No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
So what?? They have nothing to do with the Confederate flag. I'm pretty sure you people trying to pull other parties in here is a way to somehow lessen the responsibility of America when it comes to slavery. Like spreading the blame around takes some responsibilty away from America. I find this tactic fairly appalling as well.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
So what?? They have nothing to do with the Confederate flag. I'm pretty sure you people trying to pull other parties in here is a way to somehow lessen the responsibility of America when it comes to slavery. Like spreading the blame around takes some responsibilty away from America. I find this tactic fairly appalling as well.
absolutely NOT. What it is , is a call to join the U.S. in being condemned for its past. AS in we arent the only ones , and yet you choose to ignore that? Calling others out for it to stand in condemnation with us in no way diminishes our culpability in slave trade.
Frankly your comment that is quoted first comes across like its ONLY American slavery that REAAAAALLLLLLY bugs you. Kinda negates the suffering of an awful lot more people.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
So what?? They have nothing to do with the Confederate flag. I'm pretty sure you people trying to pull other parties in here is a way to somehow lessen the responsibility of America when it comes to slavery. Like spreading the blame around takes some responsibilty away from America. I find this tactic fairly appalling as well.
not a so what subject realizing the totality of what occured.
Interactive by Andrew Kahn. Background image by Tim Jones.
Usually, when we say “American slavery” or the “American slave trade,” we mean the American colonies or, later, the United States. But as we discussed in Episode 2 of Slate’s History of American Slavery Academy, relative to the entire slave trade, North America was a bit player. From the trade’s beginning in the 16th century to its conclusion in the 19th, slave merchants brought the vast majority of enslaved Africans to two places: the Caribbean and Brazil. Of the more than 10 million enslaved Africans to eventually reach the Western Hemisphere, just 388,747—less than 4 percent of the total—came to North America. This was dwarfed by the 1.3 million brought to Spanish Central America, the 4 million brought to British, French, Dutch, and Danish holdings in the Caribbean, and the 4.8 million brought to Brazil.
This interactive, designed and built by Slate’s Andrew Kahn, gives you a sense of the scale of the trans-Atlantic slave trade across time, as well as the flow of transport and eventual destinations. The dots—which represent individual slave ships—also correspond to the size of each voyage. The larger the dot, the more enslaved people on board. And if you pause the map and click on a dot, you’ll learn about the ship’s flag—was it British? Portuguese? French?—its origin point, its destination, and its history in the slave trade. The interactive animates more than 20,000 voyages cataloged in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database. (We excluded voyages for which there is incomplete or vague information in the database.) The graph at the bottom accumulates statistics based on the raw data used in the interactive and, again, only represents a portion of the actual slave trade—about one-half of the number of enslaved Africans who actually were transported away from the continent.
There are a few trends worth noting. As the first European states with a major presence in the New World, Portugal and Spain dominate the opening century of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, sending hundreds of thousands of enslaved people to their holdings in Central and South America and the Caribbean. The Portuguese role doesn’t wane and increases through the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, as Portugal brings millions of enslaved Africans to the Americas.
In the 1700s, however, Spanish transport diminishes and is replaced (and exceeded) by British, French, Dutch, and—by the end of the century—American activity. This hundred years—from approximately 1725 to 1825—is also the high-water mark of the slave trade, as Europeans send more than 7.2 million people to forced labor, disease, and death in the New World. For a time during this period, British transport even exceeds Portugal’s.
In the final decades of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Portugal reclaims its status as the leading slavers, sending 1.3 million people to the Western Hemisphere, and mostly to Brazil. Spain also returns as a leading nation in the slave trade, sending 400,000 to the West. The rest of the European nations, by contrast, have largely ended their roles in the trade.
By the conclusion of the trans-Atlantic slave trade at the end of the 19th century, Europeans had enslaved and transported more than 12.5 million Africans. At least 2 million, historians estimate, didn’t survive the journey. —Jamelle Bouie
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
So what?? They have nothing to do with the Confederate flag. I'm pretty sure you people trying to pull other parties in here is a way to somehow lessen the responsibility of America when it comes to slavery. Like spreading the blame around takes some responsibilty away from America. I find this tactic fairly appalling as well.
absolutely NOT. What it is , is a call to join the U.S. in being condemned for its past. AS in we arent the only ones , and yet you choose to ignore that? Calling others out for it to stand in condemnation with us in no way diminishes our culpability in slave trade.
