read a good quote today; "hate does not preside in clothing,flags or material it presides in the heart" but we humans always need something to point a finger at right ?
read a good quote today; "hate does not preside in clothing,flags or material it presides in the heart" but we humans always need something to point a finger at right ?
Godfather.
This is true, but so is the fact that the hate that resides in our hearts is demonstrated and represented with clothing, flags, and material.
Nobody is pointing fingers at anything except for distasteful beliefs that have astonishingly been maintained at a public and high profile setting.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,855
read a good quote today; "hate does not preside in clothing,flags or material it presides in the heart" but we humans always need something to point a finger at right ?
Godfather.
Sure, when these things are used as statements for heart residing hate or bigotry
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
read a good quote today; "hate does not preside in clothing,flags or material it presides in the heart" but we humans always need something to point a finger at right ?
Godfather.
It's called a symbol for a reason.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,855
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
What about it is offensive to you?
I was just making a point, if it offends me or not does not matter, many people including some blacks see the confederate flag as a symbol of heritage and history but according to some here that don't matter because they see it differently so why not a G/P flag that offends others for what ever reason ? ....two sides to every coin and excuses don't count.
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
just for the sake of argument... divison...a symbol difference,gay not straight seperating the two unity..gay people coming together as a group, again seperation and why do you assume I "Hate" ? I do not hate but I understand why you might think that but I really don't.
and I feel just fine with who I am and I'm honest about it always.
Godfather.
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
That's funny (I'm laughing) why, years ago I had and still have a love for bumper stickers. I had that flag on my truck not because of what it meant because at the time I had no idea behind its meaning. I liked the colors. My sister after some time told me what it meant I can remember saying really....I kept it there anyway.
Peace
Post edited by g under p on
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
just for the sake of argument... divison...a symbol difference,gay not straight seperating the two unity..gay people coming together as a group, again seperation and why do you assume I "Hate" ? I do not hate but I understand why you might think that but I really don't.
and I feel just fine with who I am and I'm honest about it always.
Godfather.
GF, you know there's sometimes a spectrum between our views...and other times, I get you - whether ultimately agreed or not, understand your basis. As I feel with others, with you as well - I respect your being forthright no matter the responses, and also when you have reconsidered. Not to mention laughed at yourself.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're hateful.
I had a roommate (he was sweet but fairly dumb) who hung a Confederate flag on his bedroom wall. I saw it for the first time and was horrified, since I didn't even really know the guy when we became roommates, and was suddenly worried that I was sharing my place with some creepy racist, lol. But it turned out that he was just naive and thought it was a cool looking flag, and when I told him what it symbolized he was surprised, but frankly, I'm not sure he quite believed me. But then I told him that if he kept that up and brought chicks home, he might miss the chance of getting laid because they'd want to get the hell out of there since they might think he's a white supremacist. He took it down.
(remember we're in Canada. I know there is a controversy down in the US, but there isn't really one here as far as what it symbolizes goes. I think it's safe to say that anyone displaying a Confederate flag here is automatically going to be presumed racist or perhaps are simply so stupid that they are displaying a flag of which they have zero knowledge but think it's just ironically hokey redneck because of the Dukes of Hazard, lol).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
Same experience here thirty. I made the jump around the ripe old age of 21. Mostly due to the views of my then girlfriend and current wife. Deep down I always knew my homophobia was wrong but it`s hard to let go of that fear of the unknown. Whether it be people of different faiths, colour or sexual orientation...it`s tough to break free of how we were raised and the views of our peers.
So glad I did, the world is a much happier place without all that baggage.
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
Same experience here thirty. I made the jump around the ripe old age of 21. Mostly due to the views of my then girlfriend and current wife. Deep down I always knew my homophobia was wrong but it`s hard to let go of that fear of the unknown. Whether it be people of different faiths, colour or sexual orientation...it`s tough to break free of how we were raised and the views of our peers.
So glad I did, the world is a much happier place without all that baggage.
It's all about improving. I used to think I knew everything until I realized I knew nothing.
You are correct: one must break from the shackles that exist to limit or stagnate human growth. If I had conformed to what my upbringing wished for me... I'd be useless.
Tool: "Think for yourself. Question authority."
