I just watched a very good exchange of ideas for this refugee crisis on Farkeed Zakarias Show on CNN. All the contributors were taking a neutral stance for the most part,although 2 of them were more refugee support positions for this conversation. Those same experts said that based on existing data of middle eastern refugees relocating to Europe there has been some big issues that need to be looked at before the flood gates open.
The big points were that there is still a huge unemployment issue with these folks who relocated in the past ,Also noted a general sense of apathy amongst those who have settled in the past really highlighting big assimilation issues and problems.
What I found most intriguing was when we get to second generation immigrants the above problems have manifested itself into a much higher rate of radicalization.Thats not an angle I had thought about.But a good question to ask. So after these countries open up to large numbers of asylum seekers what happens down the road? Will failure to assimilate properly create future racial and nationalistic issues. I know some have concerns about radicals in the refugee migration.Based on percentages I'm sure there is a couple bad apples but very small percentages of the whole.So I really don't think there is any big worry short term.But a decade or two down the road if economic stagnation and unemployment issues prevail,I can see that becoming an issue. So many different complexities to contemplate.Weighing immediate humanitarian help with future concerns for the countries excepting the refugees.
I just watched a very good exchange of ideas for this refugee crisis on Farkeed Zakarias Show on CNN. All the contributors were taking a neutral stance for the most part,although 2 of them were more refugee support positions for this conversation. Those same experts said that based on existing data of middle eastern refugees relocating to Europe there has been some big issues that need to be looked at before the flood gates open.
The big points were that there is still a huge unemployment issue with these folks who relocated in the past ,Also noted a general sense of apathy amongst those who have settled in the past really highlighting big assimilation issues and problems.
What I found most intriguing was when we get to second generation immigrants the above problems have manifested itself into a much higher rate of radicalization.Thats not an angle I had thought about.But a good question to ask. So after these countries open up to large numbers of asylum seekers what happens down the road? Will failure to assimilate properly create future racial and nationalistic issues. I know some have concerns about radicals in the refugee migration.Based on percentages I'm sure there is a couple bad apples but very small percentages of the whole.So I really don't think there is any big worry short term.But a decade or two down the road if economic stagnation and unemployment issues prevail,I can see that becoming an issue. So many different complexities to contemplate.Weighing immediate humanitarian help with future concerns for the countries excepting the refugees.
That surprises me, you would think the influence of Western freedom would have the opposite effect. I suppose their parents must be working extra hard to counter that influence.
I just watched a very good exchange of ideas for this refugee crisis on Farkeed Zakarias Show on CNN. All the contributors were taking a neutral stance for the most part,although 2 of them were more refugee support positions for this conversation. Those same experts said that based on existing data of middle eastern refugees relocating to Europe there has been some big issues that need to be looked at before the flood gates open.
The big points were that there is still a huge unemployment issue with these folks who relocated in the past ,Also noted a general sense of apathy amongst those who have settled in the past really highlighting big assimilation issues and problems.
What I found most intriguing was when we get to second generation immigrants the above problems have manifested itself into a much higher rate of radicalization.Thats not an angle I had thought about.But a good question to ask. So after these countries open up to large numbers of asylum seekers what happens down the road? Will failure to assimilate properly create future racial and nationalistic issues. I know some have concerns about radicals in the refugee migration.Based on percentages I'm sure there is a couple bad apples but very small percentages of the whole.So I really don't think there is any big worry short term.But a decade or two down the road if economic stagnation and unemployment issues prevail,I can see that becoming an issue. So many different complexities to contemplate.Weighing immediate humanitarian help with future concerns for the countries excepting the refugees.
You speak to the complexities of the problem. It isn't quite as easy as some suggest. Short term... there are human lives who are desperate and need assistance. But there are long term implications that threaten the peace. France is experiencing this right now.
"France’s Muslim population has reached an estimated 6.5 million – roughly 10 per cent of the population – and many of them have assimilated poorly. Despite the billions of euros poured into immigrant-dominated “sensitive urban zones” since the riots of 2005, nothing has improved. Youth unemployment in these areas is upward of 40 per cent, according to The Economist. Sixty per cent of France’s prison inmates are of “Muslim religion or culture,” and the prisons have become breeding grounds for radicalization."
There are many reasons for the 'poor assimilation' that do not rest entirely on the Muslim population's shoulders; but the problem exists and seems to be growing in magnitude as the population polarizes. I watched a disturbing RAW video that depicted the current reality and I didn't like what I saw: angry young Muslim men and fevered French nationalists.