Frankly your comment that is quoted first comes across like its ONLY American slavery that REAAAAALLLLLLY bugs you. Kinda negates the suffering of an awful lot more people.
Mickey, not to speak for another poster here but I'm quite certain any kind of slavery would bug PJ_Soul A LOT. It's just that this thread is about a domestic issue that involves the history of slavery and racism in the U.S. No doubt the same problems exist elsewhere, no doubt we would do well to speak out against those problems everywhere but maybe it's not a bad idea to start with our own homeland?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Regarding a few earlier comments about Native Americans and the racist use of their names and symbols, I came across this today:
Native Americans Look At Confederate Flag Controversy And Ask: What About 'Redskins' And Other Racist Symbols?
The Confederate flag’s days seem numbered as retailers and statehouses alike remove (or consider removing) it for public consumption in the wake of the Charleston shooting. But it’s not the only symbol in American culture surrounded by controversy.
Native American activists who have lobbied against the use of derogatory terms such as “redskins” are monitoring the flag controversy in hopes that it will raise a larger national conversation about harmful symbols that are commonly used in popular culture.
“Our country is having a national debate over symbols, and we should take an honest look at those symbols that don’t promote inclusivity but rather promote bigotry,” said Joel Barkin, vice president of the Oneida Indian Nation and spokesperson for Change the Mascot, a national campaign for ending the use of the word “redskins” as the mascot and name of the NFL team in the nation's capital.
Just as defenders of the Confederate flag have argued that it represents pride in Southern culture and history rather than racism, supporters of team names like the "Redskins" have insisted that they actually honor Native Americans. But activists say parallels between the two controversies are worth noting. Even if the intention behind the usage of such symbols isn't to harm, Americans should recognize that minority groups are harmed by them nonetheless -- and eliminate them as a result.
“Proud tradition does not negate the racism of a flag associated with the enslavement of a people, nor does it negate the racism of a moniker that dehumanizes and slurs a people who underwent attempted eradication,” wrote Tara Houska, tribal rights attorney in Washington, in the Indian Country Today Media Network. “Despite empirical studies demonstrating psychological harm, numerous tribal resolutions, lawsuits, and protests spanning decades, the r-word still remains widely accepted.”
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
To me, the issue is very simple. Article 3 of the U.S Constitution makes it very clear what *should* have happened to the traitors who turned their guns on the American government -- death or forfeiture. There should never have been any monuments or new state flags bearing the battle insignia to begin with, starting in 1865. Jefferson Davis and all the generals and ranking officers should have been hanged, and landowning soldiers should have had their property seized to pay reparation for their treason. Complete failure in the post-war period to deal with this issue correctly. Instead, we allowed them to go home and create these stories about their glorious fight against tyranny, and now here we are -- a whole section of the nation who still to this day think they are above the law, "suffering" under the choke of our federal government. Trust me, a significant portion of southern white males and some women are all frothing at the mouth to start another civil war. Why else do you think they believe so strongly of their right to stockpile weapons?
To me, the issue is very simple. Article 3 of the U.S Constitution makes it very clear what *should* have happened to the traitors who turned their guns on the American government -- death or forfeiture. There should never have been any monuments or new state flags bearing the battle insignia to begin with, starting in 1865. Jefferson Davis and all the generals and ranking officers should have been hanged, and landowning soldiers should have had their property seized to pay reparation for their treason. Complete failure in the post-war period to deal with this issue correctly. Instead, we allowed them to go home and create these stories about their glorious fight against tyranny, and now here we are -- a whole section of the nation who still to this day think they are above the law and suffering under the choke of a federal government. Trust me, a significant portion of southern white males and some women are all frothing at the mouth to start another war. They need something to do with all the guns they've got stockpiled.
And that's how I really feel about that
Abraham Lincoln could have done all that. But he was smart enough to know that reconstruction would have taken much longer. His goal was to get the United states back to a whole as soon as possible. He wasn't looking for personal gain or notoriety. Just get the country back together and help the south any way possible.
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
So what?? They have nothing to do with the Confederate flag. I'm pretty sure you people trying to pull other parties in here is a way to somehow lessen the responsibility of America when it comes to slavery. Like spreading the blame around takes some responsibilty away from America. I find this tactic fairly appalling as well.
absolutely NOT. What it is , is a call to join the U.S. in being condemned for its past. AS in we arent the only ones , and yet you choose to ignore that? Calling others out for it to stand in condemnation with us in no way diminishes our culpability in slave trade.
