the death penalty

Godfather.

haffajappa wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

....also when a person kills another do you think that person knows the penalty for murder is death ? I would guess 99.9% of the people that kill know the penalty and kill anyway sooooo whats the problem ?

Godfather.

the problem is they're not cheeseburgers.

it would seem they are as smart as cheese burgers in most cases.

Godfather.

Godfather.

scb I was not trying to bait you on this one,but since you asked...
for a few years before hitler gained total power he was laying the ground work for his power play through
good deeds for the German people who were suffering a very low economy all the while gaining support from the German people and along the way making moves for political power within the interworkings of the German Government and while he was doing this for a few years he would flood Germany with propaganda blaming the Jewish people for the hard times Germany had been going through so by the time he had reached his goal of total power he had the German people behind him 100% and those that questioned him where never heard from again,so really the german people where as much to blame for the mass murder of the Jews as hitler to a point,
hitler was no dummy as he saw a week nation and had the vision to take control and turn it into his own sick and twisted dream of a pure race of people..the "arian nation" and thought he could do this globally....WRONG !!!
and you know the rest.

Godfather.

BinauralJam

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

KO282453 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i dont know how a human can wish death upon another regardless of what theyve done.

You've never been cut off in traffic? that boil's my blood. My wife won't let me get a gun, she's worried i would lose it someday and go postal...she's probably not wrong. My wife's like you, but you have to remember, there's people like me out there too.

Thank god you have someone like your wife to help keep you under control...

God seems to know what's he's doing

So.. you would kill someone, someone who probably didn't even see you because you were in their blind spot..
Not the same thing as someone putting my wife and i 's life in danger so you can mve up a car length when there's clearly traffic ahead. Why be an ASS? and if you decide to be an ass, know there people like me who would LOVE to kill you.

Eliot Rosewater

KO282453 wrote:

So.. you would kill someone, someone who probably didn't even see you because you were in their blind spot..

Whoa...slow down, cowboy. I said nothing of the sort.

KO282453 wrote:

Not the same thing as someone putting my wife and i 's life in danger so you can mve up a car length when there's clearly traffic ahead. Why be an ASS? and if you decide to be an ass, know there people like me who would LOVE to kill you.

You may or may not be criminally insane. But I bet you can guess which way I'm leaning...

_

chadwick wrote:

oh by the way, some dudes in prison eat their own pooh.

:shock:

_

KO282453 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i dont know how a human can wish death upon another regardless of what theyve done.

You've never been cut off in traffic? that boil's my blood. My wife won't let me get a gun, she's worried i would lose it someday and go postal...she's probably not wrong. My wife's like you, but you have to remember, there's people like me out there too.

So if you exercised your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, you got cut off in traffic one day, your blood boiled, and you lost it and shot and killed the guy who cut you off, should you be executed?

Everyone - Should he be executed?

Also, for those of you who believe that it is sometimes morally acceptable to kill a person against his/her will, under precisely what circumstances is this acceptable?

BinauralJam

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

KO282453 wrote:

So.. you would kill someone, someone who probably didn't even see you because you were in their blind spot..

Whoa...slow down, cowboy. I said nothing of the sort.

KO282453 wrote:

Not the same thing as someone putting my wife and i 's life in danger so you can mve up a car length when there's clearly traffic ahead. Why be an ASS? and if you decide to be an ass, know there people like me who would LOVE to kill you.

You may or may not be criminally insane. But I bet you can guess which way I'm leaning...

ya and i guess your right, but it's hard to feel like the bad guy when my driving is'nt putting anybody esle's life in danger.

just to clear up,i didn't write the blindside comment, i was responding to it. it was in a back post.