Using France as an example for immigration is a red herring. We can all agree that what they have done there is the wrong way to settle people, congregating and isolating immigrants. We have many successful models to follow in other countries around the world. The US melting pot and the Canadian multi-cultural solutions being a great example.
Using France as an example for immigration is a red herring. We can all agree that what they have done there is the wrong way to settle people, congregating and isolating immigrants. We have many successful models to follow in other countries around the world. The US melting pot and the Canadian multi-cultural solutions being a great example.
I don't think France is completely irrelevant. Of course there are examples that are encouraging, but are we in the practice of only presenting scenarios that fit the promoted agenda on the MT?
Using France as an example for immigration is a red herring. We can all agree that what they have done there is the wrong way to settle people, congregating and isolating immigrants. We have many successful models to follow in other countries around the world. The US melting pot and the Canadian multi-cultural solutions being a great example.
I don't think France is completely irrelevant. Of course there are examples that are encouraging, but are we in the practice of only presenting scenarios that fit the promoted agenda on the MT?
No....but why would we propose ideas that we know don't work and say "Hey, that could happen here" when we do not follow a France model here in Canada and the US. It's used as a reason to not take in refugees, to promote fear. It's counterproductive.
Using France as an example for immigration is a red herring. We can all agree that what they have done there is the wrong way to settle people, congregating and isolating immigrants. We have many successful models to follow in other countries around the world. The US melting pot and the Canadian multi-cultural solutions being a great example.
I don't think France is completely irrelevant. Of course there are examples that are encouraging, but are we in the practice of only presenting scenarios that fit the promoted agenda on the MT?
No....but why would we propose ideas that we know don't work and say "Hey, that could happen here" when we do not follow a France model here in Canada and the US. It's used as a reason to not take in refugees, to promote fear. It's counterproductive.
I'm for taking refugees here in Canada.
RR presented his findings and I chimed in with what I knew to detail one reason why some European countries are not as eager as much as we expect them to be.
This is a discussion. The more latitude afforded for reasonable discourse in a discussion... the better in my opinion.
I think everyone needs to imagine it is themselves who is one of these refugees. Would you still all feel like these posts suggest??
Forget about being a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or any other religion, we are all HUMAN I hope.
If we were invaded by an alien life form tomorrow would you all still feel this way? Man as a species needs to be as one, not fractured like we all are right now.
All this bad feeling makes you wish we all could be united as a planet against SOMETHING!
I would hope that one day if I was a refugee I would be treated humanely. I would also hope that one day there is no religion then there would be no more refugees to worry about.
I'm afraid the end of religion will not mean the end of war. Unfathomable as it is, man will continue to find reason to wage war
Maybe. But for now we can take away the biggest reason. Would be pretty hard to find another reason for war after religion is gone though. Can you name one?
I think that the wars for resources are inevitable. Wars over water, food... obviously the war for oil has already been around for some time. Humans are great at finding reasons to go to war - they will never run out of them. They are always based on ether ideology or plain old need or greed. But yeah, the fewer reasons the better. I definitely like to Imagine no religion too.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't understand the concerns for assimilation. Is Europe run by Cybermen?
Many (most) Europeans are pretty culture-centric. They tend to be fiercely protective of their own unique cultures. Maybe this is because each nationality's culture is so unique while still living in such close quarters with each other in Europe? They place a lot of value on their particular ways of life, and often tend to feel that their way (in any number of contexts) is ultimately the superior way (whether theu want to admit it or not). There is a lot of nationalism going on (which is also true of other places btw - Europeans aren't the only ones; just look at how Americans are when ot comes to nationalism!! I often wonder if Americans and the French tend to "dislike" each other because they are SO similar in this way!). People simply feel like other cultures threaten their own. Simple as that. I suppose it's human nature. I also think this sense of threat goes up when religion is or may be a factor, largely because of what place religion has or does not have in government and law.
I believe that most people would prefer assimilation in the end, because it's easiest for them. But I think that integration should be the goal. If it was working, i feel like most would feel much more accepting of new immigrants generally (not that them not feeling more accepting is cool - it's just a fact). And i feel like people are failing at encouraging integration, and that is why people are so defensive about the whole thing. If governments worked at encouraging integration of immigrants through several different means these problems revolving around immigration would probably settle down a lot. But that wouldn't be easy.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It was a joke. A Doctor Who reference joke. I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
The 'dilution' you are talking about is common to every country. No one wants their country's culture to be changed because of migrants arriving that their govts agreed to take in. Since at least the fifties migrants have relocated to many countries and some have integrated, some have not. Some countries have good multi cultural policies, some do not. Most integration does not become evident for more than one generation. The migrants feel like visitors in their new country, they are the victims of rascist comments and their communities tend to stick together. Later generations do integrate but it's hard to see this right now when we as a world are being asked to be humanitarian and open our hearts and borders to people we think are very different to ourselves. Another bit of food for thought......what would have happened when primitive man wandered across the world to populate new places if the people there had killed them instead of letting them stay? There would probably be very few humans anywhere, perhaps none!
late PJ bloomer- what was I doing in the 90's that I didn't know who Pearl Jam was???