Frankly your comment that is quoted first comes across like its ONLY American slavery that REAAAAALLLLLLY bugs you. Kinda negates the suffering of an awful lot more people.
No, I'm focusing on American slavery because of the topic of this thread.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
The American slave thing? It wasn't just an "American" thing. Slavery encompassed every society, and nearly every religion since the beginning of time...with some of the more "refined" societies abolishing it only 10 to 20 years before us...and it was never suppressed globally until 1890 and 1926.
So what?? They have nothing to do with the Confederate flag. I'm pretty sure you people trying to pull other parties in here is a way to somehow lessen the responsibility of America when it comes to slavery. Like spreading the blame around takes some responsibilty away from America. I find this tactic fairly appalling as well.
absolutely NOT. What it is , is a call to join the U.S. in being condemned for its past. AS in we arent the only ones , and yet you choose to ignore that? Calling others out for it to stand in condemnation with us in no way diminishes our culpability in slave trade.
Frankly your comment that is quoted first comes across like its ONLY American slavery that REAAAAALLLLLLY bugs you. Kinda negates the suffering of an awful lot more people.
Mickey, not to speak for another poster here but I'm quite certain any kind of slavery would bug PJ_Soul A LOT. It's just that this thread is about a domestic issue that involves the history of slavery and racism in the U.S. No doubt the same problems exist elsewhere, no doubt we would do well to speak out against those problems everywhere but maybe it's not a bad idea to start with our own homeland?
Yes, thank you.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
To me, the issue is very simple. Article 3 of the U.S Constitution makes it very clear what *should* have happened to the traitors who turned their guns on the American government -- death or forfeiture. There should never have been any monuments or new state flags bearing the battle insignia to begin with, starting in 1865. Jefferson Davis and all the generals and ranking officers should have been hanged, and landowning soldiers should have had their property seized to pay reparation for their treason. Complete failure in the post-war period to deal with this issue correctly. Instead, we allowed them to go home and create these stories about their glorious fight against tyranny, and now here we are -- a whole section of the nation who still to this day think they are above the law and suffering under the choke of a federal government. Trust me, a significant portion of southern white males and some women are all frothing at the mouth to start another war. They need something to do with all the guns they've got stockpiled.
And that's how I really feel about that
Abraham Lincoln could have done all that. But he was smart enough to know that reconstruction would have taken much longer. His goal was to get the United states back to a whole as soon as possible. He wasn't looking for personal gain or notoriety. Just get the country back together and help the south any way possible.
Abraham Lincoln was shot within months of surrender. He didn't have time to make many post-war decisions, and those who followed in his footsteps didn't help the south by allowing them to construct this bullshit mythology they call their heritage. Psychologically, the South _never_ re-integrated with the union. The people defending the flag will proudly tell you that. They are Southerners before they are Americans. They are more loyal to the fallen Confederacy than they are to this nation as a whole. In general, they hate outsiders, they don't travel much outside of the south, and they don't give a damn how the rest of the world has progressed.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
To me, the issue is very simple. Article 3 of the U.S Constitution makes it very clear what *should* have happened to the traitors who turned their guns on the American government -- death or forfeiture. There should never have been any monuments or new state flags bearing the battle insignia to begin with, starting in 1865. Jefferson Davis and all the generals and ranking officers should have been hanged, and landowning soldiers should have had their property seized to pay reparation for their treason. Complete failure in the post-war period to deal with this issue correctly. Instead, we allowed them to go home and create these stories about their glorious fight against tyranny, and now here we are -- a whole section of the nation who still to this day think they are above the law and suffering under the choke of a federal government. Trust me, a significant portion of southern white males and some women are all frothing at the mouth to start another war. They need something to do with all the guns they've got stockpiled.
And that's how I really feel about that
Abraham Lincoln could have done all that. But he was smart enough to know that reconstruction would have taken much longer. His goal was to get the United states back to a whole as soon as possible. He wasn't looking for personal gain or notoriety. Just get the country back together and help the south any way possible.
Abraham Lincoln was shot within months of surrender. He didn't have time to make many post-war decisions, and those who followed in his footsteps didn't help the south by allowing them to construct this bullshit mythology they call their heritage. Psychologically, the South _never_ re-integrated with the union. The people defending the flag will proudly tell you that. They are Southerners before they are Americans. They are more loyal to the fallen Confederacy than they are to this nation as a whole. In general, they hate outsiders, they don't travel much outside of the south, and they don't give a damn how the rest of the world has progressed.
a defeated occupied nation for 150 yrs.. Look at all the bases of the 4 branches spread throughout the south.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
Then there is this......train keeps a rollin........
