Just for amusement value on this topic, an incoherent argument from Ann Coulter against the removal of the confederate flag, on the grounds that the governor is an "immigrant" (although she apparently is not) and that "no greater army ever took the field than the Confederate Army" (although why did they lose, then? The quality of armies tends to be assessed by whether they win or not).
Haley is not an immigrant. She is a first generation Indian-American. Her parents immigrated from India sometime in the 1960s, I believe.
You can debate how good the Confederate Army was though. Some scholars believe that the Confederacy had an advantage as an army in terms of soldiers and leaders, but that poor strategic decisions made by the Confederate government led to the defeat.
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
You won't forget the history by taking the racist flag down off of the state house grounds and putting it into a museum. Wow.
Just for amusement value on this topic, an incoherent argument from Ann Coulter against the removal of the confederate flag, on the grounds that the governor is an "immigrant" (although she apparently is not) and that "no greater army ever took the field than the Confederate Army" (although why did they lose, then? The quality of armies tends to be assessed by whether they win or not).
Haley is not an immigrant. She is a first generation Indian-American. Her parents immigrated from India sometime in the 1960s, I believe.
You can debate how good the Confederate Army was though. Some scholars believe that the Confederacy had an advantage as an army in terms of soldiers and leaders, but that poor strategic decisions made by the Confederate government led to the defeat.
I agree with that and would add that the south did not have enough industry to sustain a war.
Just for amusement value on this topic, an incoherent argument from Ann Coulter against the removal of the confederate flag, on the grounds that the governor is an "immigrant" (although she apparently is not) and that "no greater army ever took the field than the Confederate Army" (although why did they lose, then? The quality of armies tends to be assessed by whether they win or not).
Haley is not an immigrant. She is a first generation Indian-American. Her parents immigrated from India sometime in the 1960s, I believe.
You can debate how good the Confederate Army was though. Some scholars believe that the Confederacy had an advantage as an army in terms of soldiers and leaders, but that poor strategic decisions made by the Confederate government led to the defeat.
I agree with that and would add that the south did not have enough industry to sustain a war.
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.
Brian, think Humans just yearn to be a part of a "Team". Whatever it is. Survival instinct and depending on threat and or benefit the teams will change. Look at Harley riders waving to each other. Fans of football teams. Being proud American. Hell we're all on team Pearl Jam. Just natural. After 9-11 we all banded together as Team America against Team Muslim Evildoer.
Had a friend from New York that moved to Texas and he got tired of how Texans added Big as Texas, Texas sized sale, Texas edition Truck etc etc. I didn't notice as I'd been here for a while. Just part of our nature. Oh and this guy played Ten for me and I was hooked. Thanks Paul Riz.... if your out there.
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.
Brian, think Humans just yearn to be a part of a "Team". Whatever it is. Survival instinct and depending on threat and or benefit the teams will change. Look at Harley riders waving to each other. Fans of football teams. Being proud American. Hell we're all on team Pearl Jam. Just natural. After 9-11 we all banded together as Team America against Team Muslim Evildoer.
Had a friend from New York that moved to Texas and he got tired of how Texans added Big as Texas, Texas sized sale, Texas edition Truck etc etc. I didn't notice as I'd been here for a while. Just part of our nature. Oh and this guy played Ten for me and I was hooked. Thanks Paul Riz.... if your out there.
Ha ha, gotta admit, Callen, I'm kind of proud to be part of Team Pearl Jam. Best fans anywhere. Big as Alaska, LOL!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.
Brian, think Humans just yearn to be a part of a "Team". Whatever it is. Survival instinct and depending on threat and or benefit the teams will change. Look at Harley riders waving to each other. Fans of football teams. Being proud American. Hell we're all on team Pearl Jam. Just natural. After 9-11 we all banded together as Team America against Team Muslim Evildoer.
Had a friend from New York that moved to Texas and he got tired of how Texans added Big as Texas, Texas sized sale, Texas edition Truck etc etc. I didn't notice as I'd been here for a while. Just part of our nature. Oh and this guy played Ten for me and I was hooked. Thanks Paul Riz.... if your out there.
Ha ha, gotta admit, Callen, I'm kind of proud to be part of Team Pearl Jam. Best fans anywhere. Big as Alaska, LOL!
Exactly.
And I would gladly rock next to any of my pro death penalty, confederate flag waving, gun toting, conservative fellow PEARL JAM teammates at the next Pj gig. Whenever that would be.
Damn that was a great example. Patting myself on the back.
What is removing the flag gonna accomplish? If you forget your history you are destined to repeat it. It was a sick mentality that killed those people,not a symbol. I find the flag in poor taste myself,but you can never erase the ugly past America has.
Going to tell all the racist fucks that proudly wave this flag that many Americans object to their views.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
I honestly still don't get the southern pride thing, Callen. I can understand being proud of the accomplishments of an individual or group of people but I don't understand the concept of being proud of where one comes from. I can understand someone liking or even loving the place where they were worn or live but what is there to be proud of? I can kind of sort of understand being proud to be of Amish heritage because my ancestors lived lightly on the land but I would not say I'm proud to be of Lancaster region heritage. It's just a place, a piece of the whole that is the earth. I can't even say I'm proud to be an earthling because it's just one planet in an entire universe. I just don't get the regional pride thing.
Yeah that is a weird thing , hey I'm a proud Northerner yada yada crap ... Just be proud of your own human accomplishments ...
