confederate flag: offensive or historical? (part II)

chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
edited May 2013 in A Moving Train
the flag sucks.

i wonder if my challenge has yet been met? do the xxxxx's have the confederate flag waving high at both the homestead & their family business? for 7 long exhaustive weeks I've read how wonderful people support the rebel flag even darker skinned folks. i simply ask for photograph proof of such rebellious behavior.

as of now i have zero proof.

& thank you kat for allowing us peasants to reopen another thread regarding this topic.
for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."

Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,565
    How about not what we think it represents but how it looks do you like the way it looks i find it hard to like it knowing what it stands for ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    offensive to whom??
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
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  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    offensive to whom??
    ten of millions of people
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    offensive to whom??
    ...
    My best guess... the people who suffered as slaves under that flag.
    Sort of the same way Jews really don't like seeing swastikas waved above their heads... brings back horrible nightmares.
    ...
    But, that's just me... i suppose.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    chadwick wrote:
    offensive to whom??
    ten of millions of people


    thanks for not answering my question.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    offensive to whom??
    ...
    My best guess... the people who suffered as slaves under that flag.
    Sort of the same way Jews really don't like seeing swastikas waved above their heads... brings back horrible nightmares.
    ...
    But, that's just me... i suppose.



    thanks cosmo. I was thinking of the descendents of slaves but needed a little clarification.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    chadwick wrote:
    offensive to whom??
    ten of millions of people


    thanks for not answering my question.
    you're welcome

    sorry i don't know them all by name
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because though I'm not a flag waver- especially the confederate flag which to me carries with it an implied bias, I could almost see flying the Blag Flag or Pirate Flag today. Or maybe the Edward Abbey flag that he flew over his home which he called Fort Llatikcuf. (read it backwards).
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    brianlux wrote:
    I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because though I'm not a flag waver- especially the confederate flag which to me carries with it an implied bias, I could almost see flying the Blag Flag or Pirate Flag today. Or maybe the Edward Abbey flag that he flew over his home which he called Fort Llatikcuf. (read it backwards).



    I think we should all be flying the rainbow flag. and yar who isn't up for flying the jolly roger??? 8-)
    hear my name
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    brianlux wrote:
    I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because though I'm not a flag waver- especially the confederate flag which to me carries with it an implied bias, I could almost see flying the Blag Flag or Pirate Flag today. Or maybe the Edward Abbey flag that he flew over his home which he called Fort Llatikcuf. (read it backwards).
    ...
    Hey Brian,
    I display an American Flag off of my porch from time to time. I have other flags... including Great Britian and Canada. I don't fly them, but they were up on my garage walls.
    and I can understand the person that collect WWII memorabilia, such as uniforms, flags and banners... including those with swastikas... because they a a part of history. Those artifacts were part of the world in 1942 and i can see them in a private display in the context of the war.
    But, to wear an SS Officers uniform and hoist a battle flag on the streets of an American city... well, you're kind of a dick for doing that because those things have other meanings when placed in the context of 2013 America. I imagine, only a complete idiot would think otherwise because they would have to be oblivious to the connotations those symbols and images represent.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    brianlux wrote:
    I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because though I'm not a flag waver- especially the confederate flag which to me carries with it an implied bias, I could almost see flying the Blag Flag or Pirate Flag today. Or maybe the Edward Abbey flag that he flew over his home which he called Fort Llatikcuf. (read it backwards).



    I think we should all be flying the rainbow flag. and yar who isn't up for flying the jolly roger??? 8-)

    Hey, hey! I just remembered that, in fact, it was the rainbow flag Mr. Abbey flew over Fort Llatikcuf. He tells the story in one of his books about finding a rainbow flag in San Francisco while on a book tour and took it home and raised that flag. To cool for school!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    IBTL















    ;)
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    so anyways....