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Saw that this morning. First reaction was "Fuck, we don't need this." They need to stay in North Carolina. As Gov. Haley said, "This is our state, and they are not welcome."
Saw that this morning. First reaction was "Fuck, we don't need this." They need to stay in North Carolina. As Gov. Haley said, "This is our state, and they are not welcome."
My first reaction when I heard this is that the KKK are probably the most honest supporters of that flag. They recognize it for what it is and make no excuses or apologies, unlike all of the other supporters of that flag.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Saw that this morning. First reaction was "Fuck, we don't need this." They need to stay in North Carolina. As Gov. Haley said, "This is our state, and they are not welcome."
My first reaction when I heard this is that the KKK are probably the most honest supporters of that flag. They recognize it for what it is and make no excuses or apologies, unlike all of the other supporters of that flag.
That's true, good point. It really highlights the true symbolism behind the flag, and that's probably what most confederate flag supporters need to see right now.... Although I guess I shouldn't give them so much credit as to think they'd actually realize anything. Frankly, I just consider most of those who support the confederate flag to be dumb. Just low IQ'd, mouth-breathing dummy yokels who are too simple-minded to understand why it's wrong. Those who aren't like that are racist jackasses. IMHO, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Trust me, a significant portion of southern white males and some women are all frothing at the mouth to start another civil war. Why else do you think they believe so strongly of their right to stockpile weapons?
A significant portion? I'm going to need proof of that. I've lived in the south my whole life and know lots of people from all over the south, including backwoods parts of the south, and not a one of them are "frothing at the mouth to start another civil war".
Trust me, a significant portion of southern white males and some women are all frothing at the mouth to start another civil war. Why else do you think they believe so strongly of their right to stockpile weapons?
A significant portion? I'm going to need proof of that. I've lived in the south my whole life and know lots of people from all over the south, including backwoods parts of the south, and not a one of them are "frothing at the mouth to start another civil war".
Amazing how many secede bumper stickers I see in Texas.
Saw that this morning. First reaction was "Fuck, we don't need this." They need to stay in North Carolina. As Gov. Haley said, "This is our state, and they are not welcome."
My first reaction when I heard this is that the KKK are probably the most honest supporters of that flag. They recognize it for what it is and make no excuses or apologies, unlike all of the other supporters of that flag.
The Swastika as we all know was a Native American symbol used in their art and heritage, NOT a sign of hate.
So if a Native American was re-visiting their roots and used this image in art would it be considered racist?
Living in a southern state (KY), the amount of ignorance and false information being thrown out about not just the confederate flag but about history is disturbing. I start to comment on these imbeciles comments on the local news FB feed and I just can't get past how incredibly uninformed they seem. Are people really this ignorant?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Saw that this morning. First reaction was "Fuck, we don't need this." They need to stay in North Carolina. As Gov. Haley said, "This is our state, and they are not welcome."
My first reaction when I heard this is that the KKK are probably the most honest supporters of that flag. They recognize it for what it is and make no excuses or apologies, unlike all of the other supporters of that flag.
The Swastika as we all know was a Native American symbol used in their art and heritage, NOT a sign of hate.
So if a Native American was re-visiting their roots and used this image in art would it be considered racist?
Good point. Think the counter would be that those that fly the flag do it for the same hateful reasons KKK does. Represents the bad not historical.
Saw that this morning. First reaction was "Fuck, we don't need this." They need to stay in North Carolina. As Gov. Haley said, "This is our state, and they are not welcome."
My first reaction when I heard this is that the KKK are probably the most honest supporters of that flag. They recognize it for what it is and make no excuses or apologies, unlike all of the other supporters of that flag.
The Swastika as we all know was a Native American symbol used in their art and heritage, NOT a sign of hate.
So if a Native American was re-visiting their roots and used this image in art would it be considered racist?
Good point. Think the counter would be that those that fly the flag do it for the same hateful reasons KKK does. Represents the bad not historical.
I'm a firm believer that ANY flag can be used offensively. Case in point I watched this on the news in Los Angeles years ago.
In California, I don't remember the year but there was a pro Mexican rally and the all latino crowd was cheering and chanting pro Mexico, waving banners and flags. It was a big deal at the time.