The leaders and institutions that have sought to serve the subservient have been extremely rare.
just for the sake of argument... divison...a symbol difference,gay not straight seperating the two unity..gay people coming together as a group, again seperation and why do you assume I "Hate" ? I do not hate but I understand why you might think that but I really don't.
and I feel just fine with who I am and I'm honest about it always.
Godfather.
GF, you know there's sometimes a spectrum between our views...and other times, I get you - whether ultimately agreed or not, understand your basis. As I feel with others, with you as well - I respect your being forthright no matter the responses, and also when you have reconsidered. Not to mention laughed at yourself.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're hateful.
you are very kind and wise person, I may not always be right but I know a good person when I read one...LOL! you rock H !
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
maybe someday bro, but right now I'm happy thinking for myself and taking some advice and thinking on it (how could I be wrong if it's my issue ?) LOL !!!!!
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
maybe someday bro, but right now I'm happy thinking for myself and taking some advice and thinking on it (how could I be wrong if it's my issue ?) LOL !!!!!
On the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg, Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s last attempt at breaking the Union line ends in disastrous failure, bringing the most decisive battle of the American Civil War to an end.
In June 1863, following his masterful victory at the Battle of Chancellorsville, General Lee launched his second invasion of the Union in less than a year. He led his 75,000-man Army of Northern Virginia across the Potomac River, through Maryland, and into Pennsylvania, seeking to win a major battle on Northern soil that would further dispirit the Union war effort and induce Britain or France to intervene on the Confederacy’s behalf. The 90,000-strong Army of the Potomac pursued the Confederates into Maryland, but its commander, General Joseph Hooker, was still stinging from his defeat at Chancellorsville and seemed reluctant to chase Lee further. Meanwhile, the Confederates divided their forces and investigated various targets, such as Harrisburg, the Pennsylvania capital.
On June 28, President Abraham Lincoln replaced Hooker with General George Meade, and Lee learned of the presence of the Army of the Potomac in Maryland. Lee ordered his army to concentrate in the vicinity of the crossroads town of Gettysburg and prepare to meet the Federal army. At the same time, Meade sent ahead part of his force into Pennsylvania but intended to make a stand at Pipe Creek in Maryland.
On July 1, a Confederate division under General Henry Heth marched into Gettysburg hoping to seize supplies but finding instead three brigades of Union cavalry. Thus began the Battle of Gettysburg, and Lee and Meade ordered their massive armies to converge on the impromptu battle site. The Union cavalrymen defiantly held the field against overwhelming numbers until the arrival of Federal reinforcements. Later, the Confederates were reinforced, and by mid-afternoon some 19,000 Federals faced 24,000 Confederates. Lee arrived to the battlefield soon afterward and ordered a general advance that forced the Union line back to Cemetery Hill, just south of the town.
During the night, the rest of Meade’s force arrived, and by the morning Union General Winfield Hancock had formed a strong Union line. On July 2, against the Union left, General James Longstreet led the main Confederate attack, but it was not carried out until about 4 p.m., and the Federals had time to consolidate their positions. Thus began some of the heaviest fighting of the battle, and Union forces retained control of their strategic positions at heavy cost. After three hours, the battle ended, and the total number of dead at Gettysburg stood at 35,000.
On July 3, Lee, having failed on the right and the left, planned an assault on Meade’s center. A 15,000-man strong column under General George Pickett was organized, and Lee ordered a massive bombardment of the Union positions. The 10,000 Federals answered the Confederate artillery onslaught, and for more than an hour the guns raged in the heaviest cannonade of the Civil War. At 3 p.m., Pickett led his force into no-man’s-land and found that Lee’s bombardment had failed. As Pickett’s force attempted to cross the mile distance to Cemetery Ridge, Union artillery blew great holes in their lines. Meanwhile, Yankee infantry flanked the main body of “Pickett’s charge” and began cutting down the Confederates. Only a few hundred Virginians reached the Union line, and within minutes they all were dead, dying, or captured. In less than an hour, more than 7,000 Confederate troops had been killed or wounded.
