This isn't a debate on whether or not people can fly the flag. They have every right to do so. The debate is centered around flying the flag on state house grounds. I personally do not want that flag to represent me. And if it if flying next to my capitol building, it does represent me.
Luckily, the SC house and Senate voted today to have the flag removed and placed in the confederate memorial that it is currently flying next to.
Agree and thanks for update.
In other news, Nascar asked people not to fly it in Daytona but some still did. All claimed southern pride.
This isn't a debate on whether or not people can fly the flag. They have every right to do so. The debate is centered around flying the flag on state house grounds. I personally do not want that flag to represent me. And if it if flying next to my capitol building, it does represent me.
Luckily, the SC house and Senate voted today to have the flag removed and placed in the confederate memorial that it is currently flying next to.
So far, just the Senate has voted to remove the flag. I think it's going to be introduced to the House this afternoon with a possible vote tomorrow.
The State newspaper is reporting that there might be some roadblocks in the House. I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me.
My apologies, I thought the house voted yesterday.
This isn't a debate on whether or not people can fly the flag. They have every right to do so. The debate is centered around flying the flag on state house grounds. I personally do not want that flag to represent me. And if it if flying next to my capitol building, it does represent me.
Luckily, the SC house and Senate voted today to have the flag removed and placed in the confederate memorial that it is currently flying next to.
So far, just the Senate has voted to remove the flag. I think it's going to be introduced to the House this afternoon with a possible vote tomorrow.
The State newspaper is reporting that there might be some roadblocks in the House. I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me.
My apologies, I thought the house voted yesterday.
No biggie. Just hoping that Congress doesn't get in the way of progress.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
the south will rise again?
do you mean the south that seceded from the union and waged a war of treason against the united states, only to be defeated and forced back into the union under reconstruction? is that what you mean by the south rising again? or do you mean the jim crow era south that came after that defeat?
i have never seen so many celebrate the loss of a war the way the people in southern states do.
it is over. take the flag down and put it in a museum.
while we are at it, can we please stop calling it "the war of northern aggression"? the very notion of that is rewriting history.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
Being proud of being southern is exactly like being a Yankees fan. We like being in packs or groups as a society and humans gravitate for protection. Depending on threat we change packs.
Course politicians use this as their main strategy. Us versus them.
Being proud of being southern is exactly like being a Yankees fan. We like being in packs or groups as a society and humans gravitate for protection. Depending on threat we change packs.
Course politicians use this as their main strategy. Us versus them.
I'll bet those groups get a little bigger and more of them as time goes by.
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
In this whole debate about whether or not the flag is racist in nature, I've asked people on social media, here in KY, if they've ever actually read any of the secession documents. Of course, none of them have In each document, the state that secedes makes it very clear that their reason for secession is slavery. In fact, some of the states even go so far as to state the superiority of the white race.
"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
history & pride
Godfather.
Proud of what and elements of that history, explain please.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
history & pride
Godfather.
Proud of what and elements of that history, explain please.
HAHAHAHHAHA well I see what your doing here....nice ! but I don't want to play. lets just say we might disagree.
Godfather.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
history & pride
Godfather.
Proud of what and elements of that history, explain please.
HAHAHAHHAHA well I see what your doing here....nice ! but I don't want to play. lets just say we might disagree.
Godfather.
Own it man. They should. See , my defintion or beliefs on what that stuff comprises may be different than yours or theirs. So I ask.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
history & pride
Godfather.
Proud of what and elements of that history, explain please.
Yep that's the question everyone dodges, I live in a pretty redneck area of PA and I've had this argument quite a few times in the past few weeks. "The civil war wasn't just about slavery" well then what else was it about? Literally the best answer I've gotten to that question is "I don't know but I'm sure there was other things." So at the very best people are fighting for a flag that is racist or a flag that they have no idea what exactly it means.
and they say the south will rise again....this flag issue autta give it a jump-start.
Godfather.
Huh?
the flag issue will only make southern pride stronger, people come together when thier heritage is attacked, just my guess.
Godfather.
Define that heritage please.
well of corse the south will not rise as Gimmi stated but southen pride will or might spike, it seems that not all people are willing to give up thier history just because a group of prius driving cale eating hippies calls if racism and I find it funny that thier only argument is sumed up in one word "racism" the good ol' stand by word for almost any debate and some folks are getting tired of it....but in the end we'll see how this turns out.
Godfather.
Define that heritage. What components make up southern heritage?
history & pride
Godfather.
Proud of what and elements of that history, explain please.
HAHAHAHHAHA well I see what your doing here....nice ! but I don't want to play. lets just say we might disagree.
Godfather.