An older white male in his 50's comes walking by the crowd carrying an American flag. The crowd starts to attack him and tells him to get that flag out of here.
The man says "you people are here in America where you can do as you please and you are doing so for support of Mexico. There is nothing wrong with that. So why do you yell at me and attack me when I wave the flag that gives you that right?"
When I was in Iraq we were told NOT to wear anything pro American for fear of offending the Iraqi people.
Also if you wore anything with the Iran flag you'd be offending the Iraqi people too.
On the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg, Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s last attempt at breaking the Union line ends in disastrous failure, bringing the most decisive battle of the American Civil War to an end.
In June 1863, following his masterful victory at the Battle of Chancellorsville, General Lee launched his second invasion of the Union in less than a year. He led his 75,000-man Army of Northern Virginia across the Potomac River, through Maryland, and into Pennsylvania, seeking to win a major battle on Northern soil that would further dispirit the Union war effort and induce Britain or France to intervene on the Confederacy’s behalf. The 90,000-strong Army of the Potomac pursued the Confederates into Maryland, but its commander, General Joseph Hooker, was still stinging from his defeat at Chancellorsville and seemed reluctant to chase Lee further. Meanwhile, the Confederates divided their forces and investigated various targets, such as Harrisburg, the Pennsylvania capital.
On June 28, President Abraham Lincoln replaced Hooker with General George Meade, and Lee learned of the presence of the Army of the Potomac in Maryland. Lee ordered his army to concentrate in the vicinity of the crossroads town of Gettysburg and prepare to meet the Federal army. At the same time, Meade sent ahead part of his force into Pennsylvania but intended to make a stand at Pipe Creek in Maryland.
On July 1, a Confederate division under General Henry Heth marched into Gettysburg hoping to seize supplies but finding instead three brigades of Union cavalry. Thus began the Battle of Gettysburg, and Lee and Meade ordered their massive armies to converge on the impromptu battle site. The Union cavalrymen defiantly held the field against overwhelming numbers until the arrival of Federal reinforcements. Later, the Confederates were reinforced, and by mid-afternoon some 19,000 Federals faced 24,000 Confederates. Lee arrived to the battlefield soon afterward and ordered a general advance that forced the Union line back to Cemetery Hill, just south of the town.
During the night, the rest of Meade’s force arrived, and by the morning Union General Winfield Hancock had formed a strong Union line. On July 2, against the Union left, General James Longstreet led the main Confederate attack, but it was not carried out until about 4 p.m., and the Federals had time to consolidate their positions. Thus began some of the heaviest fighting of the battle, and Union forces retained control of their strategic positions at heavy cost. After three hours, the battle ended, and the total number of dead at Gettysburg stood at 35,000.
On July 3, Lee, having failed on the right and the left, planned an assault on Meade’s center. A 15,000-man strong column under General George Pickett was organized, and Lee ordered a massive bombardment of the Union positions. The 10,000 Federals answered the Confederate artillery onslaught, and for more than an hour the guns raged in the heaviest cannonade of the Civil War. At 3 p.m., Pickett led his force into no-man’s-land and found that Lee’s bombardment had failed. As Pickett’s force attempted to cross the mile distance to Cemetery Ridge, Union artillery blew great holes in their lines. Meanwhile, Yankee infantry flanked the main body of “Pickett’s charge” and began cutting down the Confederates. Only a few hundred Virginians reached the Union line, and within minutes they all were dead, dying, or captured. In less than an hour, more than 7,000 Confederate troops had been killed or wounded.
Both armies, exhausted, held their positions until the night of July 4, when Lee withdrew. The Army of the Potomac was too weak to pursue the Confederates, and Lee led his army out of the North, never to invade it again. The Battle of Gettysburg was the turning point in the Civil War, costing the Union 23,000 killed, wounded, or missing in action. The Confederates suffered some 25,000 casualties. On November 19, 1863, President Lincoln delivered his famous Gettysburg Address during the dedication of a new national cemetery at the site of the Battle of Gettysburg. The Civil War effectively ended with the surrender of General Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia in April 1865.
On the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg, Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s last attempt at breaking the Union line ends in disastrous failure, bringing the most decisive battle of the American Civil War to an end.