The 'dilution' you are talking about is common to every country. No one wants their country's culture to be changed because of migrants arriving that their govts agreed to take in. Since at least the fifties migrants have relocated to many countries and some have integrated, some have not. Some countries have good multi cultural policies, some do not. Most integration does not become evident for more than one generation. The migrants feel like visitors in their new country, they are the victims of rascist comments and their communities tend to stick together. Later generations do integrate but it's hard to see this right now when we as a world are being asked to be humanitarian and open our hearts and borders to people we think are very different to ourselves. Another bit of food for thought......what would have happened when primitive man wandered across the world to populate new places if the people there had killed them instead of letting them stay? There would probably be very few humans anywhere, perhaps none!
II would speculate that primitive man was very territorial and guarded local resources fiercely against other peoples: much the same as we witness with chimpanzees.
The 'dilution' you are talking about is common to every country. No one wants their country's culture to be changed because of migrants arriving that their govts agreed to take in. Since at least the fifties migrants have relocated to many countries and some have integrated, some have not. Some countries have good multi cultural policies, some do not. Most integration does not become evident for more than one generation. The migrants feel like visitors in their new country, they are the victims of rascist comments and their communities tend to stick together. Later generations do integrate but it's hard to see this right now when we as a world are being asked to be humanitarian and open our hearts and borders to people we think are very different to ourselves. Another bit of food for thought......what would have happened when primitive man wandered across the world to populate new places if the people there had killed them instead of letting them stay? There would probably be very few humans anywhere, perhaps none!
II would speculate that primitive man was very territorial and guarded local resources fiercely against other peoples: much the same as we witness with chimpanzees.
Sadly, I have to agree. It's still a matter of active debate and research as to what the interaction was like between more modern humans and the Neanderthals. I believe it's clear that they co-existed in some areas and eventually homo sapiens won the day, but exactly how this occurred is unclear. I'm not sure that homo sapiens were that welcoming in areas where resources were tight.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
The 'dilution' you are talking about is common to every country. No one wants their country's culture to be changed because of migrants arriving that their govts agreed to take in. Since at least the fifties migrants have relocated to many countries and some have integrated, some have not. Some countries have good multi cultural policies, some do not. Most integration does not become evident for more than one generation. The migrants feel like visitors in their new country, they are the victims of rascist comments and their communities tend to stick together. Later generations do integrate but it's hard to see this right now when we as a world are being asked to be humanitarian and open our hearts and borders to people we think are very different to ourselves. Another bit of food for thought......what would have happened when primitive man wandered across the world to populate new places if the people there had killed them instead of letting them stay? There would probably be very few humans anywhere, perhaps none!
II would speculate that primitive man was very territorial and guarded local resources fiercely against other peoples: much the same as we witness with chimpanzees.
Sadly, I have to agree. It's still a matter of active debate and research as to what the interaction was like between more modern humans and the Neanderthals. I believe it's clear that they co-existed in some areas and eventually homo sapiens won the day, but exactly how this occurred is unclear. I'm not sure that homo sapiens were that welcoming in areas where resources were tight.
It was a joke. A Doctor Who reference joke. I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
Oops.
I hear ya. I remember at my old job when one of our London reporters visited the NYC office, and he was just shooting the shit with one of our NYC reporters about his recent trip to Spain. They were comparing notes about how it's changed since the NYC reporter had been there, and then London reporter said, "Yeah, Barcelona's got a real Muslim problem now." He said this like it was the most normal thing to say in the world. The NYC reporter snapped back, "Hey, you're in New York City now, pal! You can't talk your shit like that here!" Then I got up and introduced the London reporter to two Muslim editors who overheard his bigoted bullshit. I've never seen such a pale person turn so bright red so quickly.
It was a joke. A Doctor Who reference joke. I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
Oops.
