the death penalty

haffajappa

KO282453 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i dont know how a human can wish death upon another regardless of what theyve done.

You've never been cut off in traffic? that boil's my blood. My wife won't let me get a gun, she's worried i would lose it someday and go postal...she's probably not wrong. My wife's like you, but you have to remember, there's people like me out there too.

omg was this you? http://wbztv.com/local/road.rage.quincy.2.1372772.html

ed243421

scb wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

i understand every case is different
if we have 100% dna fact
or the person admits to it
or indisputable evidence
death

I don't believe there really is such a thing as 100% DNA fact. I mean, sometimes we can think we have 100% DNA fact when we don't. Also, sometimes people admit to crimes they didn't commit. And I think most "indisputable" evidence can be disputed somehow. That's not to say we can never know for sure that someone committed a crime, but I just think it's extremely rare and, worse, we too often believe that innocent people are guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Then, even if we did know for sure that someone killed someone else, there are a multitude of mitigating circumstances to consider.

Do you have children? If so, try to put yourself in the place of a parent whose child has been convicted of murder. (And maybe he didn't even do it, or maybe there were mitigating circumstances. Regardless, you child is not pure evil.) How would you feel if your child was being executed? You've said everyone should put themselves in the position of the innocent families whose loved ones were murdered, but what about the innocent families whose loved ones will be executed?

Also, I thought of two more questions: 1. Does it matter if the person is unlikely to ever kill again? 2. What about someone who kills someone while driving piss-ass drunk? Do they deserve the death penalty?

all i want are the red-handed, caught at the scene of the crime, confessing, their blood on the victim, video, anything that is a lock.

i have children
i am doing everything i can now to attempt to prevent anything like that
once they are an adult, they are their own person, responsible for their own actions, just like you and i were.
and they will understand this

2 answers
no
this one depends on the drivers record or the circumstances , but some should

catefrances

KO282453 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i dont know how a human can wish death upon another regardless of what theyve done.

You've never been cut off in traffic? that boil's my blood. My wife won't let me get a gun, she's worried i would lose it someday and go postal...she's probably not wrong. My wife's like you, but you have to remember, there's people like me out there too.

sure ive been cut off in traffic.. but i usually just swear a blue streak and turn up the music. then when im with people i bitch about how some fucking knobhead nearly wiped me out.

oh i doubt your wife is like me... unless of course she has the ability to turn into mrs hyde.

BinauralJam

Don't all women Just Kidding.

catefrances

KO282453 wrote:

Don't all women Just Kidding.

yeah... you just keep right on smiling mister.

_

ed243421 wrote:

scb wrote:

ed243421 wrote:

i understand every case is different
if we have 100% dna fact
or the person admits to it
or indisputable evidence
death

I don't believe there really is such a thing as 100% DNA fact. I mean, sometimes we can think we have 100% DNA fact when we don't. Also, sometimes people admit to crimes they didn't commit. And I think most "indisputable" evidence can be disputed somehow. That's not to say we can never know for sure that someone committed a crime, but I just think it's extremely rare and, worse, we too often believe that innocent people are guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Then, even if we did know for sure that someone killed someone else, there are a multitude of mitigating circumstances to consider.

Do you have children? If so, try to put yourself in the place of a parent whose child has been convicted of murder. (And maybe he didn't even do it, or maybe there were mitigating circumstances. Regardless, you child is not pure evil.) How would you feel if your child was being executed? You've said everyone should put themselves in the position of the innocent families whose loved ones were murdered, but what about the innocent families whose loved ones will be executed?

Also, I thought of two more questions: 1. Does it matter if the person is unlikely to ever kill again? 2. What about someone who kills someone while driving piss-ass drunk? Do they deserve the death penalty?

all i want are the red-handed, caught at the scene of the crime, confessing, their blood on the victim, video, anything that is a lock.

i have children
i am doing everything i can now to attempt to prevent anything like that
once they are an adult, they are their own person, responsible for their own actions, just like you and i were.
and they will understand this

2 answers
no
this one depends on the drivers record or the circumstances , but some should

Do you believe that it's possible for people to believe that someone is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and for them to still be innocent? I'm not asking if it's likely - just if it's EVER possible - even once, in a billion years.