In June 1863, following his masterful victory at the Battle of Chancellorsville, General Lee launched his second invasion of the Union in less than a year. He led his 75,000-man Army of Northern Virginia across the Potomac River, through Maryland, and into Pennsylvania, seeking to win a major battle on Northern soil that would further dispirit the Union war effort and induce Britain or France to intervene on the Confederacy’s behalf. The 90,000-strong Army of the Potomac pursued the Confederates into Maryland, but its commander, General Joseph Hooker, was still stinging from his defeat at Chancellorsville and seemed reluctant to chase Lee further. Meanwhile, the Confederates divided their forces and investigated various targets, such as Harrisburg, the Pennsylvania capital.
On June 28, President Abraham Lincoln replaced Hooker with General George Meade, and Lee learned of the presence of the Army of the Potomac in Maryland. Lee ordered his army to concentrate in the vicinity of the crossroads town of Gettysburg and prepare to meet the Federal army. At the same time, Meade sent ahead part of his force into Pennsylvania but intended to make a stand at Pipe Creek in Maryland.
On July 1, a Confederate division under General Henry Heth marched into Gettysburg hoping to seize supplies but finding instead three brigades of Union cavalry. Thus began the Battle of Gettysburg, and Lee and Meade ordered their massive armies to converge on the impromptu battle site. The Union cavalrymen defiantly held the field against overwhelming numbers until the arrival of Federal reinforcements. Later, the Confederates were reinforced, and by mid-afternoon some 19,000 Federals faced 24,000 Confederates. Lee arrived to the battlefield soon afterward and ordered a general advance that forced the Union line back to Cemetery Hill, just south of the town.
During the night, the rest of Meade’s force arrived, and by the morning Union General Winfield Hancock had formed a strong Union line. On July 2, against the Union left, General James Longstreet led the main Confederate attack, but it was not carried out until about 4 p.m., and the Federals had time to consolidate their positions. Thus began some of the heaviest fighting of the battle, and Union forces retained control of their strategic positions at heavy cost. After three hours, the battle ended, and the total number of dead at Gettysburg stood at 35,000.
On July 3, Lee, having failed on the right and the left, planned an assault on Meade’s center. A 15,000-man strong column under General George Pickett was organized, and Lee ordered a massive bombardment of the Union positions. The 10,000 Federals answered the Confederate artillery onslaught, and for more than an hour the guns raged in the heaviest cannonade of the Civil War. At 3 p.m., Pickett led his force into no-man’s-land and found that Lee’s bombardment had failed. As Pickett’s force attempted to cross the mile distance to Cemetery Ridge, Union artillery blew great holes in their lines. Meanwhile, Yankee infantry flanked the main body of “Pickett’s charge” and began cutting down the Confederates. Only a few hundred Virginians reached the Union line, and within minutes they all were dead, dying, or captured. In less than an hour, more than 7,000 Confederate troops had been killed or wounded.
Both armies, exhausted, held their positions until the night of July 4, when Lee withdrew. The Army of the Potomac was too weak to pursue the Confederates, and Lee led his army out of the North, never to invade it again. The Battle of Gettysburg was the turning point in the Civil War, costing the Union 23,000 killed, wounded, or missing in action. The Confederates suffered some 25,000 casualties. On November 19, 1863, President Lincoln delivered his famous Gettysburg Address during the dedication of a new national cemetery at the site of the Battle of Gettysburg. The Civil War effectively ended with the surrender of General Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia in April 1865.
Moral of the story, American flag prevails, Confederate flag fails.
Now I want to watch Gettysburg lol
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
Moral is mans hubris and inhumanity towards his fellow man. Has always been thus , shall always be so.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
read a good quote today; "hate does not preside in clothing,flags or material it presides in the heart" but we humans always need something to point a finger at right ?
Comments
Frankly your comment that is quoted first comes across like its ONLY American slavery that REAAAAALLLLLLY bugs you. Kinda negates the suffering of an awful lot more people.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
seriously though,
I believe everyone in the slave trade except the victims have blood on their hands.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_history_of_american_slavery/2015/06/animated_interactive_of_the_history_of_the_atlantic_slave_trade.html
Interactive by Andrew Kahn. Background image by Tim Jones.
Usually, when we say “American slavery” or the “American slave trade,” we mean the American colonies or, later, the United States. But as we discussed in Episode 2 of Slate’s History of American Slavery Academy, relative to the entire slave trade, North America was a bit player. From the trade’s beginning in the 16th century to its conclusion in the 19th, slave merchants brought the vast majority of enslaved Africans to two places: the Caribbean and Brazil. Of the more than 10 million enslaved Africans to eventually reach the Western Hemisphere, just 388,747—less than 4 percent of the total—came to North America. This was dwarfed by the 1.3 million brought to Spanish Central America, the 4 million brought to British, French, Dutch, and Danish holdings in the Caribbean, and the 4.8 million brought to Brazil.