_

Godfather. wrote:

scb I was not trying to bait you on this one,but since you asked...
for a few years before hitler gained total power he was laying the ground work for his power play through
good deeds for the German people who were suffering a very low economy all the while gaining support from the German people and along the way making moves for political power within the interworkings of the German Government and while he was doing this for a few years he would flood Germany with propaganda blaming the Jewish people for the hard times Germany had been going through so by the time he had reached his goal of total power he had the German people behind him 100% and those that questioned him where never heard from again,so really the german people where as much to blame for the mass murder of the Jews as hitler to a point,
hitler was no dummy as he saw a week nation and had the vision to take control and turn it into his own sick and twisted dream of a pure race of people..the "arian nation" and thought he could do this globally....WRONG !!!
and you know the rest.

Godfather.

My point was that he could never have convinced an entire society that a group of people deserved to be put to death if that society didn't believe that it was okay to kill "deserving" people. Once a society believes that killing others against their will is okay in some circumstances, the only thin line between the death penalty and genocide is redefining who falls under those circumstances (which, as Hitler has shown us, is not always too difficult to do).

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

catefrances wrote:

i dont know how a human can wish death upon another regardless of what theyve done.

i do

ed243421

scb wrote:

KO282453 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

i dont know how a human can wish death upon another regardless of what theyve done.

You've never been cut off in traffic? that boil's my blood. My wife won't let me get a gun, she's worried i would lose it someday and go postal...she's probably not wrong. My wife's like you, but you have to remember, there's people like me out there too.

So if you exercised your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, you got cut off in traffic one day, your blood boiled, and you lost it and shot and killed the guy who cut you off, should you be executed?

Everyone - Should he be executed?

Also, for those of you who believe that it is sometimes morally acceptable to kill a person against his/her will, under precisely what circumstances is this acceptable?

should he be executed?
yes
cold-blooded murderer

for your last question, are you talking death penalty or murder?

BinauralJam

So if you exercised your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, you got cut off in traffic one day, your blood boiled, and you lost it and shot and killed the guy who cut you off, should you be executed?

Everyone - Should he be executed?

Also, for those of you who believe that it is sometimes morally acceptable to kill a person against his/her will, under precisely what circumstances is this acceptable?[/quote]


Well maybe just 20 years, REMEMBER i did just make the world a safer place!!!, next time YOU get in a car this is one less moron on the road you have to worry about. Your Welcome.

BinauralJam

I've never hurt anybody and doubt i could, but violence is the first thing the pops into my head when i get mad, i just imagine there's lots of people who act on those thoughts unlike me, i fact i'm sure of it, i watch the news. but i don't condemn every person who does outright, i think there's times when it is justifiable.
we cold talk about being human until were blue in the face, in the end were all animals, instinct is a powerful thing.

_

ed243421 wrote:

scb wrote:

KO282453 wrote:

You've never been cut off in traffic? that boil's my blood. My wife won't let me get a gun, she's worried i would lose it someday and go postal...she's probably not wrong. My wife's like you, but you have to remember, there's people like me out there too.

So if you exercised your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, you got cut off in traffic one day, your blood boiled, and you lost it and shot and killed the guy who cut you off, should you be executed?

Everyone - Should he be executed?

Also, for those of you who believe that it is sometimes morally acceptable to kill a person against his/her will, under precisely what circumstances is this acceptable?

should he be executed?
yes
cold-blooded murderer

for your last question, are you talking death penalty or murder?

I'm just thinking of any possible reason to kill someone against their will. Like, under precisely what circumstances should the death penalty be enacted? But also, for instance, what about other times when killing is viewed by some as acceptable? E.g. vigilante justice, killing someone in the commission of a crime or when one fears for his/her life, war, etc.