Please tell us exactly what it is Southerners are so fucking proud of about being Southern that's not found elsewhere, and maybe we will. Maybe not, but maybe.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Okay, well getting rid of it when it's specifically presented in the context of the civil war is really stupid.
It wasn't really prominent during the Civil War. It was basically flown off of a few naval vessels. After the war a few small Confederate veterans groups used it, then the KKK adopted it as their symbol. It was not prominently displayed in the south until the civil rights movement when the region adopted it.
Okay, well getting rid of it when it's specifically presented in the context of the civil war is really stupid.
It wasn't really prominent during the Civil War. It was basically flown off of a few naval vessels. After the war a few small Confederate veterans groups used it, then the KKK adopted it as their symbol. It was not prominently displayed in the south until the civil rights movement when the region adopted it.
If it's a battle flag from the civil war then there is no problem with it being in civil war battle video games IMO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Easy now that was my home state for many years. Those colors I believe are for two prominent BRITISH families the Calverts and the Crosslands. Something like that and nothing?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yup. It is messed up. Anyone with half an education and 10 minutes of google time should be able to understand that this flag's popularity rose with the South's opposition to the civil rights movement. It is symbolic, not of honor in battle, but of racism and hate. Anyone flying this flag is going to (perhaps rightly) be perceived a racist. Southern Pride is a stupid excuse. Create a new flag to show your southern pride (whatever that is).
Similarly, I really like the Gadsden Flag. I appreciate the "Don't Tread On Me" sentiments. But unfortunately that flag was co-opted by the Tea Party years ago, and I won't touch it now. I can appreciate it's historical significance, but don't want to be associated with the idiots who fly it today.
The confederate flag is no different. It may have some historical significance to Northern Virginia's participation in the Civil War, but anyone flying it now is automatically lumped in with the modern symbolism of the flag - ignorant, white, and racist.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Offensive It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!
Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
Offensive It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!
Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
Cant forget the natives continuing treatment either
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Offensive It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!
Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
Cant forget the natives continuing treatment either
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,858
Offensive It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!
Yeah, it really is! I generally feel like most Americans downplay that HUGE part of their history (the slavery part and everything it entails), and it really bugs me.
Cant forget the natives continuing treatment either
No you can't, and everyone underplays that whole thing as well, which also bugs me. But the whole American slave thing REEAAAALLLYYYY gets me. I mean, the kidnapping and transport of them under conditions more horrific that we can know, torture, starvation, humiliation, millions and millions dead, all for the love of money and leisure and assumed superiority, and all under the guidance of Christianity, and this went on for a couple of centuries, and then that was followed by another 150 years of abuse and murder and injustice. It's so disgusting it makes me sick. Yet so many Americans seem to think they naturally own the moral highground compared to other nations and act as though they have this amazing history that they are proud of, particularly people in the South, where these crimes against humanity happened, and they and even certain STATE GOVERNMENTS fight to keep a flag that symbolically shoves all that history right into the faces of the ancestors of those slaves. It's absolutely appalling.
to be fair on that score though, we need to get ALL PLAYERS in that business under the spotlight. Ask the Queen what she thinks about her nations history there in north america.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I generally have a pretty dim view of anyone sporting a confederate flag, but I don't think the flag is the cause of the shooting that took place in Charleston.
I think people are rallying against the flag because it makes them feel like they are doing something in response.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I generally have a pretty dim view of anyone sporting a confederate flag, but I don't think the flag is the cause of the shooting that took place in Charleston.
I think people are rallying against the flag because it makes them feel like they are doing something in response.
I agree with this. The flag has no business being flown at, near or above a government building, and it should have been removed from such places years ago. In fact it should have never been flown in the first place. It is a symbol of racism but it is only that, a symbol. Maybe removing it is a place to start and for that reason I am for it, but it is not going to bring those people back or change the minds of anyone willing to commit such acts. It does feel, as you say, like an easy response so that people can feel like they are doing something.
Comments
You can debate how good the Confederate Army was though. Some scholars believe that the Confederacy had an advantage as an army in terms of soldiers and leaders, but that poor strategic decisions made by the Confederate government led to the defeat.
understand southern pride and it's just like liking a football team, typical human herd behavior. Problem many in this team suck and need to be called out.
It is part of our history and sad that it's been used as it has.
Had a friend from New York that moved to Texas and he got tired of how Texans added Big as Texas, Texas sized sale, Texas edition Truck etc etc. I didn't notice as I'd been here for a while. Just part of our nature. Oh and this guy played Ten for me and I was hooked. Thanks Paul Riz.... if your out there.
And I would gladly rock next to any of my pro death penalty, confederate flag waving, gun toting, conservative fellow PEARL JAM teammates at the next Pj gig. Whenever that would be.
Damn that was a great example. Patting myself on the back.
Heads on spikes! Heads on spikes! Heads on spikes!
(heads are put on spikes. one week later the heads are forgotten)
Just be proud of your own human accomplishments ...
It means someone is nostalgic for the days when some people were slaves. Fuck that. That's messed up!!!!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Similarly, I really like the Gadsden Flag. I appreciate the "Don't Tread On Me" sentiments. But unfortunately that flag was co-opted by the Tea Party years ago, and I won't touch it now. I can appreciate it's historical significance, but don't want to be associated with the idiots who fly it today.
The confederate flag is no different. It may have some historical significance to Northern Virginia's participation in the Civil War, but anyone flying it now is automatically lumped in with the modern symbolism of the flag - ignorant, white, and racist.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think people are rallying against the flag because it makes them feel like they are doing something in response.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."