Both armies, exhausted, held their positions until the night of July 4, when Lee withdrew. The Army of the Potomac was too weak to pursue the Confederates, and Lee led his army out of the North, never to invade it again. The Battle of Gettysburg was the turning point in the Civil War, costing the Union 23,000 killed, wounded, or missing in action. The Confederates suffered some 25,000 casualties. On November 19, 1863, President Lincoln delivered his famous Gettysburg Address during the dedication of a new national cemetery at the site of the Battle of Gettysburg. The Civil War effectively ended with the surrender of General Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia in April 1865.
Moral of the story, American flag prevails, Confederate flag fails.
Now I want to watch Gettysburg lol
And Confederates looked to France for support. Oh the travesty!
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
TB you still have a way to go on your journey. DP.
the gay pride flag is also a "symbol".....and IT offends me so should it be banned ?
Godfather.
One is a symbol of love and unity, the other hate and division. I`m sad you are offended by that Godfather. Let go of the hate, it`s a burden and you will feel much better. Speaking from experience here.
The offence you take, GF, is your issue. You are currently incapable of seeing the error in your mindset.
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
TB you still have a way to go on your journey. DP.
No. I got that one figured out. There's other areas in my life that need work, but my perspective on that issue is solidified beyond any doubt.
This morning I was working, slinging soda in Wal-Mart, New PPhiladelphia, Ohio. There is a substantial population of Guatemalan immigrants in town, and they all shop at Wal-Mart. A clean, nearly dressed Guatemalan gentleman asked me: "Excuse me sir, would you help me? I can't reach the 12 packs of water on the top shelf over there." In case you didn't know, they are not a tall people at all lol. I'm not making fun or stereotyping, it's just a fact that they are very short on average. Anyways, I fetched in down and handed it off with a smile and he said "Thank you sir" and I said "No problem" and turned the other way to go about my business. It was at this point that I realized there was a dirty scraggly hillbilly behind me, and behind him a hugely obese woman on a mobility scooter. He was giving me evil eyes for helping the guy out, and he said "fucking Mexicans" loudly and with as much venom as possible. I went about my work because my folks taught me to mind my own business, but I looked back with some choice words in mind and his ratty jean jacket was sporting a Confederate flag. I would much rather have immigrants than people like this trash and his trashy wife.
I think people should be free to fly this flag. I will even defend their ability to do so.
BUT....I am also free to completely discount anything they have to say about their fellow man. Literally anything they have to say. Someone who supports and flies this flag, an adopted symbol of hate groups around the world, based on some misguided idea of heritage is completely missing the point of the argument over this flag. In fact, the flag itself is a symbol of treason if we are being technical about it. It was a symbol of treason long before it was a symbol for southern heritage. To sum up, it is a symbol of: 1. treason 2. hate and hate groups (KKK, Neo-Nazis ... you know...Morons) 3. heritage
So I can assume the person flying it is a treasonous, hate-filled person who is proud of being from the south and may or may not be a neo-nazi or member of the KKK. If they do not hate and simply are flying it as a symbol of southern pride I am free to assume they are simply too self-centered to be anything but a waste of my time. This flag in no way will ever be helpful in building community with division and I think it is useless for anything other than promoting hate.
This argument over a symbol reminds me of office space:
SN: "Why don't you just change your name?"
MB: "Why should I change my name, he is the one who sucks?"
names, words, and flags are symbols, symbols stir thoughts in the mind...that flag does not stir good ones for a large portion of society and no matter what it meant to someone before, it now means "I hate" to the majority of people. Two options really, You can either keep the flag and fly it as a symbol of southern pride and let everyone assume you hate large groups of people for no reason or you can realize it has now become synonymous with hate groups and be proud of your heritage some other way.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,855
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
That's a good question. We should ask the defenders of the flag who keep saying the flag is about heritage rather than hate. I don't think it is an either or. I think the flag is a symbol of heritage for sure. A heritage of hate, and racism. And treason, as Mike pointed out above. That is the southern heritage the flag symbolizes, and always has.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
This isn't a debate on whether or not people can fly the flag. They have every right to do so. The debate is centered around flying the flag on state house grounds. I personally do not want that flag to represent me. And if it if flying next to my capitol building, it does represent me.
Luckily, the SC house and Senate voted today to have the flag removed and placed in the confederate memorial that it is currently flying next to.