    I pledge no allegiance to any flag... even my own country's. in fact my countrys flag rubs me the wrong way for a variety of reasons but the biggest being that in the top right hand corner we have the entire flag of another nation. now yes I understand its representative of our british history and yes I understand that once upon that was relevant... but it is no longer relevant to a great deal of Australians. and as someone with irish heritage I have an issue with it. is the Australian flag historical or offensive? its historical.. all flags representative of a past are. is the Australian flag offensive? to me, no it isn't cause it is up to me what I choose to be offended by. would I be pleased if Australia got a new flag. absolutely I would. is the confederate flag historical? yes it is. is it offensive? that is a question requiring an individual and personal response because we are all individuals who view history differently and we all find different things offensive. as a simple design I think the confederate flag is a good flag. it has balance and good colours and is specific to a region. im more inclined to find the civil war itself offensive .. but I am an outsider and although I know a bit, I am unfamiliar with all the nuances. and while I do not support slavery in any form, I support the souths right to secede. if the south hadve succeeded it would have been their war of independence. ;)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Posts: 10,219
    CAte, you made me wonder, had the south seceded successfully (say that fast ten times!), how long would slavery have lasted? How would it have been eradicated?

    I started to raise the question in the last thread about how people feel about the confederate flag being displayed on their capital building. Would you be OK with it? Are you OK with states like North Carolina, who displayed the flag, then removed it after the uproar that followed. Isnt that saying something?
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Posts: 10,219
    Personally, I think people who display the confederate flag should consider displaying the official Flag of the United States instead, because that flag represents ALL of the history of the country, including the crap that the confederate flag stands for, but it hasnt been adopted by groups like the KKK, and doesnt have as much of an offensive symbolism to an entire race.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    The thing with this flag, it's a battle flag (one of them). The confederation had another flag which was similar to the stars & stripes, then it went to a couple more incorporating the battle flag (during the war). Each state has it's own flag - if one wants to show pride in their state, use that one. Not the one which, in general, is considered a symbol of oppression, etc. Though I think, due to a fluke in the law, one of the states still has the battle flag incorporated in theirs. I also know that Georgia had it up to 10 or so years ago (and was such for 50 years or so). Maybe some states had a bit more difficulties in 'moving on'?
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    CAte, you made me wonder, had the south seceded successfully (say that fast ten times!), how long would slavery have lasted? How would it have been eradicated?

    I started to raise the question in the last thread about how people feel about the confederate flag being displayed on their capital building. Would you be OK with it? Are you OK with states like North Carolina, who displayed the flag, then removed it after the uproar that followed. Isnt that saying something?

    capitalists are always looking for a more efficient method of manufacturing that increases their profits so i think slavery would have slowly disappeared over time as new machinery was invented to replace human labour. lincoln would have lived longer too.

    as people have pointed out, the confederate flag were most familiar with and the one were discussion in this thread, is a battle flag so irrespective of what it means to the people of the south, I think it inappropriate to fly it from any government or public building. the united states is not a divided country, it is as its name states, united. the south really needs to suck it up and stop playing the if only game. as for private citizens.. if they feel the need to fly a losers flag then more power to them I say. ;)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,599
    different state flags of the state of georgia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ge ... U.S._state)

    Whats that one from 1956 to 2001? oh my. Wonder what caused THIS change to and from it?

    The current flag of the U.S. state of Georgia was adopted on May 8, 2003. The flag has three red and white stripes, with the state coat of arms (taken from the state seal) on a blue field in the upper left corner. In the coat of arms, the arch symbolizes the state's Constitution and the pillars represent the three branches of government: legislative, executive, and judicial. The words of the state motto, "Wisdom, Justice, and Moderation," are wrapped around the pillars, guarded by a male figure dressed in Colonial attire like a soldier of the American Revolution, with a drawn sword representing the defense of the Constitution. An additional motto, In God We Trust, appears under these elements, though it is not part of the state seal or coat of arms. It is, however, the official motto of the United States. In the center of the canton is a circle of 13 white stars, symbolizing Georgia as one of the original Thirteen Colonies that later formed the United States of America.[1] The flag's design is based on the First National Flag of the Confederate States of America, which is nicknamed the "Stars and Bars".[2]





    Contents
    [hide] 1 Pledge to the Georgia Flag
    2 Historical flags
    3 Current flag
    4 See also
    5 References
    6 External links


    Pledge to the Georgia Flag [edit]





    I pledge allegiance to the Georgia Flag and to the principles for which it stands: Wisdom, Justice, and Moderation.[3]




    Historical flags [edit]