This interactive, designed and built by Slate’s Andrew Kahn, gives you a sense of the scale of the trans-Atlantic slave trade across time, as well as the flow of transport and eventual destinations. The dots—which represent individual slave ships—also correspond to the size of each voyage. The larger the dot, the more enslaved people on board. And if you pause the map and click on a dot, you’ll learn about the ship’s flag—was it British? Portuguese? French?—its origin point, its destination, and its history in the slave trade. The interactive animates more than 20,000 voyages cataloged in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database. (We excluded voyages for which there is incomplete or vague information in the database.) The graph at the bottom accumulates statistics based on the raw data used in the interactive and, again, only represents a portion of the actual slave trade—about one-half of the number of enslaved Africans who actually were transported away from the continent.
There are a few trends worth noting. As the first European states with a major presence in the New World, Portugal and Spain dominate the opening century of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, sending hundreds of thousands of enslaved people to their holdings in Central and South America and the Caribbean. The Portuguese role doesn’t wane and increases through the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, as Portugal brings millions of enslaved Africans to the Americas.
In the 1700s, however, Spanish transport diminishes and is replaced (and exceeded) by British, French, Dutch, and—by the end of the century—American activity. This hundred years—from approximately 1725 to 1825—is also the high-water mark of the slave trade, as Europeans send more than 7.2 million people to forced labor, disease, and death in the New World. For a time during this period, British transport even exceeds Portugal’s.
In the final decades of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Portugal reclaims its status as the leading slavers, sending 1.3 million people to the Western Hemisphere, and mostly to Brazil. Spain also returns as a leading nation in the slave trade, sending 400,000 to the West. The rest of the European nations, by contrast, have largely ended their roles in the trade.
By the conclusion of the trans-Atlantic slave trade at the end of the 19th century, Europeans had enslaved and transported more than 12.5 million Africans. At least 2 million, historians estimate, didn’t survive the journey. —Jamelle Bouie
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://www.ibtimes.com/native-americans-look-confederate-flag-controversy-ask-what-about-redskins-other-1984094
Native Americans Look At Confederate Flag Controversy And Ask: What About 'Redskins' And Other Racist Symbols?
The Confederate flag’s days seem numbered as retailers and statehouses alike remove (or consider removing) it for public consumption in the wake of the Charleston shooting. But it’s not the only symbol in American culture surrounded by controversy.
Native American activists who have lobbied against the use of derogatory terms such as “redskins” are monitoring the flag controversy in hopes that it will raise a larger national conversation about harmful symbols that are commonly used in popular culture.
“Our country is having a national debate over symbols, and we should take an honest look at those symbols that don’t promote inclusivity but rather promote bigotry,” said Joel Barkin, vice president of the Oneida Indian Nation and spokesperson for Change the Mascot, a national campaign for ending the use of the word “redskins” as the mascot and name of the NFL team in the nation's capital.
Just as defenders of the Confederate flag have argued that it represents pride in Southern culture and history rather than racism, supporters of team names like the "Redskins" have insisted that they actually honor Native Americans. But activists say parallels between the two controversies are worth noting. Even if the intention behind the usage of such symbols isn't to harm, Americans should recognize that minority groups are harmed by them nonetheless -- and eliminate them as a result.
“Proud tradition does not negate the racism of a flag associated with the enslavement of a people, nor does it negate the racism of a moniker that dehumanizes and slurs a people who underwent attempted eradication,” wrote Tara Houska, tribal rights attorney in Washington, in the Indian Country Today Media Network. “Despite empirical studies demonstrating psychological harm, numerous tribal resolutions, lawsuits, and protests spanning decades, the r-word still remains widely accepted.”
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
And that's how I really feel about that
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0PA11920150630?irpc=932
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
If he knew his mythology, he would know that the Titans were overthrown quite some time ago.
It really highlights the true symbolism behind the flag, and that's probably what most confederate flag supporters need to see right now.... Although I guess I shouldn't give them so much credit as to think they'd actually realize anything. Frankly, I just consider most of those who support the confederate flag to be dumb. Just low IQ'd, mouth-breathing dummy yokels who are too simple-minded to understand why it's wrong. Those who aren't like that are racist jackasses. IMHO, lol.