This isn't a debate on whether or not people can fly the flag. They have every right to do so. The debate is centered around flying the flag on state house grounds. I personally do not want that flag to represent me. And if it if flying next to my capitol building, it does represent me.
Luckily, the SC house and Senate voted today to have the flag removed and placed in the confederate memorial that it is currently flying next to.
So far, just the Senate has voted to remove the flag. I think it's going to be introduced to the House this afternoon with a possible vote tomorrow.
The State newspaper is reporting that there might be some roadblocks in the House. I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Comments
Nobody is pointing fingers at anything except for distasteful beliefs that have astonishingly been maintained at a public and high profile setting.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
divison...a symbol difference,gay not straight seperating the two
unity..gay people coming together as a group, again seperation
and why do you assume I "Hate" ? I do not hate but I understand why you might think that but I really don't.
and I feel just fine with who I am and I'm honest about it always.
Godfather.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
For what it's worth, I don't think you're hateful.
(remember we're in Canada. I know there is a controversy down in the US, but there isn't really one here as far as what it symbolizes goes. I think it's safe to say that anyone displaying a Confederate flag here is automatically going to be presumed racist or perhaps are simply so stupid that they are displaying a flag of which they have zero knowledge but think it's just ironically hokey redneck because of the Dukes of Hazard, lol).
I argued similarly when I was young and not as evolved. Fortunately, the clouds moved away from the sun and I eventually saw things clearly. I feel you are close to making that evolutionary jump. Don't hold back, man. Once you do you will regret taking so long to do so.
So glad I did, the world is a much happier place without all that baggage.
You are correct: one must break from the shackles that exist to limit or stagnate human growth. If I had conformed to what my upbringing wished for me... I'd be useless.
Tool: "Think for yourself. Question authority."
The leaders and institutions that have sought to serve the subservient have been extremely rare.
Godfather.
Godfather.
There's hope for you, man. Enjoy your evening.
Have a good day.
In case you didn't know, they are not a tall people at all lol. I'm not making fun or stereotyping, it's just a fact that they are very short on average.
Anyways, I fetched in down and handed it off with a smile and he said "Thank you sir" and I said "No problem" and turned the other way to go about my business.
It was at this point that I realized there was a dirty scraggly hillbilly behind me, and behind him a hugely obese woman on a mobility scooter. He was giving me evil eyes for helping the guy out, and he said "fucking Mexicans" loudly and with as much venom as possible.
I went about my work because my folks taught me to mind my own business, but I looked back with some choice words in mind and his ratty jean jacket was sporting a Confederate flag.
I would much rather have immigrants than people like this trash and his trashy wife.
BUT....I am also free to completely discount anything they have to say about their fellow man. Literally anything they have to say. Someone who supports and flies this flag, an adopted symbol of hate groups around the world, based on some misguided idea of heritage is completely missing the point of the argument over this flag. In fact, the flag itself is a symbol of treason if we are being technical about it. It was a symbol of treason long before it was a symbol for southern heritage.
To sum up, it is a symbol of:
1. treason
2. hate and hate groups (KKK, Neo-Nazis ... you know...Morons)
3. heritage
So I can assume the person flying it is a treasonous, hate-filled person who is proud of being from the south and may or may not be a neo-nazi or member of the KKK. If they do not hate and simply are flying it as a symbol of southern pride I am free to assume they are simply too self-centered to be anything but a waste of my time. This flag in no way will ever be helpful in building community with division and I think it is useless for anything other than promoting hate.
This argument over a symbol reminds me of office space:
SN: "Why don't you just change your name?"
MB: "Why should I change my name, he is the one who sucks?"
names, words, and flags are symbols, symbols stir thoughts in the mind...that flag does not stir good ones for a large portion of society and no matter what it meant to someone before, it now means "I hate" to the majority of people.
Two options really, You can either keep the flag and fly it as a symbol of southern pride and let everyone assume you hate large groups of people for no reason or you can realize it has now become synonymous with hate groups and be proud of your heritage some other way.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Luckily, the SC house and Senate voted today to have the flag removed and placed in the confederate memorial that it is currently flying next to.
The State newspaper is reporting that there might be some roadblocks in the House. I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me.