If someone kills my family member and gets off, is it morally acceptable for me to kill him? What if he killed my cat? What if he raped my loved one but didn't kill anyone? What if it was a date rape and she didn't say no because she was drunk? If I'm married to an abusive husband, is it morally acceptable for me to kill him while he sleeps? What if he only hit me once? What if it's in the middle of a fight but he doesn't have a weapon? What if he slapped me once but didn't punch me? Is it morally acceptable for us to kill soldiers during war? What about civilians? What if the civilians weren't our target but we could predict that they'd be "collateral damage"? What if they're children? What if the soldiers are children? What if it's a soldier who is not threatening and has never (that we know of) killed anyone? What if it's a soldier who has tortured prisoners of war? What if they only did it because it was part of their job? Is it morally acceptable to want someone's child to be put to death for committing a crime, like shooting someone in an incident of road rage? What if it's our friend's child? Our sister's child? Our child? If we would want someone else's child to be put to death, should we not just as strongly support our own child being put to death? Is it morally acceptable to shoot someone who is in the process of committing a crime? Is it more or less acceptable depending on whether or not you represent the state (i.e. if you're a cop vs. just a regular person)? Does it matter what the crime is? What if the crime is in progress? What if it's no longer in progress but the criminal is running or resisting arrest? What if you're a law enforcement officer, the crime is still in progress, and you fear for your life? What if you're a border patrol agent, someone has just crossed the border and is trying to cross again, and he was just assaulting you with rocks and now you think you see a gun?

_

I'm just curious where EXACTLY the line is drawn between morally acceptable and immoral, how we came to draw the line there, and why one side of a thin line is acceptable and the other is not.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

scb wrote:

I'm just curious where EXACTLY the line is drawn between morally acceptable and immoral, how we came to draw the line there, and why one side of a thin line is acceptable and the other is not.

why is anything acceptable? i have no problem drawing a line somewhere. we all do on every issue.

BinauralJam

scb wrote:

I'm just curious where EXACTLY the line is drawn between morally acceptable and immoral, how we came to draw the line there, and why one side of a thin line is acceptable and the other is not.

Sadly i think the only people who could truely answer this are people who have killed people, on both sides, we'd have to ask cops and criminals.

ed243421

[
I'm just thinking of any possible reason to kill someone against their will. Like, under precisely what circumstances should the death penalty be enacted? But also, for instance, what about other times when killing is viewed by some as acceptable? E.g. vigilante justice, killing someone in the commission of a crime or when one fears for his/her life, war, etc.

If someone kills my family member and gets off, is it morally acceptable for me to kill him? What if he killed my cat? What if he raped my loved one but didn't kill anyone? What if it was a date rape and she didn't say no because she was drunk? If I'm married to an abusive husband, is it morally acceptable for me to kill him while he sleeps? What if he only hit me once? What if it's in the middle of a fight but he doesn't have a weapon? What if he slapped me once but didn't punch me? Is it morally acceptable for us to kill soldiers during war? What about civilians? What if the civilians weren't our target but we could predict that they'd be "collateral damage"? What if they're children? What if the soldiers are children? What if it's a soldier who is not threatening and has never (that we know of) killed anyone? What if it's a soldier who has tortured prisoners of war? What if they only did it because it was part of their job? Is it morally acceptable to want someone's child to be put to death for committing a crime, like shooting someone in an incident of road rage? What if it's our friend's child? Our sister's child? Our child? If we would want someone else's child to be put to death, should we not just as strongly support our own child being put to death? Is it morally acceptable to shoot someone who is in the process of committing a crime? Is it more or less acceptable depending on whether or not you represent the state (i.e. if you're a cop vs. just a regular person)? Does it matter what the crime is? What if the crime is in progress? What if it's no longer in progress but the criminal is running or resisting arrest? What if you're a law enforcement officer, the crime is still in progress, and you fear for your life? What if you're a border patrol agent, someone has just crossed the border and is trying to cross again, and he was just assaulting you with rocks and now you think you see a gun?[/quote]

my answers to your paragraph of questions

morally acceptable, yes, but with a death penalty, you would not have to.
no
no
no
depends on what extent of abuse
no
no
no
i you believe like i do that every war in world history has been fought for money, than no
no
no
no
no
no
no
no
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
yes
depends on the crime- i.e.(murder)
no
yes
yes
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
no




i understand every case is different
if we have 100% dna fact
or the person admits to it
or indisputable evidence
death

_

KO282453 wrote:

scb wrote:

I'm just curious where EXACTLY the line is drawn between morally acceptable and immoral, how we came to draw the line there, and why one side of a thin line is acceptable and the other is not.