    Historical Georgia Flags




    Before 1879 (unofficial)


    1879–1902




    1902–1906


    1906–1920




    1920–1956


    1956–2001




    2001–2003


    2003–present


    The state flag used from 1956 to 2001 featured a prominent Confederate Battle Flag, which some residents found offensive due to its historical use by the Confederate States of America and its contemporary use as a symbol by various white supremacy groups. People found it offensive because the emblem was originally adopted not during the American Civil War period but in 1956 during the height of the fight for desegregation during the Civil Rights Movement. Even in 1956, support for the flag was not unanimous, with the United Daughters of the Confederacy opposing the flag with a statement that the change "would cause strife."[citation needed]

    Right after it was repealed as the state flag in 2001, the city of Trenton, Georgia adopted it as the official city flag.[4]

    Twenty-first century adherents of the 1956 flag claimed that the flag was designed to commemorate the upcoming Civil War Centennial five years away.[5] Critics, including Georgia Congressman John Lewis, assert it was only adopted as a symbol of racist protest, especially against the decision of Brown v. Board of Education.[6] A federal appeals court noted in 1997 that the 1956 bill changing the flag was enacted "when its [the state's] public leaders were implementing a campaign of massive resistance to the Supreme Court's school desegregation rulings." Other measures passed that year included bills rejecting Brown v. Board and following up on then-Governor Marvin Griffin's announcement that "The rest of the nation is looking to Georgia for the lead in segregation." [7]

    Political pressure for a change in the official state flag increased during the 1990s, in particular during the run-up to the 1996 Olympic Games that were held in Atlanta. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) focused on the Georgia flag as a major issue and some business leaders in Georgia felt that the perceptions of the flag were causing economic harm to the state. In 1992, Governor Zell Miller announced his intention to get the battle flag element removed, but the state legislature refused to pass any flag-modifying legislation. The matter was dropped after the 1993 legislative session. Many Atlanta residents and some Georgia politicians refused to fly the 1956 flag and flew the pre-1956 flag instead. Governor Miller later apologized for his attempt at changing the flag.[citation needed]

    Miller's successor as Governor, Roy Barnes, responded to the increasing calls for a new state flag, and in 2001 hurried a replacement through the Georgia General Assembly. His new flag sought a compromise, by featuring small versions of some (but not all) of Georgia's former flags, including the controversial 1956 flag, under the words "Georgia's History." Those flags are a thirteen-star U.S. flag of the "Betsy Ross" design; the first Georgia flag (before 1879); the 1920–1956 Georgia flag; the previous state flag (1956–2001); and the current fifty-star U.S. flag.

    In a 2001 survey on state and provincial flags in North America conducted by the North American Vexillological Association, the redesigned Georgia flag was ranked the worst by a wide margin; the group stated that the flag "violates all the principles of good flag design." [8]

    Current flag [edit]

    In 2002, Sonny Perdue was elected Governor of Georgia, partially on a platform of allowing Georgians to choose their own flag in a state referendum. He authorized the Georgia legislature to draft a new flag in 2003.

    The General Assembly's proposed flag combined elements of Georgia's previous flags, creating a composition that was inspired by the Confederate First National flag, the Stars and Bars, rather than the Confederate Battle Flag. Perdue signed the legislation into law on May 8, 2003.[9]

    The 2003 flag legislation also authorized a public referendum on which of the two most recent flags (the 2001 and 2003 versions) would be officially adopted as the flag of the state. The referendum took place during the state's March 2, 2004 presidential primary election. If the 2003 flag was rejected, the pre-2001 design would have been put to a vote.[10] The 2003 design won 73.1% of the vote in the referendum.[11]

    The current flag resembles the first official Confederate flag ("The Stars and Bars"), while also using some elements of the 1879, 1902, 1906, and 1920 state flags.