So if a Native American was re-visiting their roots and used this image in art would it be considered racist?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
In California, I don't remember the year but there was a pro Mexican rally and the all latino crowd was cheering and chanting pro Mexico, waving banners and flags. It was a big deal at the time.
An older white male in his 50's comes walking by the crowd carrying an American flag. The crowd starts to attack him and tells him to get that flag out of here.
The man says "you people are here in America where you can do as you please and you are doing so for support of Mexico. There is nothing wrong with that. So why do you yell at me and attack me when I wave the flag that gives you that right?"
When I was in Iraq we were told NOT to wear anything pro American for fear of offending the Iraqi people.
Also if you wore anything with the Iran flag you'd be offending the Iraqi people too.
In June 1863, following his masterful victory at the Battle of Chancellorsville, General Lee launched his second invasion of the Union in less than a year. He led his 75,000-man Army of Northern Virginia across the Potomac River, through Maryland, and into Pennsylvania, seeking to win a major battle on Northern soil that would further dispirit the Union war effort and induce Britain or France to intervene on the Confederacy’s behalf. The 90,000-strong Army of the Potomac pursued the Confederates into Maryland, but its commander, General Joseph Hooker, was still stinging from his defeat at Chancellorsville and seemed reluctant to chase Lee further. Meanwhile, the Confederates divided their forces and investigated various targets, such as Harrisburg, the Pennsylvania capital.
On June 28, President Abraham Lincoln replaced Hooker with General George Meade, and Lee learned of the presence of the Army of the Potomac in Maryland. Lee ordered his army to concentrate in the vicinity of the crossroads town of Gettysburg and prepare to meet the Federal army. At the same time, Meade sent ahead part of his force into Pennsylvania but intended to make a stand at Pipe Creek in Maryland.
On July 1, a Confederate division under General Henry Heth marched into Gettysburg hoping to seize supplies but finding instead three brigades of Union cavalry. Thus began the Battle of Gettysburg, and Lee and Meade ordered their massive armies to converge on the impromptu battle site. The Union cavalrymen defiantly held the field against overwhelming numbers until the arrival of Federal reinforcements. Later, the Confederates were reinforced, and by mid-afternoon some 19,000 Federals faced 24,000 Confederates. Lee arrived to the battlefield soon afterward and ordered a general advance that forced the Union line back to Cemetery Hill, just south of the town.
During the night, the rest of Meade’s force arrived, and by the morning Union General Winfield Hancock had formed a strong Union line. On July 2, against the Union left, General James Longstreet led the main Confederate attack, but it was not carried out until about 4 p.m., and the Federals had time to consolidate their positions. Thus began some of the heaviest fighting of the battle, and Union forces retained control of their strategic positions at heavy cost. After three hours, the battle ended, and the total number of dead at Gettysburg stood at 35,000.
On July 3, Lee, having failed on the right and the left, planned an assault on Meade’s center. A 15,000-man strong column under General George Pickett was organized, and Lee ordered a massive bombardment of the Union positions. The 10,000 Federals answered the Confederate artillery onslaught, and for more than an hour the guns raged in the heaviest cannonade of the Civil War. At 3 p.m., Pickett led his force into no-man’s-land and found that Lee’s bombardment had failed. As Pickett’s force attempted to cross the mile distance to Cemetery Ridge, Union artillery blew great holes in their lines. Meanwhile, Yankee infantry flanked the main body of “Pickett’s charge” and began cutting down the Confederates. Only a few hundred Virginians reached the Union line, and within minutes they all were dead, dying, or captured. In less than an hour, more than 7,000 Confederate troops had been killed or wounded.
Both armies, exhausted, held their positions until the night of July 4, when Lee withdrew. The Army of the Potomac was too weak to pursue the Confederates, and Lee led his army out of the North, never to invade it again. The Battle of Gettysburg was the turning point in the Civil War, costing the Union 23,000 killed, wounded, or missing in action. The Confederates suffered some 25,000 casualties. On November 19, 1863, President Lincoln delivered his famous Gettysburg Address during the dedication of a new national cemetery at the site of the Battle of Gettysburg. The Civil War effectively ended with the surrender of General Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia in April 1865.
Now I want to watch Gettysburg lol
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
but we humans always need something to point a finger at right ?
Godfather.