Sadly i think the only people who could truely answer this are people who have killed people, on both sides, we'd have to ask cops and criminals.

And yet it's mostly people who have never killed anyone who are making these decisions.

_

ed243421 wrote:

scb wrote:

I'm just thinking of any possible reason to kill someone against their will. Like, under precisely what circumstances should the death penalty be enacted? But also, for instance, what about other times when killing is viewed by some as acceptable? E.g. vigilante justice, killing someone in the commission of a crime or when one fears for his/her life, war, etc.

If someone kills my family member and gets off, is it morally acceptable for me to kill him? What if he killed my cat? What if he raped my loved one but didn't kill anyone? What if it was a date rape and she didn't say no because she was drunk? If I'm married to an abusive husband, is it morally acceptable for me to kill him while he sleeps? What if he only hit me once? What if it's in the middle of a fight but he doesn't have a weapon? What if he slapped me once but didn't punch me? Is it morally acceptable for us to kill soldiers during war? What about civilians? What if the civilians weren't our target but we could predict that they'd be "collateral damage"? What if they're children? What if the soldiers are children? What if it's a soldier who is not threatening and has never (that we know of) killed anyone? What if it's a soldier who has tortured prisoners of war? What if they only did it because it was part of their job? Is it morally acceptable to want someone's child to be put to death for committing a crime, like shooting someone in an incident of road rage? What if it's our friend's child? Our sister's child? Our child? If we would want someone else's child to be put to death, should we not just as strongly support our own child being put to death? Is it morally acceptable to shoot someone who is in the process of committing a crime? Is it more or less acceptable depending on whether or not you represent the state (i.e. if you're a cop vs. just a regular person)? Does it matter what the crime is? What if the crime is in progress? What if it's no longer in progress but the criminal is running or resisting arrest? What if you're a law enforcement officer, the crime is still in progress, and you fear for your life? What if you're a border patrol agent, someone has just crossed the border and is trying to cross again, and he was just assaulting you with rocks and now you think you see a gun?

my answers to your paragraph of questions

morally acceptable, yes, but with a death penalty, you would not have to.
no
no
no
depends on what extent of abuse
no
no
no
i you believe like i do that every war in world history has been fought for money, than no
no
no
no
no
no
no
no
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
yes
depends on the crime- i.e.(murder)
no
yes
yes
if it was murder, yes
if it was murder, yes
no




i understand every case is different
if we have 100% dna fact
or the person admits to it
or indisputable evidence
death

Haha... thanks. I'll have to go back and put that one together.

_

ed243421 wrote:

i understand every case is different
if we have 100% dna fact
or the person admits to it
or indisputable evidence
death

I don't believe there really is such a thing as 100% DNA fact. I mean, sometimes we can think we have 100% DNA fact when we don't. Also, sometimes people admit to crimes they didn't commit. And I think most "indisputable" evidence can be disputed somehow. That's not to say we can never know for sure that someone committed a crime, but I just think it's extremely rare and, worse, we too often believe that innocent people are guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Then, even if we did know for sure that someone killed someone else, there are a multitude of mitigating circumstances to consider.

Do you have children? If so, try to put yourself in the place of a parent whose child has been convicted of murder. (And maybe he didn't even do it, or maybe there were mitigating circumstances. Regardless, you child is not pure evil.) How would you feel if your child was being executed? You've said everyone should put themselves in the position of the innocent families whose loved ones were murdered, but what about the innocent families whose loved ones will be executed?

Also, I thought of two more questions: 1. Does it matter if the person is unlikely to ever kill again? 2. What about someone who kills someone while driving piss-ass drunk? Do they deserve the death penalty?