    Hmmm, wonder what this is about?
    Right after it was repealed as the state flag in 2001, the city of Trenton, Georgia adopted it as the official city flag.[4]
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • I have this flag hanging in my garage.

    smashing-pumpkins-zeitgeist-black-white-official-textile-flag-poster-23071-p.jpg
    Gimli 1993
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  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Drove by a house yesterday. Should have taken a picture. Confederate flag flying out front. The worst part was right next to that flag, literally RIGHT next to that flag was the start of a banner that proudly read

    "Congrats Nichelle 2013"
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Drove by a house yesterday. Should have taken a picture. Confederate flag flying out front. The worst part was right next to that flag, literally RIGHT next to that flag was the start of a banner that proudly read

    "Congrats Nichelle 2013"

    Hmmm... a Lt. Uhura fan? :lol:

    http://www.startrek.com/database_articl ... lsnichelle
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • SnakeduckSnakeduck Posts: 1,056
    Alright Brian, just what do you know about Ed Abbey? I was the original fan around here and will arm-wrestle you for that recognition...

    You read all of Doug Peacock's stuff too?
  • vant0037vant0037 Posts: 6,116
    http://vimeo.com/53745656

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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Snakeduck wrote:
    Alright Brian, just what do you know about Ed Abbey? I was the original fan around here and will arm-wrestle you for that recognition...

    You read all of Doug Peacock's stuff too?

    Peacock? Absolutely! Loved Walking it Off.

    If I ever get around to buying a scanner I'll scan my letter from Mr. Abbey in which he tells me my father "must have been hallucinating".

    How about Ken Sanders? I get a good Abbey story or two out of him about twice a year.

    Arm-wrestle? How about a billboard contest instead? :lol:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • SnakeduckSnakeduck Posts: 1,056
    brianlux wrote:
    Snakeduck wrote:
    Alright Brian, just what do you know about Ed Abbey? I was the original fan around here and will arm-wrestle you for that recognition...

    You read all of Doug Peacock's stuff too?

    Peacock? Absolutely! Loved Walking it Off.

    If I ever get around to buying a scanner I'll scan my letter from Mr. Abbey in which he tells me my father "must have been hallucinating".

    How about Ken Sanders? I get a good Abbey story or two out of him about twice a year.

    Arm-wrestle? How about a billboard contest instead? :lol:

    Yeah, I'm familiar with Ken Sanders. You know the guy? That's very cool.

    Billboard contest would be fun for sure! Grizzly Years by Peacock is even beter than Walking It Off... maybe. They are both great.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Snakeduck wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    Snakeduck wrote:
    Alright Brian, just what do you know about Ed Abbey? I was the original fan around here and will arm-wrestle you for that recognition...

    You read all of Doug Peacock's stuff too?

    Peacock? Absolutely! Loved Walking it Off.

    If I ever get around to buying a scanner I'll scan my letter from Mr. Abbey in which he tells me my father "must have been hallucinating".

    How about Ken Sanders? I get a good Abbey story or two out of him about twice a year.

    Arm-wrestle? How about a billboard contest instead? :lol:

    Yeah, I'm familiar with Ken Sanders. You know the guy? That's very cool.

    Billboard contest would be fun for sure! Grizzly Years by Peacock is even better than Walking It Off... maybe. They are both great.

    Yeah, we meet up at book fairs a couple of times a year. Ken's a great guy- always a pleasure to chat with.

    Being Peacock fan- and I'm really taking advantage here and getting off the thread topic (sorry everyone)- I highly recommend a book called One Square Inch of Silence by Gordon Hempton. The book is about Hempton's efforts to secure one place on the continental U.S. where nothing human-made (including airplanes) can be heard-- thus, "one square inch of silence". In the book, Hempton mentions Peacock several times and tells about meeting with him. For each copy of this book I sell, I send every penny above cost to Gordon's One Square Inch project (no kudos to me- this is totally selfish on my part. I'm very interested in Hempton's work):

    http://onesquareinch.org/
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • 8181 Posts: 58,276
    abelincolnsmilie.gif
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    81 wrote:
    abelincolnsmilie.gif

    Mares eat ivy and does eat ivy and little lambs eat oats? :D
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    81 wrote:
    abelincolnsmilie.gif

    :nono:


    Now u have to drink!
  • 8181 Posts: 58,276
    brianlux wrote:
    81 wrote:
    abelincolnsmilie.gif

    Mares eat ivy and does eat ivy and little lambs eat oats? :D

    and i eat little lambs. circle of life
    81 is now off the air

    Off_Air.jpg
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