I hear ya. I remember at my old job when one of our London reporters visited the NYC office, and he was just shooting the shit with one of our NYC reporters about his recent trip to Spain. They were comparing notes about how it's changed since the NYC reporter had been there, and then London reporter said, "Yeah, Barcelona's got a real Muslim problem now." He said this like it was the most normal thing to say in the world. The NYC reporter snapped back, "Hey, you're in New York City now, pal! You can't talk your shit like that here!" Then I got up and introduced the London reporter to two Muslim editors who overheard his bigoted bullshit. I've never seen such a pale person turn so bright red so quickly.
We fired his ass after that.
The dude prob blames the Muslims on his firing too.
It was a joke. A Doctor Who reference joke. I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
Oops.
Ident, I knew it was a joke, but it made me think about what I posted too, because assimilation is what a lot of people really want and expect.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It was a joke. A Doctor Who reference joke. I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
Oops.
I hear ya. I remember at my old job when one of our London reporters visited the NYC office, and he was just shooting the shit with one of our NYC reporters about his recent trip to Spain. They were comparing notes about how it's changed since the NYC reporter had been there, and then London reporter said, "Yeah, Barcelona's got a real Muslim problem now." He said this like it was the most normal thing to say in the world. The NYC reporter snapped back, "Hey, you're in New York City now, pal! You can't talk your shit like that here!" Then I got up and introduced the London reporter to two Muslim editors who overheard his bigoted bullshit. I've never seen such a pale person turn so bright red so quickly.
We fired his ass after that.
The dude prob blames the Muslims on his firing too.
Pretty sure a Jew fired him, because, for the most part, New Yorkers have got each others' backs.
You don't get to be the best city on earth by being narrow-minded and exclusionary.
Using France as an example for immigration is a red herring. We can all agree that what they have done there is the wrong way to settle people, congregating and isolating immigrants. We have many successful models to follow in other countries around the world. The US melting pot and the Canadian multi-cultural solutions being a great example.
The US and Canadian melting pots had the advantage of a bunch of cultures showing up at once and kicking the existing culture out.
I'm afraid the same tendencies as in the 1930's, are roaming Europe once again. Financial crisis in Europe have the tendency to need a scapegoat to take the blame for it... In the 1930's it were the Jews, now it's the Muslims. The political message is once again the same only the target names have changed. Mozes doesn't do it these days, Osama has done it now a days... In the last two decades, all criminal behavior is blamed on the Muslims, the high unemployment levels are blamed on the Muslims, The immoral change in society is... yep, blamed on the Muslims, The rise in costs of the health insurance, is blamed on the Muslims, because the are so unhygienic they spread diseases etc., etc.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
I'm afraid the same tendencies as in the 1930's, are roaming Europe once again. Financial crisis in Europe have the tendency to need a scapegoat to take the blame for it... In the 1930's it were the Jews, now it's the Muslims. The political message is once again the same only the target names have changed. Mozes doesn't do it these days, Osama has done it now a days... In the last two decades, all criminal behavior is blamed on the Muslims, the high unemployment levels are blamed on the Muslims, The immoral change in society is... yep, blamed on the Muslims, The rise in costs of the health insurance, is blamed on the Muslims, because the are so unhygienic they spread diseases etc., etc.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
After seeing your excellent post in the WWII thread I was hoping you would put something similar here. Well done, Aafke!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
It was a joke. A Doctor Who reference joke. I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
Oops.
I hear ya. I remember at my old job when one of our London reporters visited the NYC office, and he was just shooting the shit with one of our NYC reporters about his recent trip to Spain. They were comparing notes about how it's changed since the NYC reporter had been there, and then London reporter said, "Yeah, Barcelona's got a real Muslim problem now." He said this like it was the most normal thing to say in the world. The NYC reporter snapped back, "Hey, you're in New York City now, pal! You can't talk your shit like that here!" Then I got up and introduced the London reporter to two Muslim editors who overheard his bigoted bullshit. I've never seen such a pale person turn so bright red so quickly.
We fired his ass after that.
I mean I think if I try really hard I can kind of understand it. For example, a couple weeks ago I was in a Walmart in an area where you'd expect a Walmart. I needed to buy a tarp for tying shit up outside. For some unfathomable reason they were in the hunting section, with the guns and shit. I was scared. I didn't want to ask the gun keeper for help. There was a very frightening looking neckbeard guy looking at arrows. He scared me. And that is an unfair judgement based on my own ignorance of that culture. "Those people" are different to me. I am ignorant of their culture except for the really bad stuff I hear in the media. It's pretty much the same thing for someone living in a homogenous European country like Slovakia. They don't have any experience with or exposure to Muslim people/culture and they hear a bunch of negative shit in the media so that's what they base their opinions on. If you drop me in the middle of Appalachia I'm not gonna assimilate. I'm gonna be scared as hell and I'm gonna wish I was no longer stuck in Appalachia. And then over time as I get exposed to the local culture more I'll get over my bias and learn more about them and realize they're not so bad after all. I'm 99.9% sure that is how integration works. Still not sure why assimilation even has to be a thing in that case. Why can't I be part of the community while retaining my own culture? Why should I have to re-make myself in your image just so I can live in the same place as you? It's dumb.
