confederate flag: offensive or historical? (part II)

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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    brianlux said:

    callen said:

    brianlux said:

    callen said:

    joseph33 said:

    What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.

    Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.

    understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.

    It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
    I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.

    Brian, think Humans just yearn to be a part of a "Team". Whatever it is. Survival instinct and depending on threat and or benefit the teams will change. Look at Harley riders waving to each other. Fans of football teams. Being proud American. Hell we're all on team Pearl Jam. Just natural. After 9-11 we all banded together as Team America against Team Muslim Evildoer.

    Had a friend from New York that moved to Texas and he got tired of how Texans added Big as Texas, Texas sized sale, Texas edition Truck etc etc. I didn't notice as I'd been here for a while. Just part of our nature. Oh and this guy played Ten for me and I was hooked. Thanks Paul Riz.... if your out there.
    Ha ha, gotta admit, Callen, I'm kind of proud to be part of Team Pearl Jam. Best fans anywhere. Big as Alaska, LOL!



    Exactly.

    And I would gladly rock next to any of my pro death penalty, confederate flag waving, gun toting, conservative fellow PEARL JAM teammates at the next Pj gig. Whenever that would be.


    Damn that was a great example. Patting myself on the back.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    The Apple Store is banning civil war games that have the confederate flag in them ... the internet mob has come full circle.

    Heads on spikes! Heads on spikes! Heads on spikes!

    (heads are put on spikes. one week later the heads are forgotten)
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    Party On, Dudes!
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,775
    Okay, well getting rid of it when it's specifically presented in the context of the civil war is really stupid.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,826
    brianlux said:

    callen said:

    joseph33 said:

    What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.

    Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.

    understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.

    It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
    I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.

    Yeah that is a weird thing , hey I'm a proud Northerner yada yada crap ...
    Just be proud of your own human accomplishments ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • markymark550
    markymark550 Columbia, SC Posts: 5,224
    You Yankees just don't get it :lol:
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJ_Soul said:

    Okay, well getting rid of it when it's specifically presented in the context of the civil war is really stupid.

    Agreed. This is retarded.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,775
    edited June 2015
    markymark550 said:

    You Yankees just don't get it :lol:

    Please tell us exactly what it is Southerners are so fucking proud of about being Southern that's not found elsewhere, and maybe we will. Maybe not, but maybe.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    The confederate flag was a racist flag right from the get go.
  • NewJPage
    NewJPage Posts: 3,320
    PJ_Soul said:

    Okay, well getting rid of it when it's specifically presented in the context of the civil war is really stupid.

    It wasn't really prominent during the Civil War. It was basically flown off of a few naval vessels. After the war a few small Confederate veterans groups used it, then the KKK adopted it as their symbol. It was not prominently displayed in the south until the civil rights movement when the region adopted it.
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,775
    NewJPage said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Okay, well getting rid of it when it's specifically presented in the context of the civil war is really stupid.

    It wasn't really prominent during the Civil War. It was basically flown off of a few naval vessels. After the war a few small Confederate veterans groups used it, then the KKK adopted it as their symbol. It was not prominently displayed in the south until the civil rights movement when the region adopted it.
    If it's a battle flag from the civil war then there is no problem with it being in civil war battle video games IMO.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • justam
    justam Posts: 21,415
    Offensive
    It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    dignin said:

    eeriepadave said:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/06/23/every-state-flag-is-wrong-and-here-is-why/

    I almost had a seizure when I got to Maryland.
    Easy now that was my home state for many years. Those colors I believe are for two prominent BRITISH families the Calverts and the Crosslands. Something like that and nothing?

    Peace

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  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Yup. It is messed up. Anyone with half an education and 10 minutes of google time should be able to understand that this flag's popularity rose with the South's opposition to the civil rights movement. It is symbolic, not of honor in battle, but of racism and hate. Anyone flying this flag is going to (perhaps rightly) be perceived a racist. Southern Pride is a stupid excuse. Create a new flag to show your southern pride (whatever that is).

    Similarly, I really like the Gadsden Flag. I appreciate the "Don't Tread On Me" sentiments. But unfortunately that flag was co-opted by the Tea Party years ago, and I won't touch it now. I can appreciate it's historical significance, but don't want to be associated with the idiots who fly it today.

    The confederate flag is no different. It may have some historical significance to Northern Virginia's participation in the Civil War, but anyone flying it now is automatically lumped in with the modern symbolism of the flag - ignorant, white, and racist.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,775
    edited June 2015
    justam said:

    Offensive
    It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!

    Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,813
    PJ_Soul said:

    justam said:

    Offensive
    It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!

    Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
    Cant forget the natives continuing treatment either
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,775
    edited June 2015
    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    justam said:

    Offensive
    It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!

    Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
    Cant forget the natives continuing treatment either
    No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,813
    PJ_Soul said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    justam said:

    Offensive
    It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!

    Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
    Cant forget the natives continuing treatment either
    No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
    to be fair on that score though, we need to get ALL PLAYERS in that business under the spotlight. Ask the Queen what she thinks about her nations history there in north america.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    I generally have a pretty dim view of anyone sporting a confederate flag, but I don't think the flag is the cause of the shooting that took place in Charleston.

    I think people are rallying against the flag because it makes them feel like they are doing something in response.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    know1 said:

    I generally have a pretty dim view of anyone sporting a confederate flag, but I don't think the flag is the cause of the shooting that took place in Charleston.

    I think people are rallying against the flag because it makes them feel like they are doing something in response.

    I agree with this. The flag has no business being flown at, near or above a government building, and it should have been removed from such places years ago. In fact it should have never been flown in the first place. It is a symbol of racism but it is only that, a symbol. Maybe removing it is a place to start and for that reason I am for it, but it is not going to bring those people back or change the minds of anyone willing to commit such acts. It does feel, as you say, like an easy response so that people can feel like they are doing something.



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  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    Jason P said:

    The Apple Store is banning civil war games that have the confederate flag in them ... the internet mob has come full circle.

    Heads on spikes! Heads on spikes! Heads on spikes!

    (heads are put on spikes. one week later the heads are forgotten)

    Sweet tap dancing Christ on a hot tin roof. We have just jumped the fucking shark as a species, and I cannot believe I was alive to witness it.

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