How old are your children? (Now I'm just being nosey. :oops: ) You didn't answer my question though. How would you feel? How would this impact your family? (It's a silly question, I know, unless you've actually been there. But let's just try to imagine.)

If it doesn't matter if a person is likely to ever kill again, then wouldn't execution just be for revenge? It wouldn't be for the future safety of others. And with what record and under what circumstances should a drunk driver be sentenced to death?

Eliot Rosewater

The way I see it, guilt has little if anything to do with where I stand on the death penalty. I mean, the fact that innocent people have been executed is shamefully disgusting. But even if some crazy lunatic hijacked the BBC or CNN or whatever, killed people on live TV, confessed, and DNA evidence also proved he was guilty....I don't think it is morally right to kill him in return.

catefrances

the way i see it is not does someone have the right to live but do we have the right to take their life. and even as a godless heathen i can tell you that i think not.

_

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

The way I see it, guilt has little if anything to do with where I stand on the death penalty. I mean, the fact that innocent people have been executed is shamefully disgusting. But even if some crazy lunatic hijacked the BBC or CNN or whatever, killed people on live TV, confessed, and DNA evidence also proved he was guilty....I don't think it is morally right to kill him in return.

+1

catefrances wrote:

the way i see it is not does someone have the right to live but do we have the right to take their life. and even as a godless heathen i can tell you that i think not.

+1

ed243421

]

Do you believe that it's possible for people to believe that someone is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and for them to still be innocent? I'm not asking if it's likely - just if it's EVER possible - even once, in a billion years.

How old are your children? (Now I'm just being nosey. :oops: ) You didn't answer my question though. How would you feel? How would this impact your family? (It's a silly question, I know, unless you've actually been there. But let's just try to imagine.)

If it doesn't matter if a person is likely to ever kill again, then wouldn't execution just be for revenge? It wouldn't be for the future safety of others. And with what record and under what circumstances should a drunk driver be sentenced to death?[/quote]


scb
of course some could be innocent, but we think like that because of our past. we had a death penalty without the lab testing we have now. without video, without cell phone gps, without today's ever growing technology.
we do have cases that are "easy"
these are the ones i want gone

my kids are 7 - 5 - 3
and i think i did answer in a previous post, tell me if i'm wrong

"likely to kill again"? you could only be talking about manslaughter, i hope.
and i want every execution to be about revenge
and prevention
all we have in this life is our life
if someone takes that from me, or you, or a total stranger, i want that life revenged
i want theirs taken from them
i truly believe in a world where murder is answered with murder
we would stop killing each other
and if we don't
then our prisons will not be full of monsters living out the rest of their days
like the people they murdered had planned on doing

and for drunk drivers
if they had EVER been convicted of it in the past, and they do it again and kill someone
death
if not, 15-20 years could do it

ed243421

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

The way I see it, guilt has little if anything to do with where I stand on the death penalty. I mean, the fact that innocent people have been executed is shamefully disgusting. But even if some crazy lunatic hijacked the BBC or CNN or whatever, killed people on live TV, confessed, and DNA evidence also proved he was guilty....I don't think it is morally right to kill him in return.

and whether your entire family are some of the killed or not, what would be morally right to do?

runaway

blackredyellow wrote:

Once again, I think that death penalty is the easy way out for these sick fucks...

Put him him a tiny cell with pictures of the crime scene on the walls of his children he killed... see if that drives him insane. Only let him out to get gang raped and beat by other prisoners.

I agree....he should have to sit and think about his crime and become someone's bitch while in there!!!

