exceed Hitler's hand in gathering together the particular people that he did in order to all focus on the goals that he specifically dictated, which resulted in the furnaces, the experiments, everything that we consider so evil about Hitler and his handpicked menagerie of psychopaths. So what are are people thinking could realistically be worse if Hitler hadn't existed? It actually sounds like many of you think that the holocaust or something worse to specfically replace it (as opposed to other shit that also would have happened ether way) was actually a concrete inevitability, with or without Hitler.... To me, that doesn't give enough "credit" to Hitler and the role he played. It also suggests that some of you don't think that changing events in history could ever fix or change anything. Like it's all based on fate or something. Is that right??
No way in hell they would.