And no, I'm not proud of my prejudicial reaction to a redneck. It was wrong, I was wrong. The Europeans crying for assimilation are wrong. I feel like Oprah. You're wrong, you're wrong, EVERYBODY is wrong!!!
Comments
All the contributors were taking a neutral stance for the most part,although 2 of them were more refugee support positions for this conversation.
Those same experts said that based on existing data of middle eastern refugees relocating to Europe there has been some big issues that need to be looked at before the flood gates open.
The big points were that there is still a huge unemployment issue with these folks who relocated in the past ,Also noted a general sense of apathy amongst those who have settled in the past really highlighting big assimilation issues and problems.
What I found most intriguing was when we get to second generation immigrants the above problems have manifested itself into a much higher rate of radicalization.Thats not an angle I had thought about.But a good question to ask.
So after these countries open up to large numbers of asylum seekers what happens down the road? Will failure to assimilate properly create future racial and nationalistic issues.
I know some have concerns about radicals in the refugee migration.Based on percentages I'm sure there is a couple bad apples but very small percentages of the whole.So I really don't think there is any big worry short term.But a decade or two down the road if economic stagnation and unemployment issues prevail,I can see that becoming an issue.
So many different complexities to contemplate.Weighing immediate humanitarian help with future concerns for the countries excepting the refugees.
"France’s Muslim population has reached an estimated 6.5 million – roughly 10 per cent of the population – and many of them have assimilated poorly. Despite the billions of euros poured into immigrant-dominated “sensitive urban zones” since the riots of 2005, nothing has improved. Youth unemployment in these areas is upward of 40 per cent, according to The Economist. Sixty per cent of France’s prison inmates are of “Muslim religion or culture,” and the prisons have become breeding grounds for radicalization."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/frances-problems-are-in-plain-sight/article22359531/
There are many reasons for the 'poor assimilation' that do not rest entirely on the Muslim population's shoulders; but the problem exists and seems to be growing in magnitude as the population polarizes. I watched a disturbing RAW video that depicted the current reality and I didn't like what I saw: angry young Muslim men and fevered French nationalists.
RR presented his findings and I chimed in with what I knew to detail one reason why some European countries are not as eager as much as we expect them to be.
This is a discussion. The more latitude afforded for reasonable discourse in a discussion... the better in my opinion.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
I believe that most people would prefer assimilation in the end, because it's easiest for them. But I think that integration should be the goal. If it was working, i feel like most would feel much more accepting of new immigrants generally (not that them not feeling more accepting is cool - it's just a fact). And i feel like people are failing at encouraging integration, and that is why people are so defensive about the whole thing. If governments worked at encouraging integration of immigrants through several different means these problems revolving around immigration would probably settle down a lot. But that wouldn't be easy.
I've spent my entirely life in literally the most diverse place on the planet. I'm never gonna understand assimilation or calls for assimilation. So I was making fun.
Oops.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
Another bit of food for thought......what would have happened when primitive man wandered across the world to populate new places if the people there had killed them instead of letting them stay? There would probably be very few humans anywhere, perhaps none!
We fired his ass after that.
You don't get to be the best city on earth by being narrow-minded and exclusionary.
It's unbelievable how the fear and hatred have been evolving the last decades. Maybe we have those kind of feelings as long as Muslims have been coming to work here in the 1060-1970. But in the earlier days, these kinds of open hostilities were not tolerated in society as a whole, since the end of the 1990 this has changed. The Multi- cultural society has been declared bankrupt, and since then the far right has declared it time to call the spade a spade.
In other words fear mongering and discrimination has became once again political strategy, and the fragile balance between different religions and different skin colors, becomes more and more under pressure,
Muslims are more and more becoming second hand subordinate citizens in Europe, as the Jews once were... I'm ashamed to be part of such a society...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
And no, I'm not proud of my prejudicial reaction to a redneck. It was wrong, I was wrong. The Europeans crying for assimilation are wrong. I feel like Oprah. You're wrong, you're wrong, EVERYBODY is wrong!!!
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435