Eliot Rosewater

ed243421 wrote:

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

The way I see it, guilt has little if anything to do with where I stand on the death penalty. I mean, the fact that innocent people have been executed is shamefully disgusting. But even if some crazy lunatic hijacked the BBC or CNN or whatever, killed people on live TV, confessed, and DNA evidence also proved he was guilty....I don't think it is morally right to kill him in return.

and whether your entire family are some of the killed or not, what would be morally right to do?

I believe morals must run deeper than that. Would I be angry if people close to me were killed? Of course. Would I FEEL like killing those responsible? Probably. But I would hope that my moral beliefs would prevail. And I believe that they would.

But let's assume I lost it and killed those responsible for revenge. I know within myself that I would have done the wrong thing. I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I believe I do know the difference between right and wrong. Killing another human being under any circumstance is wrong.

chadwick

anyway...
like i said a few pages back, who's voting for rehabilitation for the serial killer torture expert who's skinning women alive to fashion purses out of their breasts???
after he is rehabilitated and released back in society maybe he can move next door to you.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

killing is wrong. state-sanctioned or not, killing is killing, which no one has a right to do. the argument "well you'd feel differently if it was YOUR family that was murdered" is exactly why laws are made, to protect its citizens from others AND themselves.

The death penalty has shown:

1) it is NOT a deterrent against commiting any type of crimes
2) it IS more expensive than housing a criminal for their natural life
3) in many cases even the families of the victims of the accused don't agree with it

So really, what are we doing it for?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

and if we are killing the person because they decided a person's right to life in society, how does it make ANY sense for society to decide this person's right to life?

Jason P

Instead of the death penalty in America, we should instead deport the worst offenders to live in the general population in prisons in Peru (the new Joran Van der Sloot wing) and other South American areas that are notorious for their prison systems.

BinauralJam

chadwick wrote:

anyway...
like i said a few pages back, who's voting for rehabilitation for the serial killer torture expert who's skinning women alive to fashion purses out of their breasts???
after he is rehabilitated and released back in society maybe he can move next door to you.

i used to live up in Hyde Park N.Y., right outside of Poughkeepsie. There's a huge Mental Instituion, my last year there they let go a former teacher who kidnapped one of his students, chopped off his you know what cooked it and made the kid eat it before killing him. 30 years later, they said he was Rehabilated. The kid's family still lived in the area. i told my wife, let me run into this guy, i'm killin the M.F.er. some animals need to be put down. just because they look human doesn't mean they are.

ed243421

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

killing is wrong. state-sanctioned or not, killing is killing, which no one has a right to do. the argument "well you'd feel differently if it was YOUR family that was murdered" is exactly why laws are made, to protect its citizens from others AND themselves.

The death penalty has shown:

1) it is NOT a deterrent against commiting any type of crimes
2) it IS more expensive than housing a criminal for their natural life
3) in many cases even the families of the victims of the accused don't agree with it

So really, what are we doing it for?

1) it is a deterrent for THAT person commiting any type of crimes
2) IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE - don't believe everything you read
3) bell curve

Hugh Freaking Dillon

ed243421 wrote:

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

killing is wrong. state-sanctioned or not, killing is killing, which no one has a right to do. the argument "well you'd feel differently if it was YOUR family that was murdered" is exactly why laws are made, to protect its citizens from others AND themselves.

The death penalty has shown:

1) it is NOT a deterrent against commiting any type of crimes
2) it IS more expensive than housing a criminal for their natural life
3) in many cases even the families of the victims of the accused don't agree with it

So really, what are we doing it for?

1) it is a deterrent for THAT person commiting any type of crimes
2) IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE - don't believe everything you read
3) bell curve

1) actually, if you look at the statistics, it has proven not to be a deterrent.
2) it currently is. but to me, even if the cost was substantially higher to house the criminal for life as opposed to putting them to death, it wouldn't matter. the cost of a dollar is nothing compared to the cost of a life, whether it is deemed an innocent or "worthless" life.
3) what does that have to do with it?