It's a pretty reasonable question. Are you not answering because you have no idea?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
you all must not read up on the history of that war, it was actually bloodier than just about any war after it, generations of southern familys still live in those areas and that flag represents the courage and loss of family members but the race card holders wouldn't understand that, btw my brother n laws family members fought in that war and he has pictures and even a old rifle past down from generation to generation and that's heritage and pride...but go ahead and pull your race card and I'll see if I can give a shit for it...probably not thou.
Godfather.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
you all must not read up on the history of that war, it was actually bloodier than just about any war after it, generations of southern familys still live in those areas and that flag represents the courage and loss of family members but the race card holders wouldn't understand that, btw my brother n laws family members fought in that war and he has pictures and even a old rifle past down from generation to generation and that's heritage and pride...but go ahead and pull your race card and I'll see if I can give a shit for it...probably not thou.
Godfather.
I understand what you're saying, I just don't understand why people are proud of their ancestors fighting in a war against their own country (traitors), in a fight for the continuation of slavery (racists). Sure they were brave, and too many people lost their lives, but being proud of that fight or the association with that cause makes no sense to me. To top it off, they were the losers. So I guess I'm not sure which component fills them with the most pride - their ancestors being traitors, racists, or losers. Or maybe they're proud of the whole package. Just not getting it, but I'm just a Yankee, so wouldn't really understand I guess.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Revisionist history. The Confederates lost, they rewrote events to justify their position (racist) and loss. Hence, terms like "war of northern aggression" that were still in textbooks in the South 15-20 years ago. Succeeding generations have believed the revised view of events ever since the war ended. At the end of the war, the south starting saying it was about other "things" like economic issues and states rights. However, they never get beyond the surface and explain that the entire southern economy was based on one thing - agriculture - which was completely dependent on slave labor. And the only states right in question was the right to retain 'property', i.e., slaves.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
you all must not read up on the history of that war, it was actually bloodier than just about any war after it, generations of southern familys still live in those areas and that flag represents the courage and loss of family members but the race card holders wouldn't understand that, btw my brother n laws family members fought in that war and he has pictures and even a old rifle past down from generation to generation and that's heritage and pride...but go ahead and pull your race card and I'll see if I can give a shit for it...probably not thou.
Godfather.
I had a boyfriend whose grandfather fought for the Nazis and he was a proud German and lost many people he cared about in that war, but he didn't fly a swastika.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
here ya go a little history everybody should enjoy....even the race card wavers.
Godfather.
I suppose I'm a "race card waver" on this topic, so here's what I got from the article.
Point 1 talks about economics, and the need for the South to rely on slavery for their cotton industry.
Point 2 talks about states rights - and what states rights were they fighting for? The right to continue to own slaves.
Point 3 talks about conflicts between proponents and opponents of slavery.
Point 4 talks about the north becoming more polarized against slavery.
Point 5 talks about the south disliking Lincoln because he was anti-slavery.
So as far as I can tell, the top 5 reasons for the Civil War were related to slavery, which is what most of us have been saying. I'm not sure what point you were trying to get across with the article, but it reinforces the notion that the war was about the south wanting to protect their slave labor.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Comments
In other news, Nascar asked people not to fly it in Daytona but some still did. All claimed southern pride.
Godfather.
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Why not just buy a 69 charger for $15K and paint it orange?
do you mean the south that seceded from the union and waged a war of treason against the united states, only to be defeated and forced back into the union under reconstruction? is that what you mean by the south rising again? or do you mean the jim crow era south that came after that defeat?
i have never seen so many celebrate the loss of a war the way the people in southern states do.
it is over. take the flag down and put it in a museum.
while we are at it, can we please stop calling it "the war of northern aggression"? the very notion of that is rewriting history.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
Course politicians use this as their main strategy. Us versus them.
Godfather.
"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."
That is from the Texas secession document. americancivilwar.com/documents/
Southerners can call it heritage but that heritage is racism, pure and simple.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
lets just say we might disagree.
Godfather.
Your non answrs are suggestive.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
here ya go a little history everybody should enjoy....even the race card wavers.
Godfather.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Point 1 talks about economics, and the need for the South to rely on slavery for their cotton industry.
Point 2 talks about states rights - and what states rights were they fighting for? The right to continue to own slaves.
Point 3 talks about conflicts between proponents and opponents of slavery.
Point 4 talks about the north becoming more polarized against slavery.
Point 5 talks about the south disliking Lincoln because he was anti-slavery.
So as far as I can tell, the top 5 reasons for the Civil War were related to slavery, which is what most of us have been saying. I'm not sure what point you were trying to get across with the article, but it reinforces the notion that the war was about the south wanting